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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / January 2005

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I'm Sicker Than You

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Bruce - 09 Jan 2005 01:57 GMT
You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands, is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good when your healthy.

She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
Walt Hanks - 09 Jan 2005 02:23 GMT
Bruce, I can certainly understand how you feel.  At one point my wife and I were caring for both my mother and my mother-in-law at the same time.  My Mom had a great deal of guilt about my illnesses, blaming herself some how, but she always expected me to be able to do what she needed when she needed it.  She never said she was angry, but she knew how to play the guilt trip like a pro.  How I managed to get through graduate school in that situation I'll never know.

What I learned during those difficult years is as follows, and I know that it is easier said than done.

First, nobody can make you feel bad unless you let them.  Simply refuse to accept the guilt.  I even had to say to Mom on occasion, "I'm not accepting the guilt today Mom, so don't even bother."

Second, There are other people who can help.  Even if she doesn't have Long-term Care insurance (and everyone should!!!), there are community agencies that can help.  Your Mom will fight it, but *making sure* her needs are met IS the same as meeting them yourself.

Finally, sometimes the worst thing you can do for a person is do too much for them.  There is such a thing as learned helplessness.  It is very difficult to parent a parent, but that's what it comes down to.  You wouldn't do everything your kids wanted, so why would you do things your Mom could do for herself but just wants you to do for her?

You matter Bruce.  So do the others in your life.  You have to maintain your own health, physical, spiritual, and financial, before you can help anyone else.

Good luck my friend.  Write any time.

Walt Hanks

 You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands, is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good when your healthy.

 She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
DiWitt - 09 Jan 2005 04:43 GMT
Well said Walt. I'm going to save that and read it whenever my Mom lays the guilt trip on me. Mom creates "emergencies" so I have to run and rescue her. She knew I was having my tooth pulled this week and would be unavailable on Tuesday yet she called me 3 times that morning complaining of things that just had to be taken care of that day. It was unbelievable!  Of course they were not real emergencies and I had to remind her of that. She's living in a nursing home now and all she has to do it push the button and call the nurse yet she will call me and want me to call them for her. Go figure.  I turn the bell off on my phone at night sometimes just so I can get some extra sleep in the morning cause she wakes me up for the least important things. Then she leaves a message and calls her sister to complain that I have my  phone turned off again!  I know one day she won't be here and I will miss her dearly but it's been a rough week with Mom. My tooth was pulled and then I got bronchitis verging on pneumonia and just feel like crap and not like being yanked around in a guilt game.  Sorry to complain!

This morning she called to tell me I gave her my cough!  I haven't even seen her since I was sick so that's impossible. I told her to tell the nurse and she told me a long story about telling the nurse and what the nurse told her etc. How there was no med ordered for her and the dr was too busy for her to call him.  So of course I called the nurse to find out her version of the story.  I know they have PRN meds ordered for Mom for her if she gets a cough because of her lung condition. So I find out that Mom never even talked to the nurse about having a cold or cough and that it doesn't seem like Mom even has a cold!  Mom has had this nurse for over a year and she's very good. She pays close attention to Mom's symptoms and wouldn't make stuff up or lie to me. I'm sure of that. Mom on the other hand tells everyone a different story.

I know it must be hard for Mom to live in a nursing home. And I know she gets lonely but she refuses to leave her room. She creates the emergencies so we have to rescue her which invariably means a trip over. But not this week. I'm way to sick. Almost too sick to feel guilty.

Signature

Cyberhugs,
DianeW

It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential
is invisible to the eye. --Antoine de Saint Exupéry

 Bruce, I can certainly understand how you feel.  At one point my wife and I were caring for both my mother and my mother-in-law at the same time.  My Mom had a great deal of guilt about my illnesses, blaming herself some how, but she always expected me to be able to do what she needed when she needed it.  She never said she was angry, but she knew how to play the guilt trip like a pro.  How I managed to get through graduate school in that situation I'll never know.

