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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / March 2008

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Regarding Disabled Parking

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Carole - 04 Mar 2008 17:25 GMT
This is the response I got from Washington's Dept of Licensing -

"Thank you for your email to Director Liz Luce regarding parking on the
campus of Western Washington University.  The Director's office has
asked me to respond to you directly.

In cases where students and/or employees are required to pay for their
parking, whether on private property or state, everyone is required to
pay the monthly parking fee, including persons with disabled parking
privileges.

An example is:  I work on the state capital campus and park in a covered
parking garage.  All employees who wish to park in the garage must pay a
monthly parking fee, including people with disabled parking privileges.
 Persons with disabled parking privileges are granted parking spaces
close to the entrances of the state building and have reserved parking
stalls.  However, the monthly parking fee is still required.

If you wish to continue using the disabled parking stalls on campus, you
are required to pay the parking fees."

OK, so when I'm elected President, I will disband all fees for disabled
parking. And I'll make sure that everyone who parks in a disabled space
gets a big piece of chocolate!! Now how many votes do I get? :-))))

Carole
Squirrely - 06 Mar 2008 06:55 GMT
Yes I will vote for you, I will be your campaign manager if you give me more
candy than the others. ;-) LOL

In fact if you get me a cadbury egg, I will give you 100 votes. ;-)

Signature

Love and Hugs to all
Jo the squirrely one
I am nuts about you.

>
> OK, so when I'm elected President, I will disband all fees for disabled
> parking. And I'll make sure that everyone who parks in a disabled space
> gets a big piece of chocolate!! Now how many votes do I get? :-))))
>
> Carole
Gary Z - 06 Mar 2008 14:20 GMT
I will vote for you too, but I MUST have dark chocolate!!
GaryZ

> Yes I will vote for you, I will be your campaign manager if you give me
> more candy than the others. ;-) LOL
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> Carole
Carole - 06 Mar 2008 17:39 GMT
> I will vote for you too, but I MUST have dark chocolate!!
> GaryZ

Of course, Gary :)  I will have all kinds available :))) A good
candidate gives her voters a choice ;-)))

Carole :)
Nann Bell - 08 Mar 2008 04:40 GMT
>> I will vote for you too, but I MUST have dark chocolate!!
>> GaryZ
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Carole :)

good, good, good.  I'll take that incredibly rich, luscious, creamy dark
chocolate that is totally fat and calorie free, though you'd never believe
it!
(i'm hitting my last dose pack right now and need all the non-caloric help I
can get!)  (on the bright side, typing has actually been tolerable today!)

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Carole - 08 Mar 2008 05:22 GMT
> good, good, good.  I'll take that incredibly rich, luscious, creamy dark
> chocolate that is totally fat and calorie free, though you'd never believe
> it!
> (i'm hitting my last dose pack right now and need all the non-caloric help I
> can get!)  (on the bright side, typing has actually been tolerable today!)

All of my chocolate is fat free, calorie free, and rich and delicious :)
 Now, wouldn't I make a good politician??? :-))))

Carole
Nann Bell - 09 Mar 2008 21:37 GMT
> All of my chocolate is fat free, calorie free, and rich and delicious :)
>   Now, wouldn't I make a good politician??? :-))))
>
> Carole

Are you referring to the way you "interpret" facts?  heehee, heehee

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Carole - 10 Mar 2008 03:53 GMT
>>All of my chocolate is fat free, calorie free, and rich and delicious :)
>>  Now, wouldn't I make a good politician??? :-))))
>>
>>Carole
>
> Are you referring to the way you "interpret" facts?  heehee, heehee

No, just the fact that I have the power to take calories and fat out of
food (hey, it's not as outrageous as some of the claims I've heard
politicians make :))))

Carole :)
Nann Bell - 08 Mar 2008 04:40 GMT
>> I will vote for you too, but I MUST have dark chocolate!!
>> GaryZ
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Carole :)

good, good, good.  I'll take that incredibly rich, luscious, creamy dark
chocolate that is totally fat and calorie free, though you'd never believe
it!
(i'm hitting my last dose pack right now and need all the non-caloric help I
can get!)  (on the bright side, typing has actually been tolerable today!)

