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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / April 2007Origins of arthritis / autoimmune disease
Hemolytic .. anemia .. iron .. LOADING. Hemolytic anemia is when the red blood cells self destruct / hemo- lysis. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000571.htm#Causes,%20incidence,% 20and%20risk%20factors This is a subcategory of hemolytic anemia .. autoimmune disorder. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000816.htm Autoimmune disorder is mimiced .. BY .. iron overload. Iron overload does a VERY good Elvis impersonation OF .. autoimmune disorder. In FACT .. 'they' .. cannot distinguish between the two and discover the iron CAUSING the autoimmune disorder .. ONLY .. by .. luck. http://tinyurl.com/23cj3d Soo .. the fact they say .. "you have no iron in your body" .. is technically . a .. lie. Beeeecauuuusssee .. ? See above. They .. will tell you they can tell AND know **beyond a shadow of a doubt** .. "that you have .. autoimmune disease" .. WHEN in FACT .. it is the .. iron .. IN .. **excess** .. PROVEN .. http://tinyurl.com/23cj3d Sooo .. the sheer .. number OF .. hemolytic people WITH .. arthritis .. 35% .. leads one to believe the fact .. they .. sell us iron binders such as methotrexate , aspirin , indocin , etc .. FOR arthritis .. leads one to believe they either don't .. **care** .. ABOUT .. the .. iron .. OR .. they are technically pretty .. stupid. Either way .. not .. much use .. to .. anyone. Rev Rhum Ed Fr. 1994 Mar;61(3):174-8. Links [Rheumatic diseases and hemoglobinopathies in Lome (Togo)][Article in French] Mijiyawa M, Segbena A, Vovor A, Nubukpo P, David M, Amedegnato MD. Service de Rhumatologie (1), CHU-Tokoin, Lome, Togo. This prospective cross-sectional study was designed to determine the frequency and impact of hemoglobinopathies in rheumatology clinic patients in Lome (Togo). Among the 405 study patients, 142 (35%) had an abnormal hemoglobin, 22% had hemoglobin S, and 16.8% had hemoglobin C. Sickle cell anemia and sickle cell-hemoglobin C disease (2% and 4.2% of patients respectively) were associated with vasoocclusive crises and necrosis of the femoral head. Presence of AS or AC (heterozygotic forms of hemoglobins S and C) was found in 15.8% and 12.1% of patients, respectively. These proportions were similar to those reported in the population at large. Presence of AS or AC had no detectable influence on degenerative spinal disease, osteoarthritis of the knee, tendinitis or inflammatory joint diseases. Our data suggest that presence of AS or AC has no adverse significance and should be disregarded when evaluating patients with musculoskeletal symptoms. PMID: 7920513 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Apr 3, 4:57 am, numbnutz wrote: > http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000816.htm > > Autoimmune disorder is mimiced .. BY .. iron overload. From that link to nim.nih.gov......................... IMMUNE SYSTEM DISORDERS AND ALLERGIES Immune system disorders occur when the immune response is inappropriate, excessive, or lacking. Allergies involve an immune response to a substance that, in the majority of people, the body perceives as harmless. Transplant rejection involves the destruction of transplanted tissues or organs and is a major complication of organ transplantation. Blood transfusion reaction is a problem caused by receiving blood. Autoimmune disorders (such as systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis) occur when the immune system acts to destroy normal body tissues. Immunodeficiency disorders (such as inherited immunodeficiency and AIDS) occur when there is a failure in all or part of the immune system. Prevention Prevention may not be possible at this time for most autoimmune disorders. Update Date: 4/20/2005 > Man Is A Herbivore! Created with incisors and canine teeth to rip apart, chew and enjoy MEAT. ... P.E.T.A. -- People Eating Tasy Animals ALL the diseases below .. mentioned by .. chief .. have been DOCUMENTED to be .. associated .. with iron or increased red blood cells. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote: Transplant rejection involves the destruction of transplanted tissues or organs and is a major complication of organ transplantation. << Sickle cell is a hemolytic anemia .. with increased red blood cell production .. and coincidentally below PRESENTS with a disease which has only been lately to BE .. **indistinguishable** .. FROM .. iron overload .. Graft Versus Host Disease / transplant rejection. Titre du document / Document title Autoimmune liver disease and Sickle cell anemia in children : A report of three cases Auteur(s) / Author(s) Résumé / Abstract Purpose. We wish to alert clinicians to the possible association between Sickle cell anemia (SCA) and autoimmune liver disease (AIL). http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2679141 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote:Blood transfusion reaction is a problem caused by receiving blood. << Giving MORE blood / transfusions to someone ALREADY known to be .. prone to .. erythrocytosis / increased red blood cells .. leads to .. autoimmune disease. Management and Therapy of Sickle Cell DiseaseSosler SD, Perkins JT, Saporito C, Unger P, Koshy M. Severe autoimmune hemolytic anemia induced by transfusion in two alloimmunized patients with sickle ... sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/transfusion.html - 50k - Cached - Similar pages ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote:Allergies involve an immune response to a substance that, in the majority of people, the body perceives as harmless. << Allergies, Autism Linked To Excess Dietary Iron U. Padhye http://tinyurl.com/2gurfq ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote: Autoimmune disorders (such as systemic lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis) occur when the immune system acts to destroy normal body tissues. << Both lupus and rheumatoid arthritis have been linked to elevated iron levels in the body . http://tinyurl.com/23yspp http://tinyurl.com/ysazj8 >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote: munodeficiency disorders (such as inherited immunodeficiency and AIDS) occur when there is a failure in all or part of the immune system.<< Elevated iron levels in Aids patients. ttp://tinyurl.com/2gjlsu >> Apr 3, 7:18 pm, "Fire Chief" <CALIFORNIA_CH...@PEOPLEPC.COM> wrote: Prevention Prevention may not be possible at this time for most autoimmune disorders. << I suppose since bloodletting CURES sickle cell patients .. then **THOSE** patients DID NOT .. manifest .. **ANY** of THE .. 'autoimmune reactions' .. therefore .. prevention .. OF .. autoimmunity .. IS .. possible. [Prevention of sickle cell crises with multiple phlebotomies] http://tinyurl.com/38x49 Logic and .. reason .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Apr 3, 4:57 am, numbnutz wrote: "Numbnutz!!!" LOL! That's one of the best names for Tommy I've seen yet! Ya gotta love it when he X-posts, and we get to see what he's called elsewhere! Sylvia (still giggling) >> On Apr 3, 4:57 am, numbnutz wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sylvia (still giggling) Hhhhm, Maybe he does this to get the beatings he takes..... Maybe he needs your giggles,,,,, just a thought. Harv Hi Tom. You have presented a lot of links proving your case, which I have not fully explored. They do seem pertinent, if one can get past the "medicalese". You seem to be an expert on the issue of iron and arthritis. I'm wondering why that is? Do you have arthritis or MS? Not that that matters. We, (well, most of us anyway, I'm sure) don't choose doctors because they have our disease. I'm just curious. So, just in case you are right, and RA IS caused or exacerbated by iron, can you tell me how much iron is too much, and how can I tell if I have "too much"? According to your theory, if iron is the, or one of, the culprits, regular blood transfusions should make a BIG difference, right? Do you have a study that shows that? As an adult male, how much iron do I need in my suppliments? How much meat? Can cottage cheese stand in the place of meat? I have had success is controlling my arthritis by followoing an anti-inflammation regimin: 1) taking refined fish oil, 1tsp/day, 2) reducing omega 6 oils, and, 3) cutting back on high glycemic load foods such as refined flour products and potatoes. How would this regimen fit with your iron overload theory? Thanks for your time if you choose to respond. Sincerely, BlackHawk >Hemolytic .. anemia .. iron .. LOADING. > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >DEAD PEOPLE WALKING >http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk >>On Apr 12, 8:38 pm, BlackHawk96 <some...@inyourdreams.edu> wrote: According to your theory, if iron is the, or one of, the culprits, regular blood transfusions should make a BIG difference, right? Do you have a study that shows that?<< You believe .. blood transfusions would HELP .. in somebody who has too much iron in their .. body .