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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / December 2004

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OTP:   Yahoo - new Scrooge ?

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firechief - 24 Dec 2004 23:53 GMT
                               Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens to
                               Digitally Stored Information Upon Person's
Death

                                                  ( P H O T O )

                               John Ellsworth is shown by his computer in
                               Wixom, Mich., Thursday, Dec. 23, 2004 with a
                               screen saver showing his son Marine Lance
Cpl.
                               Justin M. Ellsworth, who died in Iraq Nov.
13,
                               2004. As more of our personal lives go
digital,
                               family members, estate attorneys and online
                               service providers are increasingly grappling
                               with what happens to those information bits
when
                               their owners die. This week, John Ellsworth
                               publicized his struggle to access the Yahoo
                               e-mail account belonging to his son. Though
                               Yahoo's policies state that accounts
"terminate
                               upon your death," John Ellsworth said his
son
                               would have wanted to give him access.

                               12-23-2004 11:39 PM
                               By ANICK JESDANUN

                               NEW YORK --  As more of our personal lives
go
                               digital, family members, estate attorneys
and
                               online service providers are increasingly
                               grappling with what happens to those
information
                               bits when their owners die.

                               Sometimes, the question involves e-mail
sitting
                               on a distant server; other times, it's about
the
                               photos or financial records stored on a
                               password-protected computer.

                               This week, a Michigan man publicized his
                               struggle to access the Yahoo e-mail account
                               belonging to his son, Marine Lance Cpl.
Justin
                               M. Ellsworth, 20, who was killed Nov. 13 in
                               Iraq. Though Yahoo's policies state that
                               accounts "terminate upon your death," John
                               Ellsworth said his son would have wanted to
give
                               him access.

                               "He was wanting to forward his e-mail from
                               strangers," Ellsworth said. "They were
letters
                               of encouragement. He said all their support
kept
                               him motivated. We've talked back and forth
about
                               how we were going to print them out and put
them
                               in a scrapbook."

                               To release those messages in such
circumstances,
                               Yahoo said, would violate the privacy rights
of thr
                               deceased and those with whom they've
corresponded.

                               "The commitment we've made to every person
who
                               signs-up for a Yahoo! Mail account is to
treat
                               their email as a private communication and
to
                               treat the content of their messages as
                               confidential," spokeswoman Mary Osako said
                               in a statement.

                               But Osako said the company was dealing with
                               uncharted territory and was willing to
continue
                               discussions with Ellsworth. One option could
                               involve Ellsworth getting a court order,
which
                               Yahoo would abide. Ellsworth said he
preferred
                               to avoid litigation.

                               Other service providers, including America
                               Online Inc., EarthLink Inc. and Microsoft
Corp.,
                               which runs Hotmail, have provisions for
                               transferring accounts upon proof of death
and
                               identity as next of kin.

                               AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham said the
company
                               gets dozens of such requests a day and has a
                               separate fax number, mailing address and
                               full-time service representative devoted to
                               fulfillment. Nonetheless, some privacy
advocates
                               question whether that's a good approach.

                               "People might decide what they want family
                               members to see or keep secret sometimes for
                               family harmony reasons," said Peter Swire,
an
                               Ohio State University law professor who
served
                               as former President Bill Clinton's chief
privacy
                               counselor. "They may know secrets of other
                               family members that they hold in confidence:
                               The sister had an abortion; the father had a
first
                               marriage."

                               Swire said Yahoo's policies are stricter
than
                               those for medical records _ and rightly so.
He
                               said quick access to medical records is
needed
                               for emergency care, and such records are
                               unlikely to trample other people's privacy
                               rights, as e-mail could.

                               Rather than maintaining an either-or policy,
                               perhaps service providers could ask users
                               when they sign up whether they'd like e-mail
                               disclosed upon death, said Jason Catlett,
                               president of the privacy-rights group
                               Junkbusters Corp.

                               "If you put money into an IRA (individual
                               retirement account) or a mutual fund, they
will
                               ask you for the next of kin," Catlett said.

                               But Graham said cell phone providers and
fitness
                               centers don't make similar requests, and
doing
                               so with Internet service "is simply a
turnoff and
                               it's not necessary. We already have a
process
                               that works quite well and quite
responsibly."

                               For now, such disputes are rare, and most
                               struggles for access involve family members
who
                               need to obtain financial records on a
computer,
                               said Bob Weiss, president of Password
Crackers
                               Inc., a Maryland company that recovers lost
                               passwords. Less than 2 percent of Weiss's
                               business involves relatives of the deceased,
he
                               said.

                               Still, "as more of our lives go online,
hosted
                               faraway, we will want to think carefully
about
                               the disposition of those bits," said
Jonathan
                               Zittrain, a professor at Harvard Law
School's
                               Berkman Center for Internet & Society.

                               Decades of laws and court decisions already
                               guide physical possessions, especially when
                               there is no will. What makes online assets
                               different is the fact that they often
involve
                               some service contract with an outside
company,
                               said R. Michael Daniel, an estates attorney
in
                               Pittsburgh.

                               The easiest approach, Internet scholars say,
is
                               simply to leave behind a password.

                               "I think this (Yahoo) case will be helpful
to
                               people who are thinking about issues not
only of
                               inheritance but planning," said Jonathan I.
Ezor,
                               a professor of law and technology at Touro
                               Law Center in Huntington, N.Y. "When one
family
                               member tells another where the important
                               paperwork is, the will, safe deposit box
key,
                               etc., the list of passwords is going to be
added
                               to that."
JLee - 25 Dec 2004 08:13 GMT
>                                 Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens to
>                                 Digitally Stored Information Upon Person's
Death

This prompted quite an animated discussion in our household.  My first
reaction was to say the account should absolutely be terminated (I'd be
horrified if my personal emails were handed to a family member).  However,
my level-headed son presented the more sensible solution... termination as
the default, but with an option to state what will happen to your account
upon your demise.

