Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / September 2007
otp -1st rehab assessment
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d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 01:18 GMT i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. she was nice and quick to spot things. basically, her assessment was that i was almost functional, and there's still some swelling and tenderness. also said that my sense of balance is absent, which was obvious to me without her saying it. she actually had to catch me before i kissed the floor, when she had me stand solely on my broken leg. caught myself with the counter when i stood on my good leg. she said considering the amount of skeletal damage i've had over the years, she believes that i'm a master at adapting, both correctly and incorrectly. i'm sure of that.
there's going to be some water therapy, in the tank with a treadmill. we will be working on rom, but mostly balance stabilization and stamina. this stupid injury has caused me not to be able to walk for more than five minutes, even with my cane. got some rom exercises to start with--the towel on the floor thing, where i move the towel with my foot, while not using my hip to make it easier; and the other one rotating my foot using the yellow band for resistance; and standing on one foot at a counter while holding onto it and letting go of the counter until it no longer feels safe to not hold on to something.
and, i admitted to her and to myself, for the first time, when i gave it voice that i now freak out about falling, whenever i have to go out of that doorway (and also in the shower, when the shower base gets a teensy bit soapy. i keep a folding step stool in the shower to sit down on, when that happens).
i swear i stand in that doorway for at least a full 5 minutes, just struggling with myself, until i can get up my courage enough to force myself to go through it and step down on the carport concrete. i didn't have this kind of fear issue after i shattered my wrist falling through that doorway. and this one was a very minor bone-break by comparison to that. i guess twice broken must have convinced my psyche to become too wary of that doorway. who ever heard of being afraid of a doorway?! what a wuss i am!
i have to work on that, somehow, though she didn't give me any suggestions. i'm totally not sure how, yet, cuz i've never experienced this kind of fear before. (well, i did get freaky about people making left turns in front of me, after my car wreck. felt like another possible head-on wreck coming at me every time. but i somehow unconsciously got past that within a week of driving again.). but this is getting worse, instead of better. i wonder if temporarily painting that door and its door trim a different color might work/help?--sounds dumb, i know, but i'm wracking my brain for some kind of way of seeing this fear differently or maybe that's really not seeing this fear. i'm thinking out-loud as i write this.
anyway, enough of gladys goodfairy's saga.
kate
ANN M - 26 Sep 2007 01:50 GMT Kate, I understand perfectly the irrational fear that can overcome us after a trauma. For years after a major car wreck in which I was a passenger, I insisted on doing the driving no matter how far or who I was with. I'm still not completely comfortable with someone else driving (control freak?). How about installing hand rails just outside the door? When you open the door you can grab on to a rail with one hand and if you have to turn around to close the door, you can hang on to the other rail with the other hand? Just a suggestion to make it safer.
Ann
d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 19:42 GMT Kate, I understand perfectly the irrational fear that can overcome us after a trauma. For years after a major car wreck in which I was a passenger, I insisted on doing the driving no matter how far or who I was with. I'm still not completely comfortable with someone else driving (control freak?). How about installing hand rails just outside the door? When you open the door you can grab on to a rail with one hand and if you have to turn around to close the door, you can hang on to the other rail with the other hand? Just a suggestion to make it safer.
Ann
thanks, ann. i don't think you are a control freak at all. you were just trying to feel more comfortable with the uncertainty of the unexpected. isn't it amazing how easy it is to develop a fear of something and how much effort it takes to get rid of that fear?
it's a good suggestion. i've been having that particular dialog with my son, nephew and nephew-in-law about some kind of grab bar for that doorway. does anybody know if there are any grab bars or grab rings made of brass or gold colored metal, or even wood, that can be purchased? i haven't researched that, yet. but, if there isn't, would a bath towel bar or ring be strong enough? i've thought about putting a piece of galvanized pipe inside a towel bar's brass tube to make it stronger, if that were not the case.
during that same discussion, my son wanted to build a ramp for that doorway, which was endearingly amusing to me, because the step is only 4 inches. but, knowing me as i do, a ramp would probably insure my falling again, after 32 years of my conditioned knowing there is a 4-inch step there. but, i'm probably not the only one who generally walks with my eyes focused ahead of me, and not always down.
