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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / January 2007

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Question on tramadol

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floridamom - 01 Jan 2007 20:34 GMT
I have a lumbar herniated disc and was put on tramadol 50 mg and
neurontin 200mg to each be taken three times a day. Have been doing
Physical therapy and it has helped. Was NOT in pain when it was time to
take my meds..so I didn NOT take the tramadol. This is where I am
confused...I have read where people say they get nausea from the med. I
have never gotten Nausea, UNTIL last night after I did NOT take the
med. I called the pharmacist and he told  Me being I was on such a
small dose I don't need to wean off of it. So, I have not taken the
last night, or this morning dose. The nausea is still there! Is this a
Withdrawal effect?
    I also want to try stopping the neurontin. The doctor told me I
"probably could but the pain might return".....so much for specialist
giving you info. He did NOT tell me to wean off this one! I'm glad I
checked the internet and then asked the pharmacist! But I haven't done
anything with this yet.
  Previously(months ago) I was diagnosed also with  BPPV (vertigo).
It's been minor and I have been able to "deal with it". well last
night, I got this feeling as if I "was falling off the couch, and then
got the spinning in my head worse than I had EVER before! So, I'm not
sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
   Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
Shirlawn@aol.com - 01 Jan 2007 22:07 GMT
> I have a lumbar herniated disc and was put on tramadol 50 mg and
> neurontin 200mg to each be taken three times a day. Have been doing
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
Shirlawn@aol.com - 01 Jan 2007 22:08 GMT
> I have a lumbar herniated disc and was put on tramadol 50 mg and
> neurontin 200mg to each be taken three times a day. Have been doing
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
d'huit - 01 Jan 2007 22:53 GMT
hi floidamom,

welcome to our family.

i have similar back issues and take 75mg of ultracet (which is 75mg tramadol
with 650mg acetaminaphen), as needed for pain.  there are times when i don't
need it and don't take it (there are also times when i need it and forget to
take it, cuz i'm not very bright on that score<smile>).  i've never had a
bad reaction to taking or not taking tramadol (that's not to say that
somebody else wouldn't).

based upon what you've said here, i'm thinking something else is going on.
a question that needs to be answered is what else are you taking, besides
neurontin, if anything?  tramadol, itself, has a tendency to hide the signs
of existing or emerging conditions, like stomach or abdominal conditions (or
other conditions).  i think i'd want to check in with my prescribing
physician concerning these symptoms.

kate

  I have a lumbar herniated disc and was put on tramadol 50 mg and
neurontin 200mg to each be taken three times a day. Have been doing
Physical therapy and it has helped. Was NOT in pain when it was time to
take my meds..so I didn NOT take the tramadol. This is where I am
confused...I have read where people say they get nausea from the med. I
have never gotten Nausea, UNTIL last night after I did NOT take the
med. I called the pharmacist and he told  Me being I was on such a
small dose I don't need to wean off of it. So, I have not taken the
last night, or this morning dose. The nausea is still there! Is this a
Withdrawal effect?
    I also want to try stopping the neurontin. The doctor told me I
"probably could but the pain might return".....so much for specialist
giving you info. He did NOT tell me to wean off this one! I'm glad I
checked the internet and then asked the pharmacist! But I haven't done
anything with this yet.
  Previously(months ago) I was diagnosed also with  BPPV (vertigo).
It's been minor and I have been able to "deal with it". well last
night, I got this feeling as if I "was falling off the couch, and then
got the spinning in my head worse than I had EVER before! So, I'm not
sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
   Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
floridamom - 02 Jan 2007 23:57 GMT
Hi Kate!

    Thanks for your response! I understand what you have said, and
have had the nausea for three days now, and my son just told me he ALSO
has been nauseous! So, how often are you using the ultracet? I also
take maxide for my Blood pressure.....and that's about it, (besides
vits). Thanks for your help! I have just heard so many bad things about
both tramadol and neurontin....I guess I am getting panicky! Barb

> hi floidamom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
d'huit - 03 Jan 2007 02:41 GMT
Hi Kate!

    Thanks for your response! I understand what you have said, and
have had the nausea for three days now, and my son just told me he ALSO
has been nauseous!

***it does kind of sound like a bug of some kind, doesn't it?  personally, i
wouldn't let it go on longer than 3 days.  if it is cause by a bacteria, it
can and should be treated.

So, how often are you using the ultracet?

***that particular question, at this point in time, is difficult to answer.
i've had multiple site spinal injections the past couple of months and those
injections do help quite a bit for me and cut down on my use of painkillers.
without having had those injections, i'd take the 75mg every 4 to 6 hours,
when my pain threshhold has limited out.  the latest count is that i have 19
"blown" discs (an oversimplified description of various degrees of
degenerated discs) and spinal nerve impingment at several levels,
osteophytes that are resculpting my spine, stenosis at a few levels, and
various other spinal "inconveniences"<smile>.

