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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / October 2004Politics OUT
Of course, I'm aware of the repercussions of the next election, but unless the politics of promises of each parties has a direct impact on our main worries, please let stick to the medical aspect of our disieases. It's hard enough to find ways to cure our medical problems, lets try to keep the political aspect our of it whenever possible Claude i second the motion audie ~~~~Of course, I'm aware of the repercussions of the next election, but unless the politics of promises of each parties has a direct impact on our main worries, please let stick to the medical aspect of our disieases. It's hard enough to find ways to cure our medical problems, lets try to keep the political aspect our of it whenever possible ~~~~Claude ROFL!!! I told you guys they existed - a 'medical info only' poster! Pull the stick out of your butt, Claude! The only rule here is no spamming/advertising. You can bitch about people's posts all you want but you can't tell them what they can post. -bg- Kitty > Of course, I'm aware of the repercussions of the next election, but unless > the politics of promises of each parties has a direct impact on our main [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Claude Well said but there are times when actual laws and to be laws needs to be talked about Harv Actually Kitty, We all decided while you were gone to keep politics out of the newsgroup-If we are changing that agreement, I will certainly have some opinions to post- Melinda ~~~~~Actually Kitty, We all decided while you were gone to keep politics out of the newsgroup-If we are changing that agreement, I will certainly have some opinions to post- ~~~~~Melinda Actually Melinda, I say go for it if it makes you feel better! It wasn't me that brought it up. It was the resident troll. You can make rules to your hearts content, but they aren't enforceable without a charter to back them up and I'm giving up none of my rights to free speech. It's the stinker in me LOL!!! -bg- Kitty >~~~~~Actually Kitty, >We all decided while you were gone to keep politics out of the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Kitty Ketty, your such a naughty girl!!!!! Guess that's what everybody loves about you. BEG ~Kenny http://usslowrydd-770.com ~~~~Ketty, your such a naughty girl!!!!! Guess that's what everybody loves about you. BEG ~~~~Kenny ...hehehehe.... >You can make rules to your hearts >content, but they aren't enforceable without a charter to back them up >and I'm giving up none of my rights to free speech. It's the stinker in >me LOL!!! \O/ I kinda agree with it. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp Could someone please point me to the ASA charter? I would love to read it. melinda > Could someone please point me to the ASA charter? I would love to read > it. > > melinda None,,,,, This is a alt. newsgroup and there is no charter but it is a support group and some internet servers will support the "name" of the newsgroup. Harv Thay's exactly my point, Harv. There was a guy who I think was named barry who definitively posted re: ASA charter sometime in either 98 or maybe 97 (I'll google it later when I get the time). We created as a group, an ASA that didn't want the kind of spam or sales prevalent on other newsgroups. I used to post in the misc. group but found it useless for info or friendship because of the constant spam. In the culture of this group, we have managed to chase away most of the spammers and salespersons. We also put the stops on their free speech in doing so. In 2000, we as a group discussed at length not discussing partisan politics on ASA. It made the group a much more pleasant place to get support and info. As you all know, I probably have political leanings much more leftist than liberal and yet I have consistently reminded special searcher that this was not the place to bring her political agenda BECAUSE WE AS A GROUP AGREED THAT WAS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO KEEP THINGS FRIENDLY AND ON TOPIC IN A BIPARTISAN GROUP. I can and do talk politics constantly but I don't do it here. If we want to change that, let's go fot it. There are some very articulate people here who have been exercising good impulse control for the last four years. However, I am not going to change that on Kitty's say so. Get me a majority opinion or a consensus opinion and I'm good to go. However, free speech doesn't wash as a argument. We acvtively try to limit the free speech of people who post not just spam or sales pitches, but also people like searcher and Tom who are just so relentless and annoying with their one track posts, by reporting them. So either way is fine with me but again this is a group and we have no leader or decision maker so let's get a group vote. Melinda > Thay's exactly my point, Harv. There was a guy who I think was named > barry who [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > because of > the constant spam. I have said what I think and will read what others think. I have also said what I will do and not do. Like Kitty,,,, Your group vote will not change what I have said or will do. IMO,,,, politics will ruin this newsgroup BUT it would let you get rid of your need to push your thoughts on someone else and it does explain a great many things. Harv >it does explain a >great many things. >Harv It sure does, it explains why America is so great and powerful... http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp And you have been reported to AOL not for what you say but for the sites at the bottom of your post. Harv > >it does explain a >>great many things. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp melinda--i'm trying to think of how to vote on the politics question. i am probably in your camp or close to it, and wow, do i have a lot to say. i think there are many of us here who could have a civil discussion, but then there are those who will quickly drag it into the sewer. even more worrisome to me, though, is that there are people here i've come to care deeply about and i know they are 180 degrees opposed to my political stance. i don't want to argue with them or risk our friendships. one of the coolest things about asa, in my opinion, has been getting to know and care about people who think so differently from the way i do. (hi gwen :-) ). i don't want to tamper with that. so my answer to "should we allow political discussions" is an unequivocal. . . "i don't know." hugs, diane Hi Diane! Since I was I guess the first to post a political item and got called on it, I'll enter this discussion. I agreed not to post anything else political, and now I think it is a good idea. So my vote would be to keep politics to ourselves, not on the NG. Gwen > melinda--i'm trying to think of how to vote on the politics question. i am > probably in your camp or close to it, and wow, do i have a lot to say. i think [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > diane >Hi Diane! Since I was I guess the first to post a political item and got >called on it, I'll enter this discussion. I agreed not to post anything >else political, and now I think it is a good idea. So my vote would be to >keep politics to ourselves, not on the NG. >Gwen That's a good excuse for those that have children. When your child develops depression or seizures or arthritis; let alone heart, liver or kidney problems from a medication. You can tell the child, us not talking about political issues was more important than your health... I just heard an ad about registration for civil service, and G.W.Bush is still President. I have not heard this ad in a few years, something must be up... Anyways, I heard there's a T - shirt that says something like "Draft the beer not me".... http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp I'm only saying this once. Those awesome folks fighting in the war are grown adults, not children, that made a choice to defend their country. My son has been preparing for entering the Officer Corp of the US Army from a very young age. He wants to be a Ranger. Do I worry...you BET YOUR a.s. Would I try to dissuade him ...NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. If the lazy teenagers (you know, the apathetic, rebellious, who give a sh.t attitude) don't want to defend this