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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / January 2008Plantar Fasciitis!!!
So, I have had plantar fasciitis for more than 6 months now and am sick of it. I am a very passionate runner and am anxious to get back on my feet again. I think that I need a cortsone shot but I am going to have to pay for it forward. What I want to know is, is it going to be worth it. How much does it usually cost? Will it cure this horrible disease, or will it more than likley come back a few months down the road. I am always in pain. This affects my everyday life, like walking in school, doing any kind of work, going with friends to the store. Simple things. It brings me down and I can't stand it anymore! Someone please help!!! Thanks ~adam On Dec 31, 8:40 pm, "Flaminguitar3211" <u40305@uwe> wrote: plantar fasciitis << Stones which they have to remove surgically or you pass them painfully through your urethra they use shock wave therapy to break them down so you can pass them without trouble. Alleviating the need for surgery. Now it seems this is also accomplished with phytic acid / phytate .. found in the brown / chaff of our grains and plants. So would phytic acid / phytate / bisphosponate BE .. indicated .. since shock wave therapy is used in plantar .. ? Imboden I, Waldern NM, Wiestner T, Lischer CJ, Ueltschi G, Weishaupt MA Short term analgesic effect of extracorporeal shock wave therapy in horses with proximal palmar metacarpal/plantar metatarsal pain. [JOURNAL ARTICLE] Vet J 2007 Dec 7. Extracorporeal shock wave therapy (ESWT) is an accepted form of treatment for chronic cases of proximal suspensory desmitis (PSD). Subjective evaluation of horses shortly after being treated with ESWT has led clinicians to comment on an immediate reduction in lameness. This study aimed to evaluate the analgesic effect of ESWT on 16 horses with PSD or PSD-like pain in a fore- or hindlimb. To objectively assess lameness, gait analysis was performed on an instrumented treadmill before and 6, 24, 48 and 72h after ESWT of the origin of the suspensory ligament and the results compared to the effects of local anaesthesia. Stride frequency, stance duration, vertical impulse and peak vertical force were determined. Thermographic imaging and evaluation of skin sensitivity of the treated area were carried out before and after ESWT in the same interval as gait analysis. The results showed that there were no significant improvements in the investigated parameters at any time after ESWT; however, in horses with affected forelimbs the contralateral weightbearing asymmetry decreased significantly 72h after ESWT. Neither skin sensitivity nor thermographic imaging revealed changes that could be attributed to ESWT. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- More from this journal Vet J Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > So, I have had plantar fasciitis for more than 6 months now and am sick of it. > I am a very passionate runner and am anxious to get back on my feet again. I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Thanks > ~adam >On Dec 31, 8:40 pm, "Flaminguitar3211" <u40305@uwe> wrote: plantar >fasciitis << [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >> Thanks >> ~adam Ok man, this looks like this is not helping me a bit. Why are you talking about kidney stones? Do you even know what I am talking about? Plantar Fasciitis is an overuse injury on the bottom of a humans foot. It can be caused by too much running and jumping over a period of time because your body isn't used to the sudden change. That is how I got it. Are you saying maybe that ultrasound therapy would be the best solution for me? Please let me know. Thanks ~adam On Jan 1, 6:57 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote:Are you saying maybe that ultrasound therapy would be the best solution for me? << I'm saying plantar fasciitis .. according to the .. evidence IE: drugs and / or treatments used .. point to .. calcification .. the SAME as with kidney stones .. calcified kidney stones .. Therefore since both treatments seem to work .. then is calcification the problem in plantar fasciitis ? Treatments seems to point to it .. and therefore ARE bisphosphonates used to treat plantar fasciitis .. ? .. and IF they ARE then one might think of using food .. IE: phytate based food / phytic acid / bisphosphonate / crystallization inhibitors .. ON .. plantar fasciitis .. THAT is what I said .. So the doctor may say take bisphosphonate .. but using science as evidence .. SINCE they ARE **comparing** the two .. bisphoshonate and phytate AGAINST each other in open trial .. then one MUST dedeuce the other is the same as the one. If you see what I mean .. Sooo .. ARE they using bisphosphonates in in plantar fasciitis .. ? Research Article Alendronate prevents bone loss and improves tendon-to-bone repair strength in a canine model Stavros Thomopoulos *, Hironori Matsuzaki, Melissa Zaegel, Richard H. Gelberman, Matthew