I also
take maxide for my Blood pressure.....and that's about it, (besides
vits). Thanks for your help! I have just heard so many bad things about
both tramadol and neurontin....I guess I am getting panicky! Barb

***panicky is not necessarily always a bad thing, barb.   sometimes, it gets
us up on our toes when we need to be.<smile>  and too, i figure if i can
still function, panic hasn't taken over.<smile>  i personally think that
everybody, who takes more than 2 drugs (including vitamins and supplements),
would be wise to make use of a drug checker on the web, every time they add
another drug to their medication list.  there are lots of adverse drug
interactions (as well as food and drug interactions) that most of us would
not be aware of, otherwise.  here's a link to just one checker, that i know
of:
http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/drugchecker/druglist.asp?drugtoadd=Cyclobenzap
rine%7C100963


i'm sure there are others on asa who have their preferences, when it comes
to drug checkers, and they might want to chime in with their particular
favorites.

kate

d'huit wrote:
> hi floidamom,
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
floridamom - 03 Jan 2007 06:03 GMT
Kate,

   Thanks again for sharing your info! So, the spinal shots have
helped you? Can you tell me the process, (How they do it), it's been
brought up, and of course I'm scared to death! My biggest issue right
now is the paresthesia I guess from the disc pressing on the nerves???
And it's been brught up that the shots reduce the swelling, therefore
the disc would be off the nerve? And thank you for the link to the drug
checker, I put it in my favorites! Barb

> Hi Kate!
>
[quoted text clipped - 87 lines]
> > sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
> >     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
d'huit - 03 Jan 2007 06:47 GMT
Kate,

   Thanks again for sharing your info! So, the spinal shots have
helped you? Can you tell me the process, (How they do it), it's been
brought up, and of course I'm scared to death! My biggest issue right
now is the paresthesia I guess from the disc pressing on the nerves???
And it's been brught up that the shots reduce the swelling, therefore
the disc would be off the nerve? And thank you for the link to the drug
checker, I put it in my favorites! Barb

***  actually, yes, they have.  my hips still bother me, but the sciatic
pain no longer shoots down my legs.  and now, one side of my thoracic spine
issue no longer bothers me.  and cervically, i haven't had to turn my head
severly to the left to relieve my right arm and hand from numbness.  i can
understand why parasthesia is an issue for you.  it scared the heck out of
me one night, when both my arms and legs became totally feelingless and
useless several years back.  but, thankfully, that was just temporary.  the
injections do reduce inflammation.  just how much of a reduction, i think
depends upon the individual patient's condition.

i'm trying to remember exactly when and who else recently had the
injections. nanny (gloria), i think.  there was a thread about it, about a
month or so ago.  i think the thread subject line was about "epidurals".   i
wrote a very detailed response to that same procedural question for her.
the person who started the thread and had the injections recently said her
experience was slightly different, than i described, but it was very close.
let's see if chief can find it for you.

YO, chief???  do you remember it? and would you please pull up the thread
for barb to read?  thanx, guy!

also, barb, consider asking your neurologist if s/he thinks drx9000
treatments might help you.  it's non-invasive, as opposed to the injections.
my neuro said that having the drx9000 decompress my spine couldn't hurt and
might prove to be very beneficial.  currently, i use an inversion table, but
with my permanent leg injuries it's a challenge for me to be on it for more
than a few minutes.  (there's some leg deformity and leg length issues that
don't work real well with my inversion table.)  but that few minutes still
give me an hour's relief.  when my injections wear off, i'm going to give
the drx9000 treatments a shot.

kate

d'huit wrote:
> Hi Kate!
>
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
> > sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
> >     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
d'huit - 03 Jan 2007 07:09 GMT
found it!  it was nanny (gloria)--under "welcome your input".  i cut and
pasted it for you, barb.  hope it helps.  warning--it's very, very long and
detailed:

From: "d'huit"
Subject: Re: Welcome your input
Date: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:11 PM

hi nanny!

i can certainly empathize with you and your back pain.  some suggestions
that help back pain:  heat, ice, leg elevation, leg and back stretches,
carrying things close to your body, not reaching too far above your head
without the aid of a gopher, lifting things correctly/bending your legs to
pick up things, massage, whirlpool/jacuzzi/hot tub, tens unit,
anti-inflammatories, muscle relaxants, breathing meditations, traction
(physical therapist, inversion table, drx9000), chiropracty, acupuncture,
lazer therapy, and there's a bunch more i cannot think of at this time,
besides surgerical options.