country when they become adults...then let them live somewhere else. North Korea or Iran may be a great place for them. They better be sure to bring their playstation with them ! My 2 cents! Janet R | That's a good excuse for those that have children. When your child develops | depression or seizures or arthritis; let alone heart, liver or kidney problems [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | Anyways, I heard there's a T - shirt that says something like "Draft the beer | not me".... ~~~~I'm only saying this once. Those awesome folks fighting in the war are grown adults, not children, that made a choice to defend their country. My son has been preparing for entering the Officer Corp of the US Army from a very young age. He wants to be a Ranger. Do I worry...you BET YOUR a.s. Would I try to dissuade him ...NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. If the lazy teenagers (you know, the apathetic, rebellious, who give a sh.t attitude) don't want to defend this country when they become adults...then let them live somewhere else. North Korea or Iran may be a great place for them. They better be sure to bring their playstation with them ! My 2 cents! ~~~~Janet R Hot Damn! I didn't know you had that in you - I'm proud of you LOL!!! My best friends son is a tank driver in the Army and just got back from Iraq last May after spending a few weeks shy of a year there. He just found out he's going back in January. We're both very proud of him but we've spent hours crying buckets of tears. too, so I know how you feel. I make lot's of deals with God over that kid LOL! Now my youingest is thinking about the Navy. Your first instinct as a mother is, NO WAY, but his father did two tours in Viet Nam and came back so I just have to pray for both boys. -bg- Kitty >If the lazy teenagers (you know, the apathetic, >rebellious, who give a sh.t attitude) don't want to defend this >country when they become adults...then let them live somewhere else. Some people in this country call the Iraq war, as Bush's war... They think that the war had more to do with oil and Sadam than anything else. I heard our soldiers protected the oil ministry first instead of some old nuclear equipment that was there from the first war. I have also heard that equipment was lost for a time while we were there in Iraq... Now these people did not like Sadam, but did not hate him enough to have a family member killed over it. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp >Hi Diane! Since I was I guess the first to post a political item and got >called on it, I'll enter this discussion. I agreed not to post anything >else political, and now I think it is a good idea. So my vote would be to >keep politics to ourselves, not on the NG. >Gwen I agree with Gwen. I don't think political discussions necessarily belong here and will jeopardize the comraderie of the group. Not to mention the fact that this is an international community and a great portion of the world doesn't much give a damn about politics in the US. Anne AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.AZ http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot >I agree with Gwen. I don't think political discussions necessarily belong >here [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Anne I bet some do, especially when you hear about creating democracy's at gun point around the world; also about the economy leaning towards recession, we are in a world economy. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp > >Hi Diane! Since I was I guess the first to post a political item and got >>called on it, I'll enter this discussion. I agreed not to post anything [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Anne That is an excellent point. Don't ya know that our friends in Canada and across the waters get sooo tired of reading our crap. Harv >i don't want to tamper with >that. so my answer to "should we allow political discussions" is an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >diane You don't have to go into that political thread, its only an option. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp > >i don't want to tamper with >>that. so my answer to "should we allow political discussions" is an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > http://www.mic> > http://www.aira And you have the choice to not put those sites at the bottom of your posts and just dazzzle us with how your mind works. Reported to AOL Harv ~~~~melinda--i'm trying to think of how to vote on the politics question. i am probably in your camp or close to it, and wow, do i have a lot to say. i think there are many of us here who could have a civil discussion, but then there are those who will quickly drag it into the sewer. even more worrisome to me, though, is that there are people here i've come to care deeply about and i know they are 180 degrees opposed to my political stance. i don't want to argue with them or risk our friendships. one of the coolest things about asa, in my opinion, has been getting to know and care about people who think so differently from the way i do. (hi gwen :-) ). i don't want to tamper with that. so my answer to "should we allow political discussions" is an unequivocal. . . "i don't know." ~~~~~diane The cool thing about the internet is that you can jump out of the thread if it becomes too rowdy. If we were in your living room, you'd have a hell of a time getting us feisty ones out the door LOL!!! I've had the same best friend since I was 14, (we're both 48 now), and both her and her husband are democrats. It makes no sense to me but I'd take a bullet for her right to think that way. I'm a spunky person and it's unfortunate that you can't see and hear me, because I'm usually laughing when I post. Even when I told the last spammer I'd rip his throat out I was having fun deciding how to word it. My husband was sitting next to me egging me on (he is NOT a good influence on me LOL!!!) and we were both laughing. I hold no grudges but I willing admit taking glee in showing people the error of their ways! -beg- -vbg- Kitty >My husband was sitting next to me egging me on (he is NOT a good >influence on me LOL!!!) and we were both laughing. kitty, i'm sitting here shaking me head over the fact that we had you dead and buried. impossible. LOL. diane > melinda--i'm trying to think of how to vote on the politics question. i am > probably in your camp or close to it, and wow, do i have a lot to say. i [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > diane Hi Diane,,, It is all about the things you care about and what you believe in. You do not need someone to help you make up your mind. You have a clear choice between two very different kinds of men and what they believe in. In my world,,, people need to face up to the fact of what they vote for and understand what is at stake. Vote,,,, and live with your choice. Harv My choice is to continue to keep politics out of the group. My reasons are much the same as others have said. In the past it has not been possible to keep political discussions at a civil level. One person in particular who used to be on ASA always responded to my political views by calling me names that I don't tolerate in person and refuse to be called online. That certainly did nothing to enhance the discussion or the group in any way. Most of us know where the regulars stand politically anyway. As we all tend to be fairly well informed people, as evidenced by our activity on the internet, I doubt we would change many people's minds anyway. And we made the agreement because as political discussions deteriorated more and more frequently into continued uncivil exchanges between people who had been friends, we saw the need to draw the line somewhere. The most clear cut and fairest place to draw the line seemed to be keeping politics out of the group altogether. I'd like to say that I will continue to abstain from political views regardless, but I don't know that I could stick to that. I feel far to strongly about some things not to answer those who disagree with me. Freedom of speech also includes the freedom NOT to speak - the freedom of a group to determine its own boundaries.  SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare >One person in particular who >used to be on ASA always responded to my political views by calling me names Well, that was not me for sure! >That >certainly did nothing to enhance the discussion or the group in any way. It probably did, but it must of been hidden in all the emotions.... >Most of us know where the regulars stand politically anyway. I only know Harv, Donna, and Kitty. I never read your political views. >As we all tend >to be fairly well informed people, as evidenced by our activity on the >internet, I doubt we would change many people's minds anyway. I never stress if I changed anybody's mind. >And we made >the agreement because as political discussions deteriorated more and more >frequently into continued uncivil exchanges between people who had been >friends, we saw the need to draw the line somewhere. My skin is petty tough, and you need that for politics. Politicians take a lot of crap from all over, just look at those late night shows for starters. >I feel far to >strongly about some things not to answer those who disagree with me. What issues? >Freedom of speech also includes the freedom NOT to speak So true! >the freedom of a >group to determine its own boundaries. Well, that's hard to enforce unless, you have them agree or sign something.. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp > >One person in particular who >>used to be on ASA always responded to my political views by calling me >>names > > Well, that was not me for sure! and you are reported to AOL for the sites you put at the bottom of your post and not for what you say...... Harv > My choice is to continue to keep politics out of the group. My reasons > are [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > a > group to determine its own boundaries. Said so wellllll. Harv Melinda wrote - ~~~~Thay's exactly my point, Harv. There was a guy who I think was named barry who definitively posted re: ASA charter sometime in either 98 or maybe 97 (I'll google it later when I get the time). We created as a group, an ASA that didn't want the kind of spam or sales prevalent on other newsgroups. I used to post in the misc. group but found it useless for info or friendship because of the constant spam.~~~~~~ MHA does have an enforceable charter. The reason it's so small, is because everyone that wants to be on the internet is here at ASA. There is a third arthritis group on usenet, but I didn't care for it because they had a lot of alternative stuff I didn't care for and they let spammers in and tended to believe everything they said. I'll be the first to admit I have a low tolerance for stupid people LOL!!! ~~~~~In the culture of this group, we have managed to chase away most of the spammers and salespersons. We also put the stops on their free speech in doing so.~~~~ Bullshit! We don't bind and gag them and put them in the dipsy dumpster. We harass them until they give up and go away, but that's their choice. They give up their rights themselves. ~~~~In 2000, we as a group discussed at length not discussing partisan politics on ASA. It made the group a much more pleasant place to get support and info.~~~~ How nice! Did you bother to inform each newbie of your nice shinny rule? Nobody told me when I came back and at least 8 newbies have popped in since then and I haven't seen anyone mention it to them either. ~~~~As you all know, I probably have political leanings much more leftist than liberal~~~~~~ There's a difference?!? ~~~~and yet I have consistently reminded special searcher that this was not the place to bring her political agenda BECAUSE WE AS A GROUP AGREED THAT WAS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO KEEP THINGS FRIENDLY AND ON TOPIC IN A BIPARTISAN GROUP. I can and do talk politics constantly but I don't do it here. Well isn't that special! Lucky Melinda actually has a life and can interact with other people and discuss her political views with others and get it out of her system without bringing it here. f.ck the rest of us that are bedridden or housebound and rarely come in contact with anyone other than our immediate families. f.ck the fact that in order to maintain good relations with said families we need a friendly place to vent. f.ck the fact that we feel the most comfortable here and since it's supposed to be a support group we thought we would find tolerance or at least adults with the maturity to know what they can or cannot deal with. The offended peoples rights come first, right? "Politically Correct', (no pun intended), is sacred, right? Ain't no way, baby! Like I've said many times, if you're going to start limiting what we can talk about, be prepared to have what matters most to you challenged. I don't like alternative crap. It's mumbo jumbo to me and as of now I declare all things alternative offend me and cannot be discussed in ASA! See how stupid that is? EVERYTHING offends someone, somewhere. We're adults! We all have either the ability to killfile or hit the delete key. If you get offended here, it's your own damn fault! ~~~~If we want to change that, let's go for it. There are some very articulate people here who have been exercising good impulse control for the last four years.~~~~ And those of us smart enough not to give up our rights to free speech are the 'immature' bad guys. It's people like you that willingly give up rights in order to not cause waves that wind up being ruled by dictators. But that's just my opinion LOL!!! ~~~~~However, I am not going to change that on Kitty's say so. Get me a majority opinion or a consensus opinion and I'm good to go.~~~~~ Kinda like Kerry, huh? Let's kiss Europe's a.s and get their permission to run our own country ....hehehehe....! ~~~~ However, free speech doesn't wash as a argument.~~~~ Of course not - you willingly give that up on a whim! How oh so civilised of you! ~~~~We acvtively try to limit the free speech of people who post not just spam or sales pitches, but also people like searcher and Tom who are just so relentless and annoying with their one track posts, by reporting them.~~~~~ Again. there is a difference between someone giving up and going away, and denying them free speech. If you can't see that you're deliberately obtuse. ~~~~So either way is fine with me but again this is a group and we have no leader or decision maker so let's get a group vote.~~~~ This isn't the third grade and I'm not 'voting' for anything. I say go for it! I can't wait to poke holes in your flawed thinking anyway! -beg- -g- Kitty Kitty, I don't know what your personal issue is with Melinda, but I think you are way, way out of line in the way you have attacked her and her beliefs. We as a group HAD decided in the time you were away to keep the partisan politics out of the group as it was causing far too many problems and allowing for very little support here in ASA. We have actually been quite successful in keeping with this agreement regardless of a few disruptive trolls and spammers. And, yes, the newbies always do find out about the agreement. Obviously you feel different, and that is your prerogative, but to just totally trash someone, like you did Melinda, because she said what was on her mind and because it doesn't agree with you is just plain wrong and a very good example of why we, as a group, made the decision we did. We in the group really try very hard to be as supportive as we can to one another despite great differences in personalities beliefs, treatments and etc. We do not find it useful to talk politics which always ultimately ends up in very heated disagreements. What is supportive about fighting??? Apparently you find support in fighting amongst others, but the rest of us do not!!! This group has turned into a very ugly spot to be since you came back. I'm not saying you are totally responsible for that, but you sure add to that atmosphere a great deal. You seem to take great pleasure in fighting --- how sad and unfortunate for this group as a whole. Melinda is a very respected regular in this group and certainly doesn't warrant the type of attack that you have just launched on her!!! I am sorry that you are bedridden and in such bad shape. I am even more sorry that you come here and think that the only type of support you can get here is from fighting with others. That is sad. I know very well that you are aware of and certainly capable of discussing politics and other such venues in groups that were set up specifically for that purpose, so your excuse that this is where you come to vent doesn't quite cut it. This is not a free for all place to vent about everything, especially politics! This is a place to vent about your arthritis issues, treatments, etc., and to support one another through their diseases. Use the other usenet groups out there and available to you to vent about your political views and to fight with others, that portion is not welcome here, and neither are your personal attacks on Melinda!!! JMHO of course! Donna G Wow - Kitty's turn in the barrel LOL!!! Donna G got a wild hair and wrote - ~~~Kitty, I don't know what your personal issue is with Melinda, but I think you are way, way out of line in the way you have attacked her and her beliefs.