Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / January 2005
hip update & bone question
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Kandi - 05 Dec 2004 22:12 GMT i haven't been on line a lot lately so i haven't been here much, but when i am on line, i have been lurking. hip is still painful (after over a year) - stairs are horribly painful & if i have to carry anything - forget it...(two flights of stairs at home with no elevator) - but for those of you who remember, i no longer have 3 flights of stairs at work - the company moved to a one story building and i am THRILLED about that... - but any way - i saw the ortho doc on friday - and he says (or more, the xrays say) the fracture is not healing - about 1/2 of it has, but the other half has not. other than the long term steroid use (15+years) he can't think of any reason it is not healing - even with the steroid use, it should have healed after over a year....we are going to try a bone stimulator - he admits it may not help because of where the fracture is located, but is willing to try it because it is not healing on its own...i am still taking vicoden, but i can't take it when i am at work - so motrin 800's at work....but neither really get rid of the pain all together - he tells me the weather is obviously affecting me too..other than moving (not an option) there is not much i can do about that.....the comp case drags - the doc sent the letter that was supposed to go to the lawyer to the insurance company and i did not figure that one out until i saw him on friday - but of course the doc didn't put the "percentage loss of use" on the form, so i have to get that added - more hoops to jump thru - although he verbally told me 50 % loss of use of the hip - that is a pretty high number, isn't it?? he also told me to use the cane thru the winter - both for reducing the pressure on my hip & for safety reasons - not sure how safe i will be - i have enough trouble walking on my own (that is how i got into this mess to begin with) and now he wants me to carry something??? :) have any of you used a bone stimulator??? i only asked a few questions because i was so upset at the office - i am waiting for the "bone stimulator guy" to call me to set up an appt..it sounds painful, but the doc assures me it is not.....i get the gist of it, but am concerned about where the fracture is - how is it actually going to help me??? i honestly don't know how much more of this pain i can take. along with the rest of the crap going on in my personal life, i just feel sometimes like walls are closing in on me....the whole comp case thing is driving me crazy, i don't know how to do this & that - didn't know i had to get pre-approval for my CT scan - so they are billing me demanding money i just don't have - i haven't been able to get my humira in about 6 months now - so i haven't been able to taper the steroids - which has been affecting my sugar level - i am also a diabetic - so i feel like there is a vicious cycle going here & i can't stop it....
any way - enough whining, sorry - but i am wondering about the bone stimulator - can any of you tell me more about it???
kandi
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 05 Dec 2004 22:41 GMT Hi Kandi,
I have never used a bone stimulator (never broke anything - touch wood), so I checked a quick search. I did find this:
****A bone stimulator is a small box, about the size of a package of cigarettes. It is usually worn at the waist. It has two wires leading from, which run down inside the pants leg. A sticky pad is applied to the skin above and below the fracture site and the wires are attached to the sticky pads.
There is no sensation of any sort. The EBI bone stimulator sets up an electrical field about the fracture site. It does not vibrate or cause any electrical sensation. ****
Keep in mind, this was from an unmoderated board, and the poster signs off as Dr. B...
Here's hoping that you find better information from someone else here (they are much wiser than I). I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Smokie Darling (Annie)
firechief - 06 Dec 2004 00:22 GMT Annie wrote:
> I have never used a bone stimulator (never broke anything - touch > wood), so I checked a quick search. I did find this: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the skin above and below the fracture site and the wires are attached > to the sticky pads. Things of this nature require FDA approval and doctor's Rx.
> Keep in mind, this was from an unmoderated board, and the poster > signs off as Dr. B... Must be Dr. Bombay from "Bewitched."
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 06 Dec 2004 00:40 GMT Firechief,
Does that mean that Kandi's doctor can't prescribe it, or does the FDA have to approve every Rx? I'm just confused (which I'm sure you'll notice is a continuing thing with me).
Smokie Darling (Annie)
firechief - 06 Dec 2004 01:01 GMT Annie wrote:
> Does that mean that Kandi's doctor can't prescribe it, or does > the FDA have to approve every Rx? I'm just confused (which I'm > sure you'll notice is a continuing thing with me). Except for herbals/vitamins, the FDA has to approve everything that goes into or on our bodies. This applies to everything that did not exist at the time the FDA was created (aspirin, corn, peas, meats, even water - though the EPA does that).
Even consmetics -- lipstick, eyebrow liner, etc., must be tested and approved. You'll notice on many packages the statement in the list of ingredients "FDA Yellow #something" or "FDA Red #something else.)
