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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / August 2007Arthritis & Emphysema
My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an enlarged heart. What I have been able to learn (guess) is that the heart condition may be caused by the emphysema -- not getting enough oxygen into the blood from breathing causes heart to pump harder. (This is my guess from reading online... anyone please correct me if wrong.) My question is... I wonder if the emphysema was caused by arthritis? There is no history of smoking or exposure to dust or chemicals - the usual cause of emphysema. Thanks. Bob There are rare conditions that are rheumatological (autoimmune) that can cause COPD, emphysema and similar breathing problems. Your sister might do well to get a referral to a major medical clinic rheumatological department to get screened for the possibility of an autoimmune vasculitis or similar autoimmune condition. Bruce > My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an enlarged > heart. What I have been able to learn (guess) is that the heart condition [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Bob >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an enlarged heart. << The heart is a muscle .. when a muscle overworks it becomes .. larger. As in people who throw bales all day .. one arm gets noticably larger than the other. When the blood gets thicker than usual the heart has to pump harder. This is accumulative over the years .. minor increase of blood viscosity has the heart working a wee bit harder than usual .. hence the muscle gets larger. This increased viscosity is caused by the increased red blood cell count / pseudopolycythemia .. >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: What I have been able to learn (guess) is that the heart condition may be caused by the emphysema << BOTH caused BY the increased red blood cell production / polycythemia / erythrocytosis / hemochromatosis. >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: -- not getting enough oxygen into the blood from breathing causes heart to pump harder. << Yes it is a vicious .. circle. Once the blood becomes too viscous the body begins to compensate in various ways to decrease this increase of red blood cells. >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: (This is my guess from reading online... anyone please correct me if wrong.) << You will notice their interventions seem to address .. red blood cell production. >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: My question is... I wonder if the emphysema was caused by arthritis? There is no history of smoking or exposure to dust or chemicals - the usual cause of emphysema.<< Smoking causes polycythemia .. 'altitude' causes polycythemia .. and altitude ALSO .. predicts .. arthritis. Sooo .. seeing that altitude causes / predicts arthritis .. and seeing altitude causes polycythemia / increased red blood cell production / erythrocytosis / hemochromatosis .. and seeing erythrocytosis is ALSO .. present IN .. emphysema .. and seeing the .. **recovery** afforded to people with COPD when .. bloodlet .. ? Logically one should look into the cheapest form and safest form OF .. control .. OF .. erythrocytosis .. THAT is what .. they .. do .. WHY wouldn't YOU .. do .. it .. ? Look into iron reduction therapy which generally includes a low iron restricted diet , iron binding substances and phlebotomy { iron reduction therapy ] Chest 1990 Nov;98(5):1073-7 Exercise performance of polycythemic chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients. Effect of phlebotomies. Chetty KG, Light RW, Stansbury DW, Milne N Department of Medicine, VA Medical Center, Long Beach, CA 90822. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of phlebotomy on the exercise tolerance and right and left ventricular ejection fraction of polycythemic patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Ten patients with COPD (mean FEV1 = 1.32 +/- 0.55 L) and polycythemia (mean Hct = 62 +/- 3 percent) were studied before and after their hematocrits had been reduced to approximately 50 percent. Post-phlebotomy the maximal oxygen consumption increased from 1.09 +/- 0.34 L/min to 1.26 +/- 0.43 L/min (p less than 0.05) and the maximum workload increased from 56.5 +/- 32.6 watts to 74.5 +/- 23.4 watts (p less than 0.05). The increase in the exercise tolerance appeared to be primarily due to an increased cardiac output at Emax. There was no relationship between the increases in the upright exercise capacity and changes in the supine ejection fractions of the right or left ventricular either at rest or during exercise. PMID: 2225946, UI: 91030710 _________________________________________________________________ Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood... Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you. Bob > >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: > My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >> On Aug 19, 11:48 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote:Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you. << Yes .. cites upon request .. If one looks at the human model of those above illnesses .. they all share the same .. symptoms .. increased red blood cell production .. Acute Mountain Sickness would be a good place to start .. <<snip>> the death rate was almost 55% vs. 0% <<snip>> Hypervolemia .. and .. erythrocytosis / polycythemia / increased red blood cell production / increased blood viscosity / thick blood .. are ONE and the .. same. "hypervolemia, polycythemia, high blood viscosity" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------?----- http://tinyurl.com/35dug <<snip>> This is the largest published study measuring blood volume and patient outcomes. Congestive heart failure is the number one cause for admission to hospitals for patients over 65 years of age and results in annual healthcare costs exceeding $38 billion. The study followed severely ill congestive heart failure patients for a median follow up of 719 days. During the first year, the major finding was a 39% death rate in patients that were hypervolemic (excess blood volume) vs. 0% death rate for those who were normovolemic/hypovolemic (normal blood volume/ mildly reduced blood volume). For those hypervolemic patients that were followed for a median duration of 719 days, the death rate was almost 55% vs. 0% for those patients who were normovolemic to slightly hypovolemic. <<snip>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- Definitions of hypervolemia on the Web: a blood disorder consisting of an increase in the volume of circulating blood wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn ------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/98/1/384 "hypervolemia, polycythemia, high blood viscosity" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The only treatment for thick blood is to be bled." ? the production of red blood cells, which carry oxygen through the body, increase as the body acclimates to high altitude, allowing more oxygen to be "grabbed" from every breath. The body also responds to the lower oxygen levels by putting more red blood cells into circulation. Up to a point, this is a good thing. However, if it goes too far, the blood becomes thick and prone to clotting. Clots which get dislodged float around and can cause strokes, heart attacks, and pulmonary embolisms. The only treatment for thick blood is to be bled. http://www.k2news.com/lesson21.htm Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Bob > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood... Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you. Bob hi bob, sigh . . . you'd be better off listening to what bruce had to offer and disregarding whatever tom says to you. tom has a chronic longterm history of being reported, all over the web, as an incorrigible crackpot who bombards newsgroups and support groups with his obsession about iron being the cause of all the world's ills. believing what tom says at face value, and acting upon it, can be medically dangerous. tom is not a doctor and is no authority of merit. tom really is a mindless, egotistical crackpot who doesn't care about the damage he might cause in the health of unwary others. just clueing you in, guy. kate > >> On Aug 18, 12:24 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: > My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Kate is so right on this one. Joan >hi bob, > [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] >> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >> http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 19, 7:06 pm, Joan Carter <spamf...@sentex.ca> wrote: Kate is so right on this one. << Meet .. Joan .. an ex 'Canadian' .. nurse .. Need I .. say .. more .. ? She has been shown up by ME .. numerous times .. and THAT according to her OWN words .. doesn't bode too well .. because .. ? .. I have no .. merit .. If I have no merit .. AND ... I have kicked HER arse more than once IN .. her .. own .. profession .. MEANS .. ? .. she ain't worth .. shite .. based ON her OWN .. criteria .. **merit** .. Merit .. something SHE .. doesn't .. have .. Cites available upon .. request. Bettered by a .. loon .. She should actually feel pretty .. useless. According to her OWN .. criteria .. merit .. She has actually told people NOT to use .. blood increasing substances to treat open festering sores .. WHEN .. in FACT .. that is PRECISELY .. the treatment to .. use. She is more than .. useless .. she could actually cause .. increased suffering .. Something she ACCUSES .. me .. of .. but is PROVEN in her .. case. Ask her to prove it in .. mine .. She can't and therefore it makes her a .. ? .. liar .. and a .. loser .. And married to a fatstupidlyingbaldguy .. Can't get much .. worse .. Oh yeah . I .. forgot .. She is .. short .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Joan > [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical > terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood... << Actually .. if you look at the post .. he was talking to .. ME. He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** .. And next time YOU .. ever .. mention .. my .. webpage .. you will NOT walk away .. unscathed .. you **understand** .. Now take your .. admitted BIASED .. athiest .. **opinion** and stick it where the sun .. don't shine .. Ya .. dig .. And the NEXT time you come onto a post addressed to ME .. without a medical study to back you .. up .. be prepared for some more .. instant .. justice .. ya .. cow .. Now .. stay the FK .. away from .. ME .. Dig .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged > heart? Just trying to follow you. [quoted text clipped - 138 lines] > > - Show quoted text - On Aug 19, 6:32 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: > "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote in > messagenews:Bf0yi.494$Uf7.275@trnddc06... > Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical > terminolgies, so sorry if I misunderstood... << Actually .. if you look at the post .. he was talking to .. ME. He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** .. And next time YOU .. ever .. mention .. my .. webpage .. you will NOT walk away .. unscathed .. you **understand** .. Now take your .. admitted BIASED .. athiest .. **opinion** and stick it where the sun .. don't shine .. Ya .. dig .. And the NEXT time you come onto a post addressed to ME .. without a medical study to back you .. up .. be prepared for some more .. instant .. justice .. ya .. cow .. Now .. stay the FK .. away from .. ME .. Dig .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? (if you can, try reading luke 9:13-17.) did he want to poison the 5000 people who came to hear him preach???? hmmmm . . . i don't think sooooo. oh, and . . . yada, yada, yada, in response to the tantrum you just had. you are soooooo scary! NOT! now, go have a time-out! you need one! (i'm thinking, maybe 20 or 30 years of time-out should do it. i'll gladly set my egg timer for you and let you know when it rings off.) kate (it all just goes to show you how rust for brains thinks, or doesn't think, or thinks he's thinking, or is actually mindless.) Kate wrote: > y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying > jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but > veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish > and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? (if > you can, try reading luke 9:13-17.) did he want to poison the 5000 people > who came to hear him preach???? hmmmm . . . i don't think sooooo. Numbnutz can't even explain why Jesus partook of the Pascal Lamb at the Last Supper. Kate wrote: > y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying > jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but > veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish > and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? (if > you can, try reading luke 9:13-17.) did he want to poison the 5000 people > who came to hear him preach???? hmmmm . . . i don't think sooooo. Numbnutz can't even explain why Jesus partook of the Pascal Lamb at the Last Supper. i'd bet he can't explain that. btw, chief, please don't tell rustybutt that my egg timer was deliberately broken for his time-out.<g> kate >>y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's > saying jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but >>veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish >>and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? Maybe he was a Seattle vegetarian? :-)))))) Carole >>y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's > saying jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything > but >>veggies was not good for the body/temple, then why did he bless the 2 fish >>and 5 loaves and turn them into enough fish and bread to feed 5000? Maybe he was a Seattle vegetarian? :-)))))) Carole ROTFL! ohhhh, that was good, carole!<still LOL> but thinking about that . . . i don't recall coffee being mentioned, to wash it all down.