Hi All - I know this is very long but I'm brain tired and tryed best as
I could to write what I've been going thru with Mom and this hospital.
Mom was sent home from the hospital Tuesday night. I don't know if any
of you know how Medicare has certain rules about how long you can stay
in the hospital. Apparently, the hospital decided Mom didn't meet
Medicare guidelines last Friday and started working on getting the
doctor to agree to dismiss her. He told them he wanted new labs and
would dismiss her on Saturday. Well, on Saturday when he came in, Mom
was very swollen from the tips of her fingers, up her arms, neck and
face. The kidney specialist order more labs on her blood and urine. By
Monday, the swelling in her arms hadn't subsided and he ordered a
Doppler on her arms thinking blood clot. In addition on Monday am, I
ask for a second consult from a seizure specialist to adjust Mom's
seizure med as she was still sleeping all the time. Even ate with her
eyes closed. The family dr, 2nd neuro and kidney specialist all wrote
in Mom's chart that she was medically unstable and should not be
discharged. I talked the family dr and was told if things continued to
improve he would discharge her on Thursday. That was at 3:30 Tues
afternoon. At 4:25 I get a call from the social worker stating that
Mom was being sent back to the nursing home, that the family doc and
all others had signed off. A message was left on my machine telling me
this. When I phoned back, a short 5 minutes later, of course, the
social worker had gone for the day. The nurses station refused to page
her telling me that she always leaves at 4:30. Now a little
background.....
On Monday, I was called by a case manager for the hospital who informed
me that since Mom's dr and I refused to agree to discharge her, they
were sending her medical records to be reviewed by a state Medicare
Quality Assurance person. Basically, they would copy and send Mom's
file to them and after Quality Assurance interviewed me, a physician
would review her records and determine if Mom met Medicare guidelines
to stay in the hospital. If not and the doctor still wanted Mom to
stay there, she would still be able to stay but without Medicare
paying, we would have to pay the bill for anytime after that ourselves.
I had never heard of this before and as you can imagine I was totally
caught off guard. The case manager told me that Medicare would call me
tomorrow. I had to have a witness on the phone that she read me some
jargon and it sounded like they were getting the dr in trouble!
On Tuesday, from 4:30-5:00 I was interviewed by the Quality Assurance
person in the independent program. (It was just prior to this time that
the social worker left me the "we are discharging your Mom at 6:30
message) I explained what had been going on with Mom and why I thought
Mom should have stayed in the hospital. I emphasized that it was the
DOCTOR'S decision that I supported but understood fully why he felt
that way. When Mom entered the hospital she was in acute renal failure.
With the type of swelling she had on Saturday, it was right for the
kidney specialist to rule out kidney failure. With the only guideline I
had been given being, "nothing we are doing for your Mom can't be done
in a skilled nursing facility" I told the Quality Assurance person that
the labs ordered by the kidney specialist could be done on a timely
basis in the hospital to rule out kidney failure while it would take 48
hours in the nursing home. I further pointed out that the swelling
hadn't been resolved yet and that since her diuretics and heart meds
were on hold waiting for her kidney function tests to lower, it would
seem prudent to get her back on track while in the hospital in case of
bad reactions. The Quality Assurance person told me that Mom could
stay in the hospital until 12 noon the next day by which time we would
have an answer on who they agreed with -- the doctor or the hospital.
Did I want a call back with the answer? Well, no, discharge was in the
works. The doctor had caved and I said no, feeling it was emminent
anyway. Why not just go with the flow at this point.
Today I received an FED X letter from the Quality Assurance board.
Anyone want to guess what they said????? Come on....guess........
THEY AGREED WITH THE DOCTOR! In fact, the physician stated that Mom
was medically unstable and should remain in the hospital! Too late for
that! ARGGGGGGGG!
Now a little more of the story. When I got copies of Mom's hospital
records from the nursing home, I find out that the social worker had
been working on Mom's discharge with the case management person since
11:15 in the morning. They know how this review process works and I
didn't. She knew if she called me at 4:30 I would have no way of
fighting it since the social worker and case manager were both gone.
It's also more difficult to get ahold of a doctor that time of day. I
could have had Mom in the hospital until I was given the review
decision which was today. But then they really really needed beds for
er patients.
