Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / January 2007
Multiple Chemical Sensitivity / iron
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ironjustice@aol.com - 28 Dec 2006 06:17 GMT <<snip>> chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to cause porphyria in susceptible individuals. <<snip>>
<<snip>> test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** <<snip>>
Uroporphyria induced by 5-aminolaevulinic acid alone in Ahrd SWR mice. Constantin D, Francis JE, Akhtar RA, Clothier B, Smith AG Biochem Pharmacol. 1996 Nov 8; 52(9): 1407-13
In mice, depression of hepatic uroporphyrinogen decarboxylase (UROD) leading to porphyrin accumulation (uroporphyria) occurs with chlorinated ligands of the aryl hydrocarbon (AH) receptor especially after iron overload. However, in the absence of chlorinated ligands, iron itself will eventually cause uroporphyria, but this response is not associated with the Ahr genotype. These effects are potentiated by administration of the haem precursor 5-aminolaevulinate (ALA). The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of ALA alone. Prolonged administration of 2 mg ALA/mL in the drinking water to SWR mice also led to decarboxylase insufficiency (11% of control) and uroporphyria by 8 weeks, whereas DBA/2 mice did not show reduced enzyme activity. Both strains are considered AH nonresponsive and analysis of the Ahr gene using restriction fragment length polymorphism was consistent with SWR, like DBA/2, possessing the Ahrd allele. Exposure of isolated hepatocytes to ALA (150-500 microM) for up to 48 hr showed a significant accumulation of both uroporphyrin and coproporphyrin in the medium, which for uroporphyrin particularly was significantly greater with SWR than with DBA/2 cells. Basal in vivo CYP1A2 activity, measured as microsomal methoxyresorufin dealkylation, was significantly greater in SWR than in DBA/2 mice (1.3-fold), but it was unclear whether this was sufficient to explain the marked difference in sensitivities of the two strains. Despite SWR mice being AH nonresponsive, uroporphyria and decarboxylase depression after an initial iron overload and ALA for 3 weeks were greatly potentiated by a single dose (100 mg/kg) of hexachlorobenzene (a weak AH ligand). The results demonstrate that there is a genetic difference in mice independent of the Ahr genotype and response to iron, which influences the susceptibility to ALA-induced uroporphyria. Thus chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to cause porphyria in susceptible individuals.
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Multiple Chemical Sensitivitity (MCS)Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is the name given to a syndrome in which a ... test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** content in urine and stool samples. ... www.ei-resource.org/mcs.asp - 87k - Dec 25, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
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<<snip>> ascorbate suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at low, but not high hepatic iron levels <<snip>>
Effect of iron and ascorbate on uroporphyria in ascorbate-requiring mice as a model for porphyria cutanea tarda. Gorman N, Zaharia A, Trask HS, Szakacs JG, Jacobs NJ, Jacobs JM, Balestra D, Sinclair JF, Sinclair PR Hepatology. 2006 Dec 22; 45(1): 187-194
Excess hepatic iron is known to enhance both porphyria cutanea tarda (PCT) and experimental uroporphyria. Since previous studies have suggested a role for ascorbate (AA) in suppressing uroporphyria in AA-requiring rats (in the absence of excess iron), the present study investigated whether AA could suppress uroporphyria produced by excess hepatic iron. Hepatic URO accumulation was produced in AA-requiring Gulo(-/-) mice by treatment with 3,3',4,4',5-pentachlorbiphenyl, an inducer of CYP1A2, and 5-aminolevulinic acid. Mice were administered either sufficient AA (1000 ppm) in the drinking water to maintain near normal hepatic AA levels or a lower intake (75 ppm) that resulted in 70
% lower hepatic AA levels. The higher AA intake suppressed hepatic URO accumulation in the absence of administered iron, but not when iron dextran (300-500 mg Fe/kg) was administered. This effect of iron was not due to hepatic AA depletion since hepatic AA content was not decreased. The effect of iron to prevent AA suppression of hepatic URO accumulation was not observed until a high hepatic iron threshold was exceeded. At both low and high AA intakes, hepatic malondialdehyde (MDA), an indicator of oxidative stress, was increased three-fold by high doses of iron dextran. MDA was considerably increased even at low iron dextran doses, but without any increase in URO accumulation. The level of hepatic CYP1A2 was unaffected by either AA intake. Conclusion:
In this mouse model of PCT, AA suppresses hepatic URO accumulation at low, but not high hepatic iron levels. These results may have implications for the management of PCT. (HEPATOLOGY 2007;45:187-194.).
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The iron loading diseases .. hemochromatosis and hepatitis C .. may CAUSE .. porphyria ..
Sooo .. eating .. meat .. that highly absorbable form of iron FOUND in meat .. then raises iron levels .. and therefore may CAUSE .. porphyria.
http://exchange.healthwell.com/news.cfm?news=1746
<<snip>> "it is probable that a chronically high intake of heme iron can lead to high body iron stores and thus may elevate the risk of diabetes," the authors said. " <<snip>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria
<<snip>> Some liver diseases may cause porphyria even in the absence of genetic predisposition. These include hemochromatosis and hepatitis C. Treatment of iron overload may be required. <<snip>>
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
gazorpf@yahoo.com - 28 Dec 2006 12:20 GMT I see that ironjustice belongs to quite a few health usenet groups. I have to wonder about the motivation for his/her continuing with these posts. The sheer technicality of the posts makes one unlikey to read them. Most likely this person thinks they are helping or saving all of us sick people. I personally grow weary of people who latch on to one bit of information and whack the rest of us over the head with it.