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Carole - 06 Mar 2008 17:41 GMT
> Yes I will vote for you, I will be your campaign manager if you give me more
> candy than the others. ;-) LOL
>
> In fact if you get me a cadbury egg, I will give you 100 votes. ;-)

Ooo, I'll get you two Cadbury eggs.  BTW, if you want the REAL Cadbury's
order from an English place online. The stuff we get over here is no
where near as good as the chocolate from England :))  When I wasn't on
my food plan, I shopped here http://www.englishteastore.com  They have
English chocolate and proper English tea :-))

Carole :)
Kelly - 06 Mar 2008 20:36 GMT
Of course you could always just ask me.  I live so close to Victoria BC and
we have English Sweet Shops.  Sometimes Victoria is called more England than
England.  They pride themself on that.

kelly

>> Yes I will vote for you, I will be your campaign manager if you give me
>> more candy than the others. ;-) LOL
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Carole :)
jofirey - 06 Mar 2008 21:51 GMT
> Of course you could always just ask me.  I live so close to Victoria BC
> and we have English Sweet Shops.  Sometimes Victoria is called more
> England than England.  They pride themself on that.
>
> kelly

Charlie and I just loved our visit to Victoria.  No one has told them the
colonies are gone have they?

We even went to a lovely Sunday buffet at a restaurant frequented by locals.
The ladies in pastel dresses with matching hats, the gentlemen in summer
suits.

My poor daughter could hardly bring herself to eat her dinner as she noticed
that she wasn't using her silverware in the same manner as everyone else
there.  She was sure they were staring at her.

We came home with tea and chocolate of course.

Jo
Carole - 07 Mar 2008 00:15 GMT
> Of course you could always just ask me.  I live so close to Victoria BC and
> we have English Sweet Shops.  Sometimes Victoria is called more England than
> England.  They pride themself on that.
>
> kelly

You know when I came up to Vancouver last November, I was going to go
shopping, but the traffic was so horrible that I just able made it to
the concert on time. One of these days I'm going to come back up that
way :) I'd like to have afternoon tea in Victoria :)))

Carole :)
d'huit - 07 Mar 2008 05:41 GMT
Kelly wrote:

> Of course you could always just ask me.  I live so close to Victoria BC
> and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> kelly

You know when I came up to Vancouver last November, I was going to go
shopping, but the traffic was so horrible that I just able made it to
the concert on time. One of these days I'm going to come back up that
way :) I'd like to have afternoon tea in Victoria :)))

Carole :)

at the empress, of course!  though butch and i tended to relish the empress'
"death by chocolate" in its club room--'twas heaven.

kate
(who is not mentioning what happens on government street, in victoria,
beginning at precisely 10 pm each night.LOL)
Carole - 07 Mar 2008 16:12 GMT
> at the empress, of course!  though butch and i tended to relish the empress'
> "death by chocolate" in its club room--'twas heaven.

Hmm, there was a restaurant on Long Island that used to have death by
chocolate. I doubt I could eat it now though. My tastebuds have changed
a lot.

> (who is not mentioning what happens on government street, in victoria,
> beginning at precisely 10 pm each night.LOL)

OK, now you HAVE to tell!!!! :-)

Carole
d'huit - 07 Mar 2008 20:37 GMT
d'huit wrote:

> at the empress, of course!  though butch and i tended to relish the
> empress'
> "death by chocolate" in its club room--'twas heaven.

Hmm, there was a restaurant on Long Island that used to have death by
chocolate. I doubt I could eat it now though. My tastebuds have changed
a lot.