J. Silva Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, Washington University, 1 Barnes- Jewish Hospital Plaza, Suite 11300, Campus Box 8233, St. Louis, Missouri 63110 email: Stavros Thomopoulos (ThomopoulosS@wudosis.wustl.edu) *Correspondence to Stavros Thomopoulos, Department of Orthopaedic Surgery, Washington University, 1 Barnes-Jewish Hospital Plaza, Suite 11300, Campus Box 8233, St. Louis, Missouri 63110. Telephone: 314-362-8605; Fax: 314-362-0334. Keywords flexor tendon * tendon-to-bone healing * insertion site * enthesis * bisphosphonates Abstract Previously we showed a loss of bone and a concomitant decrease in mechanical properties in the first 21 days after flexor tendon insertion site injury and repair in a canine model. The goal of this short-term study was to suppress bone loss after insertion site repair using alendronate in an attempt to prevent the reduction in biomechanical properties. Flexor tendons of the second and fifth digits of the right forelimbs of canines were injured and repaired. Dogs received a daily oral dose of alendronate (2 mg/kg). One digit in each dog also received a local dose of alendronate in the bone tunnel at the time of surgery. The repair was evaluated for bone mineral density (BMD) and biomechanical properties and compared to data from a previous study in which no alendronate was used. Alendronate was effective in protecting the distal phalanx from resorption during tendon-to-bone healing (BMD was 94 and 104% of control for systemic alendronate and for systemic plus local alendronate, respectively). Alendronate treatment prevented much of the decrease in ultimate load that occurs in the first 21 days. Without treatment, ultimate load was 42% of control. With systemic alendronate treatment and systemic plus local alendronate treatment, ultimate load was 78 and 69% of control, respectively. Failure mode was significantly different when comparing alendronate treatment to repair alone. A lower incidence of suture pull through was found in alendronate treated dogs, suggesting less tendon degeneration. Ultimate load can be improved in association with preventing the bone loss that normally occurs during the early period following tendon-to-bone repair. These initial short-term data demonstrate the potential for a clinical treatment that could enhance tendon-to-bone healing. (c) 2007 Orthopaedic Research Society. Published by Wiley Periodicals, Inc. J Orthop Res 25:473-479, 2007 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Received: 13 January 2006; Accepted: 10 July 2006 Digital Object Identifier (DOI) 10.1002/jor.20293 About DOI Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >On Jan 1, 6:57 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> >wrote:Are you saying maybe that ultrasound therapy would be the best [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] >DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk OK, thanks! So, can you get this alendronate at a super market or do you have to get it from a docter? Another thing I wanted to know was, do all cases of planter fasciitis that persist for more than 6 months come from a heel spur? And one other thing... the longer this injury lingers around, does it take longer to heal? Thanks again! ~adam On Jan 2, 12:43 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote:OK, thanks! So, can you get this alendronate at a super market or do you have to get it from a docter? Another thing I wanted to know was, do all cases of planter fasciitis that persist for more than 6 months come from a heel spur? And one other thing... the longer this injury lingers around, does it take longer to heal? Thanks again! << You've determined a .. bisphosphonate is .. indicated .. ? You've done at least a wee bit of research .. ? You will notice **everyone** who has posted to this thread has attacked .. **me** .. ? You notice .. ? Aspirin .. an iron binding drug. Indocin - Nobel prize winning drug .. binds iron. Bisphosphonates the leading edge in arthritis treatment .. an iron binding drug. Those are just a few. All of the people attacking me are presently using or have used all the drugs mentioned above. All those drugs were found to be iron binders LONG after I began telling everyone to watch the iron. Sooo .. they can SAY .. "he's wrong don't listen to him" .. but they STILL seem to relish shooting themselves UP .. with .. those very iron binding .. drugs .. Don't they .. Not even .. one .. has refused to DO those drugs .. Sooo .. they talk the big walk .. but don't walk .. the big .. talk .. They have a word for those .. types. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > ironjust...@aol.com wrote: > >On Jan 1, 6:57 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > > - Show quoted text - pussy tommy wrote: > Stupidity isn't what this guy .. needs. Then why are you posting in this newsgroup? ... If you don't like my opinion of you - improve yourself! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 >pussy tommy wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >... If you don't like my opinion of you - improve yourself! >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Ummmmm, I'm confused. I never said i didn't like your "opinion" about me. You're not even the same guy I've been talking to. ~adam Califchief wrote: >pussy tommy wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >... If you don't like my opinion of you - improve yourself! >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Ummmmm, I'm confused. I never said i didn't like your "opinion" about me. You're not even the same guy I've been talking to. ~adam hi adam, you're new to asa, it appears. i'm afraid you got snared by our resident troll, rusty rump (aka: tom, ironjustice) and ensnared in the combat between a legitimate member and rusty rump. chief was addressing tom/ironjustice. please disregard any responses your posts might generate from tom/ironjustice. he's got mental health issues and is in denial about them. chief/ firechief and several other of our group's members try to keep rusty rump from imparting medical treatments, diagnoses, generally incorrect and sometimes dangerous medical advice to newbies, which sometimes results in a flamewar. you became confused by the flamewar. just a heads-up, guy. kate What Kate said, Adam. Welcome aboard and hope you get some answers, (not Tommy's type). Joan >hi adam, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >kate Ironman is rather dangerous here. Please ignore his email - that is who califchief is replying to. You do not need and it would not help a bisphosphonate such as fosomax unless you have osteopenia or osteoporosis which is NOT plantar fascia. That is the inflammation of the fascia. Talk to a doctor. If they give a cortisone shot (if you have tried rest, ice etc) they will usually give it in the arch area of the foot. I have had several and they really are barely painful and the pain doesn't last as long as the plantar fascitis. Kelly >>pussy tommy wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > You're not even the same guy I've been talking to. > ~adam On Jan 2, 10:42 pm, "Kelly" <kelly...@shaw.ca> wrote:Ironman is rather dangerous here. You do not need and it would not help a bisphosphonate such as fosomax unless you have osteopenia or osteoporosis which is NOT plantar fascia. That is the inflammation of the fascia. << The fascia is a ligament .. and it attaches to the bone .. and since fascia is associated with bone deformity WHERE the ligament MEETS .. the .. **bone** .. and since BISPHOSPHONATE is USED .. **specifically** .. BONE .. **pain** .. AND bone .. **deformity** / "remodeling" / spurs .. I assume you base your .. medical advice .. ON .. what .. ? Research .. ? A gut .. feeling .. ? What .. ? Dislike for the poster .. ? The guy has bone .. pain .. bisphosphonates are RECOMMENDED .. for .. ? .. bone pain .. plantar fasciitis is inflammation of ligament AND bone .. IE: heel spurs .. you disagree .. ? .. Who cares .. You simply DON'T .. speak ABOUT .. **me** .. dig .. ? Because YOU have no solid evidence bisphosphonate will not work .. WHEN all evidence point to the FACT .. they will .. bisphosphonates will work therefore .. buckwheat porridge .. will work. Bisphosphonates reduce bone mineral loss at ligament entheses after joint injury. Osteoarthritis and Cartilage, Volume 13, Issue 9, Pages 790-797 M. Doschak, J. LaMothe, D. Cooper, B. Hallgrimsson, D. Hanley, R. Bray, R. Zernicke http://www.thefinalsprint.com/tag/stress-fracture/ Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Jan 2, 10:42 pm, "Kelly" <kelly...@shaw.ca> wrote:Ironman is rather dangerous here. You do not need and it would not help a bisphosphonate such as fosomax unless you have osteopenia or osteoporosis which is NOT plantar fascia. That is the inflammation of the fascia. << The fascia is a ligament .. and it attaches to the bone .. and since fascia is associated with bone deformity WHERE the ligament MEETS .. the .. **bone** .. and since BISPHOSPHONATE is USED .. **specifically** .. BONE .. **pain** .. AND bone .. **deformity** / "remodeling" / spurs .. I assume you base your .. medical advice .. ON .. what .. ? Research .. ? A gut .. feeling .. ? What .. ? Dislike for the poster .. ? The guy has bone .. pain .. bisphosphonates are RECOMMENDED .. for .. ? .. bone pain .. plantar fasciitis is inflammation of ligament AND bone .. IE: heel spurs .. you disagree .. ? .. Who cares .. You simply DON'T .. speak ABOUT .. **me** .. dig .. ? Because YOU have no solid evidence bisphosphonate will not work .. WHEN all evidence point to the FACT .. they will .. bisphosphonates will work therefore .. buckwheat porridge .. will work. Bisphosphonates reduce bone mineral loss at ligament entheses after joint injury. Osteoarthritis and Cartilage, Volume 13, Issue 9, Pages 790-797 M. Doschak, J. LaMothe, D. Cooper, B. Hallgrimsson, D. Hanley, R. Bray, R. Zernicke http://www.thefinalsprint.com/tag/stress-fracture/ Who loves ya. Tom good grief, rusty rump! there you