Gets off soap box.
Linda
> <<snip>> > chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk ironjustice@aol.com - 28 Dec 2006 15:11 GMT >>gazorpf@yahoo.com wrote: The sheer technicality of the posts makes one unlikey to read them. <<
Which .. part .. didn't you .. understand .. ?
Increased iron causes .. porphyria .. ?
Do you know how porphyria .. relates .. TO .. lupus ..?
If you DON'T know HOW .. porphyria .. relates TO lupus ..
then .. yes .. it is going to go over your head ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
> Most likely this person thinks they are helping or saving all of > us sick people. I personally grow weary of people who latch on to one [quoted text clipped - 131 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Fire Chief - 28 Dec 2006 18:23 GMT Numbnutz tom wrote:
> Which .. part .. didn't you .. understand .. ? Why you're still breathing.
> Increased iron causes .. porphyria .. ? porphyria: a group of disorders that result from a disturbance in porphyrin metabolism. aute intermittent porphyria: a rare metabolic disorder INHERITED as an autosomal dominant trait. congenital erythropoietic porphyria: a rare condition INHERITED as an autosomal recessive trait. porphyria hepatica: caused by a disturbance in liver metabolism such as occurs following hepatitis and certain anemias.
porphyrin: any of a group of nitrogen-containing organic compounds that occur in protoplasm and form the gasis of animal and plant respiratory pigments. obtained grom hemoglobin and chlorophyll.
> Do you know how porphyria .. relates .. TO .. lupus ..? LUPIS: originally any chronic, progressive, usually ulcerating, skin disease. In current usage when the word is used alone, IT HAS NO PRECISE MEANING.
> If you DON'T know HOW .. porphyria .. relates TO lupus .. > then .. yes .. it is going to go over your head .. Looks like it's already gone over numbnutz tom's head.
... Just when I think numbnuts tom has posted the ... stupidest thing ever, he resumes writing.
SuperLupus@gmail.com - 30 Dec 2006 00:05 GMT > LUPIS: originally any chronic, progressive, usually ulcerating, skin > disease. In current usage when the word is used alone, IT HAS NO > PRECISE MEANING. Thought I'd share a theory/folklore with regards to the origins of the disease called Lupus. Some theories actually attribute SLE with the origins of the legend of the werewolf. As is commonly known Canis Lupus is the "wolf." People with SLE take on a number of characteristics attributed to the wolf. Especially considering times before the disease was properly identified and treated.
The malar rash appears very much like wolf markings, and can appear relatively quickly. I'm sure to untrained peoples it seemed like a supernatural transformation. Also extreme photosensitivity is common in SLE patients. Making them able to function better in low light and seem to be nocturnal. Also I understand that the twisted results of rheumatoid arthritis on digits could make a person's hands look like paws/claws. And I'm also inclined to agree that people with untreated SLE could likely result in crippling. I could imagine, back when, having to crawl on all fours (I sometimes do now when flaring).
Whether or not that's the full story of the origins of Lupus, I have no idea. But it is a sort of interesting theory I heard. Plus to be part of the origins of such a pervasive and significant folklore... sort of cool.
Manky Badger - 28 Dec 2006 22:38 GMT >>>gazorpf@yahoo.com wrote: The sheer technicality of the posts makes one >>>unlikey to read [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Increased iron causes .. porphyria .. ? Quack Quack Oops!
Fire Chief - 28 Dec 2006 18:09 GMT Linda wrote:
> I see that ironjustice belongs to quite a few health usenet groups. I > have to wonder about the motivation for his/her continuing with these > posts. During a period when he failed to wear his aluminum headgear, numbnutz tom had a "revelation" about the "true meaning" of the Bible.
... Numbnutz Tom runs DUMB ver 2.0, an upgrade from STUPID 0.01
johnie - 28 Dec 2006 19:58 GMT > I see that ironjustice belongs to quite a few health usenet groups. I > have to wonder about the motivation for his/her continuing with these > posts. Linda, Tom has been at it a long time and is definitely a "zealot".
>The sheer technicality of the posts makes one unlikey to read > them. No one does and thats why we try to just ignore him. At one time an effort was made to engage him in rational debate over some of his findings but he isn't interested and has proven to be just another 'nasty little troll'. Most of his posts are 'cut and paste' in a way that removes them from any meaningful context.
> Most likely this person thinks they are helping or saving all of > us sick people. I personally grow weary of people who latch on to one > bit of information and whack the rest of us over the head with it. You really should just kill-file this moron cause if nothing else he is persistent.
johnie
gazorpf@yahoo.com - 01 Jan 2007 14:24 GMT LOL Thanks! This one is the ultimate dweeb.I will stop feeding the troll. Happy New Year
> > I see that ironjustice belongs to quite a few health usenet groups. I > > have to wonder about the motivation for his/her continuing with these [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > johnie SuperLupus@gmail.com - 03 Jan 2007 01:02 GMT Guess I'll just have to trust in the power of elimination! Hope you all have a wonderful New Year (and a great big elimination so you don't OD on Iron) in '07!!!
LOL-- Adore you guys!
SuperLupus@gmail.com - 29 Dec 2006 22:48 GMT Excessive anything is potentially dangerous. That's why it is described as excessive... One should always take control of their own health and blood values. Finding deficiencies that can be reconciled by way of supplementation, including that by ferrous sulphate, should be well considered and judiciously administered. Thank you very much Ironnut.