 What I learned during those difficult years is as follows, and I know that it is easier said than done.

 First, nobody can make you feel bad unless you let them.  Simply refuse to accept the guilt.  I even had to say to Mom on occasion, "I'm not accepting the guilt today Mom, so don't even bother."

 Second, There are other people who can help.  Even if she doesn't have Long-term Care insurance (and everyone should!!!), there are community agencies that can help.  Your Mom will fight it, but *making sure* her needs are met IS the same as meeting them yourself.

 Finally, sometimes the worst thing you can do for a person is do too much for them.  There is such a thing as learned helplessness.  It is very difficult to parent a parent, but that's what it comes down to.  You wouldn't do everything your kids wanted, so why would you do things your Mom could do for herself but just wants you to do for her?

 You matter Bruce.  So do the others in your life.  You have to maintain your own health, physical, spiritual, and financial, before you can help anyone else.

 Good luck my friend.  Write any time.

 Walt Hanks

 "Bruce" <rbmm@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:Ub0Ed.206332$Np3.8693328@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
   You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands, is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good when your healthy.

   She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
saavik - 09 Jan 2005 17:23 GMT
I beg your pardon, but have you considered that there is some dementia
process going on? It's not just the guilt trips, it's the fact that she
calls you in the middle of the night, and the fact that she refuses to
leave her room, and she tells you of things that never happened, etc.
She may get more and more unreasonable with time. When I first read your
e-mails, I thought she was living alone, but I am relieved to read that
she is in a nursing home with 24/7 assistance. Under the circumstances,
it is entirely reasonable for you to turn off your phone in order to get
a night's sleep. If your health fails, she will be much more alone, no?

Margo

> Well said Walt. I'm going to save that and read it whenever my Mom
> lays the guilt trip on me. Mom creates "emergencies" so I have to run
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
>           Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on
>           guilt). Help!!
DiWitt - 09 Jan 2005 18:32 GMT
Yes, there is some dementia going on but my Mom has been like this her whole
life so actually when the dementia is worse, the guilt like stuff is better
if that makes any sense. Her sister tells me even as a child (Mom was the
oldest) she acted this way. Mom has had 6 strokes in the past 15 months and
each one leaves her with a bit more dementia. But she does get some bit of
recovery from each one. The further away from the incident, the better and
clearer her mind and body gets She's in a pretty good place ability wise
right now which is why the manipulation is so prevalent. Making things up
has to be looked at two ways - 1 - What is she trying to get? or 2 - Is she
not remembering and is making up something to fill in the blank?  When she
starts getting better from the stroke she gets to a place where she knows
she doesn't remember and makes up something because she doesn't like to
admit that she doesn't remember. Does that make sense? She also has a 40%
hearing loss and refuses to wear a hearing aide so sometimes she doesn't
hear what she thinks she does. All and all, it adds up and can be very
exasperating!

Signature

Cyberhugs,
DianeW

It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential
is invisible to the eye. --Antoine de Saint Exup?ry

>I beg your pardon, but have you considered that there is some dementia
> process going on? It's not just the guilt trips, it's the fact that she
[quoted text clipped - 98 lines]
>>           Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on
>>           guilt). Help!!
saavik - 09 Jan 2005 18:55 GMT
Yes it does make sense. I know because I've had the same experiences with my
Dad. He also suffers from vascular dementia and a whole host of ailments, any
one of which are at the point where they could be fatal at any time. He is in a
nursing home where he gets excellent  care ( we visit regularly but randomly).

He no longer uses his phone, but I've had the 5a.m. calls as well as the 'I
don't like the food here' calls in the past. Also the ' I can't find my truck
and I have to take the siybeans to the co-op' calls. (The food is good - regular
but random visits confirm it. The truck and the crops are long ago history)

You have my sympathies; this is not an easy thing to get through, watching our
parents disintegrate before our eyes. But there is no way out but through; we
just have to bear up somehow.

