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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / December 2004

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i'm back from the neurologist . . .

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d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 00:20 GMT
egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
jittery) and certainly, i still hadn't eaten anything.

he finally sees me.   we sit in his office for a bit, i can feel him sizing
me up and then, he tells me what a rough day it's been for him and why.  i
notice balloons on his desk and ask if it is his birthday.  yeah, but it's
still a bad day, cuz of patients' families who don't trust his best advice
and so on and so forth.   most of the time is spent talking about his other
patients.  he asks me  a few questions based on the form i filled out.  has
me walk up the hallway normally and down the hallway, on heels, on toes and
toe to heel.  uhhhh . . . not much i can do about how strangely i did it,
cuz of my bum leg.

then he puts me in an exam room and disappears for longer than a few
minutes.  i'm going nutty, cuz my back, hips and neck hurt.  so, i spend the
time stretching and trying to be comfortable, but i'm miserable.  and it's
hot in there.

he finally comes in.  my bp is 172/92---highest i've EVER seen it.  runs me
through the neuro exam paces.  then tells me to get dressed and go back to
his office, where i find he's on the dictaphone doing his dictation about
me.  my brain is not working or picking up on things.  he takes a phone call
in the middle of dictation and starts talking to two other doctors about
another patient.  finishes that, looks at me and asks if he did dictation on
me.  told him i walked in on something you were saying into the phone that
sounded like me.

says we are going to do just a cervical mri to rule out stenosis and if
there isn't any, then he'll rule out something else that went clean over my
head the moment he said "and stress disorder/anxiety disorder.  i say,
"what?  is my body just acting out like a kid who doesn't know what to do
with his energy?"  he says, stress can cause all this numbness.  i'm
thinking, yeah, right.  where's the bridge you're gonna try to sell
me?--guess, i gotta look at it, cuz you say so.  i say, "gee, y'know, i
really wish somebody would take pictures of the rest of my spine".  he says,
"why?"  i say, "because my middle and lower back have hurt for over 30
years."  he says, "pain is not a good reason to have an mri."   i thought,
who said mri?---i said pictures.   but i didn't say it out loud.

i never handed him the two pages of stuff i typed out from my post on asa
and the few other things i remembered.  i figured, what's the use; like what
would be the point of that exercise.  i figured, he's already on the scent
of something else; might as well not confuse him with details.

mri slated for the 29th; next appmt with him on the 3rd of jan.

kate
Ann - 23 Dec 2004 00:49 GMT
Kate that sure sounds like a confusing appointment.  I probably would go
along with it until your next appt. and see what happens then.  My first
neurological appt. took over 2 hours.  Second was for EMG and nerve
conduction studies and took about 3 hours.  In between were MRI's of my
spine and brain, blood tests and urinalysis.  Third time there was a
short visit where I was told she wanted further blood studies and
diagnosed me with neuropathy.  Today she spent over an hour with me and
did most of the same tests again (walking on heels and toes, sticking
pins in me, testing strength in toes on up to shoulders) and is sending
me for more blood tests and xrays of my hips. We spoke only about Me
except for a short remark she made about her baby when I saw her picture
on the desk.  I really don't like the sound of your appointment all.
Sorry to ramble on, but want you to be able to compare so you can look
for more from this guy next time you see him.

Ann
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 02:09 GMT
> Kate that sure sounds like a confusing appointment.  I probably would go
> along with it until your next appt. and see what happens then.  My first
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Ann

it was confusing to me, too, ann.  he did do all the sticking pins and
strength testing stuff.  didn't say anything about it.  i hate when they do
that---don't say if it was ok, clinically, or not.  it was no hour long
appmt.  felt dismissive to me.  and mostly, my appmt. was about him.  it
sucked, to be honest with you.

i'm just tired, a little cranky and wish i could have a real hug.

kate
Ann - 23 Dec 2004 02:46 GMT
Here's a cyber hug for you and please send it back because I'm down in
the dumps too.  Doctor says "maybe" the B12 injections will help the
neuropathy and bring the levels up or "maybe not" if it's a result of
the RA I've been dealing with for years.  Hate to think of living this
way the rest of my life.  Oh well, no whining just hugs back and forth.