Also: Jesus was a vegetarian and so was I. Maybe I can help with the lessions on your brain.
ironjustice@aol.com - 30 Dec 2006 05:29 GMT >>SuperLupus@gmail.com wrote:Finding deficiencies that can be reconciled by way of supplementation, including that by ferrous sulphate, .<<
And WHEN in your .. opinion .. WOULD this EVER .. pertain .. ?
Read my lips ..
There is NO 'iron deficiency' .. IN .. this world.
You are BORN with seven months worth of iron in your body. You **recycle** this SAME iron all your life. You are going to DIE with the same iron your mom give you at birth .. slightly diluted with other iron but MOSTLY the same iron from .. mom. You NORMALLY attempt to CONTROL this .. storage AMOUNT of iron .. BY .. absorption. You attempt normally to upregulate or downregulate the PERCENTAGE of iron from each meal just to 'top up / off' this .. seven months worth of iron .. just to offset what you perspired out the day before.
This meat iron though is UNCONTROLLED and BUILDS ..combined with the fact this meat iron BINDS to OTHER ingested iron and causes it TOO to be upregulated so giving you a jolt of iron your greatgrandfather never saw because they didn't add it to the food.
That little kid in Africa is going to DIE of starvation LONG before he EVER depletes the iron his .. mom .. give him.
Evidenced by .. ?
Millions of dead malaria stricken children.. killed by iron supplementation.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Fire Chief - 31 Dec 2006 22:45 GMT numbnutz tom wrote:
> That little kid in Africa is going to DIE of starvation LONG before he > EVER depletes the iron his .. mom .. give him. So?????? He ain't gonna die of iron overload.
... numbnutz tom is a self-made boy and worships his creator.
brindal87@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2006 20:03 GMT More of his idiotic "snips" of articles, trying to prove iron is evil.
Now it causes multiple chemical sensitiivity.
I have MCS, but NOT porphyria. I don't have an "iron overload," as I have been a strict vegetarian since childhood.
<useless pieces of articles snipped>
Brindal
ironjustice - 01 Jan 2007 18:03 GMT >>brindal87@yahoo.com wrote: I have MCS, but NOT porphyria. I don't have an "iron overload," as I have been a strict vegetarian since childhood.<<
Iron overload is BELIEVED to be .. genetically .. linked TO .. porphyria ..
'They' are in FACT .. actively .. looking for the **genetic** link between porphyria cutanea tarda and iron overload.
Sooo .. " strict vegetarian" .. doesn't cover .. genetics ..
And since the aricle PROVIDED .. specifically .. mentions .. "looking for porphyria IN those with MCS .. " .. then .. again the fact you say you DON'T have .. porphyria .. doesn't AGAIN .. pertain .. because .. ?
MANY , MANY , MANY .. m-a-n-y .. researchers seem to disagree with .. YOU .. and AGREE .. with .. me ..
"Porphyria COMMONLY is found in those with .. multiple .. chemical .. sensitivity .. "
And again .. as the article provided .. states OUTRIGHT .. iron TRIGGERS .. porphyria ..
TRIGGERS .. T-R-I-G-G-G-E-R-S ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
brindal87@yahoo.com - 03 Jan 2007 17:14 GMT > And since the article PROVIDED .. specifically .. mentions .. "looking > for porphyria IN those with MCS .. " .. then .. again the fact you say [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "Porphyria COMMONLY is found in those with .. multiple .. chemical .. > sensitivity .. " I have been researching MCS for years, and this is the first I have heard about these "many" researchers looking for porphyria in MCS.
I am in many groups of people with MCS, and only porphyria has never been mentioned. Anemia, however, is a common problem.
"Multiple Chemical Sensitivity" is about chemicals, usually toxic chemicals, that some people can no longer tolerate. This inability to neutralize chemical exposures can be caused by one massive exposure, or by long term exposures to one or more chemicals. This disease is also called "environmental illness" or "chemical injury."
And iron has nothing to do with it, so get your facts straight before you go off on one of your rants.
And stop SHOUTING; it does not add to your credibility.
Brindal
ironjustice@aol.com - 04 Jan 2007 02:06 GMT >>brindal87@yahoo.com wrote: I have been researching MCS for years, and this is the first I have heard about these "many" researchers looking for porphyria in MCS. I am in many groups of people with MCS, and only porphyria has never been mentioned.<<
I guess you should hang out with .. other .. groups ..
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWI,RNWI:2003 -10,RNWI:en&q=Porphyrin+Metabolism+in+Chemically%2dSensitive+Patients
>> And iron has nothing to do with it, so get your facts straight before you go off on one of your rants.<<
I believe the article and researchers .. say .. it IS ..
>> And stop SHOUTING; it does not add to your credibility. <<
Cred .. ?
YOU talking to ME .. about .. cred ..
Heh .. heh ..
MY .. cred .. seems to be working very .. well ..
You haven't EVER run into porphyria in MCS .. ?
How many hits .. ?
Results 1 - 10 of about 239 for Porphyrin Metabolism in Chemically-Sensitive Patients.
