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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / September 2006

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ALWAYS lock your car doors

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spodosaurus - 22 Sep 2006 13:45 GMT
Hi all,

    Many of us use walking aids and this makes us potential targets of
crime. For years I've been reinforcing safety habits for my wife to use,
such as looking behind her every so often when walking, being aware,
ALWAYS locking the car and house doors (even when gardenning outside),
keeping an eye on people who approach her and always have an escape
plan. Tonight something very strange happened and many of these points
were called into action and we escaped safely.
    After walking our old (and arthritic) dog tonight at a park/wildlife
wetland/dog-off-leash zone we had just pulled away from the curb and
were flagged down by a man coming out of this pitch black area of the
park with a rolled up newspaper (what was he reading where you can't
even see your feet in that area? No lights for the nocturnal native
animals). This is across from a residential area in a nice suburb and he
/looked/ normal (like he lived in that area) so we pulled over, but I
only rolled my window down part of the way to ask what was wrong. I said
'hey' but he said nothing, had no expression, made no sound, just tried
to pull up on our door handle (it pulls out, not up). Never any
expression, not even breathing heavilly enough to notice, no sound at
all. I told my wife to 'drive! get out of here!'. After ten years of
arguing about how she needs to lock the doors EVERY TIME she gets in the
car I was proven right (yet again :P).
    Maybe this was just a guy who /did/ live there, maybe it was just a guy
who was a little out of it (although he stepped over the low fence
without any sign of being intoxicated or anything like that), maybe
this, maybe that, who knows. I would hope this has all been a
misunderstanding. However, the fact is that we are safe and he couldn't
get into the car because the doors were locked.
    I am pretty distinctive with my crutches and other things. We're there
a lot (we take good care of our old pup). Maybe he expected me to be a
little slower than I was getting into the car and as he didn't have time
to get to me before I got in the vehicle he figured we probably wouldn't
have locked the doors and that flagging us down was his next best bet.
What's a cripple like me (I don't wear a shirt that says 'bench press:
300lbs') going to do if he gets into the car with a knife in that folded
over newspaper?
    Always lock, always have an exit plan, NEVER let anyone into your home
or car. A popular new method of carjacking/home-invasion is for one or
more men to use a woman to pretend to need help and ask to be let in.
Then, instead of locking the door behind her, she holds it open.
Sometimes she even has a bloody nose, and she's always frantic. It
works. I guess the old 'can I use your phone' (which was used to
devastating effect by a woman in the US news recently) or 'can I have
directions' isn't getting enough victims anymore. Do NOT open your
doors. Maybe it's genuine, maybe it isn't, but if you're not there to
call police and ambulance than who will be? Who will call them for you?
Phone emergency right away. Yell at a potential attacker to try and
scare them off or distract them. But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
no matter how much your gut tells you to help. You can't help if your dead.

Regards,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

vickie b. - 22 Sep 2006 16:02 GMT
Ari,  I'm so glad that you're OK!

I've always had the rule that a closed door was a locked door.  I live
in an urban area while my mother lives in a rural one.  Once while
visiting my mother while my kids were little, my kids found the door
open and unlocked.  They promptly locked the door and my mother out.
She was livid.  And I took a little while before I realized that my
kids did not know that an open door could be unlocked!

Take care,

VickieB.
spodosaurus - 22 Sep 2006 17:31 GMT
> Ari,  I'm so glad that you're OK!
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> She was livid.  And I took a little while before I realized that my
> kids did not know that an open door could be unlocked!

My wife did that to me once. I was in the backyard, and locking the back
door had become habit. Unfortunately, my keys were inside and she locked
the front door too before leaving...

> Take care,
>
> VickieB.

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

diclidophora@yahoo.co.uk - 22 Sep 2006 18:05 GMT
As usual, good advice Ari.

I resolved many moons ago never to give hitch hikers a lift, which has
now evolved into never give anybody a lift unless you know them very
well.
My wife always locks the car doors, especially to safeguard against
snatchers when stationery at traffic lights. She is very wise to do so.

Peter

> > Ari,  I'm so glad that you're OK!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
> http://www.marrow.org/
ladylove77 - 22 Sep 2006 19:22 GMT
Any time I get in or out of my car, the doors are locked immediately.  In my
carport, in my kids' diveways, anywhere!  And my house doors are always
locked.  That's why the medic had to come in a window the last time I
dislocated my hip!
Gwen

> As usual, good advice Ari.
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> http://www.abmdr.org.au/
>> http://www.marrow.org/
Squirrely - 22 Sep 2006 16:42 GMT
Oh Ari, this is a great message for you getting the word out there of how
dangerous it can be if  you are not careful.

I am so glad  you and your wife practice safe ways of getting around and
such. I am glad you made it out of there safely.