Not something I like to think about, but on the other hand it is something
that needs to be addressed.  We're going to see if it can be considered in
the next revision of our wills.  Thanks for pointing this out.

Janet N.
d'huit - 25 Dec 2004 18:47 GMT
>>                                 Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens
> to
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Janet N.

interesting, janet.  i wonder if your will might hold any sway over the
original "terms of agreement" you signed with your isp, though.

i've yet to change servers and i use ms outlook express provided by comcast.
does one lose all of one's email file folders that contain much of this
stuff when one does change servers?  or does that only happen when your
email is stored on a browser based web account?

i have some precious photographs of my best friend who passed away, shortly
after butch did, in a file and some old sweet and personal last emails of
butch's to me from his job.  i know our son would love to have those
mushy/sweet emails between his father and me, should something happen to me.
(i just wouldn't want to give them to him now, in hard copy and make my son
feel like i'm going to leave him an orphan anytime soon.  and physical
storage space around here is becoming a rare commodity.)

hmmm . . . now, i'm wondering what i should do about these photos and
emails.

kate
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 25 Dec 2004 19:03 GMT
Kate,

Perhaps you could back up the files you want to keep?  I've done that
with all my files (lots and lots of pictures).  You "save" them onto a
floppy disk or a CD.  It's always a good idea to do that anyway, in
case of a hard disk "crash and burn".

On one of the other groups, people were talking about Yahoo!  being
creeps over this.  One guy wrote in, what if their son was a porn
addict, or something like that.  He kept it from the family, but had it
in his emails?  Would you want that to be your last memory of your son?
What if he had secrets that he didn't want to share (maybe he had
someone on the side)?

I suppose if you want someone to be able to access your accounts, leave
the log in and passwords for them.  My husband and I know each other's
passwords.  We've never read each other's mail, but we've known each
other's passwords, "just in case", since we started on the 'net (1995 I
think).

Smokie Darling (Annie)
d'huit - 25 Dec 2004 22:10 GMT
> Kate,
>
> Perhaps you could back up the files you want to keep?  I've done that
> with all my files (lots and lots of pictures).  You "save" them onto a
> floppy disk or a CD.  It's always a good idea to do that anyway, in
> case of a hard disk "crash and burn".

****y'know, i've had roughly 8 or 9 different computers (ranging from dos to
xp platform) over the past almost 20 years.   for some reason, i'm very
simple-minded when it comes to using them (though i can repair them, "sort
of ok").  never could figure out "how to use" the built-in zip drive in one
system i had, when the zip drives first came out; and still haven't figured
out how to write to cd disks on this computer (i hate not having hard copy
manuals and just having help files, which often just frustrate me).
floppies, i have no problem with, but their storage capacity is very
limited.  but, even saving emails to floppy, i haven't figured out yet since
this was possible, because i can't seem to re-open those saved emails once
i've saved them, for some reason.   i'm basically a visual learner when it
comes to practical applications (hands-on doing).  i have to be "shown, not
told" with this kind of thing (which helps me make creative leaps to solve
other such problems/issues/stuff), and maybe that's been my problem with all
of these computer difficulties i've had.

> On one of the other groups, people were talking about Yahoo!  being
> creeps over this.  One guy wrote in, what if their son was a porn
> addict, or something like that.  He kept it from the family, but had it
> in his emails?  Would you want that to be your last memory of your son?
> What if he had secrets that he didn't want to share (maybe he had
> someone on the side)?

***i dunno, annie.  i think the answer to those questions might be different
for some people.  it's kinda like asking if you would still love your son,
even if he were in prison for murder or something else horrific.  for me,
this might sound goofy to you, but i know i'd be the person who turned him
in for the crime (if i knew about it before anybody else did), and i also
know i'd still love him.  so, i don't think it would matter to my love for
him, even if there were some crimes hidden that i would have to report to
have dealt with by authorities, after the fact.  as far as his having an
affair or something like that goes, i can't see hurting innocents by
revealing those things to them.  i think i might destroy those records,
after seriously considering the ramifications both ways, and hope for the
best for all parties concerned.  but it really would depend upon who else
those kinds of things might affected and how.

> I suppose if you want someone to be able to access your accounts, leave
> the log in and passwords for them.  My husband and I know each other's
> passwords.  We've never read each other's mail, but we've known each
> other's passwords, "just in case", since we started on the 'net (1995 I
> think).

***this is a good idea, annie.  thank you.  i've already put my youngest son
on all my accounts, to simplify things and will be putting his name on the
deeds and titles as well, because i can and do trust him explicity with no
hesitation.  (he's demonstrated how trustworthy he is with these kinds of
things, over and over again through the years.)  so, that's a definite
option.  thanks.

kate

> Smokie Darling (Annie)
firechief - 26 Dec 2004 06:40 GMT
Kate wrote

> but, even saving emails to floppy, i haven't figured out yet since
> this was possible, because i can't seem to re-open those saved
> emails once i've saved them, for some reason.

In outlook express:
  File
  Save As
  and select TEXT

Then you can read them with any "text" reader.

You can even import them into new messages
(and edit them) using:
     Insert
     Text

That is how I save Larry's post and now re-post them occassionally.

... Dinning on the moon:  Great food, but no atmosphere.
 
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