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
ironjustice@aol.com - 04 Jan 2007 03:14 GMT brindal87@yahoo.com wrote: I have been researching MCS for years, and this is the first I have heard about these "many" researchers looking for porphyria in MCS. I am in many groups of people with MCS, and only porphyria has never been mentioned.<<
Cindy Duehring (1962-1999) former CIIN Vice-President received this alternative to the Nobel Prize in 1997 ... ciin.org/pages/06-tests.html
http://tinyurl.com/vn8h5
<<snip>>Disorders of Porphyrinopathy<<snip>>
THE PORPHYRIA CONNECTION
Then in 1994, testing showed that over 90% of MCS sufferers have developed a condition known as Disorders of Porphyrinopathy (an acquired form of the porphyrias). The porphyrias are a group of rare metabolic, enzyme deficiency disorders involving the production of heme (a component of blood) and liver and/or bone marrow damage and has many symptoms in common with MCS. The most significant symptom MCS shares with the porphyrias is chemical intolerance/sensitivity, and any estrogen mimicking chemical or drug can trigger an attack.
This estrogen connection may be one reason that females (human and animal) are more susceptible than males to metabolic disorders, time-dependent sensitization, and MCS.
Another may be butyrylcholinesterases. Plasma butyrylcholinesterases are scavenger enzymes responsible for removing toxins from the body. A Danish study found that women in their 30s and 40s are at an all-time low for the production of this enzyme, and a recent study on Gulf War veterans discovered that plasma butyrylcholinesterase deficiencies were playing a significant role in how people get poisoned.
Disorders of Porphyrinopathy are also showing up in people with chronic fatigue, fibromylagia, amalgam problems, and silicone implants. I believe that these metabolic problems will provide the tie that binds all of the chemically injured communities together.
http://www.earthisland.org/eijournal/spring98/sp98e_fe.htm
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Brindal - 04 Jan 2007 17:13 GMT > >> And iron has nothing to do with it, so get your facts straight before > you go off on one of your rants.<< [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > MY .. cred .. seems to be working very .. well .. You are well-known as a nutcase on many groups. You have no personal experience of these diseases, yet you blab on and on about an overload of iron causing everything under the sun.
Speaking of the sun, if you were to post that it was going to rise in the East tomorrow morning, most would check it out before believing you.
Now go away. You bother me.
Brindal
ironjustice@aol.com - 04 Jan 2007 18:36 GMT >>Brindal wrote:<< Meet .. mankybadger ..
He is a medical professional ..
He follows me around ..
I suspect he is also .. Simon ..
But that has to be confirmed ..
Posting history gives him away .. now ..
He is pssed because he doesn't .. know .. his science ..
Evidenced by my calling out the problem with Procrit .. eight months before him or his precious .. FDA ..
AND .. I .. even TOLD .. him .. eight months ahead .. and do you think he .. did anything // said anything .. ? .. to .. anybody .. ?
Lack of integrity ..
PROVEN .. by .. his falsification of medical studies AND evidenced again by his disregard for his .. fellow man .. BY .. ?
Not raising the alarm ..
He .. is .. pathetic ..
I believe he is beginning to .. understand .. that ..
Just a matter of .. time ..
Heh .. heh ..
Procrit increases death / kidney ... on dialysis, treated with PROCRIT(R) (Epoetin alfa) to ... and should be reported to the friggin cops .. ... Boston, MA, and associate professor, Harvard Medical School ... alt.support.diabetes - Apr 23 2006, 11:35 am by ironjustice@aol.com - 3 messages - 1 author
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http://tinyurl.com/ylkuwx
US FDA says reviewing J&J anemia drug study Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:24pm ET WASHINGTON, Nov 15 (Reuters) - U.S. regulators are reviewing a study showing kidney disease patients treated more aggressively with Johnson & Johnson's (JNJ.N: Quote, Profile, Research) anemia drug Procrit
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Manky Badger - 04 Jan 2007 18:50 GMT > Meet .. mankybadger .. Hello.
> He is a medical professional .. True
> He follows me around .. Untrue - "The ferrous fellow" has maligned *me* in other newsgroups. I once visited his home town, and offered to meet up with him. He immediately stopped posting. Suspended email account? Cowardice? I don't know. I would really like a frank discussion with "The ferrous fellow". I've offered it enough times.
> I suspect he is also .. Simon .. > But that has to be confirmed .. Simon who? You can call me Dave - everyone else does.
> Posting history gives him away .. now .. ??
> He is pissed because he doesn't .. know .. his science .. ?? us "Chartered Scientists" don't know nuffin !!
> Evidenced by my calling out the problem with Procrit .. eight months > before him or his precious .. FDA .. ??
> AND .. I .. even TOLD .. him .. eight months ahead .. and do you think > he .. did anything // said anything .. ? .. to .. anybody .. ? > > Lack of integrity .. Either that or that I don't take you seriously.
> PROVEN .. by .. his falsification of medical studies AND evidenced > again by his disregard for his .. fellow man .. BY .. ? > > Not raising the alarm .. If there was an alarm to raise, and I'm big enough to admit that I may be wrong, you may be right, any credibility your case may have had was destroyed by you yourself
> He .. is .. pathetic .. Possibly - but if so, I've learned to be so here from the master.
> I believe he is beginning to .. understand .. that .. > > Just a matter of .. time .. > > Heh .. heh .. I'll try yet again, Tom. Are you ready to engage in a serious discussion?
ironjustice@aol.com - 04 Jan 2007 19:03 GMT >>Manky Badger wrote: If there was an alarm to raise, and I'm big enough to admit that I may be wrong, you may be right, any credibility your case may have had was destroyed by you yourself<<
No .. you falsified medical studies ..
