Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / December 2004
OTP: Yahoo - new Scrooge ?
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firechief - 24 Dec 2004 23:53 GMT Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens to Digitally Stored Information Upon Person's Death
( P H O T O )
John Ellsworth is shown by his computer in Wixom, Mich., Thursday, Dec. 23, 2004 with a screen saver showing his son Marine Lance Cpl. Justin M. Ellsworth, who died in Iraq Nov. 13, 2004. As more of our personal lives go digital, family members, estate attorneys and online service providers are increasingly grappling with what happens to those information bits when their owners die. This week, John Ellsworth publicized his struggle to access the Yahoo e-mail account belonging to his son. Though Yahoo's policies state that accounts "terminate upon your death," John Ellsworth said his son would have wanted to give him access.
12-23-2004 11:39 PM By ANICK JESDANUN
NEW YORK -- As more of our personal lives go digital, family members, estate attorneys and online service providers are increasingly grappling with what happens to those information bits when their owners die.
Sometimes, the question involves e-mail sitting on a distant server; other times, it's about the photos or financial records stored on a password-protected computer.
This week, a Michigan man publicized his struggle to access the Yahoo e-mail account belonging to his son, Marine Lance Cpl. Justin M. Ellsworth, 20, who was killed Nov. 13 in Iraq. Though Yahoo's policies state that accounts "terminate upon your death," John Ellsworth said his son would have wanted to give him access.
"He was wanting to forward his e-mail from strangers," Ellsworth said. "They were letters of encouragement. He said all their support kept him motivated. We've talked back and forth about how we were going to print them out and put them in a scrapbook."
To release those messages in such circumstances, Yahoo said, would violate the privacy rights of thr deceased and those with whom they've corresponded.
"The commitment we've made to every person who signs-up for a Yahoo! Mail account is to treat their email as a private communication and to treat the content of their messages as confidential," spokeswoman Mary Osako said in a statement.
But Osako said the company was dealing with uncharted territory and was willing to continue discussions with Ellsworth. One option could involve Ellsworth getting a court order, which Yahoo would abide. Ellsworth said he preferred to avoid litigation.
Other service providers, including America Online Inc., EarthLink Inc. and Microsoft Corp., which runs Hotmail, have provisions for transferring accounts upon proof of death and identity as next of kin.
AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham said the company gets dozens of such requests a day and has a separate fax number, mailing address and full-time service representative devoted to fulfillment. Nonetheless, some privacy advocates question whether that's a good approach.
"People might decide what they want family members to see or keep secret sometimes for family harmony reasons," said Peter Swire, an Ohio State University law professor who served as former President Bill Clinton's chief privacy counselor. "They may know secrets of other family members that they hold in confidence: The sister had an abortion; the father had a first marriage."
Swire said Yahoo's policies are stricter than those for medical records _ and rightly so. He said quick access to medical records is needed for emergency care, and such records are unlikely to trample other people's privacy rights, as e-mail could.
Rather than maintaining an either-or policy, perhaps service providers could ask users when they sign up whether they'd like e-mail disclosed upon death, said Jason Catlett, president of the privacy-rights group Junkbusters Corp.
"If you put money into an IRA (individual retirement account) or a mutual fund, they will ask you for the next of kin," Catlett said.
But Graham said cell phone providers and fitness centers don't make similar requests, and doing so with Internet service "is simply a turnoff and it's not necessary. We already have a process that works quite well and quite responsibly."
For now, such disputes are rare, and most struggles for access involve family members who need to obtain financial records on a computer, said Bob Weiss, president of Password Crackers Inc., a Maryland company that recovers lost passwords. Less than 2 percent of Weiss's business involves relatives of the deceased, he said.
Still, "as more of our lives go online, hosted faraway, we will want to think carefully about the disposition of those bits," said Jonathan Zittrain, a professor at Harvard Law School's Berkman Center for Internet & Society.
Decades of laws and court decisions already guide physical possessions, especially when there is no will. What makes online assets different is the fact that they often involve some service contract with an outside company, said R. Michael Daniel, an estates attorney in Pittsburgh.
The easiest approach, Internet scholars say, is simply to leave behind a password.
"I think this (Yahoo) case will be helpful to people who are thinking about issues not only of inheritance but planning," said Jonathan I. Ezor, a professor of law and technology at Touro Law Center in Huntington, N.Y. "When one family member tells another where the important paperwork is, the will, safe deposit box key, etc., the list of passwords is going to be added to that."
JLee - 25 Dec 2004 08:13 GMT > Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens to > Digitally Stored Information Upon Person's Death
This prompted quite an animated discussion in our household. My first reaction was to say the account should absolutely be terminated (I'd be horrified if my personal emails were handed to a family member). However, my level-headed son presented the more sensible solution... termination as the default, but with an option to state what will happen to your account upon your demise.
