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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / March 2008

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Otp   What was said and a way of life for these people

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Harvey R. Stone - 05 Mar 2008 23:51 GMT
http://www.greatquotesmovie.com/.
d'huit - 07 Mar 2008 01:39 GMT
   http://www.greatquotesmovie.com/.

memorable refections, of these kinds, are often a retrospective
self-awareness of how one has lived one's life.  but sometimes and sadly,
that is not the case.  sometimes it is a regret-filled wish, of how one
would have liked to have lived.  either way, though, as was said by the
greeks, an unexamined life isn't worth living--and i, personally, think we
learn as much, for ourselves, from either kind of the retrospective
reflections of others.

just sharing--i've always loved bessie stanley's poetic reflections (ca.,
1900-ish) and think it is my favorite, about:

success

to laugh often and much;
to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children;
to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false
friends;
to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others;
to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch
or a redeemed social condition;
to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
this is to have succeeded.

kate
Harvey R. Stone - 07 Mar 2008 03:19 GMT
>    http://www.greatquotesmovie.com/.
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
> this is to have succeeded.

> kate

:-)  I have had to read your words twice.   I was afraid that I might miss
the complication of deep thoughts that come from your complicated mind.   My
youngest daughter married a young man from England with a doctors degree in
English as my daughter does.   He is also a poet and a very complicated
person.   I really enjoy being around him and I see why she became
interested in him.
  My point is that only late in life have become smart enough to enjoy the
depth of words used in poetry and to know someone that has a mind that works
well with words is a blessing.    Now I am twice blessed to have touched
minds that think such thoughts,,,,, you and my son in law.
thanks
Harv
d'huit - 07 Mar 2008 05:17 GMT
>    http://www.greatquotesmovie.com/.
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived.
> this is to have succeeded.

> kate

:-)  I have had to read your words twice.   I was afraid that I might miss
the complication of deep thoughts that come from your complicated mind.   My
youngest daughter married a young man from England with a doctors degree in
English as my daughter does.   He is also a poet and a very complicated
person.   I really enjoy being around him and I see why she became
interested in him.
  My point is that only late in life have become smart enough to enjoy the
depth of words used in poetry and to know someone that has a mind that works
well with words is a blessing.    Now I am twice blessed to have touched
minds that think such thoughts,,,,, you and my son in law.
thanks
Harv

you honor me, my friend.  (perhaps, a little more than i am worthy of, as i
kind of think it is simply my wordiness that tends to make me appear
complex.<smile>)  thank you for this, harv, for your generosity of spirit
and kindness towards me.

your daughter and you sound very fortunate to have this young man in your
lives.  poets tend to have multi-dimensional ways of looking at most things
and expressing those layered perceptions with as many layered meanings in
their choice of words and where they put them in context (but usually, only
expressed in their own poetry or in their interpretation of poetry written
by others.<smile>)--often, poets aren't even aware of the magic they've
created, until somebody else points it out to them.  i'd love to read some
of his poems, if he would be willing.

btw, you've always been "smart enough", harv.  my guess would be that you
were simply very busy, doing all that you did and do; and that finding the
time to simply be open to the depth of words was not something you felt you
could afford at those junctures . . . until now.  i tend to think we all get
that busy, at times.

kate
Harvey R. Stone - 07 Mar 2008 15:34 GMT
> btw, you've always been "smart enough", harv.  my guess would be that you
> were simply very busy, doing all that you did and do; and that finding the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> kate

Hhhhm, maybe so,,,, I know that touching peoples lives can be a very
rewarding experience.    It really is about how they are touched and does it
make their life better or worse.   I know that people will take the same
words and thoughts and come away with a different experience and apply what
has been said to their lives in different ways.     Its like teaching Sunday
school.  The teacher learns the most from what takes place and if a child
applies just a small part of what has been said to their lives,,,,, to
understand and see what is taking place in their life is the greatest reward
of all.   It must be the same way a teacher in school feels when they see
what takes place in a students life.   So it goes.
Harv
Diane - 07 Mar 2008 05:30 GMT
harv, i think you meant to say that only late in life have YOU become
smart enough to enjoy the depth of words used in poetry, but I read
your sentence to mean that only late in life do any of us have the
capacity to enjoy poetry. that resonated for me, because i really
loathed poetry until the last decade or so. i'm always amazed at young
people who truly "get it," and at my partner, john, who can still
recite word for word poetry he learned and treasured in high school.
but like so much in life, it takes on a different meaning with age. i
feel lucky, as you do, to finally be able to appreciate and find
meaning in poetry.

and kate, i printed out the bessie stanley poem for my bulletin board.
thanks for sharing.