And that is why the FDA would have to approve GE foods before they could be sold in the USA. Explains why there was a recall of Taco Bell brand taco shells from Kraft. Some eco-freak group discovered they were made with GE corn from Mexico.
Most work of the FDA I appreciate, but when a bag of peanuts has to contain the notice "PROCESSED IN A PLANT THAT PROCESSES PEANUTS," that is really carrying it too far.
Now if a drug or device is approved for a specific purpose, a doctor can prescribe it "off-label" for another reason/use. However, the drug's or device's manufacture cannot toot its horn and advertise or say to doctors, "this also works for disease xyz."
That is one reason some drug companies are being dragged over the coals at this moment. Their reps go to doctor's office with free samples and proclaim how xyz, an FDA-approved drug for heart problems, also works good for ingrown toenail/arthritis/ cancer/you-name-it.
Some companies are being questioned re: their ads for some arthritis drugs (and Viagra).
Joan Carter - 06 Dec 2004 03:18 GMT > Must be Dr. Bombay from "Bewitched." ROFL. I hadn't heard that name for years, Firechief. Thanks for a trip down memory lane. :-) --- Joan
debbie m. - 05 Dec 2004 23:24 GMT Kandi,
Why don't they consider hip replacement? I don't know why they didn't do something different from the very beginning. They operated on my dad the very night he broke his hip and two years later he had to have it replaced. I just don't understand how they can watch you suffer.
I think if you are even paying a little bit, even $5 a month I don't know what they can do. I'm so sorry things have been so rough for you. I've been keeping up with you from the time you broke your hip. I wish you had better news and I hope the new year will be a better one for you.
debbie m. http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/angels1/
> i haven't been on line a lot lately so i haven't been here much, but > when i am on line, i have been lurking. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > kandi Kandi - 06 Dec 2004 00:53 GMT i was not a candidate for hip surgery at the time of the accident because it took 11 days before the fracture was found. i actually walked around on it for 11 days...looking back, i am not sure how i did it...but apparently it started to heal & since i was walking they opted against any kind of surgery. now, the doc says i am just not a good candidate for surgery with my other complications (diabetes & prednisone use) it would be a very difficult healing process - but i got the distinct impression that surgery could be a last resort - if it doesnt heal itself with the bone stimulator and more time....but - how much pain do i endure??? i have trusted this doc since day one - if he says more time, then unfortunately, i just have to give it more time. it is not often i can say that i trust in someone 100 %, but in this case i do - he is willing to give me what ever i need to be comfortable - until such time as the bone heals itself...i don't like it, but the thought of a surgery scares me to death.... i guess i am scared no matter what i do - if i just wait it out, how much pain will i be in?? if i have surgery, how much pain will i be in???...i am just scared either way....it scares me that i may have to deal with this the rest of my life....i feel like i have no way to turn...no options left.... i just have to "deal with it"?????
kandi
d'huit - 06 Dec 2004 08:37 GMT >i was not a candidate for hip surgery at the time of the accident > because it took 11 days before the fracture was found. i actually walked [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > kandi ((((((((((((((kandi))))))))))) you ARE going to heal, hon, though maybe not as quickly as you hope to. you DO have options, kandi.
i find it very strange, the way your situation has been handled by your ortho and your lawyer, because my experience was so different. my hip was pinned and my girlfriend (who had been in a different wreck, around the same time) was in a spika cast for hers, which, btw, i wouldn't wish on anybody.
surgery is indicated, when surgery is indicated, depending upon the ortho. i they operate on diabetics all the time, kandi. i think your ortho is just hoping you will knit before he deems it necessary. i have to ask you---is your doctor an orthopod, or an orthopaedic surgeon? an orthopod, who is not a surgeon, might tend to delay surgery as long as possible.
i'm thinking that if some new form of imobilization is not an option, and surgery is not an option for you, then you should, at the very least, be referred, by your ortho, to a pain management clinic to help you cope with all this pain. and it should be included/covered in/by your third party liability claim, as should that ct scan.
your lawyer should be handling all the medical expenses of your case, for you, kandi. you shouldn't have to deal with them at all. that's why you hired him, to handle all this stuff for you. what i'm saying is that your attorney should be doing more than he appears to be doing for you, hon.
those medical bills get "paid out of the settlement". send your lawyer that damn ct scan bill, and let him handle it. then, if you get billed again, refer them to your lawyer and let him deal with them and explain what's going on. didn't i mention this before to you? (i feel like i'm having deja vu, here) and if i didn't mention it, i am soooo sorry that i neglected to do that for you, hon.
