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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2007

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questions about the symptoms and course of osteoarthritis and Baker's cyst

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aspidistra - 29 Jul 2007 05:50 GMT
I am newly diagnosed by my rheumatologist with OA and a Baker's cyst. I have
had the pain and swelling in my knees for about 4 months. Sometimes also,
swelling of the ankles and feet. Before that it started gradually with
stiffness in one knee. Xrays in May showed no arthritis, and it was thought
to be an overuse injury, and there was evidence of a meniscus injury. I got
some physio, and learned some exercises, and I was getting better. I did not
have much pain for the last few weeks. Prior to this, in most of April and
May I could hardly walk (used a cane, taped my knees) or raise myself from a
seated position (baths were impossible); and after lying down at night to
sleep it felt like I would heal a little, then it seemed I would reinjure
myself by walking or climbing stairs.

But in the last few weeks, what with the exercises, and time presumably
healing me, I felt I was about 75% better and could do a lot more without
pain, just stiffness. I have the muscle stiffness all over, and stiff knees.
But I was able to even straighten my legs for the first time in months,
recently.

Then last night I felt it come over me again, it was getting very hard to
walk and I was getting pain; and today, I woke up with tingling legs, and
painful knees. It progressed to burning pain, (what on earth causes the
burning?) and I am back to having to take half steps on the stairs, and felt
like the left knee would buckle. Excruciating pain. I did n't have anything
like it for several weeks.

I rested all day so I could do these tasks I had to do, and should not have
done  - the stairs and all the exertion have intensified the pain.

I cannot take the ibuprofen which is supposed to help inflammation and pain,
because I have a kidney disease. I was given an NSAID gel to put on the
knees but it does nothing at all. The rheumatologist said not to use the ace
bandages as they just make swelling worse. I get no relief from heat or cold
applied. Only lying down for 6 or more hours with legs elevated gives relief
when I get like this and I can't always do that in the daytime!

The only thing I can think of is that caused this is that I had to walk
longer than I wanted to the day before, in order to help someone who is far
sicker than me. It had to be done; I had no choice but to push myself when I
felt it was too much.

In the past if I did too much, I felt one or both knees flare up, (sometimes
I felt a sudden swelling in one knee or leg, but it would often abate after
a few hours and a night's sleep). Or I'd feel the knee give out, and start
cracking and of course the swelling would increase.

When in a flare up,  the pain would go into my legs. It was like something
was draining from the knees into the legs and making them ache. I am talking
about April, May - I hadn't had this agony since then. Which is why it
surprises me so much now.

So I learned back then not to garden or vacuum; to pace myself and rest
frequently . This time I couldn't, I had to do things, it's not like it was
tons more, maybe just a half hour more walking than I felt able to do: and
once again it felt like I reinjured something. Both legs feel again like
they were beaten with baseball bats. That is the only way I can describe it.
Or like they are both partly fractured. The ankles were swollen but the
swelling goes down a little if I elevate the legs. The pain has not stopped
though, and it feels like this is permanent! and it scares me.

I want to know if this is likely to be the course for the rest of my life.
My sister had osteoarthritis and had a knee replaced. She took ibuprofen,
and she never complained. I don't know how she coped. (I can't ask her now
as she died last year). I will get the results of all the blood tests next
week, and am going to be having an MRI. But, with pain that makes my legs
give out, and makes me unable now to help where I am needed, I just need
some reassurance that this will get better, that there is some kind of pain
reliever I can take that will not make my kidney disease worse.

I also need to know why this is brushed aside as so trivial by family,
friends and doctors alike. Why is it considered such a little thing like a
mosquito bite or a cold? It's puzzling to me that it's winked at, scorned by
my family, and the doctors misdiagnosed it for months, and then the
rheumatologist just gives me no idea about how he is going to treat it. The
pain when it comes, affects my ability to walk, let alone take a bath, cook,
sit down, stand up, help others who are far worse off than me! It's not like
other things that heal. This took months to slightly heal, now it is back to
square one with such pain.

Any comments from those who are familiar with this would be so appreciated.

I feel my family is very irritated with me, and doesn't want to hear about
my pain. Considering that I've never had anything like this, that it
actually affects how I can take care of myself let alone others, this is
very serious to me. Yet it is brushed aside as something normal in old age.
I am old, 58, but not everyone who is old is in excruciating pain.....

Does anyone know why a knee flare up, for whatever reason (renewed swelling
from too much walking, etc.) would travel into the legs and ankles and cause
such intense pain? What causes the feeling that the legs/knees are partly
healing, then being reinjured over and over? Why would they seem to be OK
for weeks, and then suddenly worse with just a little more activity?

I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1999. That got better after 3 years,
with exercise and diet. I was even able to do yoga, up until 2006 when I
seemed to get stiff in the knees and stopped doing as much. But I ignored it
for quite a while, thinking it was nothing. When this swelling and pain
started I thought that the FM was coming back. But this is much worse, and I
never had it in the knees like this before.

I am sorry for the length of this post. I have been reading this group for a
while since all this started, but didn't want to post my ridiculous
complaints - yet this is as summarized as I can make it and still be clear -
and was searching for answers. I can't find that much on the web that sounds
like what is happening with me. Two weeks ago, the rheumatologist gave me a
cortisone injection and took some of the fluid out for testing, and the pain
increased for one day, then got way better until today. I assume nothing is
horrific in the fluid or he would have called me. I am still waiting for the
MRI to be schedule.