> (who is not mentioning what happens on government street, in victoria,
> beginning at precisely 10 pm each night.LOL)

OK, now you HAVE to tell!!!! :-)

Carole

champaign and an assortment of decadent chocolate truffles, truffle cakes,
etc.  yeah!  i hope my tastebuds never change.

ok.  something like 15-20 years ago, we reserved a cabin for a couple of
nights on board and took butch's truck on board the cruise ship (must have
been a kind of ferry and cruise ship combination or something like that) the
first time we went up.  after spending a great 3-day weekend exploring the
touristy aspects of victoria and its great restaurants, we had time to kill
before having to go back to the ship for the return trip.  we knew we wanted
to spend every minute we could exploring victoria and didn't want to be
shipboard too early.  so, we spend the last few hours just driving around
town that night.

not caring about where we were going, we somehow wound up driving up
government street.  it was just past 10 pm.  i tended to be visually
observant/aware of the unusual and still tend to be very naive at times.
after driving 6 or 7 blocks up that street, i turned to butch and asked him
if he had noticed how most canadian women kind of dressed the same at night.
i kind of giggled as i told him it almost looked like they were all wearing
a uniform.  i'd noticed a lot of women, whom i presumed were waiting to
cross at various intersections on that street; and they were all wearing
white or off-white blouses, black or dark mini-skirts, carrying small
shoulder bags/purses hung on long spaghetti-straps and had on stiletto
heels.

butch looked at me with a quirky smile on his face, a familiar smile that to
me meant he got my joke.  i knew then that he thought i was joking.  my
facial expression must have told him i wasn't.  he then patiently told me
that they were prostitutes.  i was floored and reeeally craned my neck to
see them after that.  (for me, it was an adventure and i have this thing
about studying the character in faces.  they weren't all hard faces either,
nor were they all young.)  i'd never seen a real prostitute before.  though
i knew we had some up by our airport on 99, i'd never noticed them--ours
didn't wear uniforms.ô¿ô

a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys at
work told him it was only legal for these women to be on government street,
in victoria, and only beginning at 10 pm.

kate
Carole - 07 Mar 2008 23:50 GMT
> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys at
> work told him it was only legal for these women to be on government street,
> in victoria, and only beginning at 10 pm.

In NYC, you can tell who the prostitutes are. They are on 42nd Street
and 9-10th Avenues. They are dressed only in bras and panties with
stockings and garters. How they walk around like that is beyond me!

Carole
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 00:10 GMT
> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys
> at
> work told him it was only legal for these women to be on government
> street,
> in victoria, and only beginning at 10 pm.

In NYC, you can tell who the prostitutes are. They are on 42nd Street
and 9-10th Avenues. They are dressed only in bras and panties with
stockings and garters. How they walk around like that is beyond me!

Carole

that's beyond me, too!  geesh.  don't they get cold?!

kate
(hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has classier
ladies of the night than the u.s.?)
jofirey - 08 Mar 2008 00:43 GMT
>> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys
>> at
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> classier
> ladies of the night than the u.s.?)

No, only that the pros in NYC have to go further to distinguish themselves
from the way the rest of the population dresses.

Jo
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 00:56 GMT
>> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys
>> at
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> classier
> ladies of the night than the u.s.?)

No, only that the pros in NYC have to go further to distinguish themselves
from the way the rest of the population dresses.

Jo

it's now THAT bad?  h0ly c0w!  what has my hometown come to?! (i can
remember everybody getting dressed up to the nines just to go shopping
downtown.--now, i feel oooold.)   makes me wonder if i should be glad i
moved away or sad that i didn't stay to straighten their acts up!;-)
kate
jofirey - 08 Mar 2008 02:20 GMT
>>> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the
>>> guys
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> moved away or sad that i didn't stay to straighten their acts up!;-)
> kate

I know you are younger than I am.  But remember nylon stockings and hats and
gloves?  Patent leather shoes in the spring with pastel suits.

Trouble is I also remember dressing like that to go to church and getting
home with huge perspiration stains and heat rash.  Or even heat stroke.  And
blisters on my feet from the shoes.  Church didn't have Air Conditioning.

Jo
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 03:25 GMT
>> kate
>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> moved away or sad that i didn't stay to straighten their acts up!;-)
> kate

I know you are younger than I am.  But remember nylon stockings and hats and
gloves?  Patent leather shoes in the spring with pastel suits.

Trouble is I also remember dressing like that to go to church and getting
home with huge perspiration stains and heat rash.  Or even heat stroke.  And
blisters on my feet from the shoes.  Church didn't have Air Conditioning.