Ann
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:00 GMT
thank you.  and, here's yours . . .((((((((((((((((ann))))))))))))))  here's
hoping the b-12 injections do the trick for you.

kate
> Here's a cyber hug for you and please send it back because I'm down in
> the dumps too.  Doctor says "maybe" the B12 injections will help the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ann
melodymom - 23 Dec 2004 03:34 GMT
Group hugs?  I'm fighting off the boo-hoos for no particular reason.
{{{{{{{{Ann}}}}}}}}  And {{{{{{{{{Anyone who needs it}}}}}}}}}}}

Hope the shots work for you, Ann.

luv&stuff,
Denise

> Here's a cyber hug for you and please send it back because I'm down in
> the dumps too.  Doctor says "maybe" the B12 injections will help the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ann
Nann Bell - 23 Dec 2004 14:03 GMT
> Group hugs?  I'm fighting off the boo-hoos for no particular reason.
> {{{{{{{{Ann}}}}}}}}  And {{{{{{{{{Anyone who needs it}}}}}}}}}}}

((((((((((((Denise))))))))))))

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Nann Bell - 23 Dec 2004 03:44 GMT
(((((((((((((((((((Ann))))))))))))))))))))))

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

jb - 25 Dec 2004 05:44 GMT
Ann
Sorry to hear you arent dooing well either.
I am asking a favor. If the B12 shots help the neuropathy will you please
let me know. mine is killin me.
Just dont know what to do.  (((ANN)))
luv
janice

| Here's a cyber hug for you and please send it back because I'm down in
| the dumps too.  Doctor says "maybe" the B12 injections will help the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| Ann
melodymom - 23 Dec 2004 03:32 GMT
Come on over & get some real hugs.  Until you show up, though...
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{kate}}}}}}}}}}}}
luv&stuff,
Denise
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:53 GMT
> Come on over & get some real hugs.  Until you show up, though...
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{kate}}}}}}}}}}}}
> luv&stuff,
> Denise

thanks, kid.  i gotta get over there one of these days.  maybe next week or
so.

kate
melodymom - 23 Dec 2004 05:20 GMT
Keep calling me kid.  I'm loving it.  Really!  <G>
luv&stuff,
d'Kid

> thanks, kid.  i gotta get over there one of these days.  maybe next week or
> so.
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> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 07:50 GMT
> Keep calling me kid.  I'm loving it.  Really!  <G>
> luv&stuff,
> d'Kid

hee!  i guess there's more new yorker still in me than i knew.  i didn't
even realize i was saying "kid".<smile>  y'know, in some parts of this
country, people actually take offense at being addressed as "kid",
especially, in text where they cannot hear the softened vocal modulation.

kate

>> thanks, kid.  i gotta get over there one of these days.  maybe next week
>> or so.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 23 Dec 2004 15:06 GMT
{{{{Kate}}}}  I wish you could have a real hug, too, sugar!  Fly into BWI
and I'll meet you, give you a good long hug, and you can be back home for
dinner.

DeeTee
________________________________
DeeTee and Bob Taggart
http://www.marykay.com/dtaggart3
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8fwov/
________________________________

>> Kate that sure sounds like a confusing appointment.  I probably would go
>> along with it until your next appt. and see what happens then.  My first
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 23:18 GMT
> {{{{Kate}}}}  I wish you could have a real hug, too, sugar!  Fly into BWI
> and I'll meet you, give you a good long hug, and you can be back home for
> dinner.
>
> DeeTee

sweet.  and LOL!---my budget can't afford that hug, deetee and my arms would
tire trying to get there affordably<g>.  so, i'll content myself with your
cyberhug.

kate

> ________________________________
> DeeTee and Bob Taggart
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>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Joan Carter - 23 Dec 2004 03:26 GMT
>. We spoke only about Me
>except for a short remark she made about her baby when I saw her picture
>on the desk.  I really don't like the sound of your appointment all.

Same here. The appointment was for YOU, not some other person. This man needs
some education re dealing with patients, heck, with dealing with people!
---
Joan
d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 23:22 GMT
>>. We spoke only about Me
>>except for a short remark she made about her baby when I saw her picture
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> ---
> Joan

it was definitely a very strange appointment!  interesting, how my chiro
warned me that his "bedside manner" was not the best.  but she indicated
that was because he was too focused on diagnostics.  i sure didn't observe
that and wound up feeling that he didn't know much about me at all.

kate
DCHAM - 23 Dec 2004 02:28 GMT
kate, how miserable. i  fear he's going down the "all in your head" path. and
the fact that he talked about other patients with you, naming them or not, is
disgusting. i'm sorry you had such a disappointing appt. i know you were (sort
of ) hoping for some answers.
i have to admit, i missed the symptoms that led you to this guy. what are they?