You are a good example to all of us. Thank you.

Signature

  Love and hugs Jo

   (\__/)  .~    ~. ))
  /O O  ./      .'
 {O__,   \    {
   / .  . )    \
   |-| '-' \    } ))      Warning: squirrels.
  .(   _(   )_.'
 '---.~_ _ _&

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Ari
Fire Chief - 22 Sep 2006 16:46 GMT
Ari wrote:

> Always lock, always have an exit plan,

I had the hardest time teaching Mary to back into a
parking space, so she could zooooooom out if such
an incident occurred.   She had a habit of pulling in
right up to a wall or similar barricade, which would
allow a carjacker/attacker to block her exit or slow
her escape if she had to back out.

... I'm not asleep.  I'm just waiting for windoze to load.
DeeTee and Bob Taggart - 22 Sep 2006 18:42 GMT
1- I'm really glad you're okay.
2- Since Bob and I have spent so many years in the "security" field, we're
always watching.
3- Even here in Ohio, where things seem a little slower, we always lock
first, trust later.

DeeTee

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Ari
Ginnie - 23 Sep 2006 08:26 GMT
So glad that your smarts have been ingrained, and you lock everything
by habit.  And very glad you and your wife are safe!

I've found out ~almost~ the hard way to lock all my house doors, put
pins in the sliding doors and windows, and have a locksmith come
in and make each new home break-in-proof.

The car is the same story -- I always lock my car doors, whether I'm
in or out of the car.  When I'm on the freeway at fairly high speeds,
I believe that a locked car door is going to help keep me IN my car,
just as a fastened seat belt will.

And, sad to say, but just driving around running errands, I keep the
car doors locked, and never open the sunroof.  Carjackers can get
at you through an open sunroof, as easily as through a door.

Ginnie    >^..^<
______________________________

> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>
> Ari
spodosaurus - 23 Sep 2006 09:13 GMT
> The car is the same story -- I always lock my car doors, whether I'm
> in or out of the car.  When I'm on the freeway at fairly high speeds,
> I believe that a locked car door is going to help keep me IN my car,
> just as a fastened seat belt will.

I'm glad you raised that point. People are often afraid of being trapped
in their cars after an accident if they lock. It's the same story for
why people don't wear seatbelts. The fact is, the odds of getting
seriously hurt without a seatbelt are astronomically higher than of
getting trapped by a properly worn safety belt! It's similar with
locking car doors: if your car is so mangled after an accident that you
can't get the door open, it's not going to be the lock that's holding
the door shut!

So many people lose arms, legs, and  too often children who have undone
their safety belts after a collision where the doors are not locked and
come open. It's rare for someone to survive being thrown from a vehicle
and emerge relatively unscathed and because it's sensational it
sometimes makes the news. This reinforces the belief that having an
unlocked door and no safety belt is actually safe! The media create a
great many false beliefs about safety (because good news doesn't sell,
only 'be afraid, be very afraid!' does...). There's nothing sensational
about a high speed car wreck where someone dies, that's expected. If
they'd had their doors locked they wouldn't have had their arm crushed
as it flailed outside the vehicle under the massive forces involved in a
car wreck - and the artery wouldn't have been severed, and they probably
would have survived the wreck...

Regards,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Henry - 23 Sep 2006 22:12 GMT
The locks on my car doors are programmed to lock automatically when the
car is in gear.

Henry
ladylove77 - 23 Sep 2006 22:29 GMT
So are mine, Henry, but I don't wait until I put it in gear.  I lock when I
get in and close the door.
Gwen

> The locks on my car doors are programmed to lock automatically when the
> car is in gear.
>
> Henry
Gaetan Michiels - 23 Sep 2006 23:26 GMT
Is that not dangerous? When you have an accident and/or your car is on fire,
you cannot escape!

Wil
Belgium

> So are mine, Henry, but I don't wait until I put it in gear.  I lock when
> I get in and close the door.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> Henry
ladylove77 - 24 Sep 2006 04:42 GMT
Wil, I am more afraid of a carjacker than I am of an accident or a fire.
Hopefully, I would be able to unlock the doors if either of those occurred.
You can get equipment now to cut your way out, or cut a seat belt that won't
open.
Gwen

> Is that not dangerous? When you have an accident and/or your car is on
> fire, you cannot escape!
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>>
>>> Henry
spodosaurus - 24 Sep 2006 04:45 GMT
> Is that not dangerous? When you have an accident and/or your car is on fire,
> you cannot escape!