~~~~ Attacked her? You see things I don't. I was disagreeing with her assumption that rules about what could be discussed could be implemented, not her personally. ~~~~We as a group HAD decided in the time you were away to keep the partisan politics out of the group as it was causing far too many problems and allowing for very little support here in ASA.~~~~ And you have every right on the planet not to discuss it. You also have every right to stay out of the threads you can't handle emotionally. ~~~We have actually been quite successful in keeping with this agreement regardless of a few disruptive trolls and spammers. And, yes, the newbies always do find out about the agreement. Obviously you feel different, and that is your prerogative, but to just totally trash someone, like you did Melinda, because she said what was on her mind and because it doesn't agree with you is just plain wrong and a very good example of why we, as a group, made the decision we did.~~~~ I still don't see where I attacked Melinda personally. I've always thought she gives sensible advice and she can be pretty funny at times. If you're talking about the no alternative stuff, if you look at the next paragraph it says that thinking that way is stupid. Go back and read it again. ~~~~We in the group really try very hard to be as supportive as we can to one another despite great differences in personalities beliefs, treatments and etc. We do not find it useful to talk politics which always ultimately ends up in very heated disagreements.~~~~ This all started over a troll. I put in some of my posts for the other ASAer's to relax and not take offense and why I was doing it. Anyone that took offense did so because they wanted to. ~~~What is supportive about fighting??? Apparently you find support in fighting amongst others, but the rest of us do not!!!~~~~ YIKES!!! ~~~~This group has turned into a very ugly spot to be since you came back.~~~~ Dang - Didn't she just say it wasn't right to attack people? ~~~~I'm not saying you are totally responsible for that,~~~~ I didn't see anybody else's name, cupcake LOL!!! ~~~~but you sure add to that atmosphere a great deal. You seem to take great pleasure in fighting --- how sad and unfortunate for this group as a whole.~~~~ WATCH MY LIPS - Stay out of the threads you can't handle. ~~~Melinda is a very respected regular in this group and certainly doesn't warrant the type of attack that you have just launched on her!!!~~~~ What am I, chopped liver LOL!!! ~~~~I am sorry that you are bedridden and in such bad shape.~~~~ Don't need your pity, but thanks anyway! ~~~~I am even more sorry that you come here and think that the only type of support you can get here is from fighting with others. That is sad.~~~~ Crikeys - you don't notice that I function very well in other threads? That I don't post all the medical info I come across that might help somebody? That I don't try to help anyone that I can? ~~~~I know very well that you are aware of and certainly capable of discussing politics and other such venues in groups that were set up specifically for that purpose, so your excuse that this is where you come to vent doesn't quite cut it.~~~~ We certainly know where you stand! I sure hope this is making you feel better. Note to self: Donna G can attack whoever she wants but Kitty can't (even tho she isn't attacking anyone personally anyway), and Kitty is a bad person for doing what she really isn't but when Donna G does it, it doesn't make her a bad person. OK - I think I've got it Donna G! ~~~~This is not a free for all place to vent about everything, especially politics!~~~~ And yet you're doing it yourself! Ya gotta love irony LOL!!! ~~~~This is a place to vent about your arthritis issues, treatments, etc., and to support one another through their diseases. Use the other usenet groups out there and available to you to vent about your political views and to fight with others, that portion is not welcome here, and neither are your personal attacks on Melinda!!!~~~~~ I hate to burst your bubble, kiddo, but I am a 'regular', too. Anyone that posts on a 'regular' basis is. I have no advice for you because you obviously don't have the willpower to stay away from things that upset you. -bg- Kitty >Kitty, > >I don't know what your personal issue is with Melinda, but I think you >are way, way out of line in the way you have attacked her and her >beliefs. Has it ever came to mind that maybe Kitty felt that she was attacked? >We as a group HAD decided in the time you were away to keep the partisan >politics out of the group as it was causing far too many problems and >allowing for very little support here in ASA. Who decided that? I've been around here a long time and I don't even remember the issue coming up. Enlighten me if you will. >We have actually been quite successful in keeping with this agreement >regardless of a few disruptive trolls and spammers. And, yes, the >newbies always do find out about the agreement. Again, who decided this issue for "The Group"? >Obviously you feel different, and that is your prerogative, but to just >totally trash someone, like you did Melinda, because she said what was >on her mind and because it doesn't agree with you is just plain wrong >and a very good example of why we, as a group, made the decision we did. Are you meaning ASA when you mention "Group" or is there a certain "Click" around here that thinks they are in charge of anything that can be posted here. >We in the group really try very hard to be as supportive as we can to >one another despite great differences in personalities beliefs, >treatments and etc. We do not find it useful to talk politics which >always ultimately ends up in very heated disagreements. Not always but if you feel that way then you feel that way. >What is supportive about fighting??? You really don't know Kitty very well do you? >Apparently you find support in fighting amongst others, but the rest of >us do not!!! I can just hear her laughing her a.s off right now. >This group has turned into a very ugly spot to be since you came back. >I'm not saying you are totally responsible for that, but you sure add to >that atmosphere a great deal. You seem to take great pleasure in >fighting --- how sad and unfortunate for this group as a whole. Maybe Kitty thought this group was getting too vanilla and decided to liven up this group some. Hey, you ought to hear some of the sh.t out of some of the other alt groups. Makes this place look like a church house. >Melinda is a very respected regular in this group and certainly doesn't >warrant the type of attack that you have just launched on her!!! I really don't feel Kitty really attacked her but your definition of it may be different than mine just as all people are different. Kitty gave an opinion that she was not going to give up her right to free speech. We had a giant flame war back in 98 about this very subject and some people walked off from here because every time they came to this group somebody had posted a joke or some thread was going on that wasn't exactly about arthritis. It keep the group interesting to have a bit of diversity. It still does for many. JMHO of course!! >I am sorry that you are bedridden and in such bad shape. I am even more >sorry that you come here and think that the only type of support you can [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >portion is not welcome here, and neither are your personal attacks on >Melinda!! Aw Donna, Kitty is always welcome here. I don't think she said anything political but did stand up for her rights and she does have that right. This group is not moderated nor does it have a charter. The regulars do a good job of keeping everything on basically a happy medium but things do happen now and again. Even among friends. When it does either someone can get mad and leave or stick it out and get everything settled. Whatever you may decide. >JMHO of course! Donna, your a very nice lady but when you come to the usernet to use this group or any other group you have to take the bad with the good. That's just a fact of life for the internet that you need to not be so naive about. Again, JMHO!! ~Kenny >Donna G http://usslowrydd-770.com Kenny, Trust me, I am far from being naive, trust me. I still stand by my opinion that Melinda was viciously attacked by Kitty. Kitty then turned right around in the very next thread and labeled Melinda a "spammer", yet claims she has respect for Melinda. Call it what ever you may, Kenny, it is still wrong and I will not stand silent when someone like Melinda has been needlessly attacked!!! Donna G DonnaG wrote - ~~~~Kenny, Trust me, I am far from being naive, trust me. I still stand by my opinion that Melinda was viciously attacked by Kitty.