diane
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 02:50 GMT
> kate, how miserable. i  fear he's going down the "all in your head" path.
> and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> diane

i'm thinking he is, too, kid.

well, on thinking about it, it's probably my fault, diane.  i don't know
why, but it often happens.  i don't have to open my mouth and many people
(even other doctors), i meet for the very first time, seem to do this kind
of thing---tell me stuff about themselves, i mean.  don't get me wrong.  i
don't mind that socially--- i prefer intimacy (not gossip for gossip's sake,
though), and not superficiality, in my relationships.

on his form for new patients, he wanted just one thing that brought me to
him listed, in one short sentence.  so, i wrote, "numbness---at edges of
face, scalp, down back of neck, across shoulders, mid-back, hands, from hip
to right knee." i ran out of room.

there are almost two pages of neck/back related symptoms, though, that i'm
sure he wouldn't have cared about.

kate
Caroline Marold - 26 Dec 2004 19:19 GMT
Here is a stupid but maybe not question...  What color
were you wearing. Anything in my exact eye color gets
everyone I meet, telling me their life history. That or
gray...  But if I wear something in a bright teal
[which makes my skin glow and eyes sparkle] they all
bow to me. Wearing red can piss other women off --
makes them feel threatened. Although it is great color
to wear for a good date. My mother and I carefully
choose our colors when we go to any meeting concerning
my brother. I rarely wear red in a confrontational
meeting as it makes the other party dig in their heels
before I even open my mouth.
So what do you have in your closet that makes you feel
great when you wear it. That ought to be what you wear
for your next meeting. I hate crappy doctors.
Duckie

> i'm thinking he is, too, kid.
>
> well, on thinking about it, it's probably my fault, diane.  i don't know
> why, but it often happens.  i don't have to open my mouth and many people
> (even other doctors), i meet for the very first time, seem to do this kind
> of thing---tell me stuff about themselves, i mean.  .....
d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 21:04 GMT
i think it was a "maybe not", duckie.  i believe i read somewhere that
somebody has created a science out of color and personality/interaction.

for that appointment, i had on a pastel pink sweatshirt (and blue jeans),
with embroidered hummingbird and a few small flowers on it.  when i walked
in on his dictation about my case, he was stating, into the dictaphone, how
i was appropriately dressed.   i found that bizarre (felt weird) to
overhear.  did you know that doctors comment about your attire in their case
notes about you?  weird, huh?  or is that just me to think that's odd?  i
have to wonder what "appropriate" means to him---sweatshirt and jeans? LOL

i live in comfortable jeans and would wear them to more formal settings if i
thought i could get away with it.LOL--i have, come to think of it!  bet i
was one of the first women to wear jeans to church back in the '60s-'70s,
when everybody else was dressed to the nines on sundays.  pastor's wife, who
was a close personal friend my age, never said a word about it.  i
definitely *know* she would have, had it been an issue to her or if she'd
heard it was to anybody else.  i loved her candor.

my favorite colors to wear, because they feel energizing, are more vibrant
tones, like rich teals, raspberry pink, royal purple and such (jewel tones,
i guess they are called), but i haven't found replacements for those
"too-worn-out to be seen in  public" wardrobe pieces that i enjoy.  the rest
of the colors are just colors to me.  i sooo hate shopping for clothes.
it's hilarious, but when i went to the gimp picnic, i just scooped up every
color polo shirt, of the same style in my size, i could find at target for
the trip.LOL

certain shades of red (especially coupled with black) are good colors for
me, but i don't wear red often enough to suit a couple of girlfriends
according to their comments, for some reason---odd, huh?  now you have me
wondering why they like seeing me in red and black combinations.

my eyes are brown, but i look hideously pale with any shade of brown (or
dark blue) next to my face.

hmmm . . . so, now you've got me wondering what pastel pink meant to this
doctor, aside from "she's ok to tell my problems to".  "safe"?

kate

> Here is a stupid but maybe not question...  What color were you wearing.
> Anything in my exact eye color gets everyone I meet, telling me their life
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> (even other doctors), i meet for the very first time, seem to do this
>> kind of thing---tell me stuff about themselves, i mean.  .....
Adelle - 26 Dec 2004 23:46 GMT
Just a quick note:

Inappropriate dress, whether for the weather, the situation (party attire at
the docs...), in wrong order (underwear above clothes or clothing backward),
etc. is a sign of neurological issues stemming in the frontal lobe. It's
part of what is called 'executive function.' Neuros do see it frequently in
treating dementia patients, brain injured, etc.