When they started on Friday afternoon, I felt as if they were just
trying to get a bed freed up for the weekend. I told quality assurance
basically the same thing and ya know what they said? That's not the
only hospital that does that! And when Mom was still there on Monday,
its seems as if they were going to prove a point and get the doctor to
discharge her thru threats of reporting him to Medicare Quality
Assurance which ultimately worked.
There were several other things the nurse on the floor did this week as
well. The neuro wrote orders for Mom to be transferred to the neuro
floor in the hospital next door for a 24 hour eeg monitor. The nurse
told the social worker that the neuro wrote for Mom to be discharged to
Lucerne TTC instead of EEG. TTC or Transition Care Center is a high
lever rehab center. She had the social worker from TTC come over and
evaluate Mom who is basically unconscious. Of course, they refused her
and said send her back to the SNF she came from. So this nurse then
calls the neuro and tells her Lucerne refused to accept her because
they don't have a private bed and she has to be on isolation because of
the 3 different types of UTI bugs she picked up while she was there. So
Mom didn't get her 24 hour EEG. She also called the neuro who had
signed off last week and told him that Mom was swelling. Of course, he
said take her off the anti-seizure drug while the new neuro we had
brought in on the consult had kept Mom on the drug with a different
dosing schedule. I ask the nurse why she called him for swelling when
swelling isn't a side effect of the drug. She claims to have looked it
up on the internet and it said to call the dr immediately if there was
swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives so that what she was
going on and since neuro #1 prescribed it, she called him. Well I'm
still now sure how it was decided which neuro to listen to but Mom was
put back on Keppra and is sleeping all the time. I really think she
should be on something else. Too much for her.
Ok - So now I'm falling asleep but wanted to tell you what's been going
on the past few days. Been at the SNF 2-4 hours at a stretch so I can
be there when she wakes up.
I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....
Walt Hanks - 04 Feb 2005 13:41 GMT
Diane, after you get some sleep, get mad and get going. Here's what I would
do. First, I would call the medical director at the hospital and tell
him/her that you want an immediate case conference. Tell him/her exactly
what you told us and tell him/her that it's either a case conference today
or your attorney on Monday.
Then, I would make calls to your Mom's former docs and fire them. Tell them
that they are not to prescribe or treat your mother again and that if they
do you will bring them before the State disciplinary board. The old neuro
knew he had been replaced and should have never given those orders.
Next make sure the nursing home knows who your Mom's current docs are and
ask the charge nurse if she believes your Mom to be medically stable. If
she says no, have her sent by ambulance to the hospital's ER. Demand that
the nurse and social worker who pulled this crap be removed from her case
and that an independent case manager be called in.
Keep detailed notes and let everyone treating her know that you are watching
closely. On Monday (or today if you have the energy), call your State
Office on Aging and ask to talk to the Ombudsman. Then file a formal
complaint. These people have significant power in most states.
What state are you in Diane? I don't recall.
Hang in there.
Walt
> Hi All - I know this is very long but I'm brain tired and tryed best as
> I could to write what I've been going thru with Mom and this hospital.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....
JLee - 05 Feb 2005 07:16 GMT
((((Diane))))
I have no words. This is as unbelievable as it is unforgiveable. Please
take Walt's advice and show them that you will see to it that your mom is
cared for properly.
Janet N.
RoseB - 04 Feb 2005 14:20 GMT
I have no words of advice, just that I am sorry to hear about this
happening to you and your Mom.
I think Walt gave some excellent advice.
Rose @}>->--
Being educated means that rather than fearing the unknown, one seeks to understand it. RB
Please remove "Ima" to reply.
Nann Bell - 04 Feb 2005 14:32 GMT
OMG, this is all so wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin!
Thank goodness Walt has made good suggestions about what to do already. The
only other thing I'd say is to see if the hospital has a patient rep and try
talking to that person. Also, get copies of all your mom's records AND ask
for a record of Medicare's response. That'll give you ammo to threaten a
lawsuit if you have to to get satisfaction at some point. Haven't you
consulted a lawyer about some of your mom's previous care? If you are still
in contact with him, perhaps his office can help with some of this. That
would save you some energy and calls from a law office can have so much more
impact.
At the very least, the social worker should have read the doctor's order and
note for the transfer herself before working on it and that would have
prevented the mix=up there right off. And you know how totally mishandled
the transfer back to the SNF was. These people need to be reamed.
