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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2008OTP: Socialized medicine
Originally posted in alt.support.cancer.prostate >> The second factor, which also affects Medicaid, is the growing >> cost of medical care ... something has to be done about it or >> the health care system will just collapse. > "Managed care" is not very good at delivering health care > service, or holding down administrative costs (which have > gone way up). But it's great at squeezing both doctors and > patients. And the more it does, the more we see doctors regretting their career choice, leaving practice, and advising their children against it (and the more often pts hear "We don't cover that procedure for people your age. *You're not worth it.*"). How's THAT going to help provide the extra doctors a flooded socialized medicine system requires (and at what age should managed health care deny a prostatectomy or hip replacement)? I.e., how will regulatory lower pay and greater demand coexist? Systems with negative feedback decline rather than flourish, whether it's (over)managed health care or the economy (taxes are classical negative feedback, and guess who has repeatedly promised on stage to double or even triple them). I.P. Freely ... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Originally posted in alt.support.cancer.prostate >> The second factor, which also affects Medicaid, is the growing >> cost of medical care ... something has to be done about it or >> the health care system will just collapse. > "Managed care" is not very good at delivering health care > service, or holding down administrative costs (which have > gone way up). But it's great at squeezing both doctors and > patients. And the more it does, the more we see doctors regretting their career choice, leaving practice, and advising their children against it (and the more often pts hear "We don't cover that procedure for people your age. *You're not worth it.*"). How's THAT going to help provide the extra doctors a flooded socialized medicine system requires (and at what age should managed health care deny a prostatectomy or hip replacement)? I.e., how will regulatory lower pay and greater demand coexist? Systems with negative feedback decline rather than flourish, whether it's (over)managed health care or the economy (taxes are classical negative feedback, and guess who has repeatedly promised on stage to double or even triple them). what's with this falacious doubling/tripling of taxes fear routine being repeated over and over again as if it were fact? i haven't heard any of the 3 candidates specifically promise that and i try to stay reasonably well-informed about what they are saying. when the 1968-1974 federal administration approved HMOs and promoted kaiser permanente, it was because the president liked the fact that profits could be increased by denying health care to patients (you can read the transcripts of his tapes to verifty this for yourself. i have). This was the beginning of the slide down the slippery slope to where we are today, with regard to fewer and fewer doctors. as hmos grew in size and popularity, they absorbed more of the patients and more of the health care plan coverages purchased by employers. more and more medical school graduates, doctors, were forced to begin their practices at hmos, for lower entry level wages (than private practices would provide--and in our state that hmo entry level wage is about $60,000 per year.), because they were saddled with debt from their educations. it is expensive to start a private practice and if you are already saddled with huge debt, you can't remotely afford to establish a private practice. many doctors have to work at these lower hmo or medical group wages and pay off their education debt, before they can even consider partnering up with other doctors to begin a partnership practice. and then it takes years as a partner, before they can raise enough money to establish their own private practice. this is partly what is discouraging doctors and causing them to discourage others from medicine as a career. kate ... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 > doctors to begin a partnership practice. and then it takes years as a > partner, before they can raise enough money to establish their own private > practice. this is partly what is discouraging doctors and causing them to > discourage others from medicine as a career. > > kate and we want to kick their a.s,,,, we want for them to stay where they are??? We need change because we are not being taken care of?? What is being said here???? Harv > doctors to begin a partnership practice. and then it takes years as a > partner, before they can raise enough money to establish their own private > practice. this is partly what is discouraging doctors and causing them to > discourage others from medicine as a career. > > kate and we want to kick their a.s,,,, we want for them to stay where they are??? We need change because we are not being taken care of?? What is being said here???? Harv harv, all i was saying was that this is "partly" (meaning one, just one, of the reasons), as expressed to me by my pain management doctor, for doctors discouraging others from entering medical school. kate >Originally posted in alt.support.cancer.prostate > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >kate Where do you get this stuff? Yes doctors have debt but that isn't keeping people from becoming doctors. The fact is that there are not enough medical schools to produce the amount of doctors needed. Secondly it's the insurance companies that drive doctors into partnerships. It's the only way they can afford the staff it takes to deal with all the red tape that various insurance companies put them through. I have an $8000 dollar bill sitting in front of me simply because our company switched carriers January 1st and BC/BS is our new carrier. They are making me become re certified again for the ongoing treatment I am having. They are so inept that the process is to send in the claim to Mass. who enters it into their computer, then MAILS it to BC/BS of Illinois. It has been nearly 3.5 months and Illinois still doesn't have the claim even though my doctor has responded 3 times with the same info requested. Twice he has taken time out to write a personal letter.. It will eventually be straightened out (I hope) but meanwhile my doctor is out $8000 bucks. This kind of crap happens constantly and is the reason that more and more doctors are joining the chorus for single payer health care. And I have a SUPER plan. Imagine what others go through. Thumper >... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:58:42 -0700, "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote: >Originally posted in alt.support.cancer.prostate > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > >kate Where do you get this stuff? Yes doctors have debt but that isn't keeping people from becoming doctors. ***if you re-read what i wrote, i said "partly". The fact is that there are not enough medical schools to produce the amount of doctors needed. ***historically, there has always been a shortage of medical school slots to be filled by applicants. this is nothing new. Secondly it's the insurance companies that drive doctors into partnerships. It's the only way they can afford the staff it takes to deal with all the red tape that various insurance companies put them through. ***that is not the sole reason for practice partnerships being formed, currently nor going back many, many decades. there are many other reasons and payrolls are simply one reason. the reasons are much more complex than pinning the blame on one source. I have an $8000 dollar bill sitting in front of me simply because our company switched carriers January 1st and BC/BS is our new carrier. They are making me become re certified again for the ongoing treatment I am having. They are so inept that the process is to send in the claim to Mass. who enters it into their computer, then MAILS it to BC/BS of Illinois. It has been nearly 3.5 months and Illinois still doesn't have the claim even though my doctor has responded 3 times with the same info requested. Twice he has taken time out to write a personal letter.. It will eventually be straightened out (I hope) but meanwhile my doctor is out $8000 bucks. This kind of crap happens constantly and is the reason that more and more doctors are joining the chorus for single payer health care. And I have a SUPER plan. Imagine what others go through. ***obviously, you are not the only patient experiencing this kind of thing. it's been two years and one of my bills is still trying to be sorted out by my insurance and my provider. but this kind of thing is an insurance/provider process issue, a broken process that needs fixing. but even fixing that issue is not going to make doctors fat, dumb and happy, because there are a lot of other issues that make practicing medicine difficult. kate Thumper >... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 >On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 12:58:42 -0700, "d'huit" ><threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >***historically, there has always been a shortage of medical school slots to >be filled by applicants. this is nothing new. It is relatively new. Until the 60's most doctors were trained by the Army >Secondly it's the insurance companies that drive doctors into >partnerships. It's the only way they can afford the staff it takes to >deal with all the red tape that various insurance companies put them >through. > >***that is not the sole reason for practice partnerships being formed, Did I say it was the sole reason? >currently nor going back many, many decades. there are many other reasons >and payrolls are simply one reason. the reasons are much more complex than [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >***obviously, you are not the only patient experiencing this kind of thing. I didn't say I was. I used this as an example because I can testify to it's truthfulness. Thumper >it's been two years and one of my bills is still trying to be sorted out by >my insurance and my provider. but this kind of thing is an >insurance/provider process issue, a broken process that needs fixing. but >even fixing that issue is not going to make doctors fat, dumb and happy, >because there are a lot of other issues that make practicing medicine >difficult. No kidding >kate > >Thumper >> >>... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! >>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:21:46 -0700, "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote: <snip> >Where do you get this stuff? Yes doctors have debt but that isn't >keeping people from becoming doctors. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >to >be filled by applicants. this is nothing new. It is relatively new. Until the 60's most doctors were trained by the Army that is incorrect. it may be true that most "army doctors" were trained by the army, however. but you can prove me wrong, by coming up with supportive data for your claim, if you wish and i'll stand corrected. i suppose you could google a list of all medical schools in the US and go through them one by one to determine when each was established and how many doctors each of them graduated over the course of their existence, prior to 1960. then we can compare those numbers to the number of doctors graduated by the army, prior to the 1960s. but i'm sure the army numbers can't come close to the aggregate med school numbers. there are many many medical schools in the united states. >Secondly it's the insurance companies that drive doctors into >partnerships. It's the only way they can afford the staff it takes to >deal with all the red tape that various insurance companies put them >through. > >***that is not the sole reason for practice partnerships being formed, Did I say it was the sole reason? ***no, but you didn't say it wasn't, either, leaving that to be inferred from your statement. >currently nor going back many, many decades. there are many other reasons >and payrolls are simply one reason. the reasons are much more complex than [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >***obviously, you are not the only patient experiencing this kind of thing. I didn't say I was. I used this as an example because I can testify to it's truthfulness. ***no, you didn't and i stated as much with the word, "obviously". Thumper >it's been two years and one of my bills is still trying to be sorted out by >my insurance and my provider. but this kind of thing is an >insurance/provider process issue, a broken process that needs fixing. but >even fixing that issue is not going to make doctors fat, dumb and happy, >because there are a lot of other issues that make practicing medicine >difficult. No kidding ***no kidding. >kate > >Thumper >> >>... Annoy a liberal - think for yourself! >>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 |
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