Adelle

>i think it was a "maybe not", duckie.  i believe i read somewhere that
>somebody has created a science out of color and personality/interaction.
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.822 / Virus Database: 560 - Release Date: 12/22/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 03:59 GMT
well, that makes sense (except for the retro madonna clones).  thanks,
adelle.   it just never occurred to me that appropriate attire was
incorporated into medical charts.

kate

> Just a quick note:
>
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>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.822 / Virus Database: 560 - Release Date: 12/22/2004
Jo Firey - 26 Dec 2004 23:54 GMT
I'm guessing that as a neurologist, more than a few of his patients have
cognitive problems along with their physical problems.  And that often it is
his job to sort out if a patient is suffering from something fixable such as
a tumor or not fixable such as Alzheimer's.  (Both of which can result in
inappropriate behavior)

I'm probably giving him way to much credit here, but he may have behaved the
way he did in part because he isn't used to having patients he can easily
converse with.

Jo
>i think it was a "maybe not", duckie.  i believe i read somewhere that
>somebody has created a science out of color and personality/interaction.
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.822 / Virus Database: 560 - Release Date: 12/22/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 04:29 GMT
now that you mention it, i imagine you are very correct, jo.  there really
are a lot of conditions that do exhibit cognitive problems.

i dunno.  you might not be giving this neuro too much credit.  you might be
right, at least that day, if this was any indication of the kind of patients
he has---i know one of his patients (in a wheelchair who obviously had some
kind of catabolizing condition) was somewhat combative out in the parking
lot.  i didn't realize he was, until after this patient asked me to help him
outside to his car and into it.  (i felt pity for his sweet little dog who
was incessantly being yelled at abusively.)  i tried for about 15 minutes of
my stabilizing his chair for him and holding his stuff, while he did a lot
of very boisterous ranting about the doctor not being able to do anything
for him and his angrily chucking things around the inside of his car (and my
soothing his little dog).  after about 15 min.  a couple of the medical
office staff came out to help the man into his car.  they just took over
from me, without asking and covertly waved me away.  i think i was being
rescued by them, or something.  wish i could have rescued the little dog
that was so obviously wanting a little kindness.

kate

> I'm guessing that as a neurologist, more than a few of his patients have
> cognitive problems along with their physical problems.  And that often it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Jo

>>i think it was a "maybe not", duckie.  i believe i read somewhere that
>>somebody has created a science out of color and personality/interaction.
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.822 / Virus Database: 560 - Release Date: 12/22/2004
Aim - 28 Dec 2004 20:25 GMT
Kate:

How's your insurance coverage?
I've got a few different people I could recommend, two Physical Therapists
who are EXCELLENT diagnosticians and can send you to an appropriate
specialist to have an official confirmation of diagnosis, one who is a D.O
(doctor of Osteopathy) who is FABULOUS!!! and a Neuro who specializes in
spine work who found a vertebral fracture in a friend of mine that a
year's worth of other specialists had missed.

Want some names?

and how about a *hug*

Aim

>> kate, how miserable. i  fear he's going down the "all in your head" path.
>> and
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004

Aim

respond to me at: aimnews at comcastdotnet
Kelly Cobb - 23 Dec 2004 02:49 GMT
Uh-oh, just from what you've said here I have decided that I don't like this
doctor very much. I hope he was just distracted today and that your next
appt. will see him being more involved with his current patient (you).

((((Kate))))

Kelly C.;o)

> egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
> coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
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> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Sonatabv - 23 Dec 2004 03:06 GMT
(((((kate)))))

After the 3rd, I'd consider taking my files and seeing another doctor.  Unless
this one really comes up to snuff!

Vickie B.
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT
> (((((kate)))))
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Vickie B.

i think you're right, too, vickie.  guess, we'll see.

kate
Adelle - 23 Dec 2004 05:27 GMT
>> (((((kate)))))
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> kate

(((((((((Kate))))))))

I second this advice. But then again, telling egotistical docs I'm going for
a second opinion is something I do - often.

I went to a really great neuro guy. Sounds nothing like him. Sounds exactly
like his partner, though.

Next appointment, hand him the list and say my PCP wants you to find out
what is happening and why. And given the medical history, aggregate of
symptoms and my PCP's concern, stress and emotional causes are not an
acceptable diagnosis.

It really helps if you can be precise and use exact terms. Vague terms like
'teeny bit' or 'a little' detract. Say a firm yes, and then give a
percentage guess for numbness. Doctors were inherently math and science
geeks in school. They prefer to quantify things instead of describe them.