to answer your other question--in the past few months, i've been through a
series of 3 treatments in my L-5/S-1 (epidural, nerve block, trans-laminar
and trans-facet);  a single treatment of T 7-8 trans-facet injections (two
injections, one in each of both sides of the lamina, done just once); and a
single treatment of C-6-7 trans-facet injections (two injections, one into
each facet of the joint).  generally speaking, a pain specialist does not
want to go over 4 doses in a year, of the several different types of
steroids he has available to use.  rare exceptions to the contrary, as you
can tell from above that i'm past that limit, when the nerve issues impair
limb function or other bodily functions.

as you can ascertain from my discription above, there are several injection
techniques that can be utilized by a good pain specialist (and there are a
couple more than i've described, that haven't yet been described to me by my
pain specialist.).  generally speaking, whichever technique is used, the
process itself, from the patient's vantage, is virtually the same.

since you asked for it<smile>, here's how the process goes:

first off i had a consultation with the physician.  s/he needs to know
specifics--where i hurt and at what level of the pain scale; how this pain
is limiting daily life; what other symptoms i was having, like numbness or
muscle spasms; are there functional issues involved (questions like--at
cervicle level nerve issues, are you dropping things or having difficulty
swallowing . . . etc.; or at lower lumbar/sciatic level nerve issues, are
you limping or tripping or falling or cannot sit or stand for very long . .
. etc.)

secondly, you (i'm switching pro-nouns, to make it easier for me to stay
with one) will probably have an mri done to follow up on these reported
issues/symptoms and to give the specialist visual internal information of
where and what the most likely problem/s might be that might or might not
benefit from the injection procedures.

thirdly, after your specialist has had time to review the mri films to
determine an accurate assessment, a diagnosis and prognosis, a course of
action, an individually designed treatment plan specific to your needs, and
the particulars about which techniques might be most beneficial for your
particular needs, s/he will review these things with you.  you may or may
not, have your first injection treatment that day.

if you have been informed that you will have the procedure following this
review, make sure you stop taking your pain meds 8 hours prior to the
procedure and stop taking nsaids and asa meds 24 hours prior to the
procedure (this is important, because the doctor needs to know when and
where you feel familiar pain during the procedure); you may take other
necessary meds with just sips of water;arrange for a driver to take you home
from the procedure; do not eat or drink 2 hours prior to the treatment; give
the doctor a list of your meds and the meds you are allergic to;

fourthly, on the day of your treatment, you will be asked to partially
disrobe, to put on a hospital gown or a set of scrubs.  you may be offered a
valium cocktail before the procedure, to relax you during the procedure.  my
reccommendation is for you to take it.  (i've done this so many times, that
i no longer take it, mainly because i drive myself.  but i suggest you do
take it and don't drive yourself, if you don't have to drive yourself.)

then you will be led into the procedure room.  you will be asked to lie face
down on an operating table.  you will be prepped by an assisstant, who will
swab and drape the area for the procedure.  they may want you to have a
pillow positioned under your chest or abdomen area to help spread your
vertebrae; and a pillow under your feet, to bend your knees for your
comfort.  then, the doctor enters the room.

a C-frame flouroscope (a kind of multiple-axis, realtime x-ray machine) will
be positioned over and around the table and you.  during this positioning
process, images will be taken to locate the exact areas in which the doctor
is going to work.  these images will be seen on a television-like screen,
which will later, in turn, be transferred to a larger multiple- image larger
screen to enhance detail.  once that c-frame is in the correct position, for
the doctor's purposes, s/he begins the procedure.

you will remain awake for the procedure.  you need to stay completely still
for it.  s/he will position a thin needle, incrementally, into the structure
or space that s/he will be treating.  (sometimes, the doctor uses a numbing
agent on the way down, sometimes not.  it depends upon what s/he needs to,
or will, do.  this is not painful, as it is a very thin needle, like a
pinprick.)  once s/he reaches the structure or space, s/he will inject a
contrast dye to confirm needle position and xrays are taken to record it.
you will be told when to hold your breath and when it is ok to breathe
again.

when s/he confirms the needle position, s/he may then inject a combination
of anti-inflammatory (steroid) and anesthetic medication to ease your
original pain complaint.  (s/he will use short-term acting anesthetic on the
way down to the position and longer acting anesthetic with the steroid.)
you will feel pressure and/or discomfort at this time. ****it is very
important, during the procedure, that you give your doctor feed-back; let
him/her know when s/he has stimulated the original and familiar pain that
brought you to this procedure for relief.**** if this discomfort differs
from your usual symptoms, s/he needs to know this, too.  this stimulated
discomfort is valuable and important information for the doctor, to help him
know if s/he's in the right area or not.  (i won't kid you, for me, when he
is in the correct spot, it can be very painful, but very briefly so, because
he immediately anesthetizes the area, when he has that information.)