You weren't trying to .. **prove** .. nothing when you did that ..
You simply .. FALSIFIED .. medical studies IN .. medical newsgroups .. which are composed of patients and professionals ..
In EITHER of those .. two .. groups .. this is frowned upon ..
And might even be construed as .. criminal .. IF the group was .. moderated ..
>> I'll try yet again, Tom. Are you ready to engage in a serious discussion?<< Listen up .. again ..
YOU .. in my mind are a .. criminal ...
PROVEN .. by your falsification of medical studies .. AND your .. criminal neglect of your .. fellow .. man ..
Sooo .. either you are .. stupid .. and didn't UNDERSTAND .. the medical study WHEN .. I .. did .. 'raise the alarm' .. or you didn't CARE enough to .. attempt TO raise the alarm.
But your lack of .. caring .. is ONLY effective .. legally .. IF .. you didn't .. understand the article ..
Soo .. either way .. you are not on my .. level ..
Integrity wise .. or otherwise ..
Dckhd ..
So .. read .. my .. lips ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Manky Badger - 04 Jan 2007 19:43 GMT >>>Manky Badger wrote: If there was an alarm to raise, and I'm big enough to >>>admit that I may be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And might even be construed as .. criminal .. IF the group was .. > moderated .. ????? What on earth are you talking about.
ironjustice - 05 Jan 2007 03:04 GMT >>Manky Badger wrote:<< sniipped ..
How many alias' do you .. have .. ?
I count ten so far ..
goobe...@legumenet.com , goobe...@nutworld.com , out...@citynet.net ,out...@citynet.net , m...@toad-net.com ,babaw...@world.com , brinda...@yahoo.com , scotty_nos...@amnet.net.remove.au ,The Deerhunter no.spam@no.spam.ever , Manky Badger ,you.m...@be.joking ,
Heh .. heh ..
What part falsifying medical studies .. don't you understand .. ?
Serious .. charge ..
Speak to it ..
Or .. stay off my posts ..
YOU .. specifically .. altered medical studies ..
Explain that ..
How does that .. fit .. in your mind .. ?
Does that make you .. mentally .. ill .. ?
Are you actively working in the medical .. field .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Manky Badger - 05 Jan 2007 06:56 GMT >>>Manky Badger wrote:<< > sniipped .. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > scotty_nos...@amnet.net.remove.au ,The Deerhunter no.spam@no.spam.ever > , Manky Badger ,you.m...@be.joking , Sorry - none of the above are me. If you think they are, you are wrong. Something you seem to be good at.
> What part falsifying medical studies .. don't you understand .. ? > > Serious .. charge .. > > Speak to it .. I totally deny your charges. They are utterly without evidence. Something else you seem to be good at.
> Are you actively working in the medical .. field .. ? Yes - are you ?
Fire Chief - 05 Jan 2007 07:05 GMT numbnutz tom spewed these words:
> Or .. stay off my posts .. I'll tell you again, you don't own the internet!
You don't own any posts!
Start a blog of your own if you don't want people to post.
> Does that make you .. mentally .. ill .. ? You are the only person in these support groups who is mentally .. retarded.
> Are you actively working in the medical .. field .. ? That's a fair question. Are you actively working in the medical .. field?
... numbnutz tom's IQ is as bright as a 25 watt light bulb.
William R Thompson - 05 Jan 2007 07:16 GMT > numbnutz tom spewed these words:
>> Or .. stay off my posts ..
> I'll tell you again, you don't own the internet!
> You don't own any posts! What's this? Rusty finally gives some good advice and you speak meanly to him? It is a sane and sanitary thing to stay off Rusty's fence posts, because he and his dog constantly urinate on them . . . which explains a lot about Rusty's posts.
--Bill Thompson
Brindal - 05 Jan 2007 17:05 GMT > >>Manky Badger wrote:<< > sniipped .. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > brinda...@yahoo.com , Wrong again. "Brindal87@yahoo.com is mine, and mine alone.
<snip>
> Or .. stay off my posts .. Your posts??? Sorry, you don't own squat here.
<snip>
> Are you actively working in the medical .. field .. ? Are YOU??? Help us all if you are!
Nutcase.
Brindal
Manky Badger - 04 Jan 2007 19:46 GMT >>>Manky Badger wrote: If there was an alarm to raise, and I'm big enough to >>>admit that I may be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > And might even be construed as .. criminal .. IF the group was .. > moderated .. ????? What on earth are you talking about.
ironjustice - 05 Jan 2007 03:04 GMT >>Manky Badger wrote:<< snip
How many alias' do you .. have ..
I count nine so far ..
goobe...@legumenet.com , goobe...@nutworld.com , out...@citynet.net ,out...@citynet.net , m...@toad-net.com ,babaw...@world.com , brinda...@yahoo.com , scotty_nos...@amnet.net.remove.au ,The Deerhunter no.spam@no.spam.ever , Manky Badger ,you.m...@be.joking ,
Heh .. heh ..
What part falsifying medical studies .. don't you understand .. ?
Serious .. charge ..
Speak to it ..
Or .. stay off my posts ..
YOU .. specifically .. altered medical studies ..
Explain that ..
How does that .. fit .. in your mind .. ?
Does that make you .. mentally .. ill .. ?
Are you actively working in the medical .. field .. ?
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Fire Chief - 04 Jan 2007 22:11 GMT numbnutz tom wrote:
> No .. you falsified medical studies .. numbnutz is looking in a mirror again.