Adelle
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 07:17 GMT
>>> (((((kate)))))
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Adelle

w0w!  thank you!  i sure wish i could drag you along with me to whip me into
shape for dealing with these doctors! <smile>

i can see that the doggone poetic side of me is just too huge a part of my
personality now, especially in view of what you suggested you've become
aware of in dealing with medicos.  and isn't that a shocking awareness for
me---when i consider that i *was* a math geek until my plans, during high
school, of becoming a physicist were thwarted by male proscriptions.  math
is/was (guess you do lose it if you don't use it) my dominant intelligence
quotient back then.

i'm going to be printing what you wrote here, adelle.  i believe it would be
also helpful to apply it to the two pages i didn't give him, for revision
purposes.  i think you've helped me more than you may even know.  thank you,
again.

kate
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT
thanks, sweetie.  i hope so, too.  well, he definitely did say he was having
a bad day.  too bad it was on my nickle though.

kate
> Uh-oh, just from what you've said here I have decided that I don't like
> this
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>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Caroline Marold - 26 Dec 2004 19:12 GMT
Yep, both Kelly and I know what a good neurologist is
and this guy does not fit into that category.
Duckie

> Uh-oh, just from what you've said here I have decided that I don't like this
> doctor very much. I hope he was just distracted today and that your next
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004

Signature

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d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 23:30 GMT
> Yep, both Kelly and I know what a good neurologist is and this guy does
> not fit into that category.
> Duckie

i wonder if i'd even recognize what a good neurologist was?  heck, i
probably can't even tell what a good any kind of doctor is.  i guess i
consider "good", a doctor who doesn't hurt me or who doesn't make me feel
like i'm separated various parts, instead of a whole unit.LOL
kate

>> Uh-oh, just from what you've said here I have decided that I don't like
>> this
[quoted text clipped - 100 lines]
>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Kelly Cobb - 27 Dec 2004 00:53 GMT
> > Yep, both Kelly and I know what a good neurologist is and this guy does
> > not fit into that category.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> like i'm separated various parts, instead of a whole unit.LOL
> kate

Kate,

You need to go with us to Rachel's next neuro. visit...you will then know
the difference between a good one and a bad one. Rachel's neuro. really
listens, takes his time, talks to Rachel and really wants to hear what she
thinks. We are always slated for an hour with the doctor and he never keeps
us waiting.

There are no such things as stupid questions and the doctor should never
make you feel like you're being silly or that your concerns are minor. Even
when he doesn't really know the answers, Dr. Roberts tries to explain things
to us the best he can. He also isn't afraid to say that he just doesn't know
what will happen next. We were hooked on him when we first met him in the
Pedi. ER at OHSU and are so glad to have him for our girl. Everybody should
feel this way about all their doctors.

Hugs,
Kelly C.;o)
Caroline Marold - 27 Dec 2004 17:58 GMT
My second neurologist was here in Mass as an adult. It
had been 20 years since my last brain wave so he wanted
another run. When the results came back, he enter the
exam room, sat down in front of me and gently took both
my hands -- leaned forward and told me that he was
sorry but there had been no change in the readings. He
was so gentle and kind -- first scared me because I
thought he had found something else wrong up there. No
change didn't surprise me as I have scarring from
delivery at birth. Never occurred to me that things
could change.
So that was my lovely Dr. Kott. His specialty is MS and
he still is working in the labs on research but has
retired from patient care.
You need someone who is warm and fuzzy. Not only did
you not get that but you got a lunatic who was
definitely not focused on you.
{{{{{{Kate}}}}}}
Duckie

>>Yep, both Kelly and I know what a good neurologist is and this guy does
>>not fit into that category.
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.822 / Virus Database: 560 - Release Date: 12/22/2004

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Joan Carter - 23 Dec 2004 03:23 GMT
> i never handed him the two pages of stuff i typed out from my post on asa
>and the few other things i remembered.  i figured, what's the use; like what
>would be the point of that exercise.  i figured, he's already on the scent
>of something else; might as well not confuse him with details.