the procedure generally takes around 10-20 minutes.  you may or may not be
asked to wait up to 30 minutes, before going home, just to make sure there
are no complications.  they also want to make sure that your pain level has
returned to the base-level you were at when you came in.  (most of the time,
by then, my pain level has already improved over base-level.)

post-op - there may be some numbness for 4-6 hours (i only had that happen
once and it lasted about a week, but is gone now.).  your usual symptoms
might return the night of the procedure and may even be more intense for a
day or two, until the steroid begins to kicks in.  so, take your pain meds
when you get home and lie down for awhile, nap if you can--that actually
helps the injected meds to work better.

the benefits of the steroid usually take about 3 days to take effect, but
can take up to 7 days for full benefit.  keep track of how your body
responds to the procedure, on a day to day basis--write it down and give it
to your specialist when you next see  him/her.  you may have a headache, hot
flashes, facial flush, insomnia (or sleepiness when you get home, if you
take the valium cocktail<smile>).  these are common reactions to the
procedure.  (i had facial flush, but nothing else.)

less common reactions are hiccups, increased heart rate and fluid retention.
if these don't go away within 3 days and they distress you, call this doctor
about them.  normally, your specialist's assistant will call you, to see how
you are doing, within a day or two of the procedure.  that's about it.  i
know this was lengthy, but i hope that it helps you, nanny.

kate
floridamom - 03 Jan 2007 23:03 GMT
Thank you Kate for the info! Seen the chiropractor today and he
basically said I need to get my family doctor in the picture as far as
pain management, and he again ordered my PT, which seemed to help. So,
that's the next step. I'm just not sure about the meds I'm on,
wondering if I need to change them. If not for anything for the reason
I'm just afraid of taking them! I kind of feel, I should have an as
needed med first, THEN a three times a day med if that other doesn't
work, Ya know? Well, I'll see what my dr. says tomorrow. Thanks again
Barb

> found it!  it was nanny (gloria)--under "welcome your input".  i cut and
> pasted it for you, barb.  hope it helps.  warning--it's very, very long and
[quoted text clipped - 140 lines]
>
> kate
Nanny - 05 Jan 2007 17:30 GMT
hey, are you calling me "long-winded"? ;-)  Nanny
> found it!  it was nanny (gloria)--under "welcome your input".  i cut and
> pasted it for you, barb.  hope it helps.  warning--it's very, very long
[quoted text clipped - 171 lines]
>
> kate
Nanny - 05 Jan 2007 17:29 GMT
Ultracet did nothing for me, but it does help others I believe.  Instead, I
take Tramadol and Excedrin together to get the best results.  Nanny
> Hi Kate!
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>>     Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
John McDowell - 02 Jan 2007 13:27 GMT
I did not have any nausea when I was on tramadol but I did experience the
absolute worst withdraw symptoms mostly in the form of insomnia that I've
ever had with any drug. It lasted for at least sis weeks and was brutal. It
made withdraw from Vicodan seem simple.

John Mc

>   I have a lumbar herniated disc and was put on tramadol 50 mg and
> neurontin 200mg to each be taken three times a day. Have been doing
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> sure if THAT (the vertigo) is the cause of my nausea.
>    Any insight on this would be so much appreciated..,.........thanks!
PaulG - 02 Jan 2007 20:10 GMT
I concur totally with John. While I did receive some relief, the
withdrawals were terrible. Honestly, just the thought of that drug
makes me feel sick.
floridamom - 02 Jan 2007 23:52 GMT
I have a question for you....Both you and John wrote the same
thing.........what dosage were you taking? I have asked several
pharmacists and they all have told me that my dose was so low I could
just stop! (I was taking 50mg three times a day). Just curious if you
were taking about the same dose? And HOW did you get yourself off of
it? And reccommendations of what to use in it's place? And do you know
anything about neurontin? I appreciate your help!

> I concur totally with John. While I did receive some relief, the
> withdrawals were terrible. Honestly, just the thought of that drug
> makes me feel sick.
Nanny - 05 Jan 2007 17:28 GMT
I've not tried to withdraw from Ultram (Tramadol) yet, so I can't relate the
problems incurred when doing so.  But my dose is same as yours:  50 mg. 3
times a day.  The first dose of the day, I take 2, then 1 more at night.
Nanny
> I have a question for you....Both you and John wrote the same
> thing.........what dosage were you taking? I have asked several
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> withdrawals were terrible. Honestly, just the thought of that drug
>> makes me feel sick.
 
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