((((((((((DiW)))))))))))))))))

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Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
Kelly Cobb - 04 Feb 2005 14:54 GMT
((((Diane))))
Walt knows more about this stuff than I do and I it sounds like good advice
to me. I just wanted to offer my support for you and your mom. You have both
been throught the wringer with this latest fiasco and deserve so much
better.
Kelly C.
Joan Carter - 04 Feb 2005 15:49 GMT
>Ok - So now I'm falling asleep but wanted to tell you what's been going
>on the past few days. Been at the SNF 2-4 hours at a stretch so I can
>be there when she wakes up.
What a mess! They call this modern medicine? Thank goodness I am in Canada. Our
system is not perfect but we don't have all these people dictating patient care.
---
Joan
Sandy C - 04 Feb 2005 15:55 GMT
Im so sorry to hear that you are going through so much. I think Walt has
the best advice for you. Im keeping you and your Mom in my prayers. Hang
in there. Sandy
JXStern - 04 Feb 2005 15:56 GMT
...
>I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....
DianeW, I'm so sorry to hear all of this, and my prayers are with your
Mom and you.
I had no idea until recently just how broken the entire health care
system is. I've taken notes on several points you mentioned. Sure,
much of it is about cost containment, but the fact that half the
system shuts down on weekends isn't a matter of cost, it's just
insanity. And the way doctors glibly write instructions and vanish
unreachably even mid-day, makes the whole thing a pitiful joke. And
the way complex and confusing cases are handled, a ouija board has as
much chance of success as the average, or even above-average, medical
facility. Ach, I could go on ...
With you as an advocate, there is a chance. I hope and pray your Mom
makes it through this battle.
J.
Char - 04 Feb 2005 19:55 GMT
Di honey, you have my prayers. What a hell to go thru.
Char
"Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green
Gwen Love - 04 Feb 2005 23:04 GMT
Diane, please do as Walt suggested. You have really gotten the run-around.
Gwen
> Hi All - I know this is very long but I'm brain tired and tryed best as
> I could to write what I've been going thru with Mom and this hospital.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....
Diane - 04 Feb 2005 23:35 GMT
unbelievable. well, not really, but just plain unforgiveable. and as a
former hospital social worker, most distressing to me. health care in
this country has lost sight of the human beings involved. i love walt's
advice and i hope you will take some of it when and if you have the
energy to do so. you must be so stressed! take care of YOU.
diane
AChrist787 - 05 Feb 2005 18:54 GMT
Hi Diane,
Man do I understand all of this. We had somewhat the same situation last
summer - a week or so before my mother died. Medicare wouldn't allow her dr.
to keep her in the hospital, even though we all agreed that's where she needed
to be. We had to take her back to her apartment, which we had basically
trashed, trying to pack her up to move to Phoenix. I spent the worst night of
my life in that apartment with her, terrified that she wouldn't make it through
the night. And that was nothing compared to what you are going through. I
would walk across hot coals barefooted to see that the social worker (or
whatever her title is) who had been working on this all day, got flayed alive.
I would be placing a call to a congressman or senator's office asap and start
the political wheels in motion. This is a hot button topic these days with a
whole lot of people. I would also see a lawyer who specializes in elder care
and see what recourse you have that way. Hospitals loathe lawyers and I'd be
doing my best to make sure they understood my displeasure.
Anne
AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.AZ
http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot
DianeW - 05 Feb 2005 20:03 GMT
Thank you everyone once again for all your kind thoughts and advice. I
plan on staying in touch with the powers that be at the hospital and
the others that Walt sugggested. Right now I'm concentrating on trying
to get Mom a bit more responsive. The neuro agreed to reduce the
amount of Keppra she is getting and I've been told she's more alert
today. I'm heading over there now to see her so I'll let you know
later.
Wayne and I are going on his annual company trip on Monday to Puerto
Vallarta Mexico. I have such mixed feelings about going but I know
I've left doing everything I can for Mom. My siblings have the
necessary copies of all documents including her medical history. I've
pushed the doctors as much as they are going to let me push them to see
if the meds she is on is causing the sleepiness. It's only for 5 days
and I thing Mom will do fine. I have visitors lined up for each day
also. Plus the nurses at the home love my Mom. She never complains
(leaves that up to me! LOL) and they are really doting on her. Her
main day nurse was very saddened to see such a set back after all the
hard work Mom had done since her stroke in April. She's really taking
good care of her.