That sounds like a terrible appointment, Kate. What a bummer. Wish it had gone
better.      ((((((((((((((((((((((Kate))))))))))))))))))))))))))
---
Joan
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:31 GMT
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:20:24 -0800, "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast.2net>
> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ---
> Joan

i wish it had, too.  thanks for the hugs, joan.
kate
Nann Bell - 23 Dec 2004 03:44 GMT
((((((((((((kate)))))))))))))  if he doesn't shape up on the 3rd, ditch him
and find someone who actually asks about you.  Some discussion of other stuff
is one thing, but the appointment should be more about what is going on with
you.  And don't settle for any of that "stress" stuff without having things
more thoroughly checked out.  PT tried to pull that one on me last August.  
Got my MRI results back and guess what - I had 5 bulging discs in my neck.  
It's certainly worth having it all checked out thoroughly, especially with
your history.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 03:56 GMT
> ((((((((((((kate)))))))))))))  if he doesn't shape up on the 3rd, ditch
> him
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> It's certainly worth having it all checked out thoroughly, especially with
> your history.

thanks, nann.  i will ditch him after the 3rd appmt. if this doesn't seem to
be going anywhere.  maybe i can talk my rd or pcp into xraying the rest of
my spine, instead of just my neck.  somehow, i don't feel very hopeful at
the moment, though.

kate
Janet R - 23 Dec 2004 04:42 GMT
Please do that Kate.  I insisted on having my x-rayed and they found
the DDD throughout my spine.  They insisted it was tendonitis!  Go
with your instincts.

Janet R

"d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast.2net> wrote in message

| thanks, nann.  i will ditch him after the 3rd appmt. if this doesn't seem to
| be going anywhere.  maybe i can talk my rd or pcp into xraying the rest of
| my spine, instead of just my neck.  somehow, i don't feel very hopeful at
| the moment, though.
|
| kate
d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 23:35 GMT
> Please do that Kate.  I insisted on having my x-rayed and they found
> the DDD throughout my spine.  They insisted it was tendonitis!  Go
> with your instincts.
>
> Janet R

thanks, janet.  i've got to call my rd's office anyway, because i've lost my
next appmt.'s reminder card.  need to find out the date and time.  i might
just ask then.

kate

> "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast.2net> wrote in message
> |
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> |
> | kate
Nann Bell - 23 Dec 2004 14:03 GMT
> thanks, nann.  i will ditch him after the 3rd appmt. if this doesn't seem to
> be going anywhere.  maybe i can talk my rd or pcp into xraying the rest of
> my spine, instead of just my neck.  somehow, i don't feel very hopeful at
> the moment, though.
>
> kate

does your chiro do Xrays?  I bet you could get her (am I remembering the
gender right?) to do it.  All the chiros I've seen had their own XRay
facilities in their office.  Did the work themselves, now that I think of it.
I'm a bit paranoid, I'll only go to chiros who insist on XRaying the problem
area before starting treatment.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

d'huit - 26 Dec 2004 23:37 GMT
>> thanks, nann.  i will ditch him after the 3rd appmt. if this doesn't seem
>> to
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> problem
> area before starting treatment.

she did do a series of xrays, the first time i saw her, some 8 years ago i
think.  hasn't done any since.  but there was all that hoopla about xray
machines in private offices not being properly maintained and calibrated.
don't know if that's why she hasn't since or not.

kate
Nann Bell - 27 Dec 2004 00:24 GMT
>> does your chiro do Xrays?  I bet you could get her (am I remembering the
>> gender right?) to do it.  All the chiros I've seen had their own XRay
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> kate

still, if the other docs won't order lumbar and thoracic spine XRays for you,
perhaps your chiro would order them if you explained and asked, judging by
what you've said about her.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 04:40 GMT
>>> does your chiro do Xrays?  I bet you could get her (am I remembering the
>>> gender right?) to do it.  All the chiros I've seen had their own XRay
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> perhaps your chiro would order them if you explained and asked, judging by
> what you've said about her.

i'm sure she would if i asked her to do that.    i also know she won't be
too happy about what happened at my first appmt with this neuro, cuz they
are friends who went to college together for awhile and then branched off in
the medical field.  i'm trying to avoid telling her about it, at this point.
gonna give him at least one more chance to redeem himself.  i'm just not
wanting to tell her he's not the greatest, until i know that for a fact,
based upon a little more experience with him.  everybody's entitled to a
baaaad day, once in awhile.

kate
Adelle - 27 Dec 2004 21:22 GMT
>>>> does your chiro do Xrays?  I bet you could get her (am I remembering
>>>> the
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> kate

Similar experience to the 2nd RD I'd tried. He was a good friend of my
uncle's from when they did their Rheumatology fellowships together. Really
tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. But even after several visits,
and trying to get him to answer my specific concerns, it turned out he was
more interested in the disease process than the people with the disease.