<g> kate >>>y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > kate Yea, maybe we should go back in time and open a Starbucks up near the Sea of Galilee :-))))) Actually I have been to the place where historically the loaves and fishes took place. It's a lovely area. A nice little expresso stand would look cool there :-)))) d'huit wrote: >>>y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > kate Yea, maybe we should go back in time and open a Starbucks up near the Sea of Galilee :-))))) Actually I have been to the place where historically the loaves and fishes took place. It's a lovely area. A nice little expresso stand would look cool there :-)))) <chuckling> let's do that! now, you have me wondering . . . does starbucks have kosher? i'm thinking . . . it would have to be kosher coffee, wouldn't it? a friend of mine lived near there for a summer, two years ago. she said she used to buy kosher stamps for postcards. didn't quite make sense to me, because our stamps are self-adhesive. but, i suppose that doesn't mean their stamps are, yet. kate > <chuckling> let's do that! now, you have me wondering . . . does > starbucks have kosher? i'm thinking . . . it would have to be kosher > coffee, wouldn't it? Yes, but I know I drank a lot of it on El Al airlines so there must be kosher coffee :) > a friend of mine lived near there for a summer, two years ago. she said she > used to buy kosher stamps for postcards. didn't quite make sense to me, > because our stamps are self-adhesive. but, i suppose that doesn't mean > their stamps are, yet. I have to tell you that I spent two weeks in Israel both in 1985 and 1988. I never heard of kosher stamps. I just went to the post office and got stamps. But maybe they are all kosher :) I do have to tell you that the best ice cream in the world is made in Israel. What I'd give for a pint of that :) And shopping on Ben Yehuda Street..ah, those were the days :) Carole d'huit wrote: > <chuckling> let's do that! now, you have me wondering . . . does > starbucks have kosher? i'm thinking . . . it would have to be kosher > coffee, wouldn't it? Yes, but I know I drank a lot of it on El Al airlines so there must be kosher coffee :) > a friend of mine lived near there for a summer, two years ago. she said > she > used to buy kosher stamps for postcards. didn't quite make sense to me, > because our stamps are self-adhesive. but, i suppose that doesn't mean > their stamps are, yet. I have to tell you that I spent two weeks in Israel both in 1985 and 1988. I never heard of kosher stamps. I just went to the post office and got stamps. But maybe they are all kosher :) I do have to tell you that the best ice cream in the world is made in Israel. What I'd give for a pint of that :) And shopping on Ben Yehuda Street..ah, those were the days :) MMmmmmmmm . . . i'd love to try that ice cream! ben yehuda st. sounds like fun! kate Carole > Yea, maybe we should go back in time and open a Starbucks up near the Sea > of Galilee :-))))) Actually I have been to the place where historically > the loaves and fishes took place. It's a lovely area. A nice little > expresso stand would look cool there :-)))) The problem with that is finding fresh water for the coffee. Harv > Yea, maybe we should go back in time and open a Starbucks up near the Sea > of Galilee :-))))) Actually I have been to the place where historically > the loaves and fishes took place. It's a lovely area. A nice little > expresso stand would look cool there :-)))) The problem with that is finding fresh water for the coffee. nahhhhhhh . . . we'll use bottled water, harv!<g> kate Harv Numbnuts wrote: > And the NEXT time you come onto a post addressed to ME .. without a > medical study to back you .. up .. Numbnutz still hasn't figured out that the internet is one, big meeting ground and no one, including numbnutz, has exclusive rights to anything. He's just to stupid to start his own blog and lock out anyone he doesn't like. > be prepared for some more .. instant .. justice .. ya .. cow .. And you're the BULL with a pile of you-know-what. > Dig .. Only your grave, and soon I hope. ... numbnutz tommy's destroyed brain is no match for reasoning humans. On Aug 20, 12:08 am, "california_chief" <Fire_Chief@Jamacha_Junction_FD.ca.us> wrote: Only your grave, and soon I hope. << You'd better hope we never .. meet .. cowboy .. Being you're a .. gimp .. and all .. it will not fare too .. well .. Let me use a sentence my son used on someone .. just like .. you .. "you talk to may old man like that again .. and I'm going to stomp your fkg .. head" .. Kinda made me .. proud .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > ... numbnutz tommy's destroyed brain is no match for reasoning humans. >"you talk to may old man like that again .. and I'm going to stomp >your fkg .. head" .. > >Kinda made me .. proud .. Yes, it would, wouldn't it sweetcheeks? Been down to visit your friends at the police station lately? You really seem to have risen from the wrong side of the bed today. Joan >> On Aug 19, 10:06 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: y'know, rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but.. blah .. blah . blah .. blah .. blah . ..... blah << Keep your religious shite .. IN .. the religious groups .. ya freakin' .. nutbar .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >> On Aug 19, 10:06 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: y'know, >> rustybutt, you keep saying, "jesus was a vegetarian!" that's saying jesus was a hypocrite. cuz if jesus believed that eating anything but.. blah .. blah . blah .. blah .. blah . ..... blah << Keep your religious shite .. IN .. the religious groups .. ya freakin' .. nutbar .. Who loves ya. Tom geesh, rustybutt, you can't even make up your mind, probably because you are mindless. so, which is it?--am i an "athiest" [sic--atheist] or religious? and, ummmm . . . you don't think "jesus was a vegetarian!" is your religious shite, to be kept IN religious groups? oh, right . . . i forgot . . . you don't think! kate (a "freakin' .. nutbar .." label proudly worn, considering the difficulty mindless people have with adequate language skills and thought processes.) Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or any location children may be at? Just curious... > Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or > any location children may be at? Wonder how often he has to check in with his probation officer? Does Canada have a registry like the US does? > Just curious... We all are. <g> ... numbnuts tommy gets change back when he posts his two cents worth. >>On Aug 20, 7:40 am, "california_chief" <Fire_Chief@Jamacha_Junction_FD.ca.us> wrote: We all are. << What would you like to .. know .. chief .. Did I commit any .. crimes .. ? What kind of .. crimes .. chief .. I have a record of .. violence .. Is that a .. surprise .. ? I have more records .. chief .. What do you think is .. pertinent .. I think the .. violence .. is .. pertinent .. IN .. this .. thread .. Any .. other .. crimes .. YOU .. think are .. pertinent .. ? Name .. them .. Then we can .. speak .. about .. them .. Ok .. chief .. ? Good .