~~~~ That's your opinion and you're entitled to it even if you are wrong LOL!!! ~~~Kitty then turned right around in the very next thread and labeled Melinda a "spammer", yet claims she has respect for Melinda.~~~~~ Uh, Donna, if a spammer wrote that paragraph we'd jump on his butt. If you're talking about product, and availability and the prices you're going to charge, that's selling and advertising. When Cush tried to sell something he invented here, I called him on it, too. If my husband did it, I'd still call a spade a spade. ~~~~Call it what ever you may, Kenny, it is still wrong and I will not stand silent when someone like Melinda has been needlessly attacked!!!~~~~~ Still on that "When I attack it's OK, but when I think Kitty does it, it's not OK' thing? Ain't that amazin'! -bg- Kitty Kitty, Say what ever you want about me, I am here for the long run and am going no where! You say I'm still on the same thing, but I find it quite interesting myself that so many have said they don't want the political discussion here and all you can do is talk about the old times when you used to be here. Things change my friend whether you like it or not and your old broken record of what used to be when you were here before, is just that, an old broken record. If it makes you feel superior to "attack" people, then by all means, feel free to attack me as often as you like and in any manner you like, with all the vulgarity you like. I would MUCH rather you be doing that than attacking others who don't even warrant such an attack. And, yes, I will continue to stick up for anyone that I think is wrongly attacked, even the problematic trolls when they post the rare occassional post that falls within the accepted practices of this group. For someone who claims to be the almighty queen of the universe, you are awfully sensitive. Just because I come down on you for attacking Melinda and stirring up a bit of trouble here and there, you feel you have to accuse _me_ of attacking you! Well, again, I say, call it what ever you like, I stand by my words, and as I and others have very quickly come to realize since you have been back, anything said to you falls on deaf ears anyways, so we don't expect anything to really change. Donna G Donna G wrote - ~~~~Kitty, Say what ever you want about me, I am here for the long run and am going no where!~~~~~~~ What ng are you reading? I never told you to leave. It was you that suggested that I leave. I may be on buckets of narcotics, but I can keep the threads straight and you can too if you try a little harder LOL!!! ~~~~You say I'm still on the same thing, but I find it quite interesting myself that so many have said they don't want the political discussion here and all you can do is talk about the old times when you used to be here.~~~~~ That may be all you hear, but it isn't all I say. Are you sure you're reading ASA? ~~~~Things change my friend whether you like it or not and your old broken record of what used to be when you were here before, is just that, an old broken record~~~~~~ Dang it - I'm pretty sure she was the one to say it's wrong to attack anyone. ~~~If it makes you feel superior to "attack" people, then by all means, feel free to attack me as often as you like and in any manner you like, with all the vulgarity you like. I would MUCH rather you be doing that than attacking others who don't even warrant such an attack.~~~~~ Holy sh.t! I'm going to put this down to a weird drug reaction, Donna. Why are you reading this thread when it's making you so upset? ~~~~And, yes, I will continue to stick up for anyone that I think is wrongly attacked, even the problematic trolls when they post the rare occassional post that falls within the accepted practices of this group. For someone who claims to be the almighty queen of the universe, you are awfully sensitive.~~~~~ That last statement shows you don't know me at all. ~~~~Just because I come down on you for attacking Melinda and stirring up a bit of trouble here and there, you feel you have to accuse _me_ of attacking you!~~~~ OK - give me the word you would use to describe the way you have been talking to me tonight. ~~~~Well, again, I say, call it what ever you like, I stand by my words, and as I and others have very quickly come to realize since you have been back, anything said to you falls on deaf ears anyways, so we don't expect anything to really change.~~~~ Then why do you even try LOL!!! Like I said, I'm chalking all your statements up to bad drugs, or PMS, or a bad day, or some such animal. Hope you feel better tomorrow! -g- Kitty > Kitty, Donna G. you are being used. I am sorry to say that because you mean well. In many ways you and I think alike. I just want you to open your eyes a little wider. Harv > Kitty, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > even the problematic trolls when they post the rare occassional post > that falls within the accepted practices of this group. This seems like a good place to throw in what I was thinking last night but didn't post, because I wasn't sure how to word it. When I first came to this group, Kitty was MIA, but not forgotten. A commonly expressed sentiment was, when a new troll showed up, to speculate about how Kitty would have dealt with the matter. So people were clearly nostalgic about her style, which seems to include political gibes. However, ASA has changed in the interim. It isn't that people decided out of the blue that no we shouldn't argue politics. Our society changed, especially US society. After 9/11, the US government took steps, primarily military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, but also establishment of the Department of Homeland Society and all that that entails, that are controversial. As a result, we have greater polarization within the US, and hence among US participants in this group, and greater resentment of US policies among some non-US participants. Before 9/11, the occasional political comment probably wouldn't have caused the degree of sniping that it now causes. And this is why most people have agreed to try not to post gratuitous political comments. Meanwhile, nobody has to read everything. You don't have to announce who's in your killfile. Personally, I've killfiled people who don't quote what they're responding to, people who insist in posting in HTML, people who crosspost, and people whose posts make me angry (not all in this group). I don't generally make a public statement of this, as my reasons for killfiling someone are my own and I don't expect other people to share my biases. But I'm torn about how to deal with the Watchbozo and the like. On the one hand, I think newbies have to be warned that this guy is nuts (if it isn't immediately apparent). On the other hand, I have limited time online, and don't want to waste it. So, I don't know. What I do know is that I can't control how other people post (even though I can ask nicely); what I can control is how I respond. And I tend to ignore political posts because they raise my blood pressure too much. (Unless, of course, they're funny. Then all bets are off, as a good wisecrack trumps everything.) SignatureAF > Kitty, > > I don't know what your personal issue is with Melinda, but I think you > are way, way out of line in the way you have attacked her and her > beliefs. Kitty did not start this. Someone that is very smart did and then sat back and watcher her good work do its thing. > We as a group HAD decided in the time you were away to keep the partisan > politics out of the group as it was causing far too many problems and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > regardless of a few disruptive trolls and spammers. And, yes, the > newbies always do find out about the agreement. And it worked very well just like you have said but it will not work with trolls and activists. What they believe in is far more important than people pain and need for support. > Obviously you feel different, and that is your prerogative, but to just > totally trash someone, like you did Melinda, because she said what was > on her mind and because it doesn't agree with you is just plain wrong > and a very good example of why we, as a group, made the decision we did. You are talking like this is a personal thing between Kitty and "M" and it is not. > We in the group really try very hard to be as supportive as we can to > one another despite great differences in personalities beliefs, > treatments and etc. And you do a very good job of it along with many others. > We do not find it useful to talk politics which > always ultimately ends up in very heated disagreements. > > What is supportive about fighting??? > Apparently you find support in fighting amongst others, but the rest of > us do not!!! There are times when a person need to fight for what they believe. Evil wins when good men and women do nothing. > This group has turned into a very ugly spot to be since you came back. > I'm not saying you are totally responsible for that, but you sure add to > that atmosphere a great deal. You seem to take great pleasure in > fighting --- how sad and unfortunate for this group as a whole. You are just mad right now that your newsgroup has been stepped on a little but you are forgetting who threw the fist punch and it was done well. > Melinda is a very respected regular in this group and certainly doesn't > warrant the type of attack that you have just launched on her!!! Please ,,, please,,, that is just your opinion and you do not speak for the newsgroup any more than I do. > I am sorry that you are bedridden and in such bad shape. I am even more > sorry that you come here and think that the only type of support you can [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > JMHO of course! > Donna G You know that I love you and understand what you are trying to say but what you fail to understand is that Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on the American way of life and there are times when they just can not go unanswered. Harv >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on >the American way of life yikes, harv. to me, the fact that melinda can choose her "way of life," whatever that is, is a tribute to the american way of life. diane >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on the American way of life Statements like this prove the whole crux of the argument that politics don't belong on this usually very loving and compassionate newsgroup. I read most all posts. Haven't ever felt the need to avoid political threads, nor quash anyone's right to free speech. I just don't participate (til now :) . Occasionally, I learn something and I'm generally not disturbed one way or the other. Take note, though, they almost always turn out this way...with people I love at each others' throats...unable to separate the ideology from the person. This hurts my heart more than I can say : ( ---- Hoping your hills are never too steep. Be well, Patty > >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on the American way of life > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Hoping your hills are never too steep. > Be well, Patty Much of what you say is true. When a person tells you they are left of socialist,,, you can nod your head and say Okkk if you want to,,, that is your choice but I can not do that. I see them for what they are. Harv > >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on >>the American way of life [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > diane I agree with that and America will end up being the only place in the world where what you have said is true. If you do not understand what and how a Marxist operates,,, no, I am not going to say that. Let me just say that after my youngest daughter became one in the last two years of her collage. When a class that has nothing to do with political stuff is asking for reports on such as this,,,,a Marxist smiles. It is working. "way of life" is a little too simple of a way to think about what a Marxist is and does. Harv > > >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on > >>the American way of life [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I agree with that and America will end up being the only place in the world > where what you have said is true. I agree with what she says as well. However, I am puzzled by your response, Harv. What would make you think that? Janet N. >> > >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on >> >>the American way of life [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Janet N. We have our share of anarchists, Marxists, communists, and socialists. If a person is left of socialist,,, it is a way of life. NONE of it is how our country was set up to run,,, none of it. Harv > We have our share of anarchists, Marxists, communists, and socialists. >If a person is left of socialist,,, it is a way of life. NONE of it is how >our country was set up to run,,, none of it. >Harv What are you talking about, it was people like us that started America. We were the ones with the new ideas. You guys were called in the early days of America, Tories... If you go back even further, you guys were called the Spartans... Can anybody here remember any great Spartan from World History. http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp You have been reported to AOL for posting your political sites and that was the dumbest, stupidest reply to what I said. You really need help and will not find it here or get it from me. Harv >> We have our share of anarchists, Marxists, communists, and socialists. >>If a person is left of socialist,,, it is a way of life. NONE of it is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen.asp Hi Harv, <SNIPPED> :) > We have our share of anarchists, Marxists, communists, and socialists. > If a person is left of socialist,,, it is a way of life. > NONE of it is how our country was set up to run,,, none of it. > Harv It looks to me that you are adding incorrect meanings to what Melinda wrote "As you all know, I probably have political leanings much more leftist than liberal". I agree with you that this government wasn't intended to be socialist in form, but it was intended to be a *Christian* liberal form of governing that would allow freedom of thought for everyone. Liberal as used by the founding fathers meaning not narrow in opinion or judgment, tolerant of different beliefs. I would suggest that before you condemn someone for what you *think* they meant you ask yourself what Jesus would do. GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii">AOL Click</a> * <a href="http://grampahugs.is-a-geek.org/">AOL Click</a> **************************************************** >Hi Harv, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >but it was intended to be a *Christian* liberal form of governing that would >allow freedom of thought for everyone. I beg to differ. It was set up so that one could be Christian if one wished but one could also be an atheist or any religion. By the way, many of the founders of this country were not Christian. Do you know when we first started celebrating Christmas in this country? Thumper >Liberal as used by the founding fathers meaning not narrow in opinion or >judgment, tolerant of different beliefs. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >GramPaHugs, >Alex, To reply drop XYZ in address > Hi Harv, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > would > allow freedom of thought for everyone. That kind of thinking may be correct but not allowed by left of liberal people in the Dem. party. > Liberal as used by the founding fathers meaning not narrow in opinion or > judgment, tolerant of different beliefs. How I wish that was what it meant today but it in no way does. Today it is controlled by the far left. How I wish they would run someone that I could vote for because I do believe in the two party system. > I would suggest that before you condemn someone for what you *think* they > meant > you ask yourself what Jesus would do. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, All in all that is so well said and I wish that my everyday actions could be closer to what Jesus taught us. The thing is once a person can rationalize the killing of babies to control someone's lifestyle ,,,,,,,,, All else is just small potatoes. You can vote for corrupt office holders and the most immoral heads of state this world has ever seen. Like I said on another post,,,, we have a clear choice this time and everyone knows who and what they are and when we vote it will say who and what we are. This is my last political post. I hope it is. Harv > > Hi Harv, > > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > This is my last political post. I hope it is. > Harv I have to say Harv, for someone so keen on "Don't feed the trolls" and objecting to sigline links to sites you may not like, you sure take up a lot of space with your own opinions. "...controlled by the far left" caught my eye in your reply here. I didn't know which to do, laugh out loud, or post a list of references for you to learn something from as you appear to get all your information and opinions from Fox News by your comments. (You're not NRA BTW?) www.gregpalast.com (amongst many others) would make a good starting point in your education methinks. Lets hope this is my last political post huh? ;) Signature--------------------------- Another squeaking wheel @ http://www.deja-moo.co.uk/~mikesweb/ http://www.mikeswebsite.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ :-) No, do not belong to the NRA and you are not the last word on world politics but I do find you as interesting and informed and honest about your health system. My youngest daughter is a teaches at the univ of Leeds and I get how your system works from someone that lives in it. Yes,,,, I am opinionated when forced to take part because I really hate politics as it is today. Wayyy too many lies repeated over and over becomes truth if no one speaks up. When nearly all of TV news work off of the same page and I am aware of what took place with how the BBC handles the news also. I find that you and I might see the world around us the same way in that it may not be what organizations or politics say,,, but what they do and have done over a long period of time. Harv >> > Hi Harv, >> > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > Lets hope this is my last political post huh? ;) > I find that you and I might see the world around us the same way in > that it may not be what organizations or politics say,,, but what they do > and have done over a long period of time. "...And you shall know them by their works..." Yup. I can go for that! So when are you gonna cast your vote for Oprah then? ;) (Rickie Lake would make a good alternative maybe?) Signature--------------------------- Another squeaking wheel @ http://www.deja-moo.co.uk/~mikesweb/ http://www.mikeswebsite.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ >> I find that you and I might see the world around us the same way in >> that it may not be what organizations or politics say,,, but what they do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > So when are you gonna cast your vote for Oprah then? ;) Mike from the UK,,,, are you learning how to be a troll? Harv > >> I find that you and I might see the world around us the same way in > >> that it may not be what organizations or politics say,,, but what they do [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Mike from the UK,,,, are you learning how to be a troll? > Harv Not quite with you here. Huh? 8\ Signature--------------------------- Another squeaking wheel @ http://www.deja-moo.co.uk/~mikesweb/ http://www.mikeswebsite.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ Mike-UK posted... ................................ > www.gregpalast.com > > (amongst many others) would make a good starting point in > your education methinks. > > Lets hope this is my last political post huh? ;) gregpalast.com is one of my favorite sites. Amazing stuff, and very well researched. He's good. SignatureDi dabell at optonline dot net www.pbase.com/di "Terrorism is the war of the poor. War is the terrorism of the rich." Peter Ustinov > >Melinda's whole way of life is an attack on >>the American way of life [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > diane thank you, diane, for saying what i was thinking and for probably saying it in a much more concise way than i would have. imo-- what people, in general, don't understand they tend to fear and what they fear, they tend to denigrate, ridicule or ultimately try to destroy. kate Hey Kate, I'm just trying to figure out what my "way of life" is. I cannot for the life of me imagine what could possibly be so scary in any of the three very mild posts I made in this thread to have my "way of life" attacked so vehemently. It is rather strange that for years Harv and I have been friends and now somehow my political views consitute a threat that makes him think I am against the consitution and the American way of life. Wonder what that was? By the way, I am in love with the consitution, Harv. It is a glorious document and when I hear far right grumblings about needing to do away with the consitution, it makes me very very nervous. Other than really wanting a system of single payer healthcare, feeling that people are always more important than profit, wanting more environmental protections rather than fewer, I really am not dangerous. As far as lifestyle rather than political leanings, I am just curious what you think this lifestyle of mine is? I cannot even imagine making a comment on your lifestyle, Harv. We after all are only living in a cyber world here-I don't know anything about your lifestyle accept that you are a loving husband and father, a deeply religious man, and your moral fiber was forged by many experiences in your youth that you have shared with us. The fact that you and I differ politically would never cause me to make comments about you on a personal level-I might argue with your message but never would I attack you as a person. Oh and by the way (just in response to your wondering how I could pray and have my political leanings) did you know that Ghandi and Martin Luther King were considered leftist politically? One final thing-Where in the world did you get the idea that I was marxist? It never came from me and it certainly didn't come from anything I have ever posted. I really like this little survey you can find by going to askjeeves.com and then selecting "difference between right and left wings" Might be educational Melinda > Hey Kate, > I'm just trying to figure out what my "way of life" is. I cannot for the [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Melinda I'm with you on this Melinda, although I don't often butt in on threads these days. Well I have always admired the sentiments you express, but have to say I haven't gained a lot of knowledge about your "way of life", apart from that you seem to be a truly nice person. That surely is as much as anyone can know about a person on a newsgroup - an opinion based on a person's postings? No one can make a judgement on a person by summing them up with one phrase. Personally, I'm a humanist first and foremost and hate seeing personal attacks in groups like this. ( I could be considered a leftist though, but I leave that at home when I go into newsgroups) I'm not keen on positical postings, but if there were marked so, then I could ignore them. Trouble is when people's political views creep in on other posts, then you can't ignore them. Jayne > Hey Kate, > I'm just trying to figure out what my "way of life" is. ***i can't help you there. heck, i don't even know what my "way of life" is -- i wish butch were alive so i could ask him, cuz he knew me better than anybody. I cannot for the life > of me imagine what could possibly be so scary in any of the three very > mild > posts I made in this thread to have my "way of life" attacked so > vehemently. ***harv's pre-election jitters? > It is rather strange that for years Harv and I have been friends and now > somehow my political views consitute a threat that makes him think I am > against > the consitution and the American way of life. > > Wonder what that was? ***i think i'm at fault for part of that, melinda, my comment about looking up the word meanings of leftist and liberal. and am i ever sorry for that, cuz i think joe mc carthy perverted too many perfectly good words when he was alive. > By the way, I am in love with the consitution, Harv. It is a glorious > document [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > people are always more important than profit, wanting more environmental > protections rather than fewer, I really am not dangerous. ***<smile> gee, melinda, you're speaking my heart and mind with all of this and then, i have a couple of more items of concern on my list for this election season. hey, melinda---that must mean i'm even more leftist than you are!