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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2004PCP visit and more [really long]
Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the book and read it. Just read it. Okay I say. Spent yesterday reading. I was on that similar kind of diet - nothing white, about 20 years ago. A doctor put me on it for PMS symptoms. Said she thought I was hypoglycemic and it would help that which might be enough to remove the other symptoms. She was right. I lived on that religiously for a year but I was much younger and in a lot better shape. Making my own bread was key because no white flour or white sugar was used. Not sure I could handle all of that now. I find myself too tired all the time to do any kind of cooking that takes effort. Making tuna salad is work these days. I still avoid cake and cookies and ice cream and most anything that might give me a headache. I usually can tell when I have let too much hidden sugar sneak back in my system because I start crying at commercials and the like. Sugar is in everything. Anyway, I will reread it again slowly and see if I can talk John into going along on this path with me. I am too tired to be able to make a sane decision at the moment and don't have enough energy to give to having two weeks worth of will power. I haven't been sleeping well for a week and it is taking its toll. The other thing she said was that my BP is too low to live like that (88/54) -- which it has been for a long time. I am to move my BP medication from bedtime to morning and I am not to take it again until I see it crawling back up. So I am back to monitoring my BP on a daily basis. Guess this is a win-win. One less medication in my body, well hopefully. My eye won't settle [saw him today] so I am back up on the amount of drops. My body feels well enough to lower my oral pred by one mg and normally I don't do a drop when I am having eye problems, but it has been so long since I have felt physically well enough to make a drop that I just don't want to miss the opportunity. My body probably feels well cause the eye is taking the brunt of arthur's abuse. Who knows. I am slightly down today because last night I discovered that my dance hand split had melted in the car and the valet guy had somehow stepped on it. I can't believe how nearly panicked I was. Close to tears. Then today the keeper of the gate to OT got her shield out and it was all I could do to over ride her via my hand surgeon. He was in surgery but his secretary caught him between patients and gave me permission to go to OT and then she personally walked the order over to OT and shoved it at the dragon. My eye appointment was for 10:15 so they made the OT for 11:00. I saw the eye man at 11:30 and when I got to OT, the dragon says with nose in the air that had missed the appointment. I said she knew I was in the building as I had stopped in earlier to find out if the order had gone through when I first got there and every other office knows that you can only move through the system as fast as they work. She finally gets up and goes to see what can be done. She must have gone really far but eventually in 15 mins. she returns and says someone can see me now. Something odd going on in that department because there was absolutely no one there that I knew. The head of the department made my splint and she was also new. The other OT's who had been there as long as I have been getting hand surgeries are gone. Didn't used to have a dragon at the gate -- didn't used to have a gate. oh well, change and not for the best. So now I have a new hand splint but blew away so much energy to get it that I am not sure I have anything left to go dancing in it tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. Duckie  Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) > I lived on that > religiously for a year but I was much younger and in a lot better shape. > Making my own bread was key because no white flour or white sugar was > used. Hi Duckie, There's a lot more available on the market now than there used to be for people with special dietary needs. Some of the low-carb breads would probably be ideal for you. I eat them regularly and they are packed with unrefined grains and most don't contain sugar -- or very little of it. I know the weight / diet thing takes a *lot* of energy and that it's tough, but if you need help or encouragement, let me know! I've lost 125 lbs. and kept it off for 2 years, so I know about all the battles and frustrations. Re: the blood pressure, wow, that is low. It's no wonder you're tired! I hope the elimination of the meds will bring it up soon. Tracy Actually the bread recipe I had was great and it was made in the food processor and required no rise time or maybe one in the pan because it was made with yogurt. But it still needs to be made. I have tried one of those low carb bread [actually Thomas Bagel] and it was nasty so I am reluctant to even consider something else with the name low carb attached to it. Duckie >>I lived on that >>religiously for a year but I was much younger and in a lot better shape. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > probably be ideal for you. I eat them regularly and they are packed with > unrefined grains and most don't contain sugar -- or very little of it. There is a rather dry but very flavorful low carb bread I get at the health food store in my town. It gets brought in once a week from the bakery in NJ. It is lower carb than the Arnold's, etc. But the big thing is very high in fiber and nutrients, which is helpful when on low carb. They also make bagels. SignatureAdelle D. Stavis, Esq. > Actually the bread recipe I had was great and it was made in the food > processor and required no rise time or maybe one in the pan because it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > probably be ideal for you. I eat them regularly and they are packed with > > unrefined grains and most don't contain sugar -- or very little of it. I, for one, would love it if you shared some of your help or encouragement for those of us just beginning to undertake a diet plan! Do you mind if I ask how long it took you to lose the 125 lbs? What plan did you follow, if any? Any help, suggestions, tricks, etc would be more than appreciated as I would love to know how people keep motivated, etc. Thanks for your willingness to share with us! Donna G > I, for one, would love it if you shared some of your help or > encouragement for those of us just beginning to undertake a diet plan! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > be more than appreciated as I would love to know how people keep > motivated, etc. Hi Donna, I lost my weight by following Protein Power, similar to Atkins but a little more moderate, I think; and it took me 15.5 months to lose the 125 lbs. I was lucky that I never had any long stalls during my weight loss, so it was a pretty constant and steady rate of loss for me. For me, some of the keys to success were: 1) Setting date goals. Not necessarily "lose 25 lbs. by September 1st" types of goals, but something a little less firm like "fit into a size 14 by September 1st". The goals were motivators in the sense of having something concrete to work toward in bite-sized pieces (important for someone with so much weight to lose, like me), but when they weren't completely weight-oriented, 24 lbs. wouldn't be a failure, whereas "fit into size 14" is more flexible because "fit into" can encompass anything from "squeeze into" to "swim in" ;-). 2) Rewarding myself for reaching certain milestones. I did something small but nice for myself with every 10 lbs. I lost (NEVER make the reward a food thing, though! -- that reinforces old/bad habits), and I treated myself to some kind of spa treatment with every 25 lbs. Whether it's a spa thing or something else is up to you, but having a reward to look forward to is always helpful. It's that old dangling carrot thing. :-) 3) I planned a monthly "cheat" meal (emphasis on planned, as in planned ahead rather than just "giving in" to temptation once a month), so that I'd have something to look forward to... and because I had that on my horizon all the time, I could mentally manage being 100% determined not to eat *anything* off-plan the rest of the time. 4) Keeping a food journal. You don't have to count calories or anything, unless you want to, but writing down what you're eating every day helps you stay accountable. If you're about to eat something you shouldn't, sometimes it's enough to know that you'll have to put that down in black and white at the end of the day to make you re-think that decision! 5) Asking for support from family and friends. Be totally honest with them about what you're doing, how much it means to you to succeed, and how much their support will help you. That often minimizes the "sabotage" types of comments and behaviours up-front, and makes them think twice before they serve some gooey dessert when they have you over for dinner, for example. And if your family and friends aren't being supportive, you need to sit down with them and tell them how their lack of support / sabotage is hurting you... or you just need to avoid them as much as possible until you're stronger. Those are just a few of my thoughts... things that really worked for me and made a big difference. Your mileage may vary! But I'm happy to help where I can, and answer more questions, if it'll help anyone else succeed in weight loss. I'm sooooo much happier and more confident within myself having lost the weight, and the difference losing that weight makes to my arthritis is also tremendous, so I would love to be able to help anyone else feel/find those same benefits! Tracy Tracy-I think you have just made yourself our diet Guru and cheer leader. And thank you for the comments and helpful hints. And for everybody contemplating going on this diet with the group---let's keep it here. This is where we spend our time. This is where we give such wonderful support to each other. And this is very much on topic. Those of you not interested can please, just skip over us. It may be tidier to take this to Yahoo group or something like that. But I really feel it is important to keep it right here. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Can I join in? I desperately need a diet guru and cheerleader. I've got to do something soon about this extra weight, and it has been even worse while on Pred. I'm tapering off Pred now, and Bextra and Plaquenil will take over. I need other's support to persevere with this! Thanks. I'll be tuning in as we do this thing together. Nanny > Tracy-I think you have just made yourself our diet Guru and cheer leader. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green I agree Char. Maybe we can put SoBch in the subject so it would be easy to skip if you wanted to. Or easy to find if you wanted. So many of us are over weight due to this disease and the resulting medications. Finding something which works is going to be a miricle in my case. Duckie > Tracy-I think you have just made yourself our diet Guru and cheer leader. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) It's relatively early in the day and my mood is a little silly. (yesterday was day 1 of the diet for me): As a group, as we the SoBches? If yes, what do we call men in the group? If we are grumpy, are we SoBchy? Can "SoBch!" be used as an expletive? SignatureAdelle D. Stavis, Esq. > I agree Char. Maybe we can put SoBch in the subject so it would be easy > to skip if you wanted to. Or easy to find if you wanted. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green >As a group, as we the SoBches? Absolutely rofl >If yes, what do we call men in the group? hmmmm Gentlemen, what is your preference? >If we are grumpy, are we SoBchy? lol yes >Can "SoBch!" be used as an expletive? Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green >Can "SoBch!" be used as an expletive? Forgot to answer the best one. Absolutely yes. In fact, I think it is mandatory. rofl Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green > It's relatively early in the day and my mood is a little silly. > (yesterday was day 1 of the diet for me): [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If we are grumpy, are we SoBchy? > Can "SoBch!" be used as an expletive? ROFL At first, I was thinking it was a new nickname for the spammers, but then I figured that would be SumBchs. LOL Here in the south, anyway. :-) Mag > I agree Char. Maybe we can put SoBch in the subject so it would be easy > to skip if you wanted to. Or easy to find if you wanted. > So many of us are over weight due to this disease and the resulting > medications. Finding something which works is going to be a miricle in > my case. > Duckie Don't worry about it. I enjoy seeing so many people getting together,,,pulling together to help each other help themselves. It does not work for me because my wife does all the cooking and if any of it is not good for me,,, I have to just not eat any or as much but that does not mean that I do not understand what is taking place. When I saw many of you at the San Antonio get together, I weighed 252 and at the doctors office the other day it was 272. Summer is here in the deep south and its about eating less,,, eating right and walking in the long park that was made for people like me that have to worry about falling on the uneven sidewalks. I do not want to get sued for breaking my neighbors sidewalks. LOL Harv O> I agree Char. Maybe we can put SoBch in the subject so it would be easy > to skip if you wanted to. Or easy to find if you wanted. > So many of us are over weight due to this disease and the resulting > medications. Finding something which works is going to be a miricle in > my case. > Duckie Well, I'd love to be part of diet support, but I think South Beach is out. Mike won't give up bread and pasta, even for 2 weeks, but he has agreed to greater portion control at least. He just returned from a gaming convention where he did very little but sit for 5 days (including the drive) and gained even more weight! Diet support here will help me for myself and for Mike, so his behavior doesn't get me off track too much! LOL relationships are complicated! You know, I actually watched part of Dr Phil yesterday and it was one of his diet shows. he got me so ticked off I've been composing a letter to him in my mind about recognizing the difficulties of dieting when living with a chronic, painful disease. Just food prep can be such an issue some days. SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare > O> I agree Char. Maybe we can put SoBch in the subject so it would be easy > > to skip if you wanted to. Or easy to find if you wanted. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > my mind about recognizing the difficulties of dieting when living with a > chronic, painful disease. Just food prep can be such an issue some days. We are going South Beach, Charlie just doesn't know it yet. I won't ask him to give up bread and rice and pasta, they are available for the teens anyway. I'd get no where suggesting he start a diet the means no beer. Hopefully if it starts to work for me, he will get with the system. He used to brag that he didn't have a beer belly. Well it ain't necessarily so anymore. Its kind of like putting the car up on blocks and still adding gas every day. Jo rofl you go girl... Duckie > We are going South Beach, Charlie just doesn't know it yet. I won't ask him > to give up bread and rice and pasta, they are available for the teens [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jo Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) >Well, I'd love to be part of diet support, but I think South Beach is out. >Mike won't give up bread and pasta, even for 2 weeks, but he has agreed to >greater portion control at least. Myron is going to do this with me and has even promised not to cheat. And he loves bread and potatoes, so this is going to be a real struggle for him. So I am going to need lots and lots of support so I can pass it on to him. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green I am so glad. I find those cheese sticks great because when I am starving and need to still fix a meal, I start eating one of those while I cut up things or cook. And I allow myself 2 TBs of peanut butter a day. It makes me happy. lol There is a lot of stuff that he can substitute. I lay out whole pecan halves to eat with my salads cause it goes crunch and makes me feel like I am eating crackers. Duckie > Myron is going to do this with me and has even promised not to cheat. And he > loves bread and potatoes, so this is going to be a real struggle for him. So I > am going to need lots and lots of support so I can pass it on to him. > Char > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) The other day, when John suggested pasta for dinner and I said I couldn't do that at all for two weeks, he looked perturbed and I managed to burst into tears. Don't do that often so it gets his attention. [I think the last time was when it had snowed so much that I couldn't get the car in the drive way and barely made it over the 3' wall the plow had left.] through the tears I said he had to help or I might as well just give up. hehehe Could you just skip to phase two Nann? And then only buy whole wheat pasta. I will see if I can dig up that food processor bread recipe. If your hands will let you get the lid off and on the thing, then you won't have to kneed it. You can sneak him into the diet inch by inch. It is really about a life style change. And good carbs are part of the big plan. Duckie > Well, I'd love to be part of diet support, but I think South Beach is out. > Mike won't give up bread and pasta, even for 2 weeks, but he has agreed to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > my mind about recognizing the difficulties of dieting when living with a > chronic, painful disease. Just food prep can be such an issue some days. Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) > Could you just skip to phase two Nann? And then only buy whole wheat > pasta. I will see if I can dig up that food processor bread recipe. If > your hands will let you get the lid off and on the thing, then you won't > have to kneed it. You can sneak him into the diet inch by inch. It is > really about a life style change. And good carbs are part of the big plan. Well, he has admitted the need to focus more on vegetables and fruit to get off some of the weight. I'm hitting the market tomorrow to see what looks good and fresh. We'll cut it up ahead of time and it'll be available for stir frying on a moment's notice. for bread, no food processor yet. Current kitchen not big enough to keep it out on the counter and I refuse to have another appliance I have to haul out! When this next move happens, we'll have a bigger kitchen and I plan to buy a bread machine to make our own. He likes healthier breads as long as they are fresh, not factory. I need the diet, but he needs it more, so we're making a start with the portion control and more veggies..... The problem is he'll just buy his own food and cook it if he hasn't agreed to this. And we have lots of white pastas in the cupboard now, bought on good sales at Big Lots. Diud I mention that he will go shopping for food? I love the way you "convinced" John though. It's a toss-up which is better, that or Jo's car up on blocks line! LOL SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare my new and really good boyfriend :-) has agreed to south beach with me! diane >my new and really good boyfriend :-) has agreed to south beach with me! > >diane a new boyfriend? spill girl...spill ;) Kimmy >my new and really good boyfriend :-) has agreed to south beach with me! > >diane That is wonderful!! Now!!! Spill the beans on this new boy friend!!!! Name, age, widowed? divorced? Kids? Pets? Occupation? Is he good enough for you? lol You know, all the stuff we would ask if we were sitting down to coffee with you. lol Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green > my new and really good boyfriend :-) has agreed to south beach with me! > > diane he sounds really good! more info! more! more! you know we has to know! SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare you are a nosy group. but i will comply. i'm hestitant to feel too sure of him (or anyone) due to past experiences, but things are going really well. i feel appreciated--a rare thing. he is my age, never married but had a 20-year-long live in relationship and has remained friends with the woman, which i like, since i am still friends with my ex. he's a photographer making the switch from film-making (for businesses) to commercial and digital art photography and he's very good. he just helped me pick out a great digital camera and he is computer savvy and we all know we need at least one of THOSE people in our lives! he's way smart. i mean WAY. scary smart. no brain