Jo

remember them?  i wore them.  of course, the nylons didn't happen until high
school, though.

but, i kinda rebelled a little at the idea of getting dressed up for god, as
if god didn't know i didn't look that way most of the time.  i felt phony.
and i took "just as i am" literally.  that was in the '60s, so i was the
first 18 to 20 year old (can't remember exactly how old i was) to attend our
church while wearing jeans.  just once.  so much fuss was made about it that
i never went back.  until then, it never occurred to me that everybody was
dressing up for everybody else in the church and not for god.  i just
thought other people liked being in those kinds of clothes.LOL   but i
didn't.

kate
sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 08 Mar 2008 03:29 GMT
Kate, that would be no problem now.  I've seen teenagers at our church (at
night) wearing SHORT cutoff jeans and other things that a few years ago
would not have been tolerated in the churches I went to!
Gwen

>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> kate
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 17:55 GMT
Kate, that would be no problem now.  I've seen teenagers at our church (at
night) wearing SHORT cutoff jeans and other things that a few years ago
would not have been tolerated in the churches I went to!
Gwen

<smiling> i think i was born too soon.;-)

kate

>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> kate
jofirey - 08 Mar 2008 04:24 GMT
>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> kate

A lot just depends on how you look at things.  Maybe because my mother and
father both grew up dirt poor and only had 'good' clothes for special
occasions.  But I was taught that wearing your best and looking your best
for church was a matter of respect.  That what you had was good enough, but
it should be the best you had, you shoes should be cleaned and brushed, etc.

But I'd have had trouble sitting down in church if I'd ever acted like
someone else's best wasn't good enough.

Before I start sounding too holy and all though, getting us all ready and
out of the house and in the car on time to head out for church was something
less than a religious experience in my house, and I suspect in many others.

If today's more casual attire cuts down on some of those mornings it has to
be a good thing.

Jo
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 18:23 GMT
>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> kate

A lot just depends on how you look at things.  Maybe because my mother and
father both grew up dirt poor and only had 'good' clothes for special
occasions.  But I was taught that wearing your best and looking your best
for church was a matter of respect.  That what you had was good enough, but
it should be the best you had, you shoes should be cleaned and brushed, etc.

***i'm familiar with that teaching, too.  during my childhood, our family
finances went comfortably up and dirt poor down with my father's
itchy-footed wanderlust (we moved coast-to-coast 11 different times by the
time i was 15, not counting the county to county moves before and after
15.).  he simply couldn't make up his mind about which coast he wanted to
live on, is all.  but, my mom made sure we had good clothes for special
occassions, even if they were hand-me-downs or she had to make them herself
(she and her sister were truly gifted with a sewing machine--which was also
a cultural thing, too.  no spanish woman, of hers and her mother's
generations, was considered well-educated unless she could wield a needle in
exquisite ways.).

But I'd have had trouble sitting down in church if I'd ever acted like
someone else's best wasn't good enough.

***ouch!

Before I start sounding too holy and all though, getting us all ready and
out of the house and in the car on time to head out for church was something
less than a religious experience in my house, and I suspect in many others.

***LOL!  (have i ever told you how much i enjoy and appreciate your ability
to create lively imagery in the reader's mind by implication?)

If today's more casual attire cuts down on some of those mornings it has to
be a good thing.

***LOL!  interestingly valid viewpoint.  one i never considered.

kate

Jo
Kelly - 08 Mar 2008 19:31 GMT
I have strong feelings over this. When I first started going to church all
of our family wore our best and that was that (Catholic).  Now I look at the
kids and adults going to church and figure - darn it they are there!  That
is a committment and that is good.  I figure if a family can get up, have
breakfast, get the kids out the door as a group that is pretty special!  I
like to think god will turn a blind eye to the clothes.

kelly

>>>> kate
>>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 92 lines]
>
> Jo
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 20:18 GMT
I have strong feelings over this. When I first started going to church all
of our family wore our best and that was that (Catholic).  Now I look at the
kids and adults going to church and figure - darn it they are there!  That
is a committment and that is good.  I figure if a family can get up, have
breakfast, get the kids out the door as a group that is pretty special!  I
like to think god will turn a blind eye to the clothes.