---neener neener.LOL kate > As far as lifestyle rather than political leanings, I am just curious what > you [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Melinda > Hey Kate, > I'm just trying to figure out what my "way of life" is. I cannot for the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > against > the consitution and the American way of life. If you are what you say you,,, if you believe what you say you believe, there is no way you could support the contitution and the bill of rights. > Wonder what that was? > > By the way, I am in love with the consitution, Harv. It is a glorious > document > and when I hear far right grumblings about needing to do away with the > consitution, it makes me very very nervous. I have never heard that and I would know. > Other than really wanting a system of single payer healthcare, feeling > that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > on > your lifestyle, Harv. If you are a Marxist or left of being a socialist,,,, it is your life style and it is how you live. We after all are only living in a cyber world here-I > don't know anything about your lifestyle accept that you are a loving > husband [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you as > a person. Just tell me that you do not support what you have made me believe that you do. > Oh and by the way (just in response to your wondering how I could pray and > have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ever > posted. Because you have said that you are left of a socialist. That puts you in the Mich.Moore class. > I really like this little survey you can find by going to askjeeves.com > and > then selecting "difference between right and left wings" > Might be educational > > Melinda Its not about left and right if you are left of socialist. You say you support the constitution and the bill of rights then you do not take actions to change them or say they are what is known as a living document. I have personally dealt with Marxists and I know what makes their world go around and it is not the American way of life. Socialism is not our way of life Melinda and you have said you are left of that. It is not how our government is setup. I have the feeling that they are just words to you and the meaning behind your words should not be talked about. Harv > Its not about left and right if you are left of socialist. You say you > support the constitution and the bill of rights then you do not take actions > to change them or say they are what is known as a living document. I have > personally dealt with Marxists and I know what makes their world go around > and it is not the American way of life. Socialism is not our way of life Just out of curiosity, I have spent the last hour or so surfing for definitions of Socialism, Communism and Marxism, as well as a few other terms from this thread. Yes, we all know what they are... but I was surprised at the range of definitions. I suspect that people's perceptions of these and most things political are just as varied. I hope everyone keeps in mind that when you are involved in a vigorous debate, there is a chance the participants may be speaking entirely different languages (not meant to reference any specific post, but just a general observation). Janet N. > Just out of curiosity, I have spent the last hour or so surfing for > definitions of Socialism, Communism and Marxism, as well as a few other [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Janet N. LOLOLL, Very true and well said. It is the reason politics makes for very bad discussion. Harv Harv, please show me any place I have ever made a statement about being "left of socialist" or any place I have ever made a statement about socialist or socialism period. You do that and I'll put on the horns and leave this group to you melinda > Harv, > please show me any place I have ever made a statement about being "left of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > melinda "As you all know, I probably have political leanings much more leftist than liberal and yet I have consistently reminded special searcher that this was not the place to bring her political agenda BECAUSE WE AS A GROUP AGREED THAT WAS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO KEEP THINGS FRIENDLY AND ON TOPIC IN A BIPARTISAN GROUP." No one is asking you to put horns on and go anyplace and I thank you for your help with the troll but it really is a waste of both our time and will not change her sick mind. In reply to your words above is when I misunderstood your words and if it had been corrected then,,, most of what you and I have had to say would not of been said "I have said what I think and will read what others think. I have also said what I will do and not do. Like Kitty,,,, Your group vote will not change what I have said or will do. IMO,,,, politics will ruin this newsgroup BUT it would let you get rid of your need to push your thoughts on someone else and it does explain a great many things. Harv " And you did not reply. I can see that at this point I thought you said left of socialist but what you actually said was left of liberal which in all truth could be the same thing. I assumed because being left of liberal includes all of the things I have listed in another post that will end the American way of life and which one you fit in is your business and not mine as long as it is not brought into this newsgroup. Harv >> Hey Kate, >> I'm just trying to figure out what my "way of life" is. I cannot for the [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >and the meaning behind your words should not be talked about. >Harv Harv, Just what in the constitution is inconsistent with a socialist way of life? Thumper To reply drop XYZ in address > Harv, Just what in the constitution is inconsistent with a socialist > way of life? > Thumper You say some interesting things Thumper and I am not going to go into that. I have had enough but I will read what you have to say. Harv > One final thing-Where in the world did you get the idea that I was marxist? I've been wondering that myself. I've known a number of Marxists, one way or another. It comes naturally when you hang out with folks deeply interested in history. I would never characterize Melinda as Marxist. That said, it might also be worth noting that Marx's original writings bore little resemblance to what is now characterized as "Marxist". SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare >Marx's original writings bore >little resemblance to what is now characterized as "Marxist". Just as true "communism" bears little or no resemblence to what we know as the communism of the 20 century. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green > >Marx's original writings bore >>little resemblance to what is now characterized as "Marxist". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > communism of the 20 century. > Char i think you and nann are right and that it is true of many, if not most ideologies, maybe even all ideologies. it appears that everything and everybody is changing, in some way, and always has been. i think that this constant flux has a lot to do with relationship and inter-relationship, with the infinite number of variables that are physical or mental influences and forces. kate > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green |
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