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or any location children may be at? << No .. it is not .. true .. Just like it isn't .. true .. that I'm not allowed to .. visit .. YOU .. Up close and personal .. sort of hands on type of stuff .. Do you know what hands on .. means .. ? It is a type of .. teaching .. Oh .. yeah .. that is right .. somebody showed you that type of teaching .. and you seemed to be the .. worse for .. wear .. If I remember .. correctly .. You don't ..learn BY.. that type of teaching very well .. obviously. You are what those teachers call .. stupid. They don't like to use that word much .. because most people .. learn .. BY that .. usually effective .. method .. But it seems you .. don't .. Does it .. Evidence based .. Someone kicks the sht right out of you to the point you whine like some btch on the internet .. about it .. and THEN .. you hint at .. what .. pedophilia .. ? .. child beatings .. what .. ? Come .. out .. and .. say .. it .. you fkg .. little .. creep .. So .. everyone .. can SEE exactly WHY someone beat you to a .. pulp .. Maybe then OTHERS will tell you to keep your whining little .. "oh I got beat up bad being a hero .. " .. sht .. to yourself .. Because .. buddy .. by what I've seen of .. you .. you got EXACTLY what you so .. **richly** .. deserved / deserve. Heh .. heh .. And by the looks of it .. it is going to happen again .. by someone .. somewhere .. because .. ? .. you haven't .. learned .. nothing .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Hey Tommah, is it true that you're not allowed to go near children or > any location children may be at? << [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Just like it isn't .. true .. that I'm not allowed to .. visit .. > YOU .. That'd be great! I'd actually REALLY appreciate getting to meet you. When can I expect a visit? I'm hoping soon. > Up close and personal .. sort of hands on type of stuff .. > > Do you know what hands on .. means .. ? Yeah, it's why you can't go near kids anymore Yeah, it's why you can't go near kids anymore << Er .. I asked you what you are .. saying .. Spell ... it .. out .. Are you hinting at .. something .. ? You are some sort of .. retard .. ? What .. ? Retarded .. as well as .. melting .. away .. slowly .. How's the iron chelation .. going .. Don't take out too much iron .. you might become .. anemic .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Yeah, it's why you can't go near kids anymore << > > Er .. I asked you what you are .. saying .. And I asked you when you were coming to visit! I'll pick you up right at the airport so you won't have to drive after the long trip. > How's the iron chelation .. going .. Don't need it anymore. I actually participated in real research and beyond that, using myself as a ginuea pig, developed a treatment regimen that is working remarkably well for this rare condition. In case you're wondering, none of that involved cutting and pasting things I didn't understand but found online :) >> On Aug 20, 9:54 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote: using myself as a ginuea pig, developed a treatment regimen that is working remarkably well for this rare condition. In case you're wondering, none of that involved cutting and pasting things I didn't understand but found online :) << Is that .. right .. Well .. buddy .. that ..method .. is the PREFERRED .. method .. used by a .. variety of .. researchers .. TO .. develope .. and commence .. studies .. Your method of .. drinking sht found under the .. sink .. is actually pretty .. stupid .. IMHO .. But .. hey .. it is called evidence based .. medicine .. my preferred method .. so .. go for it .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >> On Aug 20, 9:54 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote: using >> myself as a ginuea pig, developed a treatment regimen that is working remarkably well for this rare condition. In case you're wondering, none of that involved cutting and pasting things I didn't understand but found online :) << Is that .. right .. "Well .. buddy .. that ..method .. is the PREFERRED .. method .. used by a .. variety of .. researchers .. TO .. develope .. and commence .. studies ." LOL! ignorance is bliss. have you ever even heard of "scientific methodology"? it begins with an hypothesis--an original idea or question. oh, right . . . i forgot . . . you're mindless. so, you can't have any original ideas or questions! kate Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk <ironjustice@aol.com> wrote in message news:1187629737.948720.182140@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com... >> On Aug 20, 9:54 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote: using >> myself as a ginuea pig, developed a treatment regimen that is working remarkably well for this rare condition. In case you're wondering, none of that involved cutting and pasting things I didn't understand but found online :) << Is that .. right .. "Well .. buddy .. that ..method .. is the PREFERRED .. method .. used by a .. variety of .. researchers .. TO .. develope .. and commence .. studies ." LOL! ignorance is bliss. have you ever even heard of "scientific methodology"? it begins with an hypothesis--[sic--about] an original idea or question. oh, right . . . i forgot . . . you're mindless. so, you can't have any original ideas or questions! kate Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 20, 11:00 am, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: LOL! ignorance is bliss. have you ever even heard of "scientific methodology"? << The work was already .. done .. BY .. Linus / oxidation .. the CAUSE of the oxidation was never .. found / or .. suspected .. Once the .. cause .. was found / iron / oxidation / rust .. then the running BACKWARDS WITH IT .. takes really very little .. time .. Logically and with .. reason .. But .. again .. there is no accounting for .. brain dead stupidity .. >> it begins with an hypothesis--an original idea or question. oh, right . . . i forgot . . . you're mindless. so, you can't have any original ideas or questions! << Man is a herbivore .. PROVEN .. by the buildup of iron in the body. Or maybe .. "meat eating PREDICTS diabetes". http://tinyurl.com/2ol9p5 Pick one of those .. The second one only took a few months to .. prove .. The first one seems to be taking a bit longer .. Too many brain dead morons .