So till tonite....Diane W.
Nann Bell - 06 Feb 2005 01:58 GMT
Have a wonderful, relaxing trip Diane! You've more than earned it.

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Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
Caroline Marold - 05 Feb 2005 21:42 GMT
OMG {{{{{{{{Diane}}}}}}}}
Duckie
> Hi All - I know this is very long but I'm brain tired and tryed best as
> I could to write what I've been going thru with Mom and this hospital.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....

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DianeW - 05 Feb 2005 23:47 GMT
Ok. So I'm back from my visit with Mom. She wasn't any more alert as
far as I could see but the day nurse and aid both raved at how well she
had done in the morning. They think she was just worn out when I got
there. I am sooo not a morning person. I really need to get over there
earlier. So I woke her up and was able to keep her awake for about 15
minutes. Anytime I quit talking to her she would fall back asleep
It's so hard to just talk on about nothing for too long. Anyway, I sat
down and wrote my grocery list, reading it outloud as I did. She was
just looking at me. Then she fell asleep. So I quit talking and guess
what? Then I fell asleep in the chair. What a pair we made! LOL So
I'll get up in the morning and go over before I start packing. Maybe I
can get Wayne and Nick to go out to breakfast with me. Good practice
for next week. Breakfast is included with the room!
DianeW
DianeW - 06 Feb 2005 05:56 GMT
Talking to myself again....Wayne dropped by on his way home from work
tonight. I swear .... I must just be hittng her at the wrong time of
day. Mom talks to him, did her hand and arm exercises with him and ask
him to bring her coffee cake tomorrow! Go figure. When I was growing
up, if Mom was mad at us kids we got the silent treatment. Kinda
reminds me of that. Who knows!
DianeW
Jo Firey - 06 Feb 2005 20:20 GMT
> Talking to myself again....Wayne dropped by on his way home from work
> tonight. I swear .... I must just be hittng her at the wrong time of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> DianeW
My guess. Your mom is a girl of a certain generation. She will
automatically do her darndest around a guy.
My mom tended to equate me and my sister with the female nurses. But would
always cooperate for her favorite male nurses aide.
Jo
DianeW - 07 Feb 2005 02:34 GMT
This is probably the last post till I get back from Mexico. Mom is
doing much better since they have reduced the keppra, the anti-seizure
med they were giving her. She stayed awake for a few hours while I was
there today. I fed her lunch and she ate all of it even tho it was
purreed. She was still more talkative with others than she was with me
but then I remembered she always gets angry with me when I am going to
take a vacation and gives me the silent treatment. So maybe it's a good
sign that some things never change! LOL
As for me, I woke up this morning in a major RA flare. Very swollen
ankles and wrists -- very sore back. I've been doing good for weeks
and now this. But I'm going to be getting on a plane at 6am and will be
on the beach in Puerto Vallarta by 3pm tomorrow. I upped my medrol to
head this off and now I have thrush in my mouth. The kids have gone to
the all nite pharm to get me some meds. Go figure. It's just not
fair. Hope I wake up fine in the morning.
Till next weekend....Thanks for all the wonderful support this week.
It's really meant a lot to me. I'll be remembering it all week.
Cyberhugs
DianeW
Kelly Cobb - 07 Feb 2005 02:40 GMT
I'm so glad to hear of your mom's improvement just in time for your trip.
That will help with the stress level a bit and let you enjoy your vacation
more.
Do you think the flare could be stress-related? Nah...:o)
Some time on the beach in Mexico will fix that right up. Have a margarita
for me...
Kelly C.;o)
> This is probably the last post till I get back from Mexico. Mom is
> doing much better since they have reduced the keppra, the anti-seizure
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Cyberhugs
> DianeW
Squirrely - 25 Feb 2005 06:12 GMT
How is your mom doing Diane W. Haven't heard any updates lately. How are you
also.

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Love and hugs to all
Good thoughts coming your way too.
Squirrely Jo
> Hi All - I know this is very long but I'm brain tired and tryed best as
> I could to write what I've been going thru with Mom and this hospital.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> I'll write more tomorrow. Very tired now.....