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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / December 2007OTP Just To Think About
If an immigrant is over 65, they can apply for SSI and Medicaid and get more than my mom gets for Social Securty, and she worked from 1944 till 2004, only gettin g $791< /SPAN> per month because she was born in 1924 and there is a "catch 22". It is interesting that the federal government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890.00 and each can also obtain an additional $580.00 in social assistance for a total of $2,470.00 This compares very well to a single pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of for 40 TO 50 years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement. Maybe our "pensioners" should apply as refugees! Consider sending this to all your American friends, so we can all be ticked off and maybe get the refugees cut back to $1, 012.00 and the pensioners up to $2,470.00 and enjoy some of the money we were forced to submit to the Government over the last 40 or 50 or 60 years. Please forward to every American to expose what our elected politicians have been doing over the past 11, years to the over-taxed Americans. Send this to every American Tax Payer You know! Oops, this is another one of those incorrect things going around in email. Go to Snopes and check it out. This story started in Canada a few years ago and someone is changing it to USA and sending it out again. Not true in either instance. Ann As to this not having a place on ASA, many things off topic are posted here. You will notice it was titled "OTP" and you did not have to read it. Neither do you have to agree with it. I didn't say whether I did agree or didn't agree. I still feel it is something we should think about. In many cases, people who have lived and worked here for years are suffering because of financial problems -- some their own fault and some not. Whether or not you are one of those can influence your view of things. And may I remind you that an immigrant and an illegal alien are quite different beings as far as our country and government are concerned -- and certainly as far as I am concerned. I would not have the nerve to sneak into a country illegally and then demand that I be given the same rights and privileges that all legal residents of that country have. Maybe you would??? In the past I have apologized for posting things that I later agreed should not have been posted. However, in this case I will not apologize; I still think this is something that should concern us all, even if the figures are not correct and there are poor struggling people in the world today who would very much like to be here in our country in any way possible. To think about it or not to think about it is your concern. Enough said. Gwen > Oops, this is another one of those incorrect things going around in > email. Go to Snopes and check it out. This story started in Canada a > few years ago and someone is changing it to USA and sending it out > again. Not true in either instance. > Ann as to otp, yes you labeled it correctly, but there it stops by posting a factually false piece, you promulgate false assumptions and attitudes. the simple fact is that the piece is an urban myth if we are to approach finding solutions to real issues, it has to start with true information. 'refugees' are given diff. treatment, for a short period of time because they 'are' refugees - these are a very small number of the total legal immigrants into the usa or any other country. they come in for humanitarian reasons which is fine by me. regular old fashioned immigrants don't qualify for anything until they first have permanent status, and even then must wait at least a minimum of 5 years before qualifying for any support programs [a given locality may of course provide services, but state/federal has the waiting period] in any case, they simply won't get 'more' than a citizen does. and if you take a look at the true numbers [money] for ssi, you will see it is paltry. now - the most important part give specific suggestions as to what you DO want to see - write your member of congress and senate - no - don't email - those mostly get filed. put pen to paper and present your thoughts - THAT actually gets read and counted. the overwhelming number of immigrants are lawful,tax paying individuals entitled tot he same consideration as the rest of us - all too often, they get tarred with the broad brush that somehow they are taking advantage - as to the 'grey market' illegals - remember that they too are often in jobs that withhold taxes that get sent in to the gov - but the person is using a fake ss number, so they; aren't accruing any benefit for those deductions - had a case very near my office last year - a thai market/restulrant got raided by ins - 11 of 17 workers turned out to be illegals, using 'somebody's' ss number. some of 'em had worked there for many years - the gov doesn't give back any of the deductions withheld from those years of payments - it's just deportation time. there are a very great many folk in similar straights. but how about those working for cash? - aren't they taking advantage? yup - but no more so than all the citizens working under the table. and you know what, last reports i read say that those working 'off the books' who