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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / November 2006Sleeping at night with all the aches and pains
Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now for the last two night my shoulders have been very painful. What do you all do with this type of problem? Rely on meds? Any tips you have for getting a good nights sleep? Sleepless in Ontario, Paul.. > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and > now for the last two night my shoulders have been very painful. > > What do you all do with this type of problem? Rely on meds? Any tips > you have for getting a good nights sleep? During the day I apply KETOPROFEN 10% two or three times. (Also available in 20% formula) Sometime between 6 and 8 in the evening I apply 3 (maximum) Lidoderm LIDOCAINE PATCH 5% wherever I feel they'll do the most good. They can be worn a maximum of 12 hours, so they do get me through the night. I may have one on the neck, one on the right or left ribs, and one in the groin (hip) or knee. It varies day to day, night to night. From the package: "Apply up to 3 patches at one time to cover the most painful area. Apply patches only once for up to 12 hours in a 24-hour period (12 hours on and 12 hours off)." ... A day without orange juice is like a day without vodka. > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now > for the last two night my shoulders have been very painful. Dear Paul: I have OA, FMS, RLS, CFS and Spinal Stenosis (2 surgeries so far for the SS). Nightime seems to be a painful time for a lot of us 'cause we are left with our pain ... in the dark ... when it is quiet and we can almost hear our heart beating ... we wait for the sandman to put us to sleep. I use pain medications, an antidepressant and a sleep aid for my symptoms daily. I have for a long time and there is no adverse reaction such as addiction for me. I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addictict for almost 27 years this December 13th (1979). I am cautious with meds and understand if they are used for the right reason they will help me. I also let my husband knoiw what I am taking for some emotional support. I still attend a 12 step program too. BTW - it is very good to ask and research about pain meds. The highly addictive ones I do stay away from. Not all doctors understand our concern so be careful - they are not gods. Find one that is openminded and will allow you to be part of your own treatment plan. Not sure if this helped any, Paul. My thoughts and hope are being sent out to you. Acceptance is so difficult at times when it come to our Arthritis aches and pains. It is a long process and I am still working through it. Warm Thoughts and Breezes, Meg from Orlando Hi Meg I am interested in your post about having SS. I have been diagnosed and waiting on a set date for my surgery. you say you have had 2 surgeries. Were they not successful? What do you do to ease that pain? I also have RLS, OA and neuropathy in my feet. It is always worse at night. I usually just stay up until I am so sleepy I fall asleep on my computer chair. take care! Janice | > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and | > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] | Warm Thoughts and Breezes, | Meg from Orlando > I have OA, FMS, RLS, CFS and Spinal Stenosis (2 surgeries so far for > the SS). I had lamenectomies (sp?) on my S1, L5, & L4 spine for my first surgery because my spinal stenosis (SS) began to choke my spinal cord. I got to a point that I couldn't walk. During my first surgery my orthopaedic surgeon had to scrape out the boney deposits inside my lower vertebrae. The surgery was a success. My rehabilitation took much longer than the "average joe". I was put in a corset type back brace and returned home after passing certain goals at the hospital. My healing process was very slow and I had to really take it easy, listen to my doctor, eat right, rest a lot and be p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e-n-t ... Rehab after surgeries is slow because I also am dealing with FMS/CFS. These illnesses seems to magnify and drag down my healing process. The second spinal surgery was for two ruptured disks between my S1, L5, L4. This happened because I also have Degenerative Disk Disease (DDD). I received two fusions in my lower spine. A ton of titanum was screwed into my back. After the $80,000+ suregry I went through the looooong rehab for about a year (just like the first surgery) again. My second surgery was needed like the first one and it was a success too. Each surgery required about one year to heal each time. Each one was needed and a sucess. I hope this helped answer some of your questions about spinal stenosis. It has been about 2 years since my last surgery and I am dealing with life much better now. I have learned so much about getting well. I think the spinal stenosis is starting to build up in my lower spine again because I flare or really hurt whenever I over-exert my back by lifting or moving heavy objects. I should know better but I screw up at times and pay for it with "911" chronic pain for a few days or a week. Warm Thoughts and Breezes, Meg Here is a product that has had life changing affects for both myself and wife. Myself with colitis and coronary artery disease and my wife with allergies and osteoporosis. There have also been excellent results with arthritis, fibromialgia, migraines, asthma etc. Want to let you know that we are users of the product and also sell the product. See attached stories!! http://www.reliv.com/cgi-bin/storiessearch/search.pl > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Paul.. Thank you all. I appreciate your advice. I have Hep C which has put me into Cirhosis of the liver and my symptoms of that also don't help much at night. I just looked up the Lipoderm patch product and one major warning on most sites was that it should be avoided with liver problems. Meg, may I ask what painkillers you do use? My Dr. has put me on everything from Lyraca to percocet... At the moment I'm taking nothing for my pain but would like to know some names to suggest to my Dr. Thanks again