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: > >Hemolytic .. anemia .. iron .. LOADING. [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > - Show quoted text - numbnutz tommy wrote: > According to your theory, if iron is the, or one of, the culprits, > regular blood transfusions should make a BIG difference, right? > Do you have a study that shows that? > > You believe .. blood transfusions would HELP .. in somebody who has > too much iron in their .. body .. ? HE ASKED YOU A QUESTION, DAMN YOU. ANSWER THE QUESTION WITHOUT ASKING ANOTHER ONE. AND ANSWER THE OTHER QUESTIONS YOU WERE ASKED, IF YOU'RE NOT A SCARED PUSSYCAT. > Jesus Was A Vegetarian Who went fishing with his disciples and fed fish to the multitudes. > Man Is A Herbivore! Born with molars and canine teeth to bite, chew, and enjoy MEAT. ... numbnutz tommy is proof that Americans can enjoy a joke. >> According to your theory, if iron is the, or one of, the culprits, regular blood transfusions should make a BIG difference, right? Do you have a study that shows that?<< "Near-iron deficiency-induced remission of gouty arthritis" http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/42/12/1550#BIB15 Since you .. MEAN .. 'donations' as opposed to .. transfusions .. donations / blood DONATIONS .. lower iron levels in the body .. whereas .. transfusions / injection of blood .. increases iron levels in the body .. DUE TO .. the **iron rich** red blood cells infused / injected into your body. > > You believe .. blood transfusions would HELP .. in somebody who has > > too much iron in their .. body .. ? > > HE ASKED YOU A QUESTION, DAMN YOU. > > ANSWER THE QUESTION WITHOUT ASKING ANOTHER ONE. Jeez .. chief .. the guy either **knows** VERY **little** ABOUT .. blood injection or removal .. or else he is just another .. jrkff .. I run into alot of .. jrkffs there .. chief .. Unless you haven't .. noticed .. HE .. 'asked' .. about .. transfusions .. you should have been able to enlighten him on his little .. mixup .. but I guess you didn't seem to think it was worth YOUR .. *while* to describe the .. *difference* between transfusions and 'donation' / blood donation. Buuuut .. you were very happy .. and BOTHERED .. to .. attack .. ME .. ? Priorities .. I .. guess .. eh .. chief .. Screw him .. and screw .. me .. Eh .. chief .. >> AND ANSWER THE OTHER QUESTIONS YOU WERE ASKED, IF YOU'RE NOT A SCARED PUSSYCAT.<< Do .. I .. look like some .. doctor .. there .. chief .. ? I .. have 'collected' medical studies which .. bolster .. the findings of iron removal .. The common .. thread amongst them all .. IS .. ? .. is .. ? .. is .. ? Low-iron diet .. and iron REMOVAL .. r-e-m-o-v-a-l / taking AWAY .. iron. Soooo ... the questions he asked .. are .. all answered .. already .. IF .. he is truly .. interested .. >>1) taking refined fish oil, 1tsp/day, << Has been shown to raise oxidation in the body .. and 'oxidation' is used to assess .. damage .. >>2) reducing omega 6 oils, and,<< Without removal of iron .. these interventions are simply .. interventions which are TARGETING .. 'problems' .. caused BY the iron .. and until iron is removed .. the interventions are NOT .. targeting the main .. PROBLEM .. which is .. ? which is .. ? which is .. ? The iron .. >>3) cutting back on high glycemic load foods such as refined flour products and potatoes. How would this regimen fit with your iron overload theory? << ALL floured products have iron .. ADDED to them .. Iron is ADDED .. creating .. 'enriched flour' .. by LAW .. and therefore ingesting THIS type of flour BY someone with iron overload .. would be a bad thing .. Potatoes are .. "bad" .. for you .. ? Logically .. look AT that .. statement .. The **ability** to assimilate / digest the potato has been .. compromised .. So by .. "giving up pie / potato" .. is pretty much .. giving IN to the .. bully .. HE / iron / bully says "you cannot eat pie or I will hurt you " .. and you say .. "OK .. because you hurt me if I eat pie / potato .. " .. whereas .. you .. TRULY .. would like to just simply .. kick the crap out of the bully .. and eat your pie / potato while you do it .. Sooo .. one can simply forgo / give UP eating pie / potatoes .. OR .. one can ask the bully / iron .. to .. simply .. "kindly leave" / sweep the knee .. and then one doesn't have to worry about eating .. pie / potato .. Because .. ? The bully / iron .. is .. gone. Am J Gastroenterol. 2007 Mar 27; Iron Depletion by Phlebotomy Improves Insulin Resistance in Patients With Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and Hyperferritinemia: Evidence from a Case-Control Study.Valenti L, Fracanzani AL, Dongiovanni P, Bugianesi E, Marchesini G, Manzini P, Vanni E, Fargion S. Department of Internal Medicine, Universita' di Milano, Ospedale Policlinico Mangiagalli Regina Elena IRCCS, Milano, Italy. OBJECTIVES: Hyperferritinemia is frequently observed in nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), the hepatic manifestation of the metabolic syndrome characterized by hepatic insulin resistance and considered high cardiovascular risk. Iron depletion by phlebotomy has been reported to decrease insulin resistance in NAFLD in small, uncontrolled studies. Aims of this study