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 20, 11:00 am, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: LOL! ignorance is bliss. have you ever even heard of "scientific methodology"? << The work was already .. done .. BY .. Linus / oxidation .. the CAUSE of the oxidation was never .. found / or .. suspected .. Once the .. cause .. was found / iron / oxidation / rust .. then the running BACKWARDS WITH IT .. takes really very little .. time .. Logically and with .. reason .. ***what does logic and reason have to do with you claiming you use the PREFERRED method used by reasearchers, when all you do is cut and paste? if ALL researchers used your supposed PREFERRED method, then no NEW research would ever be accomplished, because everybody would be cutting and pasting from what is OLD research. all research would then be suspect, because there would no longer be any research that hadn't been exterpolated nor interpolated. But .. again .. there is no accounting for .. brain dead stupidity .. *** right! yours! Man is a herbivore .. PROVEN .. by the buildup of iron in the body. ***man is an omnivore, PROVEN by the variety of teeth our species has--molars to grind grains and masticate, and canines and incisors to tear and cut flesh. and it is interesting and no coincidence that the canines and incisors are featured more prominently, right in front, where they are easily seen and are more readily available to do their work. if we were meant to be solely herbivores, our molars would be where our canines and incisors are. Too many brain dead morons .. ***at least i can agree with one of your statements! hello, BDM! kate Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>> On Aug 20, 9:54 am, spodosaurus <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote: using myself as a ginuea pig, developed a treatment regimen > that is working remarkably well for this rare condition. In case [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well .. buddy .. that ..method .. is the PREFERRED .. method .. used > by a .. variety of .. researchers Copy and paste? Errr...wrong. I've been involved in empirical research during my first degree (see Tommah, some of us actually went on past the tenth grade) and will be doing it once again with my second and third university degrees. So, Tommah, stop dodging the question: when are you coming for a visit? Or are you going to crawl away and hide now :) Cheers, Ari  Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Numbnutz tommy wrote: > Up close and personal .. sort of hands on type of stuff .. > > Do you know what hands on .. means .. ? It means you masturbate while fantasizing about sheep. ... Now is an excellent time for numbnutz to become a missing person. > Numbnutz tommy wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It means you masturbate while fantasizing about sheep. No, he's not from New Zealand (pronounced Nuh Zuhlund) :) Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ > you haven't .. learned .. nothing .. Your English teacher would say that about you, Tommy. Numbnutz tommy wrote: >> you haven't .. learned .. nothing .. And Joan Carter replied: > Your English teacher would say that about you, Tommy. That's why he's still being held back in kindergarten. ... Too bad numnutz tommy's mother didn't have cypriphobia. >> On Aug 19, 11:48 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you. << The venesection / phlebotomy in those with COPD / emphysema .. leads to 50% **increased** walking distance and 50% **increased** exercise tolerance. It also leads to decreased oxygen usage determined by those in the warehouse who noticed the patients were no longer ordering oxygen. The doctors and nurses didn't notice .. surprise .. surprise .. the warehousemen .. did.. This is a low iron diet designed to lower iron levels in hepatitis patients. <<snip>> The dietary allowance for Fe, as recommended by the Indian Council of Medical Research is about 28 mg/d for males and about 30 mg/d for females (Gopalan et al. 1989). In our specially formulated diet, we decreased the Fe content of the diet to about 6?7 mg/d, without compromising the energy and protein content of the diet. This diet was primarily rice-based with casein as the main protein source. It contained the daily allowances for all food groups except for pulses and meat. <<snip>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- Chest 1990 Nov;98(5):1073-7 Exercise performance of polycythemic chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients. Effect of phlebotomies. Chetty KG, Light RW, Stansbury DW, Milne N Department of Medicine, VA Medical Center, Long Beach, CA 90822. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of phlebotomy on the exercise tolerance and right and left ventricular ejection fraction of polycythemic patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Ten patients with COPD (mean FEV1 = 1.32 +/- 0.55 L) and polycythemia (mean Hct = 62 +/- 3 percent) were studied before and after their hematocrits had been reduced to approximately 50 percent. Post-phlebotomy the maximal oxygen consumption increased from 1.09 +/- 0.34 L/min to 1.26 +/- 0.43 L/min (p less than 0.05) and the maximum workload increased from 56.5 +/- 32.6 watts to 74.5 +/- 23.4 watts (p less than 0.05). The increase in the exercise tolerance appeared to be primarily due to an increased cardiac output at Emax. There was no relationship between the increases in the upright exercise capacity and changes in the supine ejection fractions of the right or left ventricular either at rest or during exercise. PMID: 2225946, UI: 91030710 _________________________________________________________________ Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Bob > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Bob wrote: > Many thanks! I understood the first part. I'm not up on the medical terminolgies, Numbnutz tommy has absolutely no understanding of medicine or terminologies. He posts totally unrelated articles from this website and that journal. > Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis, emphysema and enlarged heart? Numbnuts doesn't know what he saying. He just rants and raves about iron being the ONLY cause of every disease known to medical science. That's why you have a problem following him. <g> ... Checking reality of numnuts tom's message ... ... ... test failed. >> On Aug 19, 11:48 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: Are you saying that viscous blood causes arthritis << <<snip>> A high iron content has been noted in synovial membraines in RA <<snip>> Annals of the Rheumatic Diseases 2002;61:741-744 Iron deposits may damage joint tissue in RA Our understanding of the role of iron in rheumatoid arthritis (RA) has improved with a recent study showing where iron accumulates in the synovial membranes of affected joints. The researchers speculate how iron might build up to toxic amounts. Ferritin, both light and heavy subunits , was found in the lining layer and subintimal zone of the synovium and in synovial macrophages and fibroblasts. Transferrin receptor appeared only in the lining layer . Non-specific resistance associated macrophage proteins (Nramp) were also found . These are proteins that span membranes and transport divalent cations. Nramp 2 occurred in the macrophages and fibroblasts. Nramp 1 was present in macrophages and neutrophils, in the synovial lining layer and the subintimal zone, and in infiltrating inflammatory cells, but not in fibroblasts. The study used synovial membranes from arthroplasties of 20 patients with RA. Thin sections were stained cytochemically for ferritin, transferrin receptor , and Nramp 1 with monoclonal or polyclonal antibodies. Macrophages and fibroblasts were isolated from collaginase digests of synovial membranes. Neutrophils were isolated from synovial fluid aspirated routinely from the joints . These cell types were stained for ferritin and transferrin receptor immunocytochemically. Nramp 1 and Nramp 2 were identified by reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction. A high iron content has been noted in synovial membraines in RA , but the uptake and storage of iron and its