odd when i think of it, the front door has a very small porch with the same height step down onto the concrete path to my mailbox and i've never fallen there. come to think of it, so does the doorway from my breakfast nook to my patio have a 4" step, as does the doorway from the livingroom to the patio, i've never fallen going out any of those either. but i've fallen dozens of/countless times, over the years, going out that mudroom to carport doorway. i wonder why? (now, i'm analyzing--all the doors to the outside open from right to left and inwards. so, that's not it.) that seems very strange. there has to be a logical reason for why i only fall going out that particular doorway. maybe it's a malevolent doorway?LOL
kate
Diane - 26 Sep 2007 19:52 GMT kate, i like that you're brainstorming ways of installing a grab bar of some sort. excellent solution.
until then, i'm going to reframe your fear as a positive rather than negative emotion. it puts you on alert as you go over that step that you need to be extra careful, so thank your body and mind for helping you stay safe.
love you,
diane
d'huit - 27 Sep 2007 00:34 GMT kate, i like that you're brainstorming ways of installing a grab bar of some sort. excellent solution.
until then, i'm going to reframe your fear as a positive rather than negative emotion. it puts you on alert as you go over that step that you need to be extra careful, so thank your body and mind for helping you stay safe.
love you,
diane
i love you, too, sweetie. (((((((((((diane))))))))) just cuz. hmmmm . . . nice job of reframing! you're right, not all fears are bad things. some fears are very useful, protective and motivate pro-activity. thanks, diane. i think i definitely needed to be reminded of that. this hurricane kate was building up to begin her assault on this particularly tender coastline. thanks for reminding me that i don't need to decimate it and that it has value.<smile>
kate
jofirey - 26 Sep 2007 19:56 GMT > Kate, I understand perfectly the irrational fear that can overcome us > after a trauma. For years after a major car wreck in which I was a [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > kate You might have to go online, but I'm quite sure the grab bars that get installed next to bathtubs would come in polished brass to match other hardware.
I'd also want to make sure it extended far enough down to be a help in getting back up if you did fall.
Could the step be make larger? I've thought about doing that with ours so it would be a bigger target to step down on. For me it isn't the distance. Its the whole notion of one of my not so hot knees having to be weight bearing while it is bent.
Jo
d'huit - 27 Sep 2007 01:00 GMT > Kate, I understand perfectly the irrational fear that can overcome us > after a trauma. For years after a major car wreck in which I was a [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > kate You might have to go online, but I'm quite sure the grab bars that get installed next to bathtubs would come in polished brass to match other hardware.
I'd also want to make sure it extended far enough down to be a help in getting back up if you did fall.
Could the step be make larger? I've thought about doing that with ours so it would be a bigger target to step down on. For me it isn't the distance. Its the whole notion of one of my not so hot knees having to be weight bearing while it is bent.
Jo
thanks, jo. i'll check online and at local stores. you're right about the length having to accomodate a hand sliding motion as i step down those 4 inches. and no, it cannot be made larger. the step is the house itself. i mean the doorway threshold is 4 inches above the concrete carport parking area (same as the patio). so, there is no actual stair riser that can be enlarged.
boy, i kind of know that feeling about not trusting a knee to be bent while weight bearing. when my menial meniscus was a problem, causing my knee to give out on me, stairs of any kind were iffy at best. heck, even walking was iffy at best. pain is not fun. i wish your knees didn't bother you, hon.
kate
ANN M - 27 Sep 2007 02:11 GMT I think Jo's suggestion of a bathroom grab bar might work for you. I have two safety bars installed in my bathroom and they are pretty sturdy. Mine are white, but I know you can get black and probably aluminum (silvery) colored. These are not towel bars, but are for handicapped folks like us to hang on to. Tell those men of yours to check these out.