diane
d'huit - 07 Mar 2008 07:42 GMT
harv, i think you meant to say that only late in life have YOU become
smart enough to enjoy the depth of words used in poetry, but I read
your sentence to mean that only late in life do any of us have the
capacity to enjoy poetry. that resonated for me, because i really
loathed poetry until the last decade or so. i'm always amazed at young
people who truly "get it," and at my partner, john, who can still
recite word for word poetry he learned and treasured in high school.
but like so much in life, it takes on a different meaning with age. i
feel lucky, as you do, to finally be able to appreciate and find
meaning in poetry.

and kate, i printed out the bessie stanley poem for my bulletin board.
thanks for sharing.

diane

you're welcome, diane.

now you have me thinking and recalling, diane.  trying to understand
something and thinking aloud on the screen.  y'know, i seriously loathed and
utterly avoided reading throughout much of elementary school, because it was
so tediously difficult for me; reading made no sense to me.  i simply
couldn't connect to it.  loved math (and music which i had a little knack
for, and loved most everything else), because i could see math was
practical/applicable and it made sense to me.  i think math simply came
easily to me and i could see math in everything and everybody around me.
heck, i reduced almost everything in my life to math.

it wasn't until my elder sister was studying shakespeare and shared it with
me, that my reading anything made any sense at all to me.  i'm thinking back
. . . i think what made the difference was that i could hear shakespeare's
musical voice in his words (or was that the math in his voice and in his
poetry?).  i couldn't make that connection to what felt like disembodied and
unconnected words in essays, textbooks, novels and such.  there are still
books, that when i read them, if i can't find/settle on the author's voice
(or the author severely breaks the character's voice or breaks narrative
voice) i struggle with them.  then, i have to re-read paragraphs, sometimes
several times to comprehend (i read far more prose than poetry).  must be a
"the way some minds work" kind of thing?

did you mean you thought harv meant, "smart enough to value it enough to
enjoy it" or "aware enough to appreciate its value" or what?  i'm confused,
cuz i was still comprehending what you wrote the way i first read harv's
statement, like he didn't believe he was intelligent enough and i knew he
was (cuz i know people way far less intelligent than you or harv, who are
very in tune with poetry).  i mean the first part you wrote, not the
capacity part.  i got that part, which triggered what i wrote about when i
was a child (meaning and reduced to, i didn't have the capacity for prose,
apparently).

in tune!  hear it!  ear! aha!  it takes an ear, not necessarily being smart
to enjoy poetry!  maybe an ear has to be tuned-in for poetry, like it has to
be for singing a piece of music.  maybe?  i just now remembered how it was
drummed into our english majors' heads, by college profs, that most poetry
is meant to be read aloud, with the exception of visual poems (that's
visual, as in layout on the page, not imagery).  sorry for blathering so
much.

kate
Harvey R. Stone - 07 Mar 2008 15:41 GMT
> harv, i think you meant to say that only late in life have YOU become
> smart enough to enjoy the depth of words used in poetry, but I read
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> diane

Oh my,,,,  I meant as it applies to myself,,,, not everyone else.   I get
shown everyday how stupid I am and how I should of done better when I was
much younger.   :-)  thanks for your thoughts.
Harv
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 20:56 GMT
> harv, i think you meant to say that only late in life have YOU become
> smart enough to enjoy the depth of words used in poetry, but I read
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> diane

Oh my,,,,  I meant as it applies to myself,,,, not everyone else.   I get
shown everyday how stupid I am and how I should of done better when I was
much younger.   :-)  thanks for your thoughts.
Harv

ouch!  ((((((((((((((((((harv))))))))))))))))  please don't be so hard on
yourself.  we are all often forced to make choices throughout our lives,
guy.  we simply try to do the best we can with the tools we have
accumulated, with what we know (not what we don't know), with where we
actually are emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually and materially,
and with the situations presented to us.  it all comes into play and those
are a lot of changing variables, at every and any stage in our lives.
rarely, and i mean very rarely, do we possess any control over outcome.

kate
sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 08 Mar 2008 21:16 GMT
"we simply try to do the best we can with the tools we have
accumulated, with what we know (not what we don't know), with where we
actually are emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually and materially,
and with the situations presented to us."
This is what I tell folks on the Alzheimers newsgroup.  When that happens,
there is nothing to feel guilt about or worry about--just like here.
Gwen

>> harv, i think you meant to say that only late in life have YOU become
>> smart enough to enjoy the depth of words used in poetry, but I read
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> kate
Harvey R. Stone - 08 Mar 2008 22:30 GMT
> "we simply try to do the best we can with the tools we have
> accumulated, with what we know (not what we don't know), with where we
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>>
>> kate