were to define the relationship between ferritin and iron stores in patients with NAFLD, the effect of iron depletion on insulin resistance, and whether basal ferritin levels influence treatment outcome. METHODS: Subjects were included if ferritin and/or ALT were persistently elevated after 4 months of standard therapy. Sixty-four phlebotomized subjects were matched 1:1 for age, sex, ferritin, obesity, and ALT levels with patients who underwent lifestyle modifications only. Insulin resistance was evaluated by insulin levels, determined by RIA and the HOMA-R index, at baseline and after 8 months. RESULTS: Baseline ferritin levels were associated with body iron stores (P < 0.0001). Iron depletion produced a significantly larger decrease in insulin resistance (P= 0.0016 for insulin, P= 0.0042 for HOMA-R) compared with nutritional counseling alone, independent of changes in BMI, baseline HOMA-R, and the presence of the metabolic syndrome. Iron depletion was more effective in reducing HOMA-R in patients in the top two tertiles of ferritin concentrations (P < 0.05 vs controls), and in carriers of the mutations in the HFE gene of hereditary hemochromatosis (P < 0.05 vs noncarriers). CONCLUSIONS: Given that phlebotomy reduces insulin resistance, which is associated with liver tissue damage, future studies should evaluate the effect of iron depletion on liver histology and cardiovascular end points. PMID: 17391316 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk numbnuts tommy wrote: > Jeez .. chief .. the guy either **knows** VERY **little** ABOUT .. > blood injection or removal .. or else he is just another .. jrkff .. > > I run into alot of .. jrkffs there .. chief .. > > Unless you haven't .. noticed .. What we have noticed is that you are the only jrkff in 50 to 60 groups. And you still haven't answered the other person's questions. Blackhawk wrote and asked you: You seem to be an expert on the issue of iron and arthritis. I'm wondering why that is? Do you have arthritis or MS? So, just in case you are right, and RA IS caused or exacerbated by iron, can you tell me how much iron is too much, and how can I tell if I have "too much"? Maybe you don't have the answers. All you can do it cut and paste from others (without their copyright notice). ... numbnutz tommy was arrested for domestic violence after ... he discovered that his hand was cheating on him. >>1) taking refinedfishoil, 1tsp/day, << >> Has been shown to raise oxidation in the body .. and 'oxidation' is used to assess .. damage ..<< <<snip>> evidence of the prooxidative effects of high dietary fish oil and iron <<snip>> J Nutr. 1997 Jul;127(7):1401-6. Oxidative stress and antioxidant status in mouse liver: effects of dietary lipid, vitamin E and iron. Ibrahim W, Lee US, Yeh CC, Szabo J, Bruckner G, Chow CK. Department of Nutrition and Food Science, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY 40506-0054, USA. The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of dietary fat, vitamin E and iron on oxidative damage and antioxidant status. Male Swiss-Webster mice (1 mo old) were fed a basal vitamin E-deficient diet that contained either 8% fish oil + 2% corn oil or 10% lard with or without 1 g dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate. The diets without vitamin E contained either 0.21 or 0.95 g ferric citrate/kg. Diets were fed for 4 wk/kg diet. Compared with the vitamin E-supplemented groups, mice fed diets without vitamin E (with or without supplemental iron) had significantly (P < 0.05) higher hepatic levels of thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances (TBARS), conjugated dienes and protein carbonyls when they were fed fish oil, but not lard.The levels of TBARS were further increased by iron supplementation in the mice fed fish oil. Significantly lower concentrations of alpha-tocopherol and higher glutathione (GSH) were found in the liver of mice fed fish oil and vitamin E than in those fed lard and vitamin E (P < 0.05). The activities of superoxide dismutase and glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase were lower in the fish oil-fed mice than in those fed lard (P < 0.05). The activities of Se-GSH peroxidase, non-Se-GSH peroxidase, catalase, and glutathione reductase were not altered by dietary fat or vitamin E/iron. The results obtained provide experimental evidence of the prooxidative effects of high dietary fish oil and iron, and suggest that vitamin E protects not only lipid- soluble compounds, but also water-soluble constituents, against oxidative damage. Further, dietary lipid plays a key role in determining cellular susceptibility to oxidative stress. PMID: 9202098 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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