Margo

> Yes, there is some dementia going on but my Mom has been like this her whole
> life so actually when the dementia is worse, the guilt like stuff is better
[quoted text clipped - 121 lines]
> >>           Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on
> >>           guilt). Help!!
DiWitt - 10 Jan 2005 04:57 GMT
Margo - Sounds like you went thru the same thing with your Dad. Mom went
thru a phase where she called me every night and asked for Diane. When I
told her I was Diane she wanted the other one. Her third daughter. She only
has two.  Last week she ask who was watching the dog who had been gone for 3
years. Stuff like that. It's worse when she has an infection. Sometimes the
craziness is our first clue that she has a new UTI.

Signature

Cyberhugs,
DianeW

It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential
is invisible to the eye. --Antoine de Saint Exup?ry

> Yes it does make sense. I know because I've had the same experiences with
> my
[quoted text clipped - 156 lines]
>> >>           Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on
>> >>           guilt). Help!!
debbie m. - 09 Jan 2005 15:03 GMT
thanks walt, i needed that!  Hope it helps bruce too.

debbie m.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/angels1/

Bruce, I can certainly understand how you feel.  At one point my wife and I
were caring for both my mother and my mother-in-law at the same time.  My
Mom had a great deal of guilt about my illnesses, blaming herself some how,
but she always expected me to be able to do what she needed when she needed
it.  She never said she was angry, but she knew how to play the guilt trip
like a pro.  How I managed to get through graduate school in that situation
I'll never know.

What I learned during those difficult years is as follows, and I know that
it is easier said than done.

First, nobody can make you feel bad unless you let them.  Simply refuse to
accept the guilt.  I even had to say to Mom on occasion, "I'm not accepting
the guilt today Mom, so don't even bother."

Second, There are other people who can help.  Even if she doesn't have
Long-term Care insurance (and everyone should!!!), there are community
agencies that can help.  Your Mom will fight it, but *making sure* her needs
are met IS the same as meeting them yourself.

Finally, sometimes the worst thing you can do for a person is do too much
for them.  There is such a thing as learned helplessness.  It is very
difficult to parent a parent, but that's what it comes down to.  You
wouldn't do everything your kids wanted, so why would you do things your Mom
could do for herself but just wants you to do for her?

You matter Bruce.  So do the others in your life.  You have to maintain your
own health, physical, spiritual, and financial, before you can help anyone
else.

Good luck my friend.  Write any time.

Walt Hanks

 You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a
nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with
respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands,
is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good
when your healthy.

 She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or
wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or
yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older
than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but
dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough
energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I
really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in
the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not
Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
Bruce - 09 Jan 2005 17:57 GMT
Thanks Walt, lots of great observations and suggestions.  Lets see if I can get one to work!!
Bruce
 Bruce, I can certainly understand how you feel.  At one point my wife and I were caring for both my mother and my mother-in-law at the same time.  My Mom had a great deal of guilt about my illnesses, blaming herself some how, but she always expected me to be able to do what she needed when she needed it.  She never said she was angry, but she knew how to play the guilt trip like a pro.  How I managed to get through graduate school in that situation I'll never know.

 What I learned during those difficult years is as follows, and I know that it is easier said than done.

 First, nobody can make you feel bad unless you let them.  Simply refuse to accept the guilt.  I even had to say to Mom on occasion, "I'm not accepting the guilt today Mom, so don't even bother."

 Second, There are other people who can help.  Even if she doesn't have Long-term Care insurance (and everyone should!!!), there are community agencies that can help.  Your Mom will fight it, but *making sure* her needs are met IS the same as meeting them yourself.

 Finally, sometimes the worst thing you can do for a person is do too much for them.  There is such a thing as learned helplessness.  It is very difficult to parent a parent, but that's what it comes down to.  You wouldn't do everything your kids wanted, so why would you do things your Mom could do for herself but just wants you to do for her?

 You matter Bruce.  So do the others in your life.  You have to maintain your own health, physical, spiritual, and financial, before you can help anyone else.

 Good luck my friend.  Write any time.