 Hhhhm,  I agree with you.   That does not change the things that has
happened that I might of done more or less to change an outcome.   I have
allowed between a third to a half of my lung capacity to be lost while
thinking I have kept myself up to date on what takes place with a person who
has RA.   This disease attacks our body and finds the weak spot.   I have
had more than one doctor tell me how well my condition is doing having what
I have for soooo many years.
   Guess what,,,, the disease wins,,,,   but  ,,,,  then again,,, I have
already lived four more years than my 1st RD said I would soooo why should I
complain.  I will tell you why I complain,,,  I still have things that I
want to do,,, places I want to go,,, people I want to meet.   I have to
admit to myself that I can only do what RA allows me to do. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
The real world slaps me again.  I am trying to accept what is taking place
in this world and do the best I can with the way things really are as I come
closer to being in the arms of my Lord and taking part in the next world
that I believe in.  I am going to go down kicking and stugggling to be a
part of this world and make this world a better place for people that have
not gotten a grip on what the next world is all about and how to live better
in this world.   Hhhhm,  Sorry, to unload on you this way,,,, I am just
putting into words the struggles in my mind in dealing with what is taking
place in my life.

Harv
d'huit - 09 Mar 2008 00:45 GMT
>> Oh my,,,,  I meant as it applies to myself,,,, not everyone else.   I get
>> shown everyday how stupid I am and how I should of done better when I was
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> kate

 Hhhhm,  I agree with you.   That does not change the things that has
happened that I might of done more or less to change an outcome.   I have
allowed between a third to a half of my lung capacity to be lost while
thinking I have kept myself up to date on what takes place with a person who
has RA.   This disease attacks our body and finds the weak spot.   I have
had more than one doctor tell me how well my condition is doing having what
I have for soooo many years.
   Guess what,,,, the disease wins,,,,   but  ,,,,  then again,,, I have
already lived four more years than my 1st RD said I would soooo why should I
complain.  I will tell you why I complain,,,  I still have things that I
want to do,,, places I want to go,,, people I want to meet.   I have to
admit to myself that I can only do what RA allows me to do. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.
The real world slaps me again.  I am trying to accept what is taking place
in this world and do the best I can with the way things really are as I come
closer to being in the arms of my Lord and taking part in the next world
that I believe in.  I am going to go down kicking and stugggling to be a
part of this world and make this world a better place for people that have
not gotten a grip on what the next world is all about and how to live better
in this world.   Hhhhm,  Sorry, to unload on you this way,,,, I am just
putting into words the struggles in my mind in dealing with what is taking
place in my life.

Harv

(((((((((((((((((((((harv))))))))))))))))))  not to worry about unloading.
knowing where the unloading is coming from isn't like being blindsided.  and
it's perfectly ok to put the struggles into words--that's what we're here
for.

hey, guy.  you have every right to be angry and complain about this stuff,
because you have a lot you still want to do that's important to you.

but quit blaming yourself and beating yourself up for the results of this
disease.  you sure as heck didn't go shopping at the mall for RA!  and that
you've already lived 4 years longer than expected, with more to come,
clearly shows that you did do a good job in dealing with it over the long
haul.  my kudos to you, guy!  and pat yourself on the back for it!

one moment at a time, harv, one day at a time.

kate
Kelly - 09 Mar 2008 01:58 GMT
And if one day at a time is too much go for an hour at a time!  You done
good Harvey and still have lots of time to do the things you want to do.
Medicine has changed dramatically in the last 10 years for RA and before
then really was a crapshoot in a way. And as Kate said you didn't go looking
for this and nothing you did caused this.  Scream - we understand.  Fight -
we will be right beside you helping with what you need - whether information
on oxygen or with using that darn parking pass.  Cry - we have lots of
kleenex but we won't let you use them forever as others will need the box
too.  A beer - well we could probably even suppy that if it will help - one
won't hurt too bad.

That is why you are here - we do understand.  And Harv again as Kate said
you are doing a great job in dealing with this over the long haul.  The
hardest job is the one you are doing - talking to others and trying to find
a way to get through.

kelly

>>> Oh my,,,,  I meant as it applies to myself,,,, not everyone else.   I
>>> get
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> kate
Nann Bell - 09 Mar 2008 21:27 GMT
no need to apologize for "unloading", Harv.  I think you did an eloquent and
effective job of stating the struggles and conflicts we all go through in
trying to manage and balance our health issues to have as much good living as
we can.  And if it weren't for that attitude and determination to do more
things, go more places and meet more people, you wouldn't have made it
through this far.  May that determination keep you going for quite a while
longer!

(ya know, my first RD told me he wished more of his patients had my attitude
of having to much to do to "give in" to the disease.  I hope he sees more of
it now - I KNOW there's oodles of that approach in this group of folks!)

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Nann
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Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

>   Hhhhm,  I agree with you.   That does not change the things that has
> happened that I might of done more or less to change an outcome.   I have
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Harv

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