potential relation to imflammation of the joints has been unknown until now. --------------------------------------------------- >> On Aug 19, 11:48 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: Are you saying that viscous blood causes emphysema << <<snip>> In the erythrocytosis of hypoxemic lung disease and its associated hypoxemia, pulmonary vasoconstriction enhances susceptibility to hyperviscosity effects in particular. <<snip>> : Mt Sinai J Med 2001 May;68(3):182-91 Hemorheology in the erythrocytoses. Pearson TC. Department of Haematological Medicine, The Guy's, King's and St. Thomas' School of Medicine (University of London), St. Thomas' Hospital, Lambeth Palace Road, London SE1 7EH United Kingdom. n vitro, rheological studies establish that whole blood viscosity and yield stress are high in patients with an erythrocytosis. However, a number of factors ensure that these patients, under physiological conditions, do not show the clinical features observed in other hyperviscosity states. These include red cell axial migration in flowing blood and "plug flow" in the largest vessels. In addition, a small increase in vessel diameter leads to large increases in blood flow, and generally high blood flows produce the lowest blood viscosity values. The increased hemoglobin levels and the increase in oxygen-carrying capacity at high hematocrit values compensate for the tissue hypoxia. In the "non-hypoxemic" erythrocytoses (polycythemia vera, idiopathic and apparent erythrocytosis), there is an increased incidence of vascular occlusion in untreated patients. The reasons for this include reduced peripheral blood flow, increased platelet-vessel wall interactions, and the demonstrated in vitro hyperviscosity which comes into play with abnormally low flow, seen in vivo under pathological conditions. In the erythrocytosis of hypoxemic lung disease and its associated hypoxemia, pulmonary vasoconstriction enhances susceptibility to hyperviscosity effects in particular. Moreover, the vasoconstriction caused by the hypoxemia prevents the normal adaptive changes of increased vessel diameter. Microcytic hypochromic red cell changes of iron deficiency do not cause a higher viscosity value at any given hematocrit value compared with normal red cells. However, in hypoxemic states oxygen-carrying capacity should be maximized, since the hemoglobin value is disproportionately lower at any given hematocrit in the presence of microcytic hypochromic cells compared with normal red cells. Publication Types: Review Review Literature PMID: 11373690 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] >> On Aug 19, 11:48 am, "Mail Man Bob" <n...@where.com> wrote: Are you saying that viscous blood causes enlarged heart? Just trying to follow you.<< http://tinyurl.com/3b9t4u <<snip>> Right ventricular enlargement <<snip>> Current concept of chronic mountain sickness: pulmonary hypertension- related high-altitude heart disease RI-LI GE, MD, PhD; GAOWA HELUN, BS >From the Qinghai High Altitude Medical Science Institute, Qinghai, China. Dr Ge is now at the Institute for Exercise and Environmental Medicine, Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas, Dallas, TX. High-altitude heart disease, a form of chronic mountain sickness, has been well established in both Tibet and Qinghai provinces of China, although little is known regarding this syndrome in other countries, particularly in the West. This review presents a general overview of high-altitude heart disease in China and briefly summarizes the existing data with regard to the prevalence, clinical features, and pathophysiology of the illness. The definition of high-altitude heart disease is right ventricular enlargement that develops primarily (by high-altitude exposure) to pulmonary hypertension without excessive polycythemia. The prevalence is higher in children than adults and in men than women, but is lower in both sexes of Tibetan high-altitude residents compared with acclimatized newcomers, such as Han Chinese. Clinical symptoms consist of headache, dyspnea, cough, irritability, and sleeplessness. Physical findings include a marked cyanosis, rapid heart and respiratory rates, edema of the face, liver enlargement, and rales. Most patients have complete recovery on descent to a lower altitude, but symptoms recur with a return to high altitude. Right ventricular enlargement, pulmonary hypertension, and remodeling of pulmonary arterioles are hallmarks of high-altitude heart disease. It is hoped that this information will assist in understanding this type of chronic mountain sickness, facilitate international exchange of data, and stimulate further research into this poorly understood condition. Key Words: altitude, hypoxemia, heart failure, pulmonary hypertension, vascular remodeling Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Bob > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Guys, I appreciate info from all sides and will listen to everyone and make up my own mind. I don't mean to offend any of you, but if you act like children, I'll assume that you have nothing of substance to add. Bob Guys, I appreciate info from all sides and will listen to everyone and make up my own mind. I don't mean to offend any of you, but if you act like children, I'll assume that you have nothing of substance to add. Bob hey guy, nothing against you. this group has been plagued by tom's ill-advised advice and his unwanted/unasked for bombardments of his obsession for all the years that i've been here and probably much longer than that. (i've been here about 6 or 7 years now.) many of us have asked him to stop cluttering our threads and monitors with his obsessive garbage. but he really is obsessed and can't seem to stop himself. he has no boundaries, nor does he respect boundaries, so that is reciprocated. i hope you'll forgive us for not being able to resist taking him down a peg or two. we've been trying to get him off our newsgroup for years. many of us feel it is imparative to warn newcomers about him, because some of what he says really is dangerous for some of the medical conditions brought to our group by newcomers. that warning to newcomers, no matter who gives it nor in what manner, inevitably leads to his throwing at least one of his tantrums and his spewing his many threats. i'd like to apologize to you, for you having to experience this situation. kate >> On Aug 20, 5:00 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: plagued by tom's ill-advised advice and his unwanted/unasked for bombardments << Actually .. if you see the thread .. he asked for some .. medical information .. YOU .. provided .. nothing / nadda / dck .. because .. ? .. you are unable. JUST like I pointed .. out .. IE: "He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** .. " Useless .. >> On Aug 20, 5:00 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:we've been trying to get him off our newsgroup for years. << Who are you to try to get .. me .. off a newsgroup .. ? You some sort of fkg .. god .. ? alt.spirituality.circle .. I think you believe you .. are .. the way you .. talk. http://tinyurl.com/2ftweq YOUR .. 