> PROVEN .. by your falsification of medical studies .. AND your .. > criminal neglect of your .. fellow .. man .. There he goes again, talking to himself in the mirror.
> Sooo .. either you are .. stupid .. and didn't UNDERSTAND .. Watch out folks, he's looking in that mirror again, talking to himself.
> Soo .. either way .. you are not on my .. level .. No one is on your level. We can't stoop that low.
> Man Is A Herbivore! Born with canine teeth to rip apart meat at dinner.
... numbnutz tom got lost in thought. It was unfamilar territory for him.
ironjustice@aol.com - 01 Jan 2007 18:42 GMT >>brindal87@yahoo.com wrote: More of his idiotic "snips" of articles, trying to prove iron is evil.<<
Like this one .. ? The RESEARCHERS .. "say" .. it ..
THEY say .. "LOOK! .. iron!" ..
<<snip>> chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to **cause** porphyria in susceptible individuals. <<snip>>
>> brindal87@yahoo.com wrote:Now it causes multiple chemical sensitiivity.<< You are right .. the researchers .. "say it" .. "LOOK!" .. "iron!" ..
You don't .. understand the RESEARCHERS .. r-e-s-e-a-r-c-h-e-r-s .. said it .. ?
I just placed the article ..
Is my .. name .. ON / in the .. article .. ?
<<snip>> chemicals, iron and ALA can act independently, but also together, to **cause** porphyria in susceptible individuals. <<snip>>
>> I have MCS, but NOT porphyria. << Well the researchers .. seem to believe .. testing FOR .. porphyrins .. the HALLMARK 'marker' OF .. porphyria .. IS .. "important" / IE: "test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** content in urine and stool samples."
Soooo .. your doctor couldn't be just another one of those doctors who couldn't find his arse with both hands ..
Naah ..
Multiple Chemical Sensitivitity (MCS)Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is the name given to a syndrome in which a ... test MCS patients for **increased porphyrin** content in urine and stool samples. ... www.ei-resource.org/mcs.asp - 87k - Dec 25, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages
>>brindal87@yahoo.com wrote:I don't have an "iron overload," as I have been a strict vegetarian since childhood.<<
Sooo .. since you are vegetarian .. you seem to think THAT somehow .. what .. ? .. eliminates you FROM the 'scenario' / herbivore hypothesis .. ?
**Genetic** iron overload has been linked to porphyria ..
Sooo .. the fact you are vegetarian .. doesn't in any way .. divert FROM the FACT .. increased iron .. TRIGGERS .. porphyria .. therefore .. triggers .. disease ..
Because .. ? .. genetic iron overload occurs with ANY .. food ..
Coupled with the fact .. birth control pills .. TRIGGER .. porphyria .. leads one to believe .. the iron loading EFFECT .. of .. birth control pills / {lack of menses raises iron levels] .. is .. paramount ....
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Fire Chief - 03 Jan 2007 17:54 GMT numbnutz tom wrote:
> Well the researchers .. seem to believe .. Name them. We dare you to name them.
... Of all vegans ever born, 100% are dead or will die.
Fire Chief - 03 Jan 2007 18:40 GMT numbnutz tom wrote:
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! MARK 14: 12-16 On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is saccrificed, His disciples said to Him, "Where do you want us to go and make the preparation for you to eat the Passover?" He sent 2 of his disciples, saying to them, "Go into the city and man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, "The Teacher asks, Where is my guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" He will show a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. So the disciples set out and went to the city and found everything as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover meal.
LUKE 22: 7-13 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover meal for us that we may eat it." They asked Him, "Where do you want us to make preparation?" "Listen," He told them, "When you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him into the house he enters and say to the owner of the house, "The Teacher asks you, "Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" He will show you a large room upstairs, already furnished. Make preparations for us there." So they went and found everthing as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover meal.
MATTHEW 14:15-21 When it was evening, the disciples came to Him and and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is late; send the crowds away so that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves." Jesus said to them, "They need not to away; you give them something to eat." They replied, "We have nothing here but 5 loaves and the 2 fish." And He said, "Bring them here to me." Then He ordered the crowds to sid down on the grass. Taking the 5 loaves and the 2 fish, he looked up to Heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. And all ate and were filled; and they took up what was left over of the broken pieces, 12 baskets full. And those who ate were about 5,000 men, besides women and children.
MARK 6:34-44 As He went ashore, He saw a great crowd, and he had compassion for them, because they were like sheep without a shephere; and He began to teach them many things. Whe it grew late, His disciples came to Him and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is now very late; send them away so that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy somthing for themselves to eat." But He answered them, "You give them something to eat." They said to Him, "Are we to go and buy 200 denarii worth of bread, and give it to them to eat?" And He said to them, "How many loaves have you? Go and see." When they found out, they said, "5 and 2 fish." Then He ordered them to get all the people to sit down in groups on the green grass. So they sat down in groups of hundereds and of fifties. Taking the 4 loaves and the 2 fish, He looked up to Heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to feed the people.; and He divided the 2 fish among them all. And all ate and were filled; and they took up 12 baskets full of broken pieces and of fish. Those who had eaten the loaves numbered 5,000 men.
LUKE 5:1-7 Once while Jesus was standing beside the lake of Gennesaret, and the crowd was pressing in on Him to hear the word of God, he saw 2 boats there at the shore of the lake; fishermen had gone out of them and were washing their nets. "He got into 1 of the boats, the 1 belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little way from the shore. The He sat down and taught the crowds from the boat. When He had finished speaking, He said to Simon, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch." Simon answered, "Master, we have worked all night long but have caugth nothing. Yet if you say so, I will let down the nets. When they had done this, they caught so many fish that their nets were beginning to break. So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both boats, so that they began to sink.