Ann
BettyB - 28 Sep 2007 03:26 GMT >it's a good suggestion. i've been having that particular dialog with my >son, nephew and nephew-in-law about some kind of grab bar for that doorway. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >kate Kate, you might look at or call RV supply stores or dealership. Most RV's have strong grab bars to help people get up the stairs which are frequently steep. -- BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
d'huit - 28 Sep 2007 03:54 GMT On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:42:00 -0700, "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote:
>it's a good suggestion. i've been having that particular dialog with my >son, nephew and nephew-in-law about some kind of grab bar for that doorway. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >kate Kate, you might look at or call RV supply stores or dealership. Most RV's have strong grab bars to help people get up the stairs which are frequently steep.
good idea, betty! thank you!
kate (like your sig file, too, btw) -- BettyB -- www.flamingo-code.com "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." - Stephen Hawking
jofirey - 26 Sep 2007 02:12 GMT >i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate Kate, can any kind of adaptation be made at that step to make is safer for you. If not a handrail, maybe a grab bar on the wall like you would see in a bath tub?
You need something to make you feel safer and be safer as well. I hate steps of any kind and avoid them when ever possible. Especially stepping down. And the one I hate the most is the one going from the house out into the garage.
Jo
d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 19:54 GMT >i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate Kate, can any kind of adaptation be made at that step to make is safer for you. If not a handrail, maybe a grab bar on the wall like you would see in a bath tub?
You need something to make you feel safer and be safer as well. I hate steps of any kind and avoid them when ever possible. Especially stepping down. And the one I hate the most is the one going from the house out into the garage.
Jo
reading this made me chuckle at myself, jo. after what i just wrote in reply to ann's comment, it makes me think i should hate the "malevolent" mudroom/carport doorway step.LOL i've never even thought about hating it. i just figured i was a klutz.
yep. i've been thinking, with a lot of "encouragement" from the young males in my life, about a grab bar. i need to start looking for a brass one. lots of times (a small percentage of the time), though, i've fallen there while carrying things outside. might have to adapt that carrying process, too. i mean, adapt being able to even use the bar while carrying something outside. thanks, jo.
kate
Kelly - 26 Sep 2007 23:00 GMT Hi Kate, one of the things I have been thinking of for safety's sake in our new house is the opening doors with my hands full thing. (of course making several trips is not one of the things I have considered naturally!). I am thinking of a cart on wheels just inside my house. That way I could put the items on and then step up. Have to see what way the doors go but think that will work. If not the cart will be inside the garage door. Just a tea wagon size (probably Ikea). Just a thought. I am putting a bar there. I find in this rental it is a help (even with a small step to go over.
Kelly
>>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >>she [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > > kate d'huit - 27 Sep 2007 00:18 GMT Hi Kate, one of the things I have been thinking of for safety's sake in our new house is the opening doors with my hands full thing. (of course making several trips is not one of the things I have considered naturally!). I am thinking of a cart on wheels just inside my house. That way I could put the items on and then step up. Have to see what way the doors go but think that will work. If not the cart will be inside the garage door. Just a tea wagon size (probably Ikea). Just a thought. I am putting a bar there. I find in this rental it is a help (even with a small step to go over.
Kelly
lever door handles are the best thing for opening the door with my elbow or upper arm when my arms are full. i love them! i've been very slowly converting all the door knobs to levers, not because they are expensive (they're not), but my to-do list is lonnnnnng. but, i think you said you are in a rental and your landlord might not go along with that.
just to give you an idea---i actually have large-ish a folding wire cart with wheels that i generally use at christmastime (think i got it from a carol wright catalog for about $30) to unload my car and carry the secret prezzies into the house. i like that i can fold it and make it fit into a very limited space.
i also have two folding, pretty and durable upholstry fabric, totes with folding wheels. theses totes fold up to the size and shape of a large clutch purse, about an inch thick. these can actually be used instead of a purse, when folded, because they have zippered pockets and an attractive matching cloth short strap handle, as well as the longer toting strap handle for use when unfolded. i keep the totes in my car's pouches on the back of the front seat, for shopping anywhere. i love those! bought those at our county fair several years ago. but i know that same catalog i mentioned also has had very similar style totes, waterproof and a bit smaller than the ones i use--i think for around $15, about a third of the price of the ones i use. i think they are even on the web, but don't quote me on that. and my disclaimer, of course--i have no vested interest in the catalog company i mentioned.