See my post futher up the thread on precisely this topic. The chances of
you being seriously injured in an accident because a door comes open
during the collision and the aftermath, or becoming a victim of crime
because you failed to lock your doors, are massively higher than the
very slight risk that a door locking mechanism would keep you in your
vehicle after an accident. If your car is mangled to the point that the
doors won't open, it isn't the tiny locking mechanism that is keeping
them twisted shut! This is a myth perpetuated by television because it
plays on a deep animal fear that does not have much of any correlation
with reality. I have been in several serious accidents. My arms and legs
are still attached because my doors did not come open (I was also not
impaled by trees because my doors remained closed). I had no issues
exiting the vehicle afterwards: alive! This is reinforced by the
accident statistics, not just my experiences which are in perfect
allignment with the statistics. There are VERY few cases to the
contrary, but they do get a lot of airtime on the television or a lot of
'my friend's first cousin's girlfriend's older brother couldn't get out
of the car' story telling because, as I said above, they activate a deep
animal fear of being trapped.

Regards,

Ari

> Wil
> Belgium
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>>
>>>Henry

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

d'huit - 24 Sep 2006 02:46 GMT
i'm glad you were proven right, ari. but geesh, there have to be less
frightening ways of proving you're right!  glad you and your wife escaped
safely, guy.

"always remember your car can be a weapon, if necessary".  thank goodness i
remembered what my uncle taught me, when i was 15 1/2 and had just gotten my
driver's license.  i once had to threaten to use my sherman tank of a car
('57 pontiac super chief) as a battering ram, on my way home to san jose,
calif. from denver, colorado.   a strange man, in a restaurant parking lot
on the wrong side of the salt lake flats, insistantly kept pounding on my
locked car door window.  obviously drunk, he kept trying to coax me out of
my car and into his car (that had my car blocked into my parking spot),
filled with a few of his friends, to go to a "party" at some motel down the
road.  told him if his friends didn't move his car, i was going to go
through it.  when i put my car in reverse, stepped on the break and burned
some rubber in reverse, they peeled out of there, their passenger door
hanging open for the drunk to hop in.  i really would have used my car to go
through his car, if they hadn't left me alone.  but then, i was just crazy
enough for a 19 year old back then.<smile>

kate

Hi all,

Many of us use walking aids and this makes us potential targets of
crime. For years I've been reinforcing safety habits for my wife to use,
such as looking behind her every so often when walking, being aware,
ALWAYS locking the car and house doors (even when gardenning outside),
keeping an eye on people who approach her and always have an escape
plan. Tonight something very strange happened and many of these points
were called into action and we escaped safely.
After walking our old (and arthritic) dog tonight at a park/wildlife
wetland/dog-off-leash zone we had just pulled away from the curb and
were flagged down by a man coming out of this pitch black area of the
park with a rolled up newspaper (what was he reading where you can't
even see your feet in that area? No lights for the nocturnal native
animals). This is across from a residential area in a nice suburb and he
/looked/ normal (like he lived in that area) so we pulled over, but I
only rolled my window down part of the way to ask what was wrong. I said
'hey' but he said nothing, had no expression, made no sound, just tried
to pull up on our door handle (it pulls out, not up). Never any
expression, not even breathing heavilly enough to notice, no sound at
all. I told my wife to 'drive! get out of here!'. After ten years of
arguing about how she needs to lock the doors EVERY TIME she gets in the
car I was proven right (yet again :P).
Maybe this was just a guy who /did/ live there, maybe it was just a guy
who was a little out of it (although he stepped over the low fence
without any sign of being intoxicated or anything like that), maybe
this, maybe that, who knows. I would hope this has all been a
misunderstanding. However, the fact is that we are safe and he couldn't
get into the car because the doors were locked.
I am pretty distinctive with my crutches and other things. We're there
a lot (we take good care of our old pup). Maybe he expected me to be a
little slower than I was getting into the car and as he didn't have time
to get to me before I got in the vehicle he figured we probably wouldn't
have locked the doors and that flagging us down was his next best bet.
What's a cripple like me (I don't wear a shirt that says 'bench press:
300lbs') going to do if he gets into the car with a knife in that folded
over newspaper?
Always lock, always have an exit plan, NEVER let anyone into your home
or car. A popular new method of carjacking/home-invasion is for one or
more men to use a woman to pretend to need help and ask to be let in.
Then, instead of locking the door behind her, she holds it open.
Sometimes she even has a bloody nose, and she's always frantic. It
works. I guess the old 'can I use your phone' (which was used to
devastating effect by a woman in the US news recently) or 'can I have
directions' isn't getting enough victims anymore. Do NOT open your
doors. Maybe it's genuine, maybe it isn't, but if you're not there to
call police and ambulance than who will be? Who will call them for you?
Phone emergency right away. Yell at a potential attacker to try and
scare them off or distract them. But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
no matter how much your gut tells you to help. You can't help if your dead.