go again! from your url above: "Plantar fasciitis is an inflammation of the band of tissue, the plantar fascia, that connects the heel bone (calcaneus) to the forefoot, supporting your arch. When this area is strained through overuse or weaknesses, it causes irritation and inflammation, often causing pain in the heel first thing in the morning and .after long periods of sitting (see WebMD for more info on causes and symptoms). The bad news is that your foot simply needs rest. Helpful treatment includes icing the area (try ice massage), rolling the arch of your foot over a hard ball or frozen water bottle, and self-massage, as well as preventive strengthening exercises. . . ." tell us, please, where in that url article's definition above does it say that plantar faciitis is bone mineral loss? or causes bone mineral loss? or is caused by bone mineral loss? all it says is that it is an inflammation of the ligament that is connected to bone, "strained through overuse or weaknesses" that causes inflammation. (you don't bother reading what you post, do you?) therefore, why would any sane person treat soft tissue inflammation as if it were hard bone mineral loss? and according to the study title you cited, "Bisphosphonates reduce bone mineral loss . . ." and it does not say, reduces plantar faciitis inflammation. now, go to your article-topic's associated web link: http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/plantar-fasciitis-topic-overview READ! and STOP practicing medicine without a license! and STOP confusing people with real illnesses and real injuries with your NONSENSE!. kate > therefore, why would any sane person treat soft tissue inflammation as if > it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > kate Oh my well said and understood. I just can not force myself to dig into what he says deep enough. I wonder if he does this on purpose. He gets some kind of bang out of all this crap. Harv On Jan 3, 4:28 pm, "Harvey R. Stone" <hrst...@swbell.net> wrote:Oh my well said and understood. I just can not force myself to dig into what he says deep enough. I wonder if he does this on purpose. He gets some kind of bang out of all this crap. << What .. ? .. explaining sht to ya .. ? Nope .. don't get .. tired .. a .. bit .. there .. Harv .. Need to know something .. ? .. ask .. If you don't know what it is all about .. yet .. by .. now .. eh .. Harv .. Vegetarian .. diet and .. and .. iron reduction therapy .. 8ppm iron . Pretty easy .. Isn't .. it .. Phytate .. found in your plants .. IS a bisphosphonate WHICH .. go for VERY big .. bucks .. You disagree .. ? THAT alone is something for that guy with no .. shoes .. to .. know .. Don't ya .. think so .. Harv .. ? Comeon .. you ain't a fireman .. You can say it ... for that little guy .. without that .. plan .. Say it .. "Bisphosphonates .. for .. FREE .. FREEEEEE .. FREEEEEEE .. " You'deman . Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Harv > > therefore, why would any sane person treat soft tissue inflammation as if > > it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > some kind of bang out of all this crap. > Harv Hi Adam, I cannot address 'all' the causes or cures for plantar fasciitis. I can only relate my experience with it. I had a bout of p-f about seven years ago. I saw a podiatrist and was given a 'steroidal cocktail' shot in the side of the heel. The shot itself hurt like hell for a brief period (10-15 minutes) and the p-f pain was gone within half a day. I took some Aleve in the interim and never had a repeat. Of course, my situation may have been very different from yours. Sorry, I don't remember the costs involved, but it was just the one visit. Hope you're back on your feet soon. :-) Cheers Lee O. P.S. Don't even bother to read Tommys dangerous drivel. And be assured that the negative responses you saw were directed at him and not yourself. L >The fascia is a ligament .. and it attaches to the bone .. and since >fascia is associated with bone deformity WHERE the ligament MEETS .. >the .. **bone** .. and since BISPHOSPHONATE is USED .. >**specifically** .. BONE .. **pain** .. AND bone .. **deformity** / >"remodeling" / spurs .. I assume you base your .. medical advice .. >ON .. what .. ? Wrong again, Tommy, fascia is not ligaments. Joan Wow he is really stretching his medical knowledge this time - bone pain, bone deformity, remodeling spurs..... plantar fascia?? Hello! Kelly >>The fascia is a ligament .. and it attaches to the bone .. and since >>fascia is associated with bone deformity WHERE the ligament MEETS .. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Joan On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:30:46 -0800, "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote: >The fascia is a ligament .. and it attaches to the bone .. and since >fascia is associated with bone deformity WHERE the ligament MEETS .. >the .. **bone** .. and since BISPHOSPHONATE is USED .. >**specifically** .. BONE .. **pain** .. AND bone .. **deformity** / >"remodeling" / spurs .. I assume you base your .. medical advice .. >ON .. what .. ? Wrong again, Tommy, fascia is not ligaments. Joan thanks for correcting that, joan. i fell into that flaw in his reasoning language usage. kate On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:good grief, rusty rump! there you go again! from your url above: << The guy has bone .. pain .. bisphosphonates are RECOMMENDED .. for .. ? .. bone pain .. plantar fasciitis is inflammation of ligament AND bone .. IE: heel spurs .. you disagree .. ? .. Who cares .. >> On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: READ! and STOP practicing medicine without a license! << Eat your .. porridge .. ? Hit the road .. you stupid cow .. >> On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:tell us, please, where in that url article's definition above does it say that plantar faciitis is bone mineral loss? << Enthesis .. ever hear the word .. ? http://www.answers.com/topic/enthesis?cat=health Trauma causes bone loss where fasciitis meets the .. bone. >> On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:and STOP confusing people with real illnesses and real injuries with your NONSENSE << Did I confuse the nurse .. is one bisphosphonate .. different from another bisphosphonate .. And by the way .. crippled nurse .. how come YOU or any OF .. anyone .. LIKE .. you .. weren't following the developement of these bisphosphonates .. these very EXPENSIVE bisphosphonates and .. ask .. OUT LOUD .. "is phytate a bisphosphonate" .. ? How come you didn't ask that question .. ? How come I asked it for over four years now .. and finally it has been shown .. to BE .. a bisphosphonate .. ? IF .. you .. OR .. anyone LIKE you .. is .. "so fkg good" .. like you .. say. Eh .. Merit .. Which .. it seems .. you have very .. little .. if .. any .. ? Maybe you should show some .. merit .. Or .. st.. fk .. u .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Jan 2, 10:42 pm, "Kelly" <kelly...@shaw.ca> wrote:Ironman is rather > dangerous here. [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > kate On Jan 3, 9:24 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:Enthesis .. ever hear the word .. ?http://www.answers.com/topic/ enthesis?cat=health Trauma causes bone loss where fasciitis meets the .. bone. << "Increased uptake, reactive remodeling, pain" Bisphosphonates recommended for all of the above. http://tinyurl.com/34lt5v "The calcaneal insertion of the plantar fascia (enthesis) is the most unyielding portion and may show increased uptake (bone scintigraphy) indicative of a focal osseous stress reaction.22 If fascial elasticity is altered, thereby affecting plantar biomechanics, the stresses absorbed by the calcaneus with heel strike also may be affected.This may cause microtrabecular strain culminating in reactive remodeling and concomitant inflammatory (pain) responses. " Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:good grief, rusty rump! there you go again! from your url above: << The guy has bone .. pain .. bisphosphonates are RECOMMENDED .. for .. ? .. bone pain .. plantar fasciitis is inflammation of ligament AND bone .. IE: heel spurs .. you disagree .. ? .. Who cares .. >> On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: READ! and STOP practicing medicine without a license! << Eat your .. porridge .. ? Hit the road .. you stupid cow .. >> On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:tell us, >> please, where in that url article's definition above does it say that >> plantar faciitis is bone mineral loss? << Enthesis .. ever hear the word .. ? http://www.answers.com/topic/enthesis?cat=health Trauma causes bone loss where fasciitis meets the .. bone. ***that's NOT what the url you just provided said nor did the other url! again, you are making assumptions and drawing erroneous, inapt and inane conclusions/correlations where no conclusions/correlations exist! this url merely said exactly what i thought enthesis meant, a connection to, junction of, tissue to bone. there is also NOTHING mentioned about bone/heel spurs nor mineral loss in either url you provided. just because soft tissue or facia is inflammed, or even injured, does NOT necessarily mean that connected bone is automatically going to be deformed/or begin deforming, produce excessive calcification nor begin demineralization. that's your imagination frenetically overworking itself! trauma does NOT "always" cause bone loss where fascia meets the bone. (nor do even injured joints "always" produce arthritic conditions, in the long term either.) annnnnd, our original poster wrote NOTHING, not one word, about experiencing "bone pain". (i've had plantar fasciitis, many years ago and recently; and i've had bone pain, on more occassions than i care to mention. if anybody does, i certainly know the difference between bone pain and soft tissue pain. and i have NO heel spurs.) that, too, is your imagination working on overdrive. he certainly didn't tell you that he had "bone pain". you either