there are things that have to be hand-carried though, out of habit. i never think to drag out the cart or totes for one or two small items, or something that is very light but bulky, or mail, or something fragile. still, i don't have my hands available to hold onto anything else when i do that.
kate
> "d'huit" <threecedars1@comcast2.net> wrote in message > news:zsCdnakZCpHFOGTbnZ2dnUVZ_v-hnZ2d@comcast.com... [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > > kate sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 27 Sep 2007 02:35 GMT Kelly, if your doors have handles instead of knobs, you can turn them easily with your elbow. I do that all the time. Gwen
> Hi Kate, > one of the things I have been thinking of for safety's sake in our new [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] >> >> kate Navy - 27 Sep 2007 13:30 GMT At the handicapped equipment store, where my Mom got her new walker, they had the handle sets that install *over* the existing knobs. They work quite well. Mom loves them. You might check it out. It seems to me I've seen some online, too.
 Signature Navy Take out the FISH to email me.
> Kelly, if your doors have handles instead of knobs, you can turn them > easily with your elbow. I do that all the time. [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] >>> >>> kate DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 26 Sep 2007 14:27 GMT I like Ann's suggestion of handrails by the doorway. Painting the door and doorjam may help you visually get over the fear - but the handrails would give me the safer feeling. Knowing that if I start to fall I can grab something. We're eventually going to install a ramp out front because I hate going down those stairs. I always "know" I'm going to fall.
DeeTee
>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 20:21 GMT I like Ann's suggestion of handrails by the doorway. Painting the door and doorjam may help you visually get over the fear - but the handrails would give me the safer feeling. Knowing that if I start to fall I can grab something. We're eventually going to install a ramp out front because I hate going down those stairs. I always "know" I'm going to fall.
DeeTee
i do, too, deetee and the idea has been in my thoughts. i'm trying to figure out the practicalities and functionality of placement, though those issues are probably the least problematical and will be resolved upon installation. and too, i really don't want something that looks institutional or odd, when approaching one my home's two front entries. inside my home, i don't mind being odd at all.<smile--double entendre intended> i want something that coordinates at least a little, even if it is only in the materials used.
i think i know how you feel about your steps. my kid sister owns/lives in a split-level, for the past 15 or so years. and from the moment they first moved into it, whenever i visited, i dreaded just getting up and into her living area. alex helped them install a stair handrail a couple of years ago. up until then, i felt like i was crawling up their stairs and wall-hugging going down them.
kate
>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate Kelly - 26 Sep 2007 15:29 GMT I agree with the idea of the handrails. That is the only thing I like about the rental house we are in right now. there are handrails everywhere and I am finding they are helping with that fear of falling as well. My balance has been off a bit since the neuro crap and I never really feel right. Have been working a lot to get it back - I have always managed to have excellent balance and have excellent posture. The posture is still there but the balance still has a bit to go.
I am trying some core pilates from a chair right now and it is helping a little. It was a tape from chapters. I desperately need that feeling of security so I can understand what you are saying.
I am impressed with the sound of your pt. Great to hear how far you have come without her though Kate. Doesn't surprise any of us though!
Thinking of you, Kelly
>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 21:19 GMT I agree with the idea of the handrails. That is the only thing I like about the rental house we are in right now. there are handrails everywhere and I am finding they are helping with that fear of falling as well. My balance has been off a bit since the neuro crap and I never really feel right. Have been working a lot to get it back - I have always managed to have excellent balance and have excellent posture. The posture is still there but the balance still has a bit to go.
I am trying some core pilates from a chair right now and it is helping a little. It was a tape from chapters. I desperately need that feeling of security so I can understand what you are saying.
I am impressed with the sound of your pt. Great to hear how far you have come without her though Kate. Doesn't surprise any of us though!