kate
Kandi - 06 Dec 2004 23:35 GMT i did talk with the lawyer & he says not to worry about the ct bill - will add it to the settlement - notified the doc's office about the letter he needs to send to the lawyer - so it is just a matter of time - time i just don't have - i was on the brink of bankruptcy - but stopped it because i can't afford it - ironic, huh?? but i want to pay the few creditors i do have and a settlement would come in very handy - just stressed about the whole bankruptcy/comp thing - that they were happening at the same time....cant handle much more stress...especially at the holidays - (i have a hard time with holidays) & have been stressed about that too!!!
i cant thank this group enough for thinking about me & supporting me - for those of you who remember, most of my family is not very supportive - so this group has been my sole support for a while now...thank you for the kind words & advice - i will try to keep up around here...:) kandi
Nann Bell - 07 Dec 2004 22:01 GMT ((((((((((kandi)))))))))) I wish I had some good advice about how to resolve all of this, but you area already doing everything I can think of. So, I'll send you hugs and send out some prayers that everything get resolved so that you have the deserved settlement and your hip heals. Maybe the stimulator will be just the extra "oomph" needed for healing.
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
Kandi - 06 Dec 2004 23:42 GMT to be 100 % honest i am not sure if he is a orthopod or an orthopedic surgeon - when he refered me to the trauma specialist to determine if surgery was indicated, he told me he hasnt done my type of surgery in years......does that mean he is an orthopod???? geesh, i guess this is information i should know....
Gwen Love - 05 Dec 2004 23:53 GMT Kandi, I don't have any info about the stimulator, but having gone through the pain before my THR I can sympathize with the continuing pain you are having. I do pary you can get some relief very soon. Gwen
> i haven't been on line a lot lately so i haven't been here much, but > when i am on line, i have been lurking. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > kandi spodosaurus - 06 Dec 2004 01:07 GMT Hi Kandi,
I'm wondering if it's possible for you to have a bone scan (cheaper than an MRI) to exclude osteonecrosis as the reason the fracture hasn't fully healed?
Ari
 Signature spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. To jump to the end of the story, as a result of this I need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
d'huit - 06 Dec 2004 07:44 GMT > Hi Kandi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ari i was thinking the very same thing, ari.
kate
Kandi - 06 Dec 2004 23:39 GMT is a bone scan the same as a dexa scan??? i recently had a dexa scan done - and it said i have a high fracture risk for my right hip (duh!!!) and my neck - now that is scary...i had the CT scan - that would not show osteonecrosis???
i will ask my doc about the osteonecrosis....he has never mentioned it... i had a horrible incident with an MRI - and i will never have one again - even if it is an open one.....
kandi
spodosaurus - 07 Dec 2004 06:15 GMT > is a bone scan the same as a dexa scan??? No. A bone scan uses a radio-isotope to measure measure metabolic activity involved in bone repair and inflamation. With osteonecrosis, there will be black spots on the scan where the bone is dead. A dexa scan measures bone mineral density only.
i recently had a dexa scan
> done - and it said i have a high fracture risk for my right hip (duh!!!) > and my neck - now that is scary...i had the CT scan - that would not > show osteonecrosis??? No it wouldn't. Only a bone scan or an MRI would show osteonecrosis (also known as avascular necrosis). Even after the cheaper bone scan, and MRI is often done to confirm the diagnosis, as a form of severe osteoporosis looks virtually the same as osteonecrosis on a bone scan.
> i will ask my doc about the osteonecrosis....he has never mentioned > it... > i had a horrible incident with an MRI - and i will never have one again > - even if it is an open one..... Unfortunately you may have to have an MRI as the treatment, where possible, is different for the two disorders that look the same on a bone scan.
 Signature spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. To jump to the end of the story, as a result of this I need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
Alex Barna - 06 Dec 2004 16:50 GMT Hi Kandi,
> have any of you used a bone stimulator??? i only asked a few questions > because i was so upset at the office - i am waiting for the "bone > stimulator guy" to call me to set up an appt..it sounds painful, but the > doc assures me it is not.....i get the gist of it, but am concerned > about where the fracture is - how is it actually going to help me??? My son had electro bone growth stimulation when he blew out both his hips while running in high school track. They pinned his hips back together then applied the stimulation to aid in healing. He remembers it felt like just a little tingle in his hips.
Electrical bone growth stimulation has been used & approved by the FDA for years. It is an entirely painless way to stimulate slow healing bone to grow by producing a small electrical field around the injured area.
> any way - enough whining, sorry - but i am wondering about the bone > stimulator - can any of you tell me more about it??? I can tell you that it is a device used in sports medicine to help athletes to heal faster from bone injuries.