all. PS...sitting here with an ice pack on my shoulders watching my wife sleep like a baby.... Ahhh, I remember those days so well.. Paul > Meg, may I ask what painkillers you do use? My Dr. has put me on > everything from Lyraca to percocet... I would be extremely careful with meds since you have liver problems. I get a blood test evry 6 months for a liver profile just to make sure everything is running smoothly. So far so good. I am on Cymbalta 60 mg / day, Lyrica 300 mg / day (I read one can titrate or increase it up to 600 mg / day with a doctor's RX. I also take Ambien CR nightly because of my sleep disorders and lack of REM. Whenever I am in an awful flare up from my FMS/CFS I take Tramadol (Ultracet) o-c-c-s-s-i-o-n-a-l-l-y. Mixing it with an antidepressant (seritonin reuptake - SSRI) is very dangerous and not recommended according to the PDR, doctors or pharmacists. It can cause seizures and seritonin synergy. Big names ... blah-blah-blah. So I try not to use my Tramadol unless it is a "911" pain situation. The Ambien seems to work great for me and I don't wake up groggy like I used to. I tried Rozerem but it was useless so my doctor let me return to Ambien CR. I like the CR because it lasts longer than the regular doseage. 6-8 hours (CR) instead of 4 hours (reg.). Hope this answered your questions. As fas as Cirroshisis (sp?)... phew that is sad. Any med will be taxing in your liver so keep those blood test appointments like clock work and probably be checked up more than I am. Give you dear wife a pat on the head while she is sleeping, try a hot shower and a warm glass of milk or tea and head for bed soon. Staying on schedule helps me a lot. Whenever I take a nap during the day it shoots my regular bed time and sometimes I am up until the weeee hours of the morning. It is time for me to start looking for the Sandman. I got a busy day tomorrow with our monthly Arthritis Support Group Meeting in Clermont. www.arthritisgrp-slc.blogspot.com Goo-nite, Paul. Until Later - Meg (Temp. 70 degrees and humid. Our windows are open tonight and the crickets are chirping quietly. I can hardly hear the cars out on our highway nearby.) hi Paul I can certainly sympathize with you. I am up now because I cant sleep. I take my pain meds during the day and save my last one as late as I can so I can get a few hours of pain-free sleep. I have spinal stenosis, neuropathy from diabetes and oa in about all my joints. its the pits, having all this pain. wish I could be of more help. thank goodness I have a computer to kill some time with. Janice | Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and | legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Paul.. Well, write another night off. Everyone is up getting ready for their day and I already feel like I'm in a fog. Oh well, its snowed last night and it certainly is looking a lot like Christmas now...:)) God Bless us all, everyone! Hope all you "pain in the night" folk have a great day. I have to keep this in perspective and try my hardest just to take one day at a time and not look too far ahead. Bye for now. Paul Hi Paul, Having similar trouble with my back I can't give you any of my solutions due to your liver problems. Perhaps a lazyboy type chair for sleeping might help you, don't know. For myself, certain positions bring on or relieve my nerve involvement and my rls and other pain. Finding those positions and keeping them can be very challenging as I'm sure you are aware. Wish I could offer you something more tangible. Can the doc Rx a high end back brace to keep things from "settling" and putting pressure on nerves when you lie down? Grasping at straws here mind you. GaryZ > Well, write another night off. Everyone is up getting ready for their > day and I already feel like I'm in a fog. Oh well, its snowed last [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Paul > Well, write another night off. Everyone is up getting ready for their > day and I already feel like I'm in a fog. Oh well, its snowed last [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Paul This is how a caring group of people share their night,,, share their pain,,,, share their thoughts of what their life has become.... More support will have to come from God because man can only do this much,,,, how much is this much???? Read the shared feelings,,,, understandings,,, of this thread. All of you are a blessing to this group of people in the world of the internet. May your sleep be refreshing,,,, may those you love understand your thoughts and need for painless sleep. I read your words and think how blessed my life is and I must be thankful for my blessings. Harv Hi, Paul, So sorry you aren't sleeping. Can't compare my situation to yours at all as I just have occasional synovitis and sciatica and T3's are all I seem to need. But I did find that getting a temperpedic mattress helped reduce pressure pain. Just got it at Costco a couple of months ago for less than I would have spent on a regular mattress. And a friend with more significant issues swears by her Sleep Number bed. Said her pain levels are much lower and she's sleeping better. Another thing I've done when it hurts a lot is a mind trick. It may sound goofy, but it has helped. YMMV - Lay very quietly, relaxed, deep breathing. Then imagine the places where it hurts radiating the pain out of the body as if the pain were stored in a battery or well or other container and you are drawing out what is stored there, getting rid of it by making it radiate away. Then imagine the batteries emptying and using up all the stored pain and everything subsiding because there is no more energy to power the pain. I even imagine a red glow dimming to darkness. Very mind over matter, but it has gotten me to sleep (though sometimes my dreams are of pain, so who knows if it helped in the long run). Adelle > Well, write another night off. Everyone is up getting ready for their > day and I already feel like I'm in a fog. Oh well, its snowed last [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Paul Thanks again for all the helpful tips and advice. I do the meditation thing as much as I can..And to be honest sometimes it works... Making my