Not something I like to think about, but on the other hand it is something that needs to be addressed. We're going to see if it can be considered in the next revision of our wills. Thanks for pointing this out.
Janet N.
d'huit - 25 Dec 2004 18:47 GMT >> Groups Grapple With Issue of What Happens > to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Janet N. interesting, janet. i wonder if your will might hold any sway over the original "terms of agreement" you signed with your isp, though.
i've yet to change servers and i use ms outlook express provided by comcast. does one lose all of one's email file folders that contain much of this stuff when one does change servers? or does that only happen when your email is stored on a browser based web account?
i have some precious photographs of my best friend who passed away, shortly after butch did, in a file and some old sweet and personal last emails of butch's to me from his job. i know our son would love to have those mushy/sweet emails between his father and me, should something happen to me. (i just wouldn't want to give them to him now, in hard copy and make my son feel like i'm going to leave him an orphan anytime soon. and physical storage space around here is becoming a rare commodity.)
hmmm . . . now, i'm wondering what i should do about these photos and emails.
kate
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 25 Dec 2004 19:03 GMT Kate,
Perhaps you could back up the files you want to keep? I've done that with all my files (lots and lots of pictures). You "save" them onto a floppy disk or a CD. It's always a good idea to do that anyway, in case of a hard disk "crash and burn".
On one of the other groups, people were talking about Yahoo! being creeps over this. One guy wrote in, what if their son was a porn addict, or something like that. He kept it from the family, but had it in his emails? Would you want that to be your last memory of your son? What if he had secrets that he didn't want to share (maybe he had someone on the side)?
I suppose if you want someone to be able to access your accounts, leave the log in and passwords for them. My husband and I know each other's passwords. We've never read each other's mail, but we've known each other's passwords, "just in case", since we started on the 'net (1995 I think).
Smokie Darling (Annie)
d'huit - 25 Dec 2004 22:10 GMT > Kate, > > Perhaps you could back up the files you want to keep? I've done that > with all my files (lots and lots of pictures). You "save" them onto a > floppy disk or a CD. It's always a good idea to do that anyway, in > case of a hard disk "crash and burn". ****y'know, i've had roughly 8 or 9 different computers (ranging from dos to xp platform) over the past almost 20 years. for some reason, i'm very simple-minded when it comes to using them (though i can repair them, "sort of ok"). never could figure out "how to use" the built-in zip drive in one system i had, when the zip drives first came out; and still haven't figured out how to write to cd disks on this computer (i hate not having hard copy manuals and just having help files, which often just frustrate me). floppies, i have no problem with, but their storage capacity is very limited. but, even saving emails to floppy, i haven't figured out yet since this was possible, because i can't seem to re-open those saved emails once i've saved them, for some reason. i'm basically a visual learner when it comes to practical applications (hands-on doing). i have to be "shown, not told" with this kind of thing (which helps me make creative leaps to solve other such problems/issues/stuff), and maybe that's been my problem with all of these computer difficulties i've had.
> On one of the other groups, people were talking about Yahoo! being > creeps over this. One guy wrote in, what if their son was a porn > addict, or something like that. He kept it from the family, but had it > in his emails? Would you want that to be your last memory of your son? > What if he had secrets that he didn't want to share (maybe he had > someone on the side)? ***i dunno, annie. i think the answer to those questions might be different for some people. it's kinda like asking if you would still love your son, even if he were in prison for murder or something else horrific. for me, this might sound goofy to you, but i know i'd be the person who turned him in for the crime (if i knew about it before anybody else did), and i also know i'd still love him. so, i don't think it would matter to my love for him, even if there were some crimes hidden that i would have to report to have dealt with by authorities, after the fact. as far as his having an affair or something like that goes, i can't see hurting innocents by revealing those things to them. i think i might destroy those records, after seriously considering the ramifications both ways, and hope for the best for all parties concerned. but it really would depend upon who else those kinds of things might affected and how.
> I suppose if you want someone to be able to access your accounts, leave > the log in and passwords for them. My husband and I know each other's > passwords. We've never read each other's mail, but we've known each > other's passwords, "just in case", since we started on the 'net (1995 I > think). ***this is a good idea, annie. thank you. i've already put my youngest son on all my accounts, to simplify things and will be putting his name on the deeds and titles as well, because i can and do trust him explicity with no hesitation. (he's demonstrated how trustworthy he is with these kinds of things, over and over again through the years.) so, that's a definite option. thanks.
kate
> Smokie Darling (Annie) firechief - 26 Dec 2004 06:40 GMT Kate wrote
> but, even saving emails to floppy, i haven't figured out yet since > this was possible, because i can't seem to re-open those saved > emails once i've saved them, for some reason. In outlook express: File Save As and select TEXT
Then you can read them with any "text" reader.
You can even import them into new messages (and edit them) using: Insert Text
That is how I save Larry's post and now re-post them occassionally.
... Dinning on the moon: Great food, but no atmosphere.
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