> kandi Sending Good Thoughts, {{{Kandi}}} GramPaHugs, Alex,
-- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. No endorsement is implied or intended. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii">AOL Click</a> * <a href="http://grampahugs.is-a-geek.org/">AOL Click</a> ****************************************************
Squirrely - 06 Dec 2004 20:04 GMT Kandi,
I don't have any answers for you but wanted you to know I am thinking of you and have been. I was wondering what was going on with you.
I am glad you did make it back here and share with us so that we know how to direct our prayers and thoughts to you.
Wishing you the best outcome with this. I hope the stimilator will be the answer and that your pain will cease.
 Signature Love and hugs to all Good thoughts coming your way too.
Squirrely Jo
> i haven't been on line a lot lately so i haven't been here much, but > when i am on line, i have been lurking. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > kandi yjacket - 20 Jan 2005 20:17 GMT Kandi,
I have used an EBI Bone Growth Stimulator system. I will give you the facts of my injury, my initial prognosis, and the eventual outcome. Details of the EBI system will be included.
Basically, I fell approximately 40 feet while doing something dumb. My daughter and I were cleaning up at the gymnastics facility where she practices/competes when she asked me if I could 'climb the rope and ring the bell at the top'. The rope is obviously there as a conditioning tool for the gymnasts and it hangs slightly above a ten foot deep landing area (pit) that is filled to the top with foam. The pit is basically square with 15 foot sides and is primarily used by the gymnasts to safely land new/difficult moves until they are confident and comfortable trying it on the 'real' landing areas. To make a long story short, I climbed the rope fairly quickly and rang the bell. Then...I looked down! All I could think about was how bad the blisters would be on my hand's from sliding down the rope. After a minute or so my daughter said 'just let go and fall into the pit...the girls do it all of the time'. So...without giving her suggestion too much thought I let go. The fall was much quicker than I was prepared for and I basically hit the pit straight as a pencil. Being the bullet I turned myself into, I was not even slowed down by the foam and hit with my right foot...which quickly rolled to the outside. Since I was unemployed at the time and had no insurance, my daughter (10 yrs old at the time) said 'we'd better not tell mommy what really happened' since we were struggling a bit financially. So we told her a little white lie, saying that I rolled/sprained my ankle while stepping into the soft 'resi' mat. For all I knew, the injury was just that...a severely sprained ankle...especially since I (somehow) was able to limp my way out of the gym.
X-rays the following day did not show anything broken ( the reason being, the bone that was broken was my talus bone-which sits in the middle of the ankle - hidden in this case by the inside and outside bones [tibia/fibula] when taking side view x-ray's). Since it was literally broken right down the middle vertically, a front view x-ray did not show the break. The doctors treated it as a severe sprain, and knowing I had no health insurance, they did not feel it was necessary to schedule an MRI. As time went by I began trying to rehabilitate the ankle via intense physical therapy...and it did nothing but hurt...immensely!!
I found some consulting work as a Project Mgr at a Nuclear Plant in Missouri (3 months) and Vermont (3 months). Let me tell you, when you work in a nuc plant, you do a 'LOT' of walking, climbing, etc... I assumed the constant popping sound my ankle was making was caused by ligaments, that were still loose in the ankle, sliding over the bone. Twenty steps at a time was about all I could take prior to stopping in severe pain, resting for a bit, and then continuing on.
Following those six months of work, and still having major issues with the ankle pain, I had accumulated enough cash to get an MRI done to take a closer look. The MRI was as clear as day. The Talus bone was fractured down the middle (again vertically) and slightly displaced from all of the walking I did. Additionally, the bone obviously attempted to heal numerous times over the previous six months...you could actually see the calcium growth in several places on the broken portion of the bone. All of the popping sounds I was hearing while walking on the ankle was not caused by loose ligaments...it was the bone re-breaking, over and over, after it would 'attempt' to heal. Unfortunately, I am now a case study for conferences and included in some sort of teaching manual for orthopedic ankle specialists. Basically, the doctors could not believe that I actually walked with this fracture for six months, and that although the broken bone was slightly displaced, it was still in a position that gave them options to possibly fix the break. After the team of Doctors consulted with ankle specialists throughout the U.S., the decision was made to place two screws into the talus bone pieces and pull them together to ensure alignment. The prognosis they provided, however, was not too great. Since the inside of both pieces of bone had calcified over numerous times while it was trying to heal on it's own, the likelyhood of the bones fusing after the surgery was very low. Additionally, the talus bone is notorious for having a small blood supply that actually enters from the bottom of the bone. It's common for the blood supply to be cut off from the bone completely...or for the supply not to cross over the healed union to the rest of the bone. In either case, the loss of blood supply eventually causes the bone to 'die' and eventually collapse. Ankle fusion is often performed at this time with some type of 'replacement' bone graft - or 'artificial' joint that freezes the ankle movement in several ways. I was told that I would likely require a cane to get around once the surgery had healed and to be prepared for chronic pain - also to accept the reality that the bone may eventually collapse and require fusion.