kelly

you made me think--divine eyes don't see clothing at all, just the quality
of the individual spirit and soul.  both of which have innate clothing of a
spiritual nature and not a material (layered meaning in that word) nature.

kate

> "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote in message
> news:n5OdndcCYenfmk_anZ2dnUVZ_qiinZ2d@comcast.com...
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>
> Jo
Harvey R. Stone - 08 Mar 2008 22:55 GMT
> I have strong feelings over this. When I first started going to church all
> of our family wore our best and that was that (Catholic).  Now I look at
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> kate

The word has already been spoken that explains what is taking place here.
The word is respect.   The young people today do not respect what took place
in the past as it applies to them.   It is NOT the fault of the young....
It is what they have seen and lived with the adults of today...  That means
it is our fault they have no respect for tradition.  We brought them up.
We showed them what is important....  Guess what,,,, Our generation is not
grown up enough to look at ourselves in that critical enough light.   We
will slap back in any manor we can to not look at ourselves with guilt and
self examination.   The real question is what can we do today to make
tomorrow better for us all.   Makes your mind hurt huh.  It is so much
easier to just slap back over and over.   Hhhhm, I think I will get a beer
and see what is on Tv.

Harv
ANN M - 09 Mar 2008 05:33 GMT
I feel that our whole society has gotten much more casual than when I
was young.  That has filtered down to the kids who don't even have to
dress up for school.
I feel as long as they are covered decently and at least GO to church,
that God will accept them and so should the rest of us.  I have been
known to throw a coat over jeans and a sweater myself and been perfectly
comfortable attending church at a nearby parish which is not as formal
as my own.
Ann
Carole - 09 Mar 2008 06:02 GMT
> I feel that our whole society has gotten much more casual than when I
> was young.  That has filtered down to the kids who don't even have to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> as my own.
> Ann

I used to work for the catholic church in NY. The thing that would amaze
me was what the Confirmation sponsors would show up in.  I finally had
to lay down the law and be blunt telling the women that the bishop did
not want to have to worry about their boobs falling out when they were
up at the altar.  We used to be able to say "Wear Sunday dress" but no
one had a clue what that meant, so I had to type up an established dress
code for the sponsors. The kids wore robes so I didn't have to worry
about them :-))

Carole
Nann Bell - 09 Mar 2008 21:37 GMT
> I used to work for the catholic church in NY. The thing that would amaze
> me was what the Confirmation sponsors would show up in.  I finally had
> to lay down the law and be blunt telling the women that the bishop did
> not want to have to worry about their boobs falling out when they were
> up at the altar.  

There was a time when I didn't think overly about what top or dress I wore to
church, being of a size and shape that I can't go too revealing anyway (need
too much support).  But I've always had Episcopal priest friends.  In my mid
20s I was around a couple of them who were discussing the "difficulties" of
giving communion to women in low-cut dresses.  I realized that a top that has
one decently covered in most positions, might be too revealing when one is
kneeling, leaning forward a bit, with the priest or LEM standing in front of
you.  I've been a lot more aware of that ever since!  

Somewhere, sometime, I need to invest in some nice camisoles to wear under a
couple of tops that never get to see church right now.  They're always using
those on "What not to Wear" but our corner of the state doesn't have any
stores that carry nice camis.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Carole - 10 Mar 2008 03:59 GMT
> Somewhere, sometime, I need to invest in some nice camisoles to wear under a
> couple of tops that never get to see church right now.  They're always using
> those on "What not to Wear" but our corner of the state doesn't have any
> stores that carry nice camis.

Check out eBay. I just sold one that was too big for me and the lady who
bought it said how lovely it was :))

Carole
Nann Bell - 08 Mar 2008 04:40 GMT
LOL - My mom came up for Mike's first ordination.  (Somehow family was more
interested in coming for the June one than for the December on, even though
the latter was the final step!)  She asked ahead of time what to wear.  I of
course, was going to be dressy in celebration, though i changed into my Birks
from my dress shoes for the cookout/reception afterwards.  At the time I
thought there might not be anyone there in jeans as it was a fairly big
event.  i was wrong - we had some in jeans.  I should have known - this is
too much of a farming area.  The great thing though is that no one really
cared one way or the other.