Thinking of you, Kelly
thanks, sweetie. i'm pleased that your current home is so well suited to your needs. that's a blessing! it sounds like a small piece of heaven, from the standpoint of comfort and functionality.
my own good posture and most of my balance kind of went kaboom with the head-on car wreck when i was 23 (as did my well-toned bod. the last of body pride, my tight abs that were so toned that i didn't even get any stretchmarks during pregnancy, went out with the lop-sided c-section at 28. i worked soooo hard trying to get that back, but to no avail. and we all know that a weak and/or flabby tummy area weakens one's back, which i'm sure is part of my spinal issues). i finally conceded that there were simply too many injuries back then that affected my body mechanics in a cascading way. i've always had a gym membership since my 20s, still do to this day, but never could recover completely no matter how much effort i put into it nor what trainer was helping me nor what program; and i'm just speaking of form, not function. kinda gave up on getting it all back, finally, when i hit my late 40s--just too stubborn to admit defeat all those years--and in a way, it was a relief for me to let the self-pressure go.
but my balance issue has worsened with this particular injury and maybe that can be improved/recovered a little with the help of this pt. i'm hopeful that my strength and stamina can be recovered and function can be improved. we'll seeeee . . .<smile>
kate
sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 26 Sep 2007 19:25 GMT Kate, there is a step down from the door to the room I'm usually in most of the time to the floor in the enclosed patio. Coming from the patio into the inside room is where I fell and broke my ankle. I am very careful every time I go either way; I look at my feet and hold on to the side of the door. Guess I'm a wuss too! I totally understand your fear. And my balance has been way bad since I got sick last October. And I couldn't stand on one leg even before then. Hope and pray that by the time you finish rehab, all of these problems will go completely away. Gwen
>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate d'huit - 26 Sep 2007 21:45 GMT Kate, there is a step down from the door to the room I'm usually in most of the time to the floor in the enclosed patio. Coming from the patio into the inside room is where I fell and broke my ankle. I am very careful every time I go either way; I look at my feet and hold on to the side of the door. Guess I'm a wuss too! I totally understand your fear. And my balance has been way bad since I got sick last October. And I couldn't stand on one leg even before then. Hope and pray that by the time you finish rehab, all of these problems will go completely away. Gwen
thanks, gwenie. you really did have such a rough year last year, sweetie. i'm so glad last year is behind you.
boy, you really do understand. i'm doing exactly the same thing you do with your patio doorway. i feel like i'm clutching the doorjamb for dear life, when i'm generally one who just confidently bops about without thinking about it, after i've decided on and made my adaptations a part of my functioning.
y'know . . .smell smoke? maybe i need to rethink things . . . and just decide on an adaption and make it part of my functioning (maybe i'll talk to my pt about it and see if she can determine a good body mechanics adaptation for going through that doorway, though a grip bar is still a good idea.). then, there is no problem. i'm thinking the fear is based in my own uncertainty about what to do to help myself function better, with more ease/confidence, going out that doorway. the rest of it is not really a problem--the bone break, which is almost healed now, and rehab--just transitory stuff.
kate
>i liked my physical therapist right away when i met her this afternoon. >she [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > kate Nann Bell - 26 Sep 2007 20:23 GMT First off, I don't think you are at all nuts for your fears of falling. After I broke my wrist and finally healed enough that he gave me permission to ride my bike again, I found I'd almost come to a complete stop at anything that might potentially be slick. That included grass and weed clippings on sidewalks and roadways of which there were no shortage then. Eventually worked out of it, but it was an issue - and my injury was much less than what you've been through in the past few years.
Now then, in addition to some handrail, how about putting one of those padded, rubber mats on the carport concrete? Maybe even a runner rather than a mat so you are covered for a greater distance. Then you both have something softer than concrete there AND you're stepping onto a surface with better grip than the concrete.