mind go to good and wonderful things and concentrating on the positive things of life sometimes if I do it long enough I drop off for a while... I have thought about getting a nice Lazy-Boy recliner. My wife agrees that might be a very good alternative to tossing and turning in bed.. ;) Have a great day all. Paul. > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Paul.. By Crazy Leg syndrome did you mean restless legs or the creepy crawlies? If you did, you might try taking a good quality B Complex vitamin daily. Years ago, i went to the doctor for my restless legs, she recommended that I give the B Vitamins a try. It works for me--cheap and effective. I do take pain meds- 24 hrs a day along w/muscle relaxers, etc. Most importantly, I've made my bed a place that doesn't cause me pain. I have a uncrushable baffled featherbed and a visco-elastic mattress topper. Also have amazing sheets- 500 ct which are great! The visco-elastic (memory foam) topper has made the most difference for me... without it, every joint hurts like crazy... but with it, bed isn't so painful Nicole in CA  Signature3 of every 10 Americans Know Someone With Lupus Help find the cure. www.lupus.org > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Paul.. Paul, I am sorry for all your pain. Certainly we all have pain here...and all of it is pain and some the same and different. And truely my sentiments about everyone here is mirrored by what Harv said...These are wonderful caring friends all sharing and trying to help each other and my life is blessed because of each and every one of them. I have pain from OA, FM and DDD and psuedogout... So like I said we all have pain and some the same and at the same time different... MY pain also seems to wake me at night despite the fact that I am on high doses of muscle relaxers at night and tylenol pm which is something I am sure you cannot take with your liver problem...My legs and knees are my most problem areas at night. My feet hurt when I go to bed but my knees and legs wake me up. I will be dreaming that I am having to climb stairs or run away from something and the pain is excruciating and it will wake me... I am on Lortab 10 and percocet for breakthrough pain. Zanaflex at night to help me get deep restorative sleep...That is a joke. I am allowed to take up to 6 (24mg)...but I can only take 3(12mg) or I hallucinate. And while it does put me asleep, it doesn't keep me asleep. I take the Tylenol pm along with it and still that doesn't keep me asleep. I start waking up in about 3 hrs and dozing off and on the rest of the night...I think the pain keeps me awake. Even taking pain pills through the night doesn't help.... My husband has an old shoulder injury as well as asthma...He has one of those Craftmatic adjustable beds..and that helps him...You might have luck with one of those as then you could adjust the legs or raise the head.... Now that I have whined and cryed enough to fill a bucket... Welcome to our Group...Wish I had some better advice for you or should I say help... Praying that you do find some help Cindy > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Paul.. {{{{{{{Paul}}}}}}} DeeTee > Night time is my biggest enemy. The pain in my back and > legs(stenosis)always is amplified at night. Crazy leg syndrome, and now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Paul.. your problems are much more complicated than mine so I don't have much advice. I did think of a couple of things though - one is to take your pain meds as reasonable *throughout* the day. I find that if I wait until I really hurt then it is harder to get the pain under control. Keeping it knocked down somewhat throughout the day tends to mean less pain at night for me. also, be careful what you do with yourself in the evening. Avoid things that aggravate your body, even if you are feeling ok at the time. I find that the later in the day I do things, the more likely I am to lose sleep from pain. I figure it's the immobility and loss of control over movement that goes with sleeping that really messes me up. The most foolish thing I do is hand-intensive stuff all evening then wake up with screaming hands about 4 am. Maybe I'll learn one day. LOL what kind of pain is it? Does it seem to be nerve pain, muscle pain or a combination? If you can identify it, there might be something you can take that addresses that specific type of pain. I'm just thinking that muscle pain is a biggie for me overnight and with my RLS - without that late evening muscle relaxer, forget sleep. And besides the recliner, you might figure out if there's a position that is less uncomfortable for you in bed and kind of use pillows to keep yourself in that position. But now that I think more again, with shoulder pain being an issue the recliner is p[roabaly a good idea. I knond had a frozen shoulder, we didn't have a recliner, or room for one at the time, but he worked out a half-sitting position he could sleep in on the loveseat that allowed him the rest he couldn't get in bed. SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare HI Nann: The pain I get feels like its way down deep in my bones..yes, I do get the muscle aches and pains in my buttocks and legs, but in the shoulders it feels very deep. No matter which way I lay or sit seems to help much...It's a matter of riding it out till it subsides enough to try some sleep again. I see the Neurologist in January for the first time, I'm hoping he can help in some way. My Family Doctor doesn't seem to be very pro-active in finding me some kind of long term relief. Doctors in this area are so scarce thinking of gettting another one is out of the question. And what with my Hemophilia and Hep C its like he once told me, "You're between a rock and a hard place". That wasn't very comforting. This last week has been dramatically worse though. I haven't slept much at all in the last 4 nights and my days are dismal at best. The lyraca isn't working and the other sample the DR. gave(Myropex)doesn't do much at all either. I feel 85 instead of 52, but I"m sure most here feel the same way. Thank you for your post and concern. Paul |
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