are legal citizens out number those illegals...by about 2/1. what are we doing about all those folk who aren't paying their fair share? aren't they just as big a burden? yes, we need to fix the border situation - you bet we do, and yes, we need to go ahead and decide what to do about all the businesses that hire illegals - you do know how seldom any real penalty is placed against the employer? to be blunt, this just isn't a simple problem that can be addressed as the fake email you cited suggests. i am being so adamant because this is a situation that didn't crop up over just a couple years. it has been decades in the making and as such, it's going to take a whole lot more than sloganeering to come lup with viable solutions. it is so easy to broad brush stroke, but underneath it all, it remains that 'first' you fix the border, then you deal with the employer(s), 'then' you decide just what you're going to do with +11 million folks that have lived here [albeit illegally] for years. here is what i know to be true: we - society - would be very hard pressed to come up with the money it would cost to actually deport all those folks. yes, a bunch are mexican - wonder how much it would cost to bus 'em all back down? so, that's about 4 - 5 million...now, what about the remaining 6 million who come from altogether diff. countries - how do we send them home? after we arrest em, where to we stick 'em until we can ship them out? right here in the d.c. region it is estimated that there are somewhere around 50 thousand illegal salvadorians... but whatever country of origin, you have fathers and mothers who have children born here - and those kids are citizens [like it or not] - if you deport mom/dad - the child is still a citizen. and on and on all those years that it took to get us to where we are - let's hear real - practical - suggestions for how to deal with it... paul > As to this not having a place on ASA, many things off topic are posted here. > You will notice it was titled "OTP" and you did not have to read it. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > again. Not true in either instance. > > Ann > as to otp, yes you labeled it correctly, but there it stops > [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > paul Yes and well said for the most part... Somewhere between 20 and 40 million people in the USA now that knowingly broke the law and demand all the benefits of SS and Medicare. I have been in the Soc.Sec. office and watched and waited my turn. My youngest daughter was in a overturning car wreck where the roof came down and split her scull. There is one big hospital in Houston that handles serious trauma and the ambulances go there automatically. It was packed with people in the waiting room. My daughter was bleeding to death and we did not know the condition of her skull and brain. On the dolly, she was behind about 20 people ahead of her to be looked at. I just wanted to scream,,,,,.... Aaah well, she did not have a cracked skull and it was a lot of blood loss but at the time,,, who knew... At some point,,, people should take a look at what this situation is costing the average person. You are right in that the people that hire illegal's should have to pay door closing fines. I am well aware who has let this situation go on and on until it has reached the way it is now and done nothing. thanks for listening Harv > thanks for listening > Harv anytime! too many just can't seem to find the time to actually delve into this and figure out the root causes - all too easy to just sit back and say 'they' are responsible. with your daughter's situation you saw first hand [fortunately without it turning out badly] how out of kilter things have gotten. well there are a couple of elections coming up over the next few years, perhaps it's time to get the attention of those running and try to hold their feet to the fire? be well paul > As to this not having a place on ASA, many things off topic are posted here. > You will notice it was titled "OTP" and you did not have to read it. And you didn't have to post it. > Neither do you have to agree with it. And when someone posts ignorant tripe I'll point that out, thanks. Don't agree with it, well by your own reasoning you don't have to read it. > I didn't say whether I did agree or > didn't agree. I still feel it is something we should think about. Your post encouraged removing financial help to refugees. That's a pretty sick thing to "think about". > In many > cases, people who have lived and worked here for years are suffering because > of financial problems -- some their own fault and some not. Whether or not > you are one of those can influence your view of things. Yeah! Get those refugees! Yeah! Light some torches! Freak. > And may I remind you that an immigrant and an illegal alien are quite > different beings as far as our country and government are concerned And so are refugees. You remember them, right? The target group of your post? > -- and > certainly as far as I am concerned. I would not have the nerve to sneak > into a country illegally and then demand that I be given the same rights and > privileges that all legal residents of that country have. Maybe you > would??? Do you even know what a refugee is? What are they "demanding" while they're fleeing for their lives? How are they sneaking in? Your