Try approaching this guy professional to professional. Funny, but I've found
some docs treat me differently when I'm in Mom attire (jeans and a rugby or
sweatshirt) than when I'm in 'office casual' attire (slacks and a sweater).
When I am more clear and precise, they are more attentive. When I am vague
or emotionally vacant (brain foggy), they are less interested. They may be
professionals, but they are people, too, with their own preconceptions; they
may not even be aware of them. Some idiots with god complexes deserve a
single strike and you're out rule but most others deserve a second strike.
Takes a lot of ambivalence for me to allow a third, though.

Adelle

Adelle
Nann Bell - 28 Dec 2004 14:29 GMT
Similar thoughts to mine.  Sometimes it is worth an attempt at learning how
to communicate with a particular doctor.  Their styles differ just as ours
do.  If you can figure out how to get in sync and the doc turns out to be a
treasure then, it's cool - assuming the communication style isn't one that
stresses you. (I didn't hit the right style with my new RD on the first
visit, in large part because I had to get up 90 minutes earlier than usual to
get there.  Scheduled appt. #2 so that won't be and issue.  But his
assessment and treatment plan was on target enough to make returning
appealing.)

Attire issues of course vary with where you live.  Around here, we have so
many folks in jeans and sweatshirts at Christmas church service that no one
would think of treating you as less intelligent on that basis.  And in
Florida, shorts and Tshirts are almost a uniform.........

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

> Similar experience to the 2nd RD I'd tried. He was a good friend of my
> uncle's from when they did their Rheumatology fellowships together. Really
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Adelle
Janet R - 23 Dec 2004 04:39 GMT
Oh shoot!  I was certainly hoping that visit would go more smoothly
for you.

If you feel uncomfortable....after the MRI don't be afraid of
switching docs.

BTW.....if Pain isn't a good reason for an MRI...what is?  Do you get
MRI's when  you feel good???? LOL
"Hey doc...my elbow is feeling GREAT...can we do an MRI???"

Janet R

| egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
| coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
| Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
| Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 05:07 GMT
> Oh shoot!  I was certainly hoping that visit would go more smoothly
> for you.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Janet R

thanks, janet.  yeah, i thought the same thing.  pretty insensitive answer
that made me feel like he just didn't want to bother with what was outside
his realm of interest.

i'm seriously thinking about calling my rd tomorrow morning and asking if
she'd  have the xrays done of my spine for me.  i'm maxed out, painwise, in
my upper spine.

kate

> | egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of
> caffeinated
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> | Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> | Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Norman - 23 Dec 2004 05:50 GMT
I once saw a specialist I didn't like once.
My PCP refferred me to him.
The doctor seemed to be quite smart, but had a BAD personality.
I decided that I really couldn't work with him, so I asked my PCP for a
referral to someone else.
The second doctor was a lot better, and I was able to actually discuss
things with him.

If didn't feel that you should show him the things you typed out, you
might have a problems working with him.

Consider finding another neurologist. The doctor should be trying to
accommodate YOU, not the other way around.
d'huit - 23 Dec 2004 07:27 GMT
>I once saw a specialist I didn't like once.
> My PCP refferred me to him.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Consider finding another neurologist. The doctor should be trying to
> accommodate YOU, not the other way around.

you offer interesting perspective here, norman.  but i am now beginning to
think that the reason i didn't give them to him was because i instinctively
knew those two pages weren't written for the correct audience, so to speak.
and you are correct and i needed to be reminded about relationship--he is,
in essence, my employee whom i pay.  thank you.

kate
debbie m. - 23 Dec 2004 15:44 GMT
((((((((((((((((((((((Kate)))))))))))))))))))

If you don't like him go to someone else.  There is no excuse for his
behavior.  Try to do some reference work.  Find out if there is a local
neuropahty support group and get their recommendation.  When I went to the
neurologist he put me through all the test and MRI and complete x-rays w/o
making me feel bad.

I'm sorry the experiecne was not good.  I hope things will get better.

debbie m.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/angels1/

> egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
> coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 04:44 GMT
> ((((((((((((((((((((((Kate)))))))))))))))))))
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> debbie m.

thanks, sweetie.  i have decided to give him another chance.  it really
could have been just a very bad day for him and he needed to commisserate
about it with somebody.  maybe, i was just handy.

kate

> http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/angels1/
>
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Kenny - 24 Dec 2004 01:51 GMT
I do hope you get to feeling better Kate. Some Doctors are so
overwhelmed you feel as if they don't even listen. Some don't.