ASSumed, or simply wanted to believe he was experiencing "bone pain", because that would allow you to make it (force it to) fit into what you mistakenly believe is a valid paradigm that you've created with your obsession. (i'll bet you use a paring knife on the pieces, while working a jigsaw puzzle, too!) kate (mooooooooooo . . .) On Jan 3, 11:42 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:***that's NOT what the url you just provided said nor did the other url! << ??? I have to explain sht .. to .. YOU .. as I go along .. ? Enthesis .. ever hear the word .. ? http://www.answers.com/topic/enthesis?cat=health Trauma causes bone loss where fasciitis meets the .. bone. again, you are making assumptions and drawing erroneous, inapt and inane conclusions/correlations where no conclusions/correlations exist! << I supplied TWO medical studies showing clearly .. where rubber meets the road .. bone resorption / bone thinning takes .. PLACE. You .. 'say' .. "it isn't involved .. not NECESSARILY involved .. !!" IE: "just because soft tissue or facia is inflammed, or even injured, does NOT necessarily mean that connected bone is automatically going to be deformed/or begin deforming, produce excessive calcification nor begin demineralization. " Now who really cares whether YOU .. 'agree' .. ? The question IS .. can it BE .. ? I supplied two articles saying bone disappearance DOES happen .. and YOU 'say' .. not necessarily. Well all I've ever heard in these groups is .. supportive or .. non- supportive .. are VERY different .. matters .. Being supportive is .. PRIMARY .. or so I've been told .. YOUR .. foad .. attitude .. ON .. a thread in which studies WERE / are provided .. is non-supportive .. Just because YOU cannot understand / "confuse" .. something .. doesn't mean ... others .. cannot. In fact by what I've seen of you .. you rank pretty much in the lower tenth of the .. class .. IN .. both meanings OF the word. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Jan 3, 2:30 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:good > grief, rusty rump! there you go again! from your url above: << [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > kate > (mooooooooooo . . .) Actually Tom, I rarely have pain in my heel where a heel spur would exist. I have pain in the mornings, which is very severe, and it is located just behind the fifth metatarsal and comes all of the way up to my forefoot. It's all beneath my foot though, right where the fascia is. I don't have any "bone pain", it's all where that fascia is. Actually, I looked at my MRI the other day, and it showed that I have no calcification anywhere on my foot, which is a relief. Look people, I am just a very passionate runner, biker, and swimmer. I wanted to do the San Fransisco marathon, but I couldn't because this happened. I wanted to do the iron man in Hawaii, but I couldn't because of this. I am in pain every day of my life and the doctors, my parents, and now my friends say that they can do no more for me. It's been a year since I've ran pain free, or even since I've walked pain free. I just want this to go away. I don't think I need doctors, or unlicensed health people. I need a miracle. Yeah ~adam >On Jan 3, 11:42 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> >wrote:***that's NOT what the url you just provided said nor did the [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> kate >> (mooooooooooo . . .) On Jan 4, 12:32 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote: I need a miracle. << Well buddie .. NOW you've gone and done it .. I think you have JUST alienated everyone BUT .. me. How about "impossible" .. is that close enough to a miracle .. ? EVERYONE over the years has said .. it is IMPOSSIBLE that iron is involved in diabetes because .. EVERYONE with diabetes is iron deficient .. therefore .. obviously .. there is NO WAY they are ALL iron overloaded .. it is "just impossible" .. Sooo .. we have -100% .. negative everyone with diabetes .. to what we have NOW .. everyone with diabetes IS .. iron overloaded. Sooo .. from impossible to EVERYONE .. having it. Sooo .. unless you and I have different definitions FOR .. miracle .. then I would say .. the work I've been pushing HAS been shown to be .. miraculous. That's using .. reason. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Jan 4, 12:32 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote: Actually Tom, I rarely have pain in my heel where a heel spur would exist. << "Enthesis inflammation manifests as plantar fasciitis" http://www.emedicine.com/radio/topic578.htm On Jan 4, 12:32 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote: I have pain in the mornings, which is very severe, and it is located just behind the fifth metatarsal and comes all of the way up to my forefoot. It's all beneath my foot though, right where the fascia is. I don't have any "bone pain", it's all where that fascia is. << "Reactive edema in the adjacent tissue beneath the tendon is linked to involvement of the tendon sheath." Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Actually, I looked at my MRI the other day, and it showed that I have no > calcification anywhere on my foot, which is a relief. [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On Jan 4, 8:41 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:"Enthesis inflammation manifests as plantar fasciitis" << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthesopathy Enthesopathy From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In medicine, an enthesopathy refers to an inflammation of entheses. Examples include spondoarthropathy such as ankylosing spondylitis, plantar fasciitis, and Achilles tendinitis. Examples Enthesopathies are disorders of peripheral ligamentous or muscular attachments. E.g.: Adhesive capsulitis of shoulder Rotator cuff syndrome of shoulder and allied disorders Periarthritis of shoulder Scapulohumeral fibrositis Enthesopathy of elbow region Enthesopathy of wrist and carpus Bursitis of hand or wrist Periarthritis of wrist Enthesopathy of hip region Bursitis of hip Gluteal tendinitis Iliac crest spur Psoas tendinitis Trochanteric tendinitis Enthesopathy of knee Enthesopathy of ankle and tarsus Other peripheral enthesopathies Unspecified enthesopathy Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Jan 4, 12:32 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > - Show quoted text - "Enthesis inflammation manifests as plantar fasciitis"<< Somebody somewhere thinks bisphosphonate will work for enthesis .. and coincidentally .. kidney stones seem to be found in people who RESPOND to bisphosphonates. "Process for treating lameness by administration of a bisphosphonic ..."Dichloromethylene bisphosphonate (Cl2 MBP) inhibits bone resorption through .... during enthesopathy of the insertion of the tendons and the ligaments. ... www.patentstorm.us/patents/6696429-description.html - 41k - " Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Jan 4, 8:41 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> > wrote:"Enthesis inflammation manifests as plantar fasciitis" [quoted text clipped - 155 lines] > > - Show quoted text - pussy tommy wrote: > Therefore since both treatments seem to work .. then > is calcification the problem in plantar fasciitis ? fasciitis: Inflammation of any fascia. No, IDIOT/PUSSY/NUMBNUTZ, it is NOT calcification. ... If stupidity was painful, numbnutz Tommy would get help. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 >pussy tommy wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 HA! What is this??? This really doesn't answer my questions... and are calling me stupid? ummmmm... ~adam >>pussy tommy wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > ummmmm... > ~adam Hi Adam,,,, Welcome to ASA..... No, he is responding to someone other than you. Every so often you will see a warning to new people about Tom or rustybutt or whatever about some of his posts are dangerous. I think you have html turned on and none of us use that in the newsgroup because it causes problems for some peoples method of posting in this newsgroup. Please continue to post and ask questions. We really try to help each other with what we have lived with and what worked best for us. Harv Adam wrote again: > Ummmmm, I'm confused. > I never said i didn't like your "opinion" about me. > You're not even the same guy I've been talking to. > pussy tommy wrote: Adam, again that wasn't addressed to you. The stable, regular members of ASA try to warn newcomers such as you of the mentally unbalanced trolls who pile up on those newcomers. ... Intel on the inside. Idiot Tom on the keyboard. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Adam wrote: > HA! > What is this??? > This really doesn't answer my questions... and are calling me stupid? Sorry Adam, you didn't notice to whom that was addressed: > pussy tommy wrote: I don't thing that's your name. <VBG> ... Tom is a mental tourist. His mind wanders! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Pussy tommy wrote: > You will notice **everyone** who has posted to this > thread has attacked .. **me** .. ? Not a big surprise or too difficult to comprehend, is it? > You notice .. ? No one can fail to notice your blather. ... Tom reminds me of London ÄÄ always in a fog. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Squirrely Jo wrote: > I don't understand this part, about the antibodies. and that you > could die from it. I have had it for years and nothing has been > done about it and I am still alive and kicking or at least I > think I am. Mary and I talked with my podiatrist after I wrote that piece. She said, "Yes, if the cause of the inflammation is a bacteral infection/invasion, the patient could die." I also included a definition from the Arthritis Foundation. More from the AF: plantar fasciitis, inflammation of a thick band of connective tissue, can feel like the arch is tearing. ...common in people with RA, AS and Reactive arthritis, as well as those with FM. Other causes include overweight, standing too long, having arches that are too high or too flat, or wearing unsupportive, hard-soled shoes. One of the biggest problems is that everyday walking can be painful, yet walking for exercise is one of the best therpies. ...use ice and NSAIDS - Advil, Motrin, Aleve - to reduce inflammation. ...minimize time on your feet, stretching the tissues. ...wear heel cushion in supportive, soft-soled shoes. ...90% improve after 2 months of home treatment. ...If not, night splint and/or walking cast, surgery. Heel-Healing Stretches Before you get out of bed, and throughout the day: 1) Slowly flex the foot and toes to stretch the tissue on the bottom of the sore foot. 2) Do gentle ankle rolls to keep the tissues flexible. 