> http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Born with canine teeth to eat meat.
... P.E.T.A. ---- People Eating Tasty Animals
d'huit - 04 Jan 2007 16:57 GMT awwww chief, you shudda asked me. rusty rump didn't mean jesus of the bible. he meant jesus smith, down the road, was a vegetarian. ô¿ô
kate
numbnutz tom wrote:
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! MARK 14: 12-16 On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is saccrificed, His disciples said to Him, "Where do you want us to go and make the preparation for you to eat the Passover?" He sent 2 of his disciples, saying to them, "Go into the city and man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, "The Teacher asks, Where is my guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" He will show a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. So the disciples set out and went to the city and found everything as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover meal.
LUKE 22: 7-13 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover meal for us that we may eat it." They asked Him, "Where do you want us to make preparation?" "Listen," He told them, "When you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him into the house he enters and say to the owner of the house, "The Teacher asks you, "Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?" He will show you a large room upstairs, already furnished. Make preparations for us there." So they went and found everthing as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover meal.
MATTHEW 14:15-21 When it was evening, the disciples came to Him and and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is late; send the crowds away so that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves." Jesus said to them, "They need not to away; you give them something to eat." They replied, "We have nothing here but 5 loaves and the 2 fish." And He said, "Bring them here to me." Then He ordered the crowds to sid down on the grass. Taking the 5 loaves and the 2 fish, he looked up to Heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. And all ate and were filled; and they took up what was left over of the broken pieces, 12 baskets full. And those who ate were about 5,000 men, besides women and children.
MARK 6:34-44 As He went ashore, He saw a great crowd, and he had compassion for them, because they were like sheep without a shephere; and He began to teach them many things. Whe it grew late, His disciples came to Him and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is now very late; send them away so that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy somthing for themselves to eat." But He answered them, "You give them something to eat." They said to Him, "Are we to go and buy 200 denarii worth of bread, and give it to them to eat?" And He said to them, "How many loaves have you? Go and see." When they found out, they said, "5 and 2 fish." Then He ordered them to get all the people to sit down in groups on the green grass. So they sat down in groups of hundereds and of fifties. Taking the 4 loaves and the 2 fish, He looked up to Heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to feed the people.; and He divided the 2 fish among them all. And all ate and were filled; and they took up 12 baskets full of broken pieces and of fish. Those who had eaten the loaves numbered 5,000 men.
LUKE 5:1-7 Once while Jesus was standing beside the lake of Gennesaret, and the crowd was pressing in on Him to hear the word of God, he saw 2 boats there at the shore of the lake; fishermen had gone out of them and were washing their nets. "He got into 1 of the boats, the 1 belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little way from the shore. The He sat down and taught the crowds from the boat. When He had finished speaking, He said to Simon, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch." Simon answered, "Master, we have worked all night long but have caugth nothing. Yet if you say so, I will let down the nets. When they had done this, they caught so many fish that their nets were beginning to break. So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both boats, so that they began to sink.
Born with canine teeth to eat meat.
... P.E.T.A. ---- People Eating Tasty Animals
Fire Chief - 04 Jan 2007 17:55 GMT Kate wrote:
> awwww chief, you shudda asked me. rusty rump didn't mean jesus of > the bible. he meant jesus smith, down the road, was a vegetarian. ô¿ô Never thought of that. but wouldn't it be Jesus Gonzales or Jesus Morales?
... If we're supposed to be vegans, why are animals made of meat?
d'huit - 04 Jan 2007 19:27 GMT Kate wrote:
> awwww chief, you shudda asked me. rusty rump didn't mean jesus of > the bible. he meant jesus smith, down the road, was a vegetarian. ô¿ô Never thought of that. but wouldn't it be Jesus Gonzales or Jesus Morales?
not necessarily, chief. i actually went to junior high school back east with a kid named jesus montemeyer. kate
... If we're supposed to be vegans, why are animals made of meat?
ironjustice@aol.com - 04 Jan 2007 18:09 GMT >>Fire Chief wrote: Born with canine teeth to eat meat.<<
Crud snitpped ..
C-R-U-D ..
Dig .. ?
There .. is .. more to you attacking my posts .. than **medicine** ..
Isn't there ..
Keep your religious bullsht .. in the relgious .. groups ..
Dig .. ? Comprendez .. ? Unnerstand .. ?
>> ... P.E.T.A. ---- People Eating Tasty Animals<< Medicine .. boy .. understand .. ?
Keep on doing whatever your nice little .. health plan .. allows you to do ..
What IS it these days .. ?
Won't be too long before they have you on .. dillies .. there .. chief ..
Heh .. heh ..
Rolling in the clover .. then .. eh .. chief ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
SuperLupus@gmail.com - 04 Jan 2007 19:09 GMT Egads Chief! Looks Like you might have broken him. I had a CD player that skipped around like that... wasn't too long before we had to toss it.
Anja Länge - 04 Jan 2007 19:51 GMT > Keep your religious bullsht .. in the relgious .. groups ..
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! > http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com ROTFL
You made my day. Thanks a lot for a good laugh.