'claim to fame' is .. personal .. abuse .. because .. ? .. you cannot handle .. science .. So since the thread HAS .. 'something' .. to DO .. with .. **science** .. what exactly are you doing on it .. again .. ? Personal .. abuse .. ? .. surprise .. surprise .. now .. go hug a freakin' .. tree .. nutbar. Here .. again .. my tired old post to .. you .. <<snip>> I tell you what .. YOU .. say something about the .. article .. You DON'T say .. fkall .. about ME .. Maybe you and testosterone depleted .. 'chief' .. figure you can simply forgo all rules of .. etiquette .. and attempt to .. PERSONALLY .. attack someone .. but .. that IS .. against the .. **rules** .. therefore EXPECT .. repercussions .. Ya .. fkg .. dig ..? <<snip>> "It is better to wear out than to rust out;" don't expose your system to more iron than it needs. <<snip>> http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references& therow=635510 Learn your sht .. or .. fo .. and in the MEANTIME .. S-T-F-U .. Ya stupid fat .. cow .. I think I called you that before .. ? Didn't I .. ? I didn't .. ? Let me repeat it then .. Ya stupid fat .. cow .. <<snip>> Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk LOL! if nothing else, rusty, at least you know where the ".." key is. kate >> On Aug 20, 5:00 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote: plagued >> by tom's ill-advised advice and his unwanted/unasked for bombardments << Actually .. if you see the thread .. he asked for some .. medical information .. YOU .. provided .. nothing / nadda / dck .. because .. ? .. you are unable. JUST like I pointed .. out .. IE: "He wasn't talking to some old cow who has nothing .. nothing .. nothing .. good or useful to .. say .. about .. **anything** .. " Useless .. >> On Aug 20, 5:00 pm, "d'huit" <threeceda...@comcast2.net> wrote:we've been >> trying to get him off our newsgroup for years. << Who are you to try to get .. me .. off a newsgroup .. ? You some sort of fkg .. god .. ? alt.spirituality.circle .. I think you believe you .. are .. the way you .. talk. http://tinyurl.com/2ftweq YOUR .. 'claim to fame' is .. personal .. abuse .. because .. ? .. you cannot handle .. science .. So since the thread HAS .. 'something' .. to DO .. with .. **science** .. what exactly are you doing on it .. again .. ? Personal .. abuse .. ? .. surprise .. surprise .. now .. go hug a freakin' .. tree .. nutbar. Here .. again .. my tired old post to .. you .. <<snip>> I tell you what .. YOU .. say something about the .. article .. You DON'T say .. fkall .. about ME .. Maybe you and testosterone depleted .. 'chief' .. figure you can simply forgo all rules of .. etiquette .. and attempt to .. PERSONALLY .. attack someone .. but .. that IS .. against the .. **rules** .. therefore EXPECT .. repercussions .. Ya .. fkg .. dig ..? <<snip>> "It is better to wear out than to rust out;" don't expose your system to more iron than it needs. <<snip>> http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references& therow=635510 Learn your sht .. or .. fo .. and in the MEANTIME .. S-T-F-U .. Ya stupid fat .. cow .. I think I called you that before .. ? Didn't I .. ? I didn't .. ? Let me repeat it then .. Ya stupid fat .. cow .. <<snip>> Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Oh, it doesn't bother me. Thanks for the kind words. Now you all behave or no TV tonight! =O) > Guys, I appreciate info from all sides and will listen to everyone and make > up my own mind. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > kate >Oh, it doesn't bother me. Thanks for the kind words. > >Now you all behave or no TV tonight! =O) Oh, no, not the "no TV punishment". Is it okay if I watch the news? That's educational. On the other hand, now that I think about it, perhaps it isn't. :-) I gather your sister has been diagnosed with arthritis since you mentioned it on the arthritis group. Does she have a rheumatologist and does he/she have an opinion about her enlarged ventricle? Joan > >Oh, it doesn't bother me. Thanks for the kind words. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > news? That's educational. On the other hand, now that I think > about it, perhaps it isn't. :-) Just leave it off and pick up the last issue of Weekly World News. > I gather your sister has been diagnosed with arthritis since you > mentioned it on the arthritis group. Does she have a > rheumatologist and does he/she have an opinion about her enlarged > ventricle? > > Joan Yes, she has had arthritis for at least 20 years. She has been very private about the situation, so I don't know if she has more than a GP. Will start the 20 questions next time I talk with her. The emphysema and enlarged heart issue was only learned when she was required to have an exam prior to an operation - which was smooth and successful, by the way. She has avoided exams forever, preferring to be in the dark rather than hearing bad news.... I'm sure you might know folks like this... OK -- TV privilege restored! =O) Bob >Yes, she has had arthritis for at least 20 years. She has been very private about the situation, so I don't know if she has more than a GP. Will start the 20 questions next time I talk with her. The emphysema and enlarged heart issue was only learned when she was required to have an exam prior to an operation - which was smooth and successful, by the way. She has avoided exams forever, preferring to be in the dark rather than hearing bad news.... I'm sure you might know folks like this... Some people can be like ostriches, if they don't see it they are happy with their head in the sand. Believe me there are times when I would rather not know so much. You know your sister so I will not attempt to tell you what twenty questions to ask, or if you should only ask ten. But a rheumatologist is the best person to treat arthritis. Many GPs just prescribe pain meds. There are drugs that help delay damage. Lots of people here take them. >OK -- TV privilege restored! =O) There is not much on except war news and politician promises which are worth about, oh, less than one cent. Now there is a hurricane. I think I'll stick with my mystery novels. Good luck with your sister. Joan >Bob > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:04:35 GMT, "Mail Man Bob" <no@where.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > news? That's educational. On the other hand, now that I think > about it, perhaps it isn't. :-) Just leave it off and pick up the last issue of Weekly World News. > I gather your sister has been diagnosed with arthritis since you > mentioned it on the arthritis group. Does she have a > rheumatologist and does he/she have an opinion about her enlarged > ventricle? > > Joan Yes, she has had arthritis for at least 20 years. She has been very private about the situation, so I don't know if she has more than a GP. Will start the 20 questions next time I talk with her. The emphysema and enlarged heart issue was only learned when she was required to have an exam prior to an operation - which was smooth and successful, by the way. She has avoided exams forever, preferring to be in the dark rather than hearing bad news.... I'm sure you might know folks like this... OK -- TV privilege restored! =O) Bob hi guy, you're right! we all know folks like this and some of us are folks like this.