3) Sit on the edge of a bed and roll the foot back and forth over a tennis ball. ... Ever notice how much Cheeze Whiz resembles silicone caulking? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 Blah!!! All of this is so confusing... I give up! Bye! ~adam >Squirrely Jo wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >... Ever notice how much Cheeze Whiz resembles silicone caulking? >___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 On Jan 4, 9:33 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> wrote: Blah!!! All of this is so confusing... I give up! Bye! ~adam << Dumbing down as far as one can. Your foot hits ground .. equals .. trauma. Trauma causes loss of bone .. This is counteracted .. somehow .. by bisphosphonates .. very popular drugs. The above is ALL .. proven .. already. Plantar Fasciitis has no **universal** .. accepted .. cause .. BUT it is KNOWN to be caused BY something which uses bisphosphonates to treat .. it. Sooo .. is your plantar fasciitis .. related to .. the PROVEN .. 'it' .. ? That it treated by bisphosphonates .. ? That .. enthesis .. ? As to 'how long does this last' .. ? You must have noticed the people who have said they 'had' it .. are still HERE years later .. usually with much more severe forms of the .. pain. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > >Squirrely Jo wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Plantar Fasciitis has no **universal** .. accepted .. cause .. BUT it is KNOWN to be caused BY something which uses bisphosphonates to treat .. it. "Enthesis inflammation manifests as plantar fasciitis. In medicine, an enthesopathy refers to an inflammation of entheses. Examples include spondoarthropathy such as ankylosing spondylitis, plantar fasciitis, and Achilles tendinitis. " << Bisphosphonates are shown to BE .. good .. IN this disease spondoarthropathy which is KNOWN to cause plantar fasciitis .. then one can wonder whether .. all plantar fasciitis is related to this .. since nobody seems to actually KNOW what causes plantar fasciitis but they do .. know .. bisphosphonates .. work. Summary Expert Opinion on Pharmacotherapy January 2005, Vol. 6, No. 1, Pages 35-43 (doi:10.1517/14656566.6.1.35) Bisphosphonates as anti-inflammatory agents in ankylosing spondylitis and spondylarthropathies Éric Toussirot, Daniel Wendling University Hospital Jean Minjoz Bd Fleming, Department of Rheumatology, F-25030 Besançon, Cédex, France. eric.toussirot@ufc- chu.univ-fcomte.fr NSAIDs remain the cornerstone of the treatment of ankylosing spondylitis (AS) and spondylarthropathies (SpA), and have been successfully used for a long time in these diseases. However, some patients remain refractory or intolerant to NSAIDs and new effective treatments have recently emerged, namely TNF-α-blocker agents. Other therapeutic options targeting the bone, such as bisphosphonates, have also been tried in refractory AS or SpA patients. The anti- inflammatory properties of bisphosphonates give the rationale for the use of these compounds in AS and SpA, and include the inhibition of antigen presenting cells, the modulation of pro-inflammatory cytokine generation, and also a decreased bone mass in AS. Open trials using pamidronate gave favourable results, and one controlled study comparing the efficacy of pamidronate 10 versus 60mg showed that the 60mg dose was effective in AS. Further studies are required to confirm these preliminary data and to better determine the optimal regimen (dosage and rhythm) of administration. Forward Links to Citing Articles ??ric Toussirot, Daniel Wendling. (2007) Antiinflammatory treatment with bisphosphonates in ankylosing spondylitis. Current Opinion in Rheumatology 19:4, 340 CrossRef Carlo Palazzi, Angela Padula, Maria Montaruli, Ernesta Pennese, Ignazio Olivieri. (2006) Pharmacological management of undifferentiated spondyloarthropathies. Expert Opinion on Investigational Drugs 15:1, 39-46 Online publication date: 1-Jan-2006. Summary | Full Text | PDF (138 KB) | PDF Plus (270 KB) PDF (148 KB) PDF Plus (252 KB) Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Jan 4, 9:33 pm, "Flaminguitar3211 via MedKB.com" <u40305@uwe> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > - Show quoted text - |
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