Cheers Anja
ironjustice - 05 Jan 2007 03:07 GMT >>Anja L?nge wrote:<< Meet .. anja .. she has a hard time with .. English ..
She seems to think it is .. appropriate .. to .. follow .. me ..
Sorta like .. another .. medical professional ..
They seem to have a .. problem .. with .. me ..
They seem to revert to .. stalking ..
Heh .. heh ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Anja Länge - 05 Jan 2007 06:39 GMT > She seems to think it is .. appropriate .. to .. follow .. me .. Poor little tucktuck... did you know the usenet is for everyone? Even for you? Which is a shame but that's another story. But since you have such a sweet sense of humor and enlighten our days with your funny posts, who cares?
> Sorta like .. another .. medical professional .. > > They seem to have a .. problem .. with .. me .. No, why should anyone? It's obvious, that you have no understanding of what you post and the singlemindedness of your eviliron posts is a psychological very interesting thing. Keep on... I enjoy it. One of my friends whom I've shown your posts supposed you are a fake. But again: who cares.
> They seem to revert to .. stalking .. No... just having a great deal of fun with stuff like
,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keep your religious bullsht .. in the relgious .. groups .. | | Jesus Was A Vegetarian! | http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com `---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anja
Manky Badger - 05 Jan 2007 19:29 GMT > No, why should anyone? It's obvious, that you have no understanding of > what you post and the singlemindedness of your eviliron posts is a > psychological very interesting thing. Keep on... I enjoy it. One of my > friends whom I've shown your posts supposed you are a fake. But again: who > cares. Until he pulled me into this one I've been leaving him alone for a while. But I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that your friend is correct. I don't think anyone can keep up the active level of parania his posts seem to exhibit without going completely cuckoo and getting locked up. I think he's a very clever troll who's had us fooled for years.
Fire Chief - 05 Jan 2007 20:35 GMT Anja L?nge wrote:
> One of my friends ... supposed you are a fake. His mother thought the same thing when he was hatched.
... Just because doctors have a name for numbnutz tom's ... condition doesn't mean they know what it is.
Fire Chief - 04 Jan 2007 22:16 GMT numbnutz tome wrote:
> Keep your religious bullsht .. in the relgious .. groups ..
> Jesus Was A Vegetarian! > http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com We'll make a deal. You do that and we will also.
Oh, wait. numbnutz can't comprehend that.
... numbnutz tom would give you a piece of his mind, but he's lost it.
ironjustice@aol.com - 06 Jan 2007 13:31 GMT numbnutz tome wrote:
Keep your religious bullsht .. in the relgious .. groups ..
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
We'll make a deal. You do that and we will also.
Oh, wait. numbnutz can't comprehend that.<<
It is called a .. sig line ...
You got a problem with my sigline .. ?
Heh .. heh ..
You got a problem with .. Shintoism .. ? You got a problem with .. Buddhism .. ? You got a problem with .. Jews .. ? You got a problem with .. me .. ?
Show me where THEY are "having more success in the medical field than anyone in history" .. and I might .. follow .. their work .. if .. I .. were .. sick ..
But .. you .. ?
You pull great hose ..
Which really ain't .. my .. 'cup of tea' .. lefty ..
But each his .. own .. eh .. chief ..
Heh .. heh ..
Who loves ya. Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Fire Chief - 06 Jan 2007 19:56 GMT numbnutz tom spewed this rubbish:
> You got a problem with my sigline .. ? That's THREE siglines you use, and "YES" we do have a problem with them, numbnutz.
> Which really ain't .. my .. 'cup of tea' .. lefty .. That's true. You seem to be using something stronger.
> Man Is A Herbivore! Born with canine teeth to rip apart and eat MEAT.
... numbnutz tom's mother should have kept the stork ... and threw out the baby.
Anja Länge - 06 Jan 2007 20:19 GMT > ... numbnutz tom's mother should have kept the stork > ... and threw out the baby. Hey... does the stork have a service center to handle reclamations?
Anja
d'huit - 08 Jan 2007 20:00 GMT Fire Chief wrote:
> ... numbnutz tom's mother should have kept the stork > ... and threw out the baby. Hey... does the stork have a service center to handle reclamations?
Anja
yes, anja, the stork does have a return line. but he keeps moving the end of the line to discrete locations, because he doesn't want rusty rump back.
kate (thinking . . . smart stork)
J - 06 Jan 2007 20:21 GMT > numbnutz tom spewed this rubbish: > > > You got a problem with my sigline .. ? > > That's THREE siglines you use, and "YES" > we do have a problem with them, numbnutz. please quit feeding the troll.
Fire Chief - 06 Jan 2007 23:48 GMT > please quit feeding the troll. Ah, numbnutz is too much fun tearing apart.
Besides, I don't think that there is anything wrong with calling a pompous, self-centered, self-righteous, egotistical, pea-brained, bag of sewer-wind a "pompous, self-centered, self-righteous, egotistical, pea-brained, bag of sewer-wind."
I sometimes believe that the whole purpose of "people" like numbnutz tom is simply to make everyone else as miserable as he is.
... numbnutz tom is proof that "shallow gene pool" ... should be a recognized diagnosis in psychiatry.
d'huit - 08 Jan 2007 20:03 GMT I sometimes believe that the whole purpose of "people" like numbnutz tom is simply to make everyone else as miserable as he is.
or . . . to make everyone else feel perfectly sane, by comparison.
kate
... numbnutz tom is proof that "shallow gene pool" ... should be a recognized diagnosis in psychiatry.
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