fog at all. has retained every fact he ever knew. he had ulcerative colitis for many many years, now in remission, so he knows what it's like to live with chronic disease. he is compassionate and caring. he used to breed bernese mtn dogs (my former dog was a bmd) so he's good with my pup. he's extremely creative and i can talk to him about my storylines and get great feedback. and most important, we both seem to be on the same page with regard to our relationship and hopes and fears. between him and the effexor, i am quite happy! is that enough? diane >! is that enough? Just one more thing.... What kind of camera? LOL Rose (looking for both- a male and a camera) @}>-->>> Please remove "Ima" to reply privately! >What kind of camera? it's a panasonic FZ-10 with a 12X zoom, 4 megapixels. . . and most important for me and i bet for some of you, an image stabilizer. meds and life make my hands tremble. as for how we met. . . good old match.com. as for when. . . he came to a concert my multifaith choir had back in feb. i put him off and put him off, but he hung in there without pressuring me and i started to realize i was passing up a good thing. :-) and char...re baby picture: i am in the process of updating my website again and little nolan will be there, so i'll let you know when that happens. he's my sweetie pie. thanks, all, for caring, diane >>What kind of camera? > >it's a panasonic FZ-10 with a 12X zoom, 4 megapixels. . . and most important >for me and i bet for some of you, an image stabilizer. meds and life make my >hands tremble. That would be great as I do tend to ruin regular photos by being usteady. >as for how we met. . . good old match.com. I tried that once.. Will have to try again. Rose @}>-->>> Please remove "Ima" to reply privately! WOW, Diane, he sounds fabulous. Am so glad he will be your partner in doing the south beach thing! How long have you been seeing each other and how did you guys meet! Donna G Wow! fingers crossed - and we aren't nosy at all diane. Just fact finders. Kelly Congrats, Diane! Sounds like someone jujst made for you- m >Wow! fingers crossed - and we aren't nosy at all diane. Just fact finders. > >Kelly More like caring friends. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green >between him and the effexor, i am quite happy! is that enough? Well------Ok for now. lol Honey, I am really glad you are so happy. You havent felt this way for some time, and it is nice to see you so excited about your life again. Oh and BTW, how is that grandbaby, and did you post a picture and I didnt see it, or worse yet, post it and I saw it, and then the brain fog swept it away? lol Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green You have been holding out on us!! lol Duckie > my new and really good boyfriend :-) has agreed to south beach with me! > > diane Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) ((((((Duckie)))))) I know exactly what you mean about the diet thing. It's just too dang tiring to think about what you can and can't eat, what you're going to prepare, how you're going to prepare it, how much of it you can eat....reading all the stuff, weighing in, keeping track of everything you eat....it just seems like a rat race to me. Call it lazy or apathetic or whatever you want to call it, but it's how I feel. So, you're not alone....just wanted you to know that. The thing that I hate is feeling guilty about feeling this way. UGH! (and that makes me want to have something sweet!!! lol) I've also been trying to beat down a bad attitude that's been creeping up when it comes to doctor's appointments. In fact, I've even been telling nurses and doctors that I have a bad attitude because I've been spending way too much time in medical facilities for way too long. No matter what they tell me to do, it seems like way too much work. Some of them smile when I tell them that, others give me dirty looks. I really don't care what they think. Hang in there, Duckie! : ) Carol ((((((((((((((((carol))))))))))))))) it's the sick and tired of being sick and tired attitude, sweetie and i think we all get there at one point or another. i think some medicos understand that, but it still doesn't stop them from piling the $#!+ on our overwhelmingly full plates anyway. kate > ((((((Duckie)))))) I know exactly what you mean about the diet thing. > It's just too dang tiring to think about what you can and can't eat, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Hang in there, Duckie! : ) > Carol > ((((((((((((((((carol))))))))))))))) it's the sick and tired of being sick > and tired attitude, sweetie and i think we all get there at one point or > another. i think some medicos understand that, but it still doesn't stop > them from piling the $#!+ on our overwhelmingly full plates anyway. I know you know, Kate. I just wish I'd get over it sometime soon, but I need to get rid of all this crappy health stuff first....grrrrr! Hugs, Carol ugh, duckie, i felt down just reading about your day. no fun at all. diane I refuse to participate in anything where 'die' is part of the word. LOL Seriously, though, I just eat reasonably and try to move my body. I can't imagine all the mess of "Can I eat this?" or "Can I eat that?" etc. I got on the scale the other day and the thing yelled, "One at a time, please!" DeeTee ________________________________ DeeTee and Bob Taggart http://www.marykay.com/dtaggart3 http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8fwov/ ________________________________ > Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked > if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. > Duckie ((((Duckie))))) Hang in there my friend. melissa >Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked >if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. >Duckie ((((Big Duckie Hugs)))) I hope you do go dancing and have some fun and sleep for hours on end. Kelly C. > Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked > if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. > Duckie I actually did go dancing which was nice especially since it is the last party until their summer vacation is over - one full+ week. And I went to my last dance lesson until July 6th. I am having withdrawal symptoms just thinking about it. I also discovered that this splint needs to be tweaked because it is a tiny bit too long and she flared out the base which cuts into my upper arm when I do an underarm turn. It needs to be flat and flush with my body. I know why she did it and it would be correct in most cases but this is used only for dancing and that flare at the bottom would also show under the sleeve of a costume. But it fits fine other than that and I did get to go dancing so I am feeling better. Went to sleep a bit earlier but had to get up earlier as well so still need some catching up. If Paku tries to wake me tomorrow, he may just find himself on the other end of my pointed foot. Although I finally have a new trick which works -- I pretend that I am sleeping no matter how loudly he screams while he stands on my stomach. He eventually gets bored and leaves. John asked me how I slept through it the other day. I said 'who was sleeping'. Duckie > ((((Big Duckie Hugs)))) > > I hope you do go dancing and have some fun and sleep for hours on end. > > Kelly C. I said 'who was sleeping'. > Duckie LOLOL Move every now and then to let John or Paku know you are awake. LOLOL SombodyElse ROTFL! kate > I said 'who was sleeping'. > > Duckie > > LOLOL Move every now and then to let John or Paku know you are awake. LOLOL > > SombodyElse lol quack > I said 'who was sleeping'. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > SombodyElse Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) ((((((((Duckie)))))))) I hear you on the diet thing, for sure. I'm trying to work out breakfasts now. Bagels are too many white carbs and no protein. Eggs are out because I still need to tweak my cholesterol numbers a bit with diet. I'm allergic to milk and anything with it, especially with more than just a bit. And my hands don't co-operate with much cooking in the morning. I fear i'm going to have to start keeping cooked chicken around to zap for breakfast. sigh............. maybe your BP is part of the exhaustion? Maybe you'll feel a bit better when you get it back up again. Meanwhile, keep fighting the good fight when you can. And get to your lesson 'cause we know you gotta dance. Do you need someone to drop by and knock you out so you'll sleep for a while? Being that you're in the Boston area, I'm sure we wouldn't have too much trouble hiring someone to do it <beg> BTW, I went to my PCP yesterday after 2 nights of lousy sleeping. Don't know how my BP could be so good on so much caffeine! She was running behind because she had to admit someone to the hospital. Hell, I just lay back on the exam table and zoned out for a while. Cracked her up when she came in! She thoroughly approved. She also told me I definitely can't keep her when we move up north. I figured that, but hoped she'd have some miracle. She's great. And woke up early again today with a throbbing sinus headache...... SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare You should get a copy of the book as eggs are a big yes. This guy is a cardiologist and says the American Heart Assoc. Diet was just not working for his patients. He also personally is hypoglycemic which I am which makes the diet so familiar to me. I would gag if cooked chicken was given to me for breakfast. lol It is the first two weeks that I am worried about but after that good carbs are allowed. Old fashion oatmeal, red wine... BP today was 105/71 -- it is climbing but that is still low so I am still good. Hope you managed some sleep. Duckie > ((((((((Duckie)))))))) I hear you on the diet thing, for sure. I'm trying > to work out breakfasts now. Bagels are too many white carbs and no protein. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > we move up north. I figured that, but hoped she'd have some miracle. She's > great. And woke up early again today with a throbbing sinus headache...... Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) > I would gag if cooked chicken >was given to me for breakfast. lol >Duckie My favorite omelet - diced chicken, bottled salsa and low-fat shredded cheddar cheese. Yum ;) Kimmy > > I would gag if cooked chicken > >was given to me for breakfast. lol [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kimmy So would scrambled egg or egg beaters, and sliced tomato and maybe cottage cheese work for this diet? Jo >So would scrambled egg or egg beaters, and sliced tomato and maybe cottage >cheese work for this diet? > >Jo Actually, that's another breakfast I eat alot. They suggest tomato juice with breakfast but I don't care for it so I do salsa or sliced tomatoes. Kimmy > Actually, that's another breakfast I eat alot. They suggest tomato juice with > breakfast but I don't care for it so I do salsa or sliced tomatoes. > Kimmy I can't drink tomato juice or V8. It makes my tummy nuts. I can eat tomatoes though. My favorite breakfast is an English brekkie of scrambled eggs, bacon and tomato :) Carole :) yes, yes, yes and yes Duckie > So would scrambled egg or egg beaters, and sliced tomato and maybe cottage > cheese work for this diet? > > Jo Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) >> So would scrambled egg or egg beaters, and sliced tomato and maybe >> cottage cheese work for this diet? >> >> Jo I wish I could find good cottage cheese in Washington. In NY, we had Breakstones which I always loved. Out here the cottage cheese looks like it's swimming in a pool of milk. It's so soupy. Why can't we have a firm cottage cheese in Washington? Carole Wonder if you could strain it through a coffee filter set in a strainer? You can do that with yogurt to get it thicker. I have found a cottage cheese in the Whole Foods Grocery which is nice and thick. My daughter who hate cottage cheese likes this stuff. hmmm Horizon? I think that is the name. And watch that you don't pick up the salt free version as it is just uckky. :) Duckie > I wish I could find good cottage cheese in Washington. In NY, we had > Breakstones which I always loved. Out here the cottage cheese looks like > it's swimming in a pool of milk. It's so soupy. Why can't we have a > firm cottage cheese in Washington? > > Carole Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) Ah, OK...I have seen Horizon...I think it's the organic stuff. I'll have to check it out. The regular stuff is really yucky out here...where oh where is Breakstones??? Carole :) > Wonder if you could strain it through a coffee filter set in a strainer? > You can do that with yogurt to get it thicker. I have found a cottage [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is just uckky. :) > Duckie Okay -- just got back from the store and it is horizon yogurt but Friendship cottage cheese. Duckie > Ah, OK...I have seen Horizon...I think it's the organic stuff. I'll > have to check it out. The regular stuff is really yucky out > here...where oh where is Breakstones??? > > Carole :) Carole, you could try calling the breakstone company and ask if any of the grocers in your area carry their product! You also might be able to talk one of your local grocers into carrying it regularly or at least ordering some of it in for you. I have done that in the past! Donna G That's a good idea, Donna :) I'll do it! :)) Maybe I'll start a trend in Washington for Breakstone's cottage cheese :) Carole :) > Carole, you could try calling the breakstone company and ask if any of > the grocers in your area carry their product! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Donna G We don't get Friendship cottage cheese out here. We used to get it in NY, but I haven't seen it out here at all. :( Carole > Okay -- just got back from the store and it is horizon yogurt but > Friendship cottage cheese. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Carole :) > >> So would scrambled egg or egg beaters, and sliced tomato and maybe > >> cottage cheese work for this diet? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Carole Do you have Knudsen in Washington? The only other one I like is Sealtest which is the Safeway store brand. Also cottage cheese will get firmer if you don't use it for several days after you buy it. The closer it gets to the sell by date, the firmer it will get. Still, the best cottage cheese I ever had was sold by the Biltmore Dairy in Ashville, NC before it closed. Very spoiled as a child when the small independent dairies made wonderful cottage cheese and wonderful buttermilk. Nothing like the mass produced stuff now available. Also by home churned butter. Had an Aunt that made it regularly. Jo Omelet's are the only form of egg that I can't stand. I can eat just about any other form but omelet's taste nasty to me. Sort of like they are burned or something. Probably caused they weren't cooked in enough butter. lol And salsa for breakfast -- ewwwww. sigh Duckie >>I would gag if cooked chicken >>was given to me for breakfast. lol [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Kimmy Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) I'll pop in here and say that the 2 weeks are not as bad as you would think. I did manage to lose 12 pounds and I wasn't really hungry...I just wanted chocolate. Joe on the other hand was ready to eat the paneling off the walls at the end of two weeks. So we decided to do WW. We've been successful with WW before. melissa <who is rapidly gaining the 30lbs she lost back ACK!!!> >You should get a copy of the book as eggs are a big yes. This guy is a >cardiologist and says the American Heart Assoc. Diet was just not [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> we move up north. I figured that, but hoped she'd have some miracle. She's >> great. And woke up early again today with a throbbing sinus headache...... > You should get a copy of the book as eggs are a big yes. This guy is a > cardiologist and says the American Heart Assoc. Diet was just not > working for his patients. Unless he can come up with an argument that eggs have only good cholesterol, there's still no way. Lipitor has brought my cholesterol levels down so temptingly close to ideal. Total is fine, just need to tweak the ratio a bit. And I've been eating lots of eggs during the 2 months I've been on Lipitor as we'd been given lots of farm-fresh eggs. I suspect eliminating the egg & bacon breakfast will fix my numbers right up. I want to get the book though, I think Sam's has it for $14 and I paln to drive down there soon. Heh, not until Monday though. They have power boat races this weekend on the river and I ain't driving through that area of town! LOL > I would gag if cooked chicken > was given to me for breakfast. lol Well, I have been working around this milk thing for close to 40 years now so I've had some strange breakfasts. And I feel really lousy these days if I don't get enough protein. It is the first two weeks that I am > worried about but after that good carbs are allowed. Old fashion > oatmeal, red wine... if only Mike weren't so wedded to his pasta and red sauce. It's his always fail-safe meal and one of the meals he'll cook for me rather than vice versa. Gotta start a slow back-handed campaign with him. Lord knows he needs to get rid of some belly fat! If we can even make some changes in diet maybe that will work. > BP today was 105/71 -- it is climbing but that is still low so I am > still good. > Hope you managed some sleep. you and I will soon meet in the middle. From 135/89 last fall, all this exercise at the Y has me running 122/72 or so of late. Big relief. I've always had rock steady normal BP before last fall. Managed to sleep 8 hours last night and had a nap today, but still catching up. Taking a sleeping pill tonight to get to sleep kinda early 'causse I need to get up tomorrow morning! It's time to cook for Sunday's soup kitchen. (don't worry, I'm one of many doing the cooking!) SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare I wouldn't mind trying this south beach diet perhaps at a time when several of you are going to try. Living by myself, I feel like I need someone else to be able to do this with, so if any of you decide to start it, would you mind if I kind of did along with you??? I can't start, though, until after 4th of july. Just found a new recipe for tuna salad made with tuna, black olives, artichoke hearts, some dill or some basil, and a little olive oil. Would those types of things be allowed on the south beach diet? Donna G yep to after the fourth -- for me after the 21st. And that recipe sounds like it would be fine. Not sure when olives are allowed but olive oil is allowed. I need to reread. You and Char could dig up recipes and we could just make this a group effort. Maybe I can do this. If everyone is holding me hand ... :) Duckie > I wouldn't mind trying this south beach diet perhaps at a time when > several of you are going to try. Living by myself, I feel like I need [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Donna G Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) I do the beach Duckie. It's good carbs and good fats instead of low carb/lowfat. You eat tons of food and get snacks so you don't starve. This is a great time of year to start because there are so many fresh veggies. The first two weeks weren't as hard as I thought they were gonna be and if I have a time that I go off - like eating four pounds of Andes mints over the weekend ;) - I just go back to phase one till my cravings stop again. I don't measure or weigh myself. I'm wearing a size smaller in clothes but I don't want the pressure of how many pounds/inches I've lost or haven't lost. I feel better since I've cut out all the processed foods and that's what I was going for. Now if I could get rid of this damned humidity I might feel like getting back to the exercises. Kimmy (<---slogging to the kitchen for some sugar free jello...) >Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked >if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. >Duckie >I do the beach Duckie. It's good carbs and good fats instead of low >carb/lowfat. >I do the beach Duckie. It's good carbs and good fats instead of low >carb/lowfat. >This is a >great time of year to start because there are so many fresh veggies. Kimmy-What about the fresh fruit of summer? Can I have fresh fruit? Melons, peaches, and the like? That is what has kept me off of the Adkins diet. I have a brother who has used Adkins with great success. But it limits ALL carbs. I dont think I can do without my fresh fruit carbs. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green >Kimmy-What about the fresh fruit of summer? Can I have fresh fruit? Melons, >peaches, and the like? That is what has kept me off of the Adkins diet. I >have a brother who has used Adkins with great success. But it limits ALL >carbs. I dont think I can do without my fresh fruit carbs. >Char No fruit the first two weeks. After that you want fresh fruits eaten *with* the skins (for the fiber). Bananas and cherries are limited and pineapple very limited, and you should avoid watermelon. It's kinda screwy at first but you figure it out more as you go. Kimmy >No fruit the first two weeks. After that you want fresh fruits eaten *with* >the >skins (for the fiber). Bananas and cherries are limited and pineapple very >limited, and you should avoid watermelon. >No fruit the first two weeks. After that you want fresh fruits eaten *with* >the >skins (for the fiber). Bananas and cherries are limited and pineapple very >limited, and you should avoid watermelon. ACK!!!!!!! I see a major problem here. Damn!!! My favorite part of summer is all the fresh fruit that is available. I usually keep a huge bowl of fruit (watermelon, canteloup, honey dew, kiwi, cherries, grapes, blueberries, etc, etc) in the refrigerator nearly all the time. And watermelon is one of the main ingredients. DAMN!! I will willingly give up a lot of things to have my fruit. But my fruit? I am not sure I can. Sound like a junky dont I? I guess I AM a carb junkie. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green LOL I empathize, Char. We tried eating high protein, low carb once when I was in high school. It lasted until the fresh citrus came in. One orange was all your carbs for the day. And here we were surrounded by grove-fresh oranges, tangerines, grapefruit..... so much for low carb. LOL Hey, I have this magazine I picked up at the Y, one of those that I never buy :) It has an article about some actress who eats lots fruit to help control her weight, but eats some every couple of hours. I'll photocopy it and send it to you. You might be able to adapt for yourself. I've been playing with the idea myself, but haven't worked out getting the protein I need yet. May have helped that with the smoked turkey cold cuts I bought yesterday. And remember, fruit is good carbs. Lots of fiber and nutrients for your carbs. When you're in trouble is when you can't give up your white pasta, white rice and bakery bread even when it's white and there are good whole grain breads available! That's my DH, who freely admits he eats a high-carb, high-fat diet. He does better if I keep lots of fresh fruit around though. SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare > ACK!!!!!!! I see a major problem here. Damn!!! > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green > LOL I empathize, Char. We tried eating high protein, low carb once when I > was in high school. It lasted until the fresh citrus came in. One orange [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > grain breads available! That's my DH, who freely admits he eats a high-carb, > high-fat diet. He does better if I keep lots of fresh fruit around though. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my DH. Charlie is a great believer in keeping the best fresh fruits and vegetables around. He just came home from the farmers market an hour ago with tomatoes and dead ripe white peaches and lemon cucumbers. We have a box of nectarines in the garage a friend brought from the orchard yesterday. But he almost never actually eats any of these things. I have to admit he has the girls and the grandsons hooked and he makes a mean cobbler. This is really why we live here. When I was about five an uncle moved into this area and wrote glowing letters to my grandmother about how this was truly the land of milk and honey, and praising it no end. When we left Alaska and were given a choice of final assignments for the Air Force I remembered those letters. So here we are. Jo Char, maybe you could do a modified version of the south beach. Modify it so that if works for both you and Myron and you can do it together! Donna G > He just came home >from the farmers market an hour ago with tomatoes and dead ripe white >peaches and lemon cucumbers. We have a box of nectarines in the garage a >friend brought from the orchard yesterday. Now you did it!! I just drooled all over my key board!! Gawd, I envy you! Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Hmmmm.......what are lemon cucumbers? They sound interesting and yummy! Donna G > I'm trying to figure out what to do with my DH. Charlie is a great believer > in keeping the best fresh fruits and vegetables around. He just came home [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > eats any of these things. I have to admit he has the girls and the > grandsons hooked and he makes a mean cobbler. Interesting problem....... never had much trouble with Mike not eating much of anything! LOL He's pretty much an omnivore, though he swears he'll never order goose feet and sea cucumber at a Chinese restaurant again. I love tomatoes and adore white peaches, but don't know lemon cucumbers. Sound good, heck I usually eat cucmber with lemon juice anyway. SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare >'ll photocopy it and send >it to you. Thanks, hon. I will watch for it. Char "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Not for the first two weeks but yes after that. When I looked at the PCP with skepticism, she said 'it is not like Atkins -- I don't like Atkins for my patients." And Char, the book is half recipes. :) Duckie > Kimmy-What about the fresh fruit of summer? Can I have fresh fruit? Melons, > peaches, and the like? That is what has kept me off of the Adkins diet. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) I was surfing earlier today and there are quite a few free recipes online as well :) Carole :) > Not for the first two weeks but yes after that. When I looked at the PCP > with skepticism, she said 'it is not like Atkins -- I don't like Atkins > for my patients." And Char, the book is half recipes. :) > Duckie > Not for the first two weeks but yes after that. When I looked at the PCP > with skepticism, she said 'it is not like Atkins -- I don't like Atkins > for my patients." And Char, the book is half recipes. :) > Duckie I was looking at it at Target today. And it also had a reciepe book next to it. I've really got to do something. Jo > > Kimmy-What about the fresh fruit of summer? Can I have fresh fruit? Melons, > > peaches, and the like? That is what has kept me off of the Adkins diet. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > > "Remember, I'm pulling for ya'. We're all in this together." Red Green > I was looking at it at Target today. And it also had a reciepe book next to > it. I've really got to do something. > > Jo Me too Jo. Check out sites on the net though. The basic plan is out there with a lot of recipes. I put myself on the hold list at the library for the book but I think there are 67 ahead of me. Of course, they have about 15 copies so it might not be that bad, especially if it's still classified as a 7 day book. Until then, I'm going back on good old OA grey sheet. It has never failed me. Carole :) Andes mints??? rofl So was I your enabler? Well, we are going to SF in mid July so I guess I will wait until we return because I am not spending the first two weeks on this with one of them in SF. But you are making sound as if it is possible. Duckie > I do the beach Duckie. It's good carbs and good fats instead of low > carb/lowfat. You eat tons of food and get snacks so you don't starve. This is a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kimmy (<---slogging to the kitchen for some sugar free jello...) LOL - no, I'm just really, really weak. (hangs head, looks guilty) Man, oh man - I love those things. Good choice to wait till after vacation ;) Feel better. Kimmy >Andes mints??? rofl So was I your enabler? >Well, we are going to SF in mid July so I guess I will wait until we >return because I am not spending the first two weeks on this with one of >them in SF. But you are making sound as if it is possible. >Duckie > Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked > if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the > book and read it. Just read it. Okay I say. Is that an expensive diet to go on? So many diets these days talk about how much you can eat, etc. but if I have to buy all that food, I won't be able to pay the rent. I'm still on food stamps so $$ is limited. I do know that I have to get some of this weight off. Last week when I was away (I had a fabulous time!) but getting from one building to the other was a real chore. Our dorm was down the road from the building with our classrooms and in my younger days I would have walked it...I had to drive. It was rather embarrassing. I ended up pretending that I had to go somewhere before breakfast so that when people saw me driving, they would think that I had come from town instead of the dorm. I'll see if the library has the book and have a read of it. I know I feel better when I cut out the sugar and white flour. I think I felt the best when I was on the ages old OA food plan from many, many years ago. I just don't know if I have what it takes to do it now. Maybe we could have an email support group for those who want to give it a try? Carole > Maybe we could have an email support group for those who want to give it > a try? I've been thinking about trying to put us on it, but separating Mike from his pasta even for the 2 week initial period while be a fight. I need to read the book and see if I can do it without trying to put him on it. Probably can with more planning. I need to do something. Losing height makes me more overweight! SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare You can have a reasonable portion of past if it is whole grain pasta, not the typical semolina stuff. SignatureAdelle D. Stavis, Esq. > > Maybe we could have an email support group for those who want to give it > > a try? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > can with more planning. I need to do something. Losing height makes me more > overweight! I am not sure at the moment about expensive. I think it would be a matter of leaving off certain things and buying others. No chips and cereal; lots of veggies... BTW, I sent you a copy of my book, a cd and some other stuff via priority mail. You should have it sometime next week I'm guessing. Duckie > Is that an expensive diet to go on? So many diets these days talk about > how much you can eat, etc. but if I have to buy all that food, I won't [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Carole Signature_('> (_<_) _ _('< -quack (_<_) _ __('< *QUACK!* <_{__) _('< "|,,|_" (_<_) _('< "AFLAC!" (_<_) Ok, Duckie..will let you know when it arrives :) Veggies are pretty cheap now as all the farm stands are open around here and competing for our wittle dollars :) I wish they took food stamps as the cost of produce is a lot less at the stands than it is in the foodstore. Ditto for milk! At the farm stand, it's $1.99 a gallon, and at the foodstore it's $3.99...go figure! Carole :) > I am not sure at the moment about expensive. I think it would be a > matter of leaving off certain things and buying others. No chips and [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Carole Gee, was hoping that by switching to Lahey, there would be less of that bureaucratic, patients are scum attitude. Sorry it was such a rotten day. As for So. Beach - read it while I was on Atkins. Made a lot of sense on a biochemical level. I'm seriously thinking about it. Should we seriously think about it together? [Then again, I'm also thinking about medifast. Extremely low calorie. Not the best course, but I've gained back all I lost last summer and fall and my daughter's bat mitzvah is getting closer and closer.] LBP will make you feel tired. Can you add sodium and extra fluids to your diet? Dehydration and LBP are linked for me, how about you? Adelle > Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my weight and she asked > if I had seen the South Beach Diet. sigh No I say. Well, just get the [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > tonight. Tomorrow is another day. Lord I hope I can get some sleep tonight. > Duckie Well, notice that I haven't mentioned that attitude except for OT dragons. I have also had a bit a trouble with the general internal medicine's dragons but they have change how some things are handled now and I get straight through to my PCP's secretary when I call now. That is a huge change. Someone needs to tell on the OT's dragons but since there is no doctor in that department, the department runs along by itself. I mean, for instance, my hand surgeon's secretary hand carried the orders over herself and made the appointment. Must mean she knows that you have to twack them with a personal 2X4 with the doctor's permission to have something happen over there. The book says that you will lose 8-15 pounds in the first two weeks. And it is not low calorie, just retraining your blood sugar pattern. I have to say it is definitely an interesting read. Also mentioned the belly fat would come right off -- now that seems like a really good thing to me. :) I have always had problems when I become dehydrated. My mind doesn't function properly. Actually carried an old and very heavy dehumidifier upstairs to our bedroom -- before air conditioning and lay down on the bed while that thing spewed more hot air into the room. John came home to find me way too hot and managed to get me into the shower for a cold bath to bring my body temp down. Then a couple of glasses of water. He still brings that up when he gets a chance. Of course he was at work all day in air conditioning while I was not. ;) PCP did say that extra fluid would help bring up my BP so you are totally right. Duckie > Gee, was hoping that by switching to Lahey, there would be less of that > bureaucratic, patients are scum attitude. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > diet? Dehydration and LBP are linked for me, how about you? > Adelle > Well, it was an interesting visit. I brought up my wei |
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