<smile> i'm glad your sister's surgery went well, bob. what a kind and loving brother you must be, to do all this searching for answers for her sake. it's nice to run into people like you. there are many causes for an enlarged heart ("cardiomegaly"--if you'd like the medical term for it, to search further). altitude changes were mentioned on this thread. an untreated thyroid condition can also cause it, as can untreated high blood pressure, and some viruses, and etc. my father had emphysema and was a smoker, for almost half his life, quit in in late 40s (actually passed away recently, age 84, because of emphysema. the onset was brought on, not because he once smoked, but because he didn't get out of the house fast enough when he set off insect killing fog bombs. up until that point in his life, yearly chest xrays showed no emphysema.); and his younger brother has it, though he never was a smoker and neither was his wife or adult children; and his older brother had it and he was a smoker all his life, though he died at 92 because of cancer. as you probably already know, some emphysema causes are: air pollution, both indoors and outdoors; exposure to chemical fumes and irritants; lack of a lung-protecting protein called alpha-1-antitrypsin, a genetic condition (which my uncle said he has); smoking and/or exposure to second-hand smoke also contributes to the onset. there may "appear" to be no exposure to chemical fumes and irritants (for instance, no work environment exposures), however, we are and were all exposed to chemical fumes and irritants in our everyday lives--cleaning agents, outgases from all kinds of products, like plastics and furnishings, personal toiletries, paints and solvents (things generally not considered by average people as chemicals or irritants, like fingernail polishes and polish removers, hair sprays, etc.), fiberglass, etc. that kind of incidental exposure might be accumulative in the damage caused to lungs and set the stage for emphysema. depending upon how old your sister is, and i'm guessing in her 50s, there were lots of irritants that were taken for granted as "wonders of science and technology" products, in the 1950s. for instance, i grew up with exposed asbestos fibers woven into ironing board covers and iron rests that had sheets of exposed raw asbestos on the underside of the metal plate. my kid brother and i used to play with it, as kids, and my kid sister used to teethe on it, the iron rest i mean (yeah, i know. it is scary, now.). so, my point is, this is harder to pin down than one might think. but again, in view of the fact that your sister has had arthritis for 20 years, i think bruce's advice was and is still sound. kate > > On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:04:35 GMT, "Mail Man Bob" <no@where.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > kate Thanks, Kate! Oh, it doesn't bother me. Thanks for the kind words. Now you all behave or no TV tonight! =O) whew! that i can live with. but if you had said, "no computer", i'd have been crushed.<smile> kate > Guys, I appreciate info from all sides and will listen to everyone and > make [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > kate [crossposted NG's deleted out of courtesy to those groups to prevent flooding from multiple responses] >My sister had just been diagnoses with chronic emphysema and an enlarged >heart. What I have been able to learn (guess) is that the heart condition [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Bob Hi Bob, if your sister has arthritis, then the diagnosis identifying the specific type of arthritis is the important factor. As Bruce correctly noted, there are rheumatoid lung diseases that are autoimmune in origin. I have the rarer form of Rheumatoid Arthritis that also attacks connective tissues, tendons & ligaments, and vital organs, on top of all tissues in every joint in my body. And I have full-blown rheumatoid lung disease now, which includes COPD, rheumatoid asthma, early stage emphysema, a pleural effusion in my left lung (fluid buildup in the lining), and nodules on the right lobe. As Bruce recommended, it would be a good idea for your sister to consult a rheumatologist to get a definitive diagnosis, as well as a pulmonologist. The treatments for rheumatoid lung disease, and other autoimmune related lung ailments, are slightly different than with typical emphysema or common asthma. -- LadyKitt With any incurable, progressive disease there are two choices: I can choose to live the disease, or I can choose to live life. So I choose to live life....until the disease finally ends it! ;-B >> On Aug 19, 11:57 pm, DaKittster <dakitts...@yahoo.com> wrote: And I have full-blown rheumatoid lung disease now, which includes COPD, rheumatoid asthma, early stage emphysema, a pleural effusion in my left lung (fluid buildup in the lining), and nodules on the right lobe. The treatments for rheumatoid lung disease, and other autoimmune related lung ailments, are slightly different than with typical emphysema or common asthma. << How come in this phlebotomy study .. didn't .. the researchers .. **differentiate** .. this .. difference .. you so .. kindly .. point .. out .. ? How come the .. researchers didn't say .. "you know there are over three hundred different types of rheumatoid arthritis that are associated with COPD .. how are we EVER going to .. differentiate .. between ALL of them .. it is simply .. impossible" .. as opposed to .. "we took a bunch of COPD patients .. bloodlet them .. and they recovered function to a .. degree which was .. remarkable .. " .. Eh .. Because .. ? There is VERY .. little .. difference .. IN .. COPD .. Emphysema .. / .. COPD .. venesections et al .. Chest 1990 Nov;98(5):1073-7 Exercise performance of polycythemic chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients. Effect of phlebotomies. Chetty KG, Light RW, Stansbury DW, Milne N Department of Medicine, VA Medical Center, Long Beach, CA 90822. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of phlebotomy on the exercise tolerance and right and left ventricular ejection fraction of polycythemic patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Ten patients with COPD (mean FEV1 = 1.32 +/- 0.55 L) and polycythemia (mean Hct = 62 +/- 3 percent) were studied before and after their hematocrits had been reduced to approximately 50 percent. Post-phlebotomy the maximal oxygen consumption increased from 1.09 +/- 0.34 L/min to 1.26 +/- 0.43 L/min (p less than 0.05) and the maximum workload increased from 56.5 +/- 32.6 watts to 74.5 +/- 23.4 watts (p less than 0.05). The increase in the exercise tolerance appeared to be primarily due to an increased cardiac output at Emax. There was no relationship between the increases in the upright exercise capacity and changes in the supine ejection fractions of the right or left ventricular either at rest or during exercise. PMID: 2225946, UI: 91030710 _________________________________________________________________ Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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