~Kenny

>egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
>coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 04:47 GMT
>I do hope you get to feeling better Kate. Some Doctors are so
> overwhelmed you feel as if they don't even listen. Some don't.
>
> ~Kenny

thanks, kenny.  doesn't it seem like there should be some safe limit on how
large a practice can become, before it takes over every aspect a doctor's
life?  i mean it was the guy's birthday and it was an horrible day,
according to him.

kate

>>egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
>>coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
jb - 25 Dec 2004 05:36 GMT
Kate
What a mess. Sounds like he had too many fires to stir at one time.  He
should have took more time and concern with you. I hope he will follow
through and get some answers for you. please if you arent satsified with his
diagnosis, go see somesone else.  promise???
take care and have a great day
luv
janice

| egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
| coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
| Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
| Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 05:00 GMT
> Kate
> What a mess. Sounds like he had too many fires to stir at one time.  He
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> luv
> janice

i think so, too.  i "promise", auntie janice.<smiling, cuz asking for that
promise was way sweet of you, much like my aunt would have.>  thank you.

kate

> | egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
> | coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> | Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> | Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Caroline Marold - 26 Dec 2004 19:10 GMT
Boy, that nut sounds just like my last RD. Call your
PCP in the interim and tell him what you think of this guy.
Personally, I don't think much.
BTW, anyone in the area you could take with you the
next time. Sounds to me you need a bitch to go with
you. If I lived closer, I would be happy to apply for
the position. ;)
Duckie

> egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
> coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004

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d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 05:24 GMT
> Boy, that nut sounds just like my last RD. Call your PCP in the interim
> and tell him what you think of this guy.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> apply for the position. ;)
> Duckie

you think he's a nut!?!?!  whew!  i almost thought i was the nutty one in
this case, but everybody else, so far on asa, seems to feel he wasn't quite
in tune with the program.  at first, i thought, maybe neurologists just do
things differently than most other doctors.

you don't think i should give him another chance, just in case he really is
a good neuro and simply had a bad day?  i hate complaining to doctors about
other doctors, duckie (until i know what i'm really talking about, but he
obviously was distracted).  i wind up feeling like i'm the bad guy for being
negative about one of their colleagues or like they'll think i'm just a
neurotic complainer.

boy!  i DO wish you lived closer, duckie!  i need somebody to teach me the
ropes on how to deal with these medicos---face to face.  all i've learned,
because of having had so many bad experiences, was how to avoid bad doctors
whenever i could  (i'm sooo good at dodging them, or making up excuses and
pushing-up/rescheduling their appointments until it's almost the next
decade, or until they give up on me).

i think i can do "bitch" in writing, but i don't think i'm intelligently
assertive enough for face to face.  i just don't say what i'm really
thinking or feeling, in these kinds of situations.  those words just won't
come out.  i know, that sounds goofy.

kate

>> egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
>> coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
Janet R - 27 Dec 2004 16:07 GMT
Kate,
My mom went to her first Neuro appt last Tuesday.  This doctor did a
number of 'hands-on" test and ordered an MRI right off the bat.  He
questioned her about all types of things and symptoms....did bloodwork
and x-rays.

The MRI showed that she has been having small strokes (undetectable to
her) and probably needs to have her carotid arteries "cleaned
out"...."roto-rootered"....you know what I mean.

My point is that he was very professional and ordered an MRI even
though she isn't in pain...her only symptom was dizziness!

Janet R

"d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast.2net> wrote in message
<snipped>

| you think he's a nut!?!?!  whew!  i almost thought i was the nutty one in
| this case, but everybody else, so far on asa, seems to feel he wasn't quite
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
|
| kate
Squirrely - 26 Dec 2004 20:24 GMT
Kate,

Oh I hope you do better with him next time and if you don't change drs
please. I hope things work out well for you and you get the answers and
treatement you need.

Ann and Denise, you are in my thoughts and I hope you get back out of the
dumps. Sending lots of hugs and TLC for all of you.

Signature

Love and hugs to all
Good thoughts coming your way too.

Squirrely Jo

> egads!  i get there.  i'm waaay early.  i have two cups of caffeinated
> coffee in the waiting room (i react badly to caffeine, btw, makes me
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
d'huit - 27 Dec 2004 05:25 GMT
thanks, aj.  i hope so, too.  i will change docs, if he doesn't show me
anything worth staying around for.

kate
> Kate,
>
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>> Version: 6.0.819 / Virus Database: 557 - Release Date: 12/20/2004
 
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