ignorance is a bit on the nose. > In the past I have apologized for posting things that I later agreed should > not have been posted. You're not sorry about targeting minority groups. Good for you. Get rid of those damned refugees. Make 'em go back where they came from! Oh...wait...they can't... > However, in this case I will not apologize; I still > think this is something that should concern us all, even if the figures are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> again. Not true in either instance. >> Ann  Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Ari, can we agree to drop this? You are going way beyond anything I mentioned or thought about. Gwen >> As to this not having a place on ASA, many things off topic are posted >> here. You will notice it was titled "OTP" and you did not have to read [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>> again. Not true in either instance. >>> Ann How revolting of you to post this. I doubt very much any pensioner would exchange lives with a refugee and endure what they have endured for a paltry few hundred dollars a month to help them get by until they are able to find work (which most do). Instead of going after the government that has for decades mismanaged spending (and is currently bleeding money into no bid contracts and all sorts of other crap that we're all well aware of), you go after one of the most vulnerable groups in society - and try to exclude them from it. I can't believe anyone thinks this is suitable material to post here. How about you trade places with a family in Darfur for the next few decades and then return to the US as a refugee and claim such a luxurious 2K a month allowance? I guarantee you that any refugee family abroad would gladly trade places for a chance to work for 40+ years and raise a family without them being raped, tortured, or murdered (perhaps all of the above). Regards, Ari Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ > How revolting of you to post this. I doubt very much any pensioner would > exchange lives with a refugee and endure what they have endured for a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to exclude them from it. I can't believe anyone thinks this is suitable > material to post here. You are correct,,,, this has no place here but it also has replies that are full of holes as far as thinking goes. Why is it no one ever blames the countries south of the USA for not applying their resoures to making jobs and a way for people to support themselves IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. NAME ME A COUNTRY IN THIS WIDE WORLD THAT HAS OPEN BORDERS in a time full of terrorist activity. > How about you trade places with a family in Darfur for the next few > decades and then return to the US as a refugee and claim such a luxurious > 2K a month allowance? As an illegal or legal resident? I guarantee you that any refugee family > abroad would gladly trade places for a chance to work for 40+ years and > raise a family without them being raped, tortured, or murdered (perhaps [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ari For two hundred years we have built a country with rules,, laws and a war that divided this country and killed millions of citizens to have a country where you can raise a family safely no matter your color, rich or poor and laws where an immigrant can legally be part of it. Would you have it where the people have no responsibility for knowingly breaking the laws??? If your answer is yes,,,, join the people that think like you and register to vote. Harv >> How revolting of you to post this. I doubt very much any pensioner would >> exchange lives with a refugee and endure what they have endured for a [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Harv Harv, I've left your reply as is. I'm not exactly sure what you're ranting about, but it seems you have a lot of anger built up inside and want to vent it no matter how inappropriate your targets. The OP was about refugees and allowances, and now you're ranting on about the civil war and Latin America (I assume, as you don't seem capable of actually referring to them directly, and also completely and utterly inapplicable here) like someone who has lost their grasp on reality and cannot remember why they started spewing crap in the first place. Do you know what a refugee is, Harv? I asked you before if why you were confusing the terms refugee and illegal immigrant and you ignored the question. Find another group to hate, Harv, I'm sure you'll have no lack of targets. Ari Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ >> I guarantee you that any refugee family >>> abroad would gladly trade places for a chance to work for 40+ years and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> >>> Ari Hi Ari,,,, I am well aware how Au deals with this problem and I wish the USA did as well. You are talking about one group of many peoples and I am talking about another which seems like rants to you because you did not realize this fact. Is Au going to send an army to where ever this is to put a stop to it??? Are you waiting for the worlds policemen to do it? Harv >>> I guarantee you that any refugee family >>>> abroad would gladly trade places for a chance to work for 40+ years and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Harv What ARE you on about? I suggest stopping the medical marijuana mate...or upping the dose, whichever works... Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ >>>> I guarantee you that any refugee family >>>>> abroad would gladly trade places for a chance to work for 40+ years [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > What ARE you on about? I suggest stopping the medical marijuana mate...or > upping the dose, whichever works... LOLOL,,,, lets let it go huh. Harv While I agree with Ari that this has no place on our ASA board, I can't ignore it. To check out the excellent Snopes article debunking this information, go to http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/refugees.asp . In trying to educate myself to the issue, I just read an older (mid nineties) novel called THE TORTILLA CURTAIN by TC Boyle. It helped me understand the plight of immigrants a little better, as well as the fear and, sometimes, hatred on the part of those of us lucky enough to have ancestors who immigrated here a long time ago. diane > While I agree with Ari that this has no place on our ASA board, I > can't ignore it. To check out the excellent Snopes article debunking [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > diane Did it help you understand or deal with Illegal immigrants? Harv >> While I agree with Ari that this has no place on our ASA board, I >> can't ignore it. To check out the excellent Snopes article debunking [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Did it help you understand or deal with Illegal immigrants? > Harv Since when is a refugee an illegal immigrant, Harvey? >> Did it help you understand or deal with Illegal immigrants? >> Harv > > Since when is a refugee an illegal immigrant, Harvey? We do not have any refugees except those that come from Cuba. Where do your refugees come from? Harv hey harvey - there are many thousands every year: "There is no quota limit on the number of people who may obtain political asylum, however, there is an annual limit of 10,000 on the number of people who may obtain permanent residency based on political asylum." ethiopia, sudan, niger, bosnia, ex-soviet block states, el salvador [ from the civil war era - i.n.s. is still processing 'em], to name just a few. currently there is another special group: Iraqis who assisted our troops and are now at risk - [disclaimer: my susie works in a large law firm here in town, and they have a pro bono program that represents 'refugees' before the i.n.s. hearings boards.] unless the refugee has a group or organization willing to be held responsible for that person, the individual is held in detention down in the tidewater area of virginia [this serves the whole mid-atlantic region and is just one af many across the country] oftentimes the most practical assistance is finding a sponsoring agency to do follow with education, job training/placement, temporary housing assist. etc. http://resources.lawinfo.com/index.cfm?action=results1&cat=106&act=faq&keywords= &state=&subcatid=183&i=a 1980 refugee act Every year millions of people around the world are displaced by war, famine, civil unrest, and political unrest. "When the individual has been in the United States for a year as an asylum, they are given the opportunity to submit the paperwork to become permanent residents. In 1980 the Refugee Act was introduced, and it laid out the procedures and policies for asylums and refugees. As a country that prides itself on freedom, the United States continuously takes in asylees and refugees. Those that submit applications are from no particular areas, but rather come from different regions of the world. These include Europe, Africa, Asia, and Latin America. Once in the United States they have the opportunity to gain permanent residency, but this is by no means guaranteed. While there is no limit on the number of individuals that may be granted asylum, there is a limit on how many can gain permanent residency after having the asylum status for one year. Individuals who have participated in acts of persecution or assisted others in this matter will automatically be denied asylum. The current annual cap is set at 10,000 asylees. Others that can be granted asylum status include the spouse of the applicant and their children under 21 years of age. In addition, they must be present with the application when they are interviewed by the USCIS. " > >> Did it help you understand or deal with Illegal immigrants? > >> Harv [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Harv Yes,,, very good and legal. That was not my question. Harv > hey harvey - there are many thousands every year: "There is no quota > limit on the number of people who may obtain political asylum, however, [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >> Harv yes, i should have specified that. it's a knotty problem with no easy answer. the book didn't deal with policy issues at all, but rather humanized the problem it also illustrated how there was no clear right or wrong in the situation on either side. the immigrants were part good/part bad, and the Americans were part good/part bad, just like all of us. just human beings trying to protect what they have--on both sides. > Did it help you understand or deal with Illegal immigrants? > Harv |
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