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> kate
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 18:35 GMT
LOL - My mom came up for Mike's first ordination.  (Somehow family was more
interested in coming for the June one than for the December on, even though
the latter was the final step!)  She asked ahead of time what to wear.  I of
course, was going to be dressy in celebration, though i changed into my
Birks
from my dress shoes for the cookout/reception afterwards.  At the time I
thought there might not be anyone there in jeans as it was a fairly big
event.  i was wrong - we had some in jeans.  I should have known - this is
too much of a farming area.  The great thing though is that no one really
cared one way or the other.

i think you are correct about the regional aspect, too.  i remember back in
the '60s when i was in college in the denver area.  i went shopping at
cinderella mall for a pair of  ladies' jeans and couldn't find any, and had
to go with stirrup stretch-pants  (which are not a good choice for a hay
ride, btw and men's jeans hadn't occurred to me.).

kate

Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 22:25:35 -0500, d'huit wrote
(in message <n5OdndcCYenfmk_anZ2dnUVZ_qiinZ2d@comcast.com>):

>>> kate
>>> (hmmm . . . wondering . . . does that mean that victoria/canada has
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> kate
Carole - 08 Mar 2008 05:20 GMT
> I know you are younger than I am.  But remember nylon stockings and hats and
> gloves?  Patent leather shoes in the spring with pastel suits.

I had patent leather shoes too :)  I remember that my friend who was
Catholic was not allowed to wear patent leather because "Sister said the
boys could see up your skirt in the reflection." So Catholic girls were
not permitted to wear patent leather. I was Episcopalian at the time so
I guess it was OK for the boys to look up our skirts, LOL :)))))

> Trouble is I also remember dressing like that to go to church and getting
> home with huge perspiration stains and heat rash.  Or even heat stroke.  And
> blisters on my feet from the shoes.  Church didn't have Air Conditioning.

Yea, remember those days?  I remember going to my Mom's friend's wedding
and it was SO hot in that church it's a wonder everyone didn't pass out!

Carole
ANN M - 08 Mar 2008 20:35 GMT
Carole remembers:
I had patent leather shoes too :) I remember that my friend who was
Catholic was not allowed to wear patent leather because "Sister said
.....

I must have been raised by more liberal sisters!!!
12 years in parochial school and never heard that one.  We all wore
patent leather shoes for "dress up" and I recall our tap dancing shoes
were patent leather too.  My favorite shoes when I was about 7 years old
were "white patent leather".  and I had a shoulder bag to match.

Ann
Carole - 09 Mar 2008 04:42 GMT
> I must have been raised by more liberal sisters!!!
> 12 years in parochial school and never heard that one.  We all wore
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Ann

I had those too! And also a white picture hat with long navy blue
ribbons that went all the way down my back. I thought I was "Miss IT"
when I wore that hat :))

Carole :)
d'huit - 09 Mar 2008 05:25 GMT
Carole remembers:
I had patent leather shoes too :) I remember that my friend who was
Catholic was not allowed to wear patent leather because "Sister said
.....

I must have been raised by more liberal sisters!!!
12 years in parochial school and never heard that one.  We all wore
patent leather shoes for "dress up" and I recall our tap dancing shoes
were patent leather too.  My favorite shoes when I was about 7 years old
were "white patent leather".  and I had a shoulder bag to match.

Ann

one of my aunties gave me a pair of black patent tap dancing shoes when i
was 6.  my favorites though, in the first grade, were the white patent
leather pumps with teeny, little girl, french heels--i used to turn my ankle
all the time in those, but i loved'em.LOL

kate
Kelly - 08 Mar 2008 06:04 GMT
Trust me that is a myth. The time does not start at 10 pm and although
prostitution is not illegal - it is illegal to practice it. Go figure
A quote on prostitution in Canada

"Despite the fact that prostitution is not illegal in Canada, activities
closely related to the profession are penalized (i.e. procuring, keeping a
bawdy-house, communicating). This results in the infamous "Catch 22"
situation, where prostitutes face a good news-bad news scenario:
prostitution is legal, but it is illegal to practice it.