 Walt Hanks

 "Bruce" <rbmm@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:Ub0Ed.206332$Np3.8693328@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
   You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands, is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good when your healthy.

   She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
d'huit - 09 Jan 2005 03:09 GMT
 You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a
nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with
respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands,
is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good
when your healthy.

 She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or
wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or
yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older
than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but
dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough
energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I
really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in
the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not
Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!

 bummer guy!

 it's absolutely ok to say, "no"  or even, "yes, but later" whenever you
need to.  tell yourself you refuse to play the game, bruce.  figure out what
triggers the game and side step the trigger.  if the trigger is your reason,
"i'm too sick", then don't give that reason.  don't lie, but "i'm
unavailable" is a reason.  you don't have to explain any more than that.  if
she insists you do explain, just say, "i'll fill you in about it, in a few
days."  then, if she remembers in a few days to ask you about it, divert her
attention to something else--new dress?  new hairdo?  what color or pattern
is the fabric in those curtains?  who's the new neighbor? or whatever is
appropriate..

 because she's getting up there in years, it may or may not be  the case
that she's frightened by your being sick and is masking it with her anger.
if that's the case, you don't have to feel guilty about that, bruce.  you
cannot control her emotions, only your own.  just be gentle about hers  and
yours and try not to push that  button of hers.  yes, i know, some people
really can be very controlling and can be very nasty, but even that is
fear-based.

 my folks are in their 80s and it was hard having to say "no" to them, when
butch was so ill and even now, sometimes.  but they learned that i don't
have to say "yes" as much as i used to.   if it's an emergency and i can't
handle it, i call one of my sisters or brothers-in-law.  i even called 911,
twice in one night---once for my folks and once for butch.

 what i'm saying is if it's an emergency situation, bruce, like your mom's
plumbing overflows or something,  try to come up with or "pre-arrange"
alternative help for her---like a neighbor or a friend that can step in to
help, when you cannot.

 btw, jewish moms do not have the corner on guilt, at all, bruce, never
had.  my german grandmother and great-grandfather were extremely good at it
and the puerto rican side of the family is still good at it too.   that's
one lutheran, one presbyterian and several catholics in one family.  that
jewish mother/guilt thing is a worn out stereotype, from a bygone era, that
never was true in any general sense.

 hope i helped a little.

 kate
delcorso - 09 Jan 2005 03:56 GMT
You're not alone Bruce.  In November my dad was hanging blinds for me.  I was helping him by holding one end of the blinds and finally told him that I just couldn't hold on any longer because my arm was killing me....now this was my arm that I ended up having surgery on last week.  His comment to me was..."You think your arm is bad, you oughta be me with this bursitis in my shoulder."  GRRRRRR!!!  My mom and I both have RA.   We both get so aggravated at times with my dad who is healthy as can be, yet will run to the doctor for an hangnail....and will minimize our stuff.

I think some people have a hard time empathizing with others.  It's so hard for them to see past themselves.
I wish I had some answers for you, but unfortunately I get irritated with my own family at times.  The only thing I can tell you is to turn a deaf ear to it as much as you can.  Maybe putting your hands over your ears and humming!!  LOL  

Seriously, I think Walt's suggestions are wonderful!

Carol
 You know all my life I've been taught to "honour" my parents. I was a nasty little ingrate as a child but in later years treated my parents with respect.  In many ways though, I am my mother's son. She bellows commands, is critical and can never relent in an argument   It's all well and good when your healthy.

 She is in her early seventy's I'm in my mid forties.  When she needs or wants something done I do my best to be accommodating. If my answer is no or yes but not today and I use being ill as a reason, see starts the I'm older than you and do more than you.  On any given day that may be true but dealing with so many illnesses esp. ones that leave you with barely enough energy to wipe your a.s let alone cross the hall to get to the washroom.  I really hate wasting the energy to play the game I'm sicker than you; and in the end being totally exhausted and left somehow guilty...and were not Jewish (my friend Jacob's mom has the corner on guilt). Help!!
 
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