And maybe some of those interlocking plastic/vinyl/rubber/whatever it is tiles for the floor of your shower? There are big gaps in them for water to drain out, but even with soap on them they aren't slick. They use them on the floor of the steamroom and sauna of our gym in Florida and in the showers of lots of campgrounds I've stayed in lately. Some are less kind to feet than others though, so give thema good checking out. I know I've seen them in ads, but not sure where. I imagine a home DIY store would have that sort of thing.
And stick with your new, good PT person. We want this falling to stop once and for all, and maybe she'll really save you from some others pains as well!
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
Kelly - 26 Sep 2007 23:04 GMT This is such a good thread - thanks for starting it Kate. I love some of the ideas coming out of it and am always cheered by the fact people have the same fears as I do (sick I know.)
It doesn't help any that after accidents or near accidents or even with our disabilities that we tend to tense in certain situations. Doesn't help the pain or the injuries when we fall.
Anyhow keep with all these ideas - I am writing them down for myself.
Nann - on another note glad to hear you are okay. Was watching the newsgroup carefully. Drat that they didn't find the problem though after all that!
kelly
> First off, I don't think you are at all nuts for your fears of falling. > After I broke my wrist and finally healed enough that he gave me [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > and for all, and maybe she'll really save you from some others pains as > well! d'huit - 27 Sep 2007 00:09 GMT First off, I don't think you are at all nuts for your fears of falling. After I broke my wrist and finally healed enough that he gave me permission to ride my bike again, I found I'd almost come to a complete stop at anything that might potentially be slick. That included grass and weed clippings on sidewalks and roadways of which there were no shortage then. Eventually worked out of it, but it was an issue - and my injury was much less than what you've been through in the past few years.
***so, you've been there, too. w0w! i didn't realize that people i know experienced the same kind of residuals after injuries. duhhh . . . but, in my defense, i don't think anybody's ever mentioned it. btw, sweetie, please don't minimize your wrist injuries by comparing them to mine. yours were horrendous, as i recall your recount of your surgery and recovery experiences. i suspect yours was equally as bad. and besides, we can't sit and compare xrays through a cpu, can we..<smile>***
Now then, in addition to some handrail, how about putting one of those padded, rubber mats on the carport concrete? Maybe even a runner rather than a mat so you are covered for a greater distance. Then you both have something softer than concrete there AND you're stepping onto a surface with better grip than the concrete.
***i certainly wouldn't have thought of that! that's a great idea! my pt mentioned that i should get one inch thick rubber cushioned mats for my kitchen, to help my joints and spine when standing at the stove or sink. but, this break wasn't the result of a slip, nor impact (the wrist was impact). my ankle did a wobbly thing and gave out, the twisting motion as i fell broke it before i hit the ground. i hit the ground after the snapping sound. but the wobbly thing was the same in both instances, causing the fall. my knee used to do the same kind of thing, and making me fall, for as long as 15-20 years after my car wreck; then it suddenly stopped doing that. ortho said it was my menial meniscus, but he couldn't fix it. so, i guess it healed itself. i broke my leg/mallalus in '78, because of that knee giving out. ***
And maybe some of those interlocking plastic/vinyl/rubber/whatever it is tiles for the floor of your shower? There are big gaps in them for water to drain out, but even with soap on them they aren't slick. They use them on the floor of the steamroom and sauna of our gym in Florida and in the showers of lots of campgrounds I've stayed in lately. Some are less kind to feet than others though, so give thema good checking out. I know I've seen them in ads, but not sure where. I imagine a home DIY store would have that sort of thing.
***gee, my gyms's must have been cheap companies. even my current gym, which is brand new, doesn't have anything but ceramic tile in the showers and our sauna floors are wood. wish i knew what these mats look like. will have to check that out. my shower is a neo-angle though. so, i'd probably have to take a utility knife to the mats to make them fit. still, it's another great idea! (how do you clean them, y'know, to cut down on mold and bacterial factors?) i have to check that out, too.***
And stick with your new, good PT person. We want this falling to stop once and for all, and maybe she'll really save you from some others pains as well!
***yes, ma'am. will do. i do too! think i'll go shopping for mats today. thanks for your super ideas, nann!!!!
kate
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
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