I am just hoping someone out there will be able to tell me that all this
pain is normal and usual, the way it gets better and comes back, and that
there is a reason for it, and a way to manage it. Thanks for listening.
Donna G. - 29 Jul 2007 08:19 GMT
Dear A. (not sure what you want to be called?)

First of all, what you are going through is fairly common and you are
not over-reacting.  

Having OA (osteoarthritis) in itself can be quite painful and
unpredictable.  Add in a bakers cyst which can really cause some serious
pain and heavy aching and then on top of that, torn cartilage, whooo
boy, that can add up to some pretty unrelenting pain and swelling.
Also, if the bakers cyst should rupture, the pain / swelling will likely
get a whole lot worse before it gets better.  I had the same situation a
few years back in one knee, with the torn cartilage and a bakers cyst.
Man that thing would ache like crazy and keep me up at night with such
pain----especially when I would try to straighten out the leg.  Finally
ended up having arthroscopic surgery to clean out the joint, take care
of the torn cartilage, and get rid of the bakers cyst.  That was about 3
years ago, and what a world of difference in pain levels and such.
Might want to talk to an orthopedic surgeon once you have the results of
your MRI scan back.

Also, when you have your legs elevated and are resting, try using some
ice on those knees to help with the inflammation.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through such a rough patch with all of
this.  Sounds positively miserable.

As for family and friends, it is always hard for them to understand and
accept, as they don't have to live it day in and day out, and just can't
relate.  They get frustrated too, because they want you to be doing well
and they don't know how to help.  

As for the doctors, if you don't think they are taking this seriously,
find one that you feel DOES take it seriously.  You should not have to
live in such misery, and your doctors should work with you to get you as
comfortable as possible!

Stick around and vent here, we do get it and will help you through this
the best we can!!!

Hugs,

Donna
.
.
.
.
1.   ANGELS EXIST, but some times, since they don't all have wings, we
call them FRIENDS......

2.    J.K.M.A.
Harvey R. Stone - 29 Jul 2007 13:36 GMT
Well said Donna and Welcome to ASA to "A".    My only suggestion is for you
to be sure your RD understands all about your knees and what you can and can
not do.   EXPECT help.....   and no you do not have to live this way with
the right help.    A  question or two,,,,,,  have your taken prednisone and
did it help?   Have you had your knees drained and a steroid in the joint?
Was the Bakers cyst removed?

Harv

> Dear A. (not sure what you want to be called?)
>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> 2.    J.K.M.A.
Nann Bell - 30 Jul 2007 13:00 GMT
Donna said a lot and said it very well.  I second all she says.  An
additional comment about the doctors.  It is unfortunately true that too many
primary care doctors consider aches and pains to be normal aging stuff until
presented with ample proof that it isn't.  As long as you like your doctor
otherwise, there isn't a lot to be done about it.  If you have other
objections, look for doctor who suits you better.  When you feel so lousy,
you need a doctor you can trust!

As for your RD (rheumatologist) not telling you how he'll treat it - he
really does need to gather more information first.  There are many different
kinds of arthritis, differing levels of degeneration or inflammation and
differing degrees of Baker's cysts.  He needs to determine what's up before
knowing how to treat it.  He should have a lot more to talk over with you
once allt he testing is done.  Hang in there, a decent RD is your best friend
for now.

Friends and family have been corrupted by all those TV commercials about
arthritis pain being magically relieved by a couple of tylenol.  We know that
doesn't touch our level of arthritis, but others know that only if they live
with you, watch you and trust what they observe.  It's a problem, no doubt
about it. Hang around here - there's lots of great knowledge in this group
and sopmeone is always available with a shoulder or a hug when the world is
taking too great a toll on you.
Signature

Nann
remove the Gator cheer to email me
Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare

Squirrely - 31 Jul 2007 09:25 GMT
I feel for you with all that terrible pain. I don't have any answers but
wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

I am wondering if it could have something to do with the meniscus tear. I
know my son had a problem with it. He has JRA.

I am also wondering if your FMS isn't flaring. It could be.

Things that make arthritis and fms flair is weather changes and I don't know
where you are but even out here in CA, I have been suffering the last few
months even though it is summer. Any changes and it affects me.

I feel for you not being able to take the ibuprofen, I can't take any
aspirin products because of stomach bleeding, so that does limit what will
be able to help us.

Over walking, over doing, over moving around, any kind of stress on any of
the bothersome joints will set you up for flaring.

I can understand your being scared. I think it scares us all till we really
understand what is going on.

Let us know what they find with the blood tests and the MRI.

Families sometimes have a way of brushing us aside because they just don't
know how to deal with a chronic ill person that is in pain all the time and
has restrictions. NOt all do but some do.

If your drs don't pay attention to it and work with you, you need to get
another dr.

Your post is not ridiculous complaints. That is why we are here, to get help
from others that have dealt with this and to give help to those that we can.

I would not assume anything with the drs. He might have not gotten around to
calling you with the results, someone might have forgotten to call, or they
have not come in yet. I would call them and ask. It doesn't hurt to find
out.

We do have remissions where we are doing better and then boom a flare comes
along and bites us in the rear. So it is the nature of the beast.

Write any time you want. We are here to help and offer support where we can.

Signature

Love and Hugs to all
Jo the squirrely one

>I am newly diagnosed by my rheumatologist with OA and a Baker's cyst. I
>have had the pain and swelling in my knees for about 4 months. Sometimes
[quoted text clipped - 113 lines]
> pain is normal and usual, the way it gets better and comes back, and that
> there is a reason for it, and a way to manage it. Thanks for listening.

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