The government's and the legal system's inability to clearly define where
prostitution can take place facilitates the further victimization of women
by forcing them to practice their chosen profession on the street under less
than optimal conditions. Moreover society as a whole is partly responsible
for young women choosing prostitution as a career. Also, the incompetence of
the law forces the police to be in a position were they have to make the
laws. :

Yes we have prostitutes that are rather noticable in Victoria at night - but
then that is when the tourists and the locals are out downtown.  In a lot of
cases these women are trying to make a living for drugs, for families (easy
money in a way for a single mom for example in a capital city where living
expenses are very high).  Unfortunately we have a fairly high percentage of
people in Victoria who are homeless, have mental illness problems, major
substance abuse problems - not just prostitution.  This is due to the high
amount of social service facilities downtown, a fairly good climate - very
little snow, very little cold compared to the northern areas or the prairies
or Eastern Canada.  Lots of convention trade, tourists etc as well - go
where your market is unfortunately and there is a market.

Some sad people - some ordinary people.  No easy solutions unfortunately.

Of course most will visit Victoria and never see the seedy side of it.  And
if you ever come to Victoria I can pick you up at the Anacortes Ferry and
take you to buchart Gardens - a better tea in my opinion for a lessor price
now than the Empress - it is now overpriced in my opinion which is sad as it
used to be my favorite. the other tea I love is in Oak Bay at the Blethering
Place - an old English tea room.  Oak Bay is a place unto itself on the
outskirts of Victoria.

Kelly

>> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys
>> at work told him it was only legal for these women to be on government
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Carole
Carole - 08 Mar 2008 18:08 GMT
> Of course most will visit Victoria and never see the seedy side of it.  And
> if you ever come to Victoria I can pick you up at the Anacortes Ferry and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Place - an old English tea room.  Oak Bay is a place unto itself on the
> outskirts of Victoria.

Sounds lovely :)  I'll keep that in mind for the summer :)))

Carole :)
d'huit - 08 Mar 2008 19:49 GMT
Trust me that is a myth. The time does not start at 10 pm and although
prostitution is not illegal - it is illegal to practice it. Go figure
A quote on prostitution in Canada

***i trust your knowledge much more than i would the good ol' boys at
boeing.<smile>

"Despite the fact that prostitution is not illegal in Canada, activities
closely related to the profession are penalized (i.e. procuring, keeping a
bawdy-house, communicating). This results in the infamous "Catch 22"
situation, where prostitutes face a good news-bad news scenario:
prostitution is legal, but it is illegal to practice it.

***interesting.  kind of an ambivalent law, like the legislators both did
and didn't want to create a law about it.  (you should see some of the
absurd laws still on our books, some dating back over a hundred years, in
some regions of the country.)

The government's and the legal system's inability to clearly define where
prostitution can take place facilitates the further victimization of women
by forcing them to practice their chosen profession on the street under less
than optimal conditions. Moreover society as a whole is partly responsible
for young women choosing prostitution as a career. Also, the incompetence of
the law forces the police to be in a position were they have to make the
laws. :

***i'm uncertain about the validity of society, as a whole, being even
partly responsible for the choices of individuals.  prostitution is called
the oldest profession for a good reason.  i can't name any society,
currently nor historically, where it hasn't existed in some form, despite
legislation and enforcement against it in most societies.  and payment
doesn't have to be in coin; it can also be quid pro quo (also meaning there
are also a lot of people, both male and female, who don't necessarily
recognize they are prostituting themselves.).

Yes we have prostitutes that are rather noticable in Victoria at night - but
then that is when the tourists and the locals are out downtown.  In a lot of
cases these women are trying to make a living for drugs, for families (easy
money in a way for a single mom for example in a capital city where living
expenses are very high).  Unfortunately we have a fairly high percentage of
people in Victoria who are homeless, have mental illness problems, major
substance abuse problems - not just prostitution.  This is due to the high
amount of social service facilities downtown, a fairly good climate - very
little snow, very little cold compared to the northern areas or the prairies
or Eastern Canada.  Lots of convention trade, tourists etc as well - go
where your market is unfortunately and there is a market.