The surgery was performed and I was placed in a cast that came up to my knee. I had very strict instructions from the Dr. to 'not' touch the cast on the ground or push off of anything with my right leg/ankle for 12 weeks. I followed his instructions and, while speaking to a Physicians Assistant in Pennsylvania (Bob - best friend - worked for a sports orthopedic firm)...Bob asked me if the doctors had prescribed an EBI Bone Growth Stimulator for me to use. I had no clue what he was referring to, but he said the the EBI rep in his area 'owed him a favor' and that he could likely get me hooked up with a unit. At the time, a majority of insurance agencies were not considering the use of this device as a cost effective means for it's purpose and had doubts about its abilities. Therefore, if a patient (or Dr.) wanted to utilize the the device...it had to come out of their own pockets (and it is/was pretty expensive). Bob came through with his promise and had his rep call the local rep where I am located and I was able to get an EBI BS within a few days. My Doctors were pleased that I would be using the device...indicating that since insurance does not cover the devices, they are usually beyond the means of most patients and are generally not considered.
The device basically has an bendable oval shaped ring, roughly an inch wide and covered with fabric (comfortable enough to wear directly on your skin) that conforms to the area you need to be 'stimulated' and straps with velcro to hold it in place. This 'ring' is attached to a controller unit that is battery operated. The battery/controller comes with a 120V charger. The unit also comes with a pouch that attaches to a provided belt and/or comes with a belt clip. The size of the controller is roughly 1.5 inches thick, 3 inches wide, and 4.5 inches tall. It's very easy to use...especially since an EBI rep typically delivers the unit and explains everything. I wore the device a minimum of 8 hours/day (I believe) ...the more the better (again, I'm sure the more hours the better...but it may be to a maximum of 10hrs/day). Basically, the controller unit sends out an electromagnetic field that produces a small electrical current, very similar to what the body does naturally to signal the bone to begin healing in the first few weeks after a fracture. As far as I can recall, there is nothing to feel while the unit is running...even if there was any amount of vibration it was not something that I recall. I wore the unit over my cast for 12 weeks (the signal easily penetrates the cast) and then directly on the ankle when I began rehab. One more item of note...you can wear it such that it is not real visible. For a hip, depending on the location of the break, I'd imagine you'd have to wear pants that provided a little extra room in the waist to thigh area (sweat pants, baggy pants - if you're into that style,...) if you wanted to conceal the coil ring inside your clothes. However, the coil ring will easily send it's signal through your clothes if worn on the outside. One last item to help you understand how the stimulator works - at least this is the way it was explained to me:
The small electrical current that reaches the bone emulates the signal your body naturally produces during the first few weeks after a fracture occurs and begins the healing process. From what I understand, this small current actually creates very small micro-tears on the bone that actually force the body's natural reaction to send in the troops to heal the bone.This process continues while using the stimulator and aids the fusion of the fractured bone.
Ok, now a bit more about the outcome of my ankle. After removing the cast @ 12 weeks, an x-ray was taken (at the proper angle to see the talus bone...I might add) and the Doctors were absolutely shocked. The bone had completely healed and the two screws did not move at all (in other words, the bone did not shift any during healing - which would have created a major issue since this bone 'is' the inner joint of the ankle and it's spacing in respect to the other bones in the ankle is critical). The bone also, quite clearly, had retained the blood supply and it provided blood to 'both' sides of the bone - through the fracture site.
That's all I'll share here...because the story actually continues on with miraculous success, unprecedented healing for that type of Talus injury, and...instead of walking with continuous joint pain and a cane...I can actually play tennis and have no limitations. I believe, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the bone stimulator significantly helped the fracture heal (along with a certain SOMEBODY from above).
Oh, by the way, my daughter and I came clean to my wife on what really happened a few weeks after feeling horrible about our little white lie. My wife understood.
Hope this helps...and sorry it's so long!!!
debbie m. - 22 Jan 2005 14:28 GMT what a wonderful story!
debbie m. http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/angels1/
> Kandi, > [quoted text clipped - 161 lines] > > Hope this helps...and sorry it's so long!!!
|
|
|