***historically, bad climate was never a deterrent to prostitution, just to
street-walking.  it seems as though all major cities seem to attract
prostitution and for all of the reasons you mentioned and more.

Some sad people - some ordinary people.  No easy solutions unfortunately.

***everywhere.

Of course most will visit Victoria and never see the seedy side of it.  And
if you ever come to Victoria I can pick you up at the Anacortes Ferry and
take you to buchart Gardens - a better tea in my opinion for a lessor price
now than the Empress - it is now overpriced in my opinion which is sad as it
used to be my favorite. the other tea I love is in Oak Bay at the Blethering
Place - an old English tea room.  Oak Bay is a place unto itself on the
outskirts of Victoria.

***may i take this opportunity to say, my comments were in no way intended
as an insult to canada's very beautiful victoria.  i love that city; it's
sophisticated, gorgeous and vibrant in every way.

prostitution exists in every major city, across the globe, and as you say,
most visitors to any major city rarely see its seedier sides.  in fact, many
locals don't even see it--born and raised in many major cities, i know i
never recognized what i was seeing in those cities in which i lived.  seeing
it in victoria, and being told what i was seeing, was my very first
firsthand awarness experience with it.  i tend to be somewhat overly
exhuberant about and relish any first/new experiences, as life's an
adventure to me.  no negative general judgment from me was intended to be
imposed upon your lovely city.

have you tried tea at the ann hathaway?--though i don't know if that lovely
place still exists (we happened upon it, during one of our many trips there,
back in the 1990s).

thank you for your very kind and generous invitation, kelly.  i don't do
much traveling alone these days.  heck, i barely put 2500 miles a year on my
car.  just getting around the house without breaking a bone has been a
challenge the past several years.  but, if i do have the opportunity to
revisit victoria, i'd love to take you up on it.

kate

Kelly

>> a few days later, when butch got home from work, he told me that the guys
>> at work told him it was only legal for these women to be on government
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Carole
Kelly - 08 Mar 2008 22:06 GMT
I know you didn't mean it as an insult Kate.  I am an observer of people and
tend to see things sometimes in different ways.  I love Seattle but in my
travels there have seen things other people with me have not.  They saw the
buildings, I saw the people in the alleys besides the buildings.  not in
pity but in understanding.  I love San Francisco downtown.  A friend said it
was dirty and there were lots of homeless.  I loved the music of the jazz
players playing at night - we could hear them late at night with our hotel
window open.

I guess my dad taught me some of this.  He never went by a panhandler
without stopping to talk, bringing a coffee maybe or buying a street paper.
Many times we went by the "red light" district of Vancouver and my dad and
the 3 of us (my brother, sister and I) would make up stories as to why the
ladies or men were prostituting - who knows whether any of our ideas were
true or not but the stories made you think.  Many families would have
thought that was awful but to me it was better than thinking these people
were "invisible".  Their lives were real to us and not in a "romantic" way.

Anyhow I love Victoria - always have even as a child.  But no - I know it
has its dark side too.  Every town does I am afraid and I wish I could
change that.  Unfortunately these problems have been around since long
before recorded time so......

We will get together one of these days Kate.  Doesn't have to be in
Victoria.

Kelly

> Trust me that is a myth. The time does not start at 10 pm and although
> prostitution is not illegal - it is illegal to practice it. Go figure
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>>
>> Carole
Paul T. Holland - 09 Mar 2008 22:59 GMT
while illuminating and educational about each of you,

i pity the poor folk who begin reading this thread somewhere in the
middle and try to reconcile the subject with the actual
posts...lolololololol

> I know you didn't mean it as an insult Kate.  I am an observer of people and
> tend to see things sometimes in different ways.  I love Seattle but in my
[quoted text clipped - 143 lines]
> >>
> >> Carole
d'huit - 12 Mar 2008 22:11 GMT
while illuminating and educational about each of you,

i pity the poor folk who begin reading this thread somewhere in the
middle and try to reconcile the subject with the actual
posts...lolololololol

ROTFL!  me, too.

kate

Kelly wrote:

> I know you didn't mean it as an insult Kate.  I am an observer of people
> and
[quoted text clipped - 171 lines]
> >>
> >> Carole

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