Regards,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Harvey R. Stone - 25 Sep 2006 00:04 GMT
> i'm glad you were proven right, ari. but geesh, there have to be less
> frightening ways of proving you're right!  glad you and your wife escaped
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> kate

Wow,,,, you did good Kate.   Sometimes a person has to be aggresssive to
remain safe in this world.
Harv
Bud - 24 Sep 2006 16:27 GMT
> But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,

Perhaps undesirable for many and impossible for some but I got a permit
and carry a concealed handgun at all times. I have a KelTec 3AT which is
very small and light and I pray never to need to use it but...! The
police in many areas provide training for those who are strangers to
firearms, are 'afraid of guns' or don't know the process of getting
permits. Of course in some states with anti-gun laws it's almost
impossible to obtain such. IMHO.

Bud
spodosaurus - 24 Sep 2006 17:41 GMT
>> But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Bud

I would carry if this country permitted it. However, I suspect that my
wife and I weren't shot for our vehicle because it's much more difficult
to get guns here now.

Regards,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Harvey R. Stone - 25 Sep 2006 00:06 GMT
>>> But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Ari

Only the good people have a problem getting them.

Harv
Thumper - 24 Sep 2006 20:46 GMT
>> But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Bud

And it almost insures your death if someone comes up to the window of
your car and shoves a gun in your face.  If you go for your gun
they'll blow you away.
Thumper
Bud - 24 Sep 2006 22:11 GMT
> And it almost insures your death if someone comes up to the window of
> your car and shoves a gun in your face.  If you go for your gun
> they'll blow you away.
> Thumper

LOL! If he knows that I'm going for my gun. Not gonna turn this into a
flame session but what would you do? Any action after being confronted
by an armed assailant may end in one's death. I could probably get a
shot or two off. I might try to rapidly drive away. I would NOT easily
let such an armed assailant get to any loved ones in the car! The
element of surprise is on your side as most attackers don't expect the
victim to be armed and respond. The majority of those of us who carry
concealed can access their weapon and fire it VERY quickly. Part of the
training is to know when and how to respond to such situations.
Your feelings in this matter are yours and many others have theirs. I'm
not preaching but just offering an alternative and additional method of
self protection. My own radical philosophy is if I am killed and can
take the killer with me then it's a safer world for someone else. Just
my take but to each his own. Wishing a safe journey for you today. ;-)

Bud
Bud - 24 Sep 2006 22:24 GMT
Oh darn! Almost forgot. Sword canes! Always at hand..so to speak. ;-)

Bud
Thumper - 25 Sep 2006 12:01 GMT
>> And it almost insures your death if someone comes up to the window of
>> your car and shoves a gun in your face.  If you go for your gun
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>LOL! If he knows that I'm going for my gun. Not gonna turn this into a
>flame session but what would you do?

You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
to happen.
Thumper
>Any action after being confronted
>by an armed assailant may end in one's death. I could probably get a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Bud
Bud - 25 Sep 2006 14:49 GMT
> You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
> every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
> to happen.
> Thumper

Yeah, yeah.
Harvey R. Stone - 25 Sep 2006 16:08 GMT
>> You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
>> every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
>> to happen.
>> Thumper
>
> Yeah, yeah.

It reminds me of the story from Florida.    The worst place in Florida to
get robbed or your car hi-jacked with all contents had a big turn around in
statistics when the people in the cars were allowed to carry weapons.....
The robberies stopped,,, none happened after that.   Most robbers are
cowards or they would all be doing banks where the real money is and where
so many go to jail for trying to do it.
Harv
spodosaurus - 25 Sep 2006 17:39 GMT
>>>You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
>>>every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> so many go to jail for trying to do it.
> Harv

That sounds like a popularly circulated myth. However, as you say, the
criminals responsible for these attacks are cowards. They are
opportunists and/or ambush predators. As such, you probably won't get a
chance to draw first, and drawing after they have you at the end of a
muzzle isn't going to turn out well for you. Like I said before, I would
carry if it were legal. As I also said: if the assailant had a gun, the
story might have been very different.

For property, hand it over. If they try and get you to go with them,
RUN, FIGHT, or BOTH (in any order possible). They only need you to go
with them to kill you or hurt you away from others who can help. Better
to risk injury in a semi-public or public place where police and
ambulance can be called (if necessary) than to go to /exactly/ where a
violent armed criminal wants you. They don't want others to notice them
in the act of committing a crime, and a gunshot or prominent knife/blood
makes that all but impossible for them.

Regards,

Ari

Signature

spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Harvey R. Stone - 25 Sep 2006 20:02 GMT
>>>>You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
>>>>every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> That sounds like a popularly circulated myth.

Sorry but not a myth and it was about a road near the airport out of Miami
and I can not remember the name and that is my fault but it not only
happened but is almost crime free today compared to what was taking place
after people rented cars out of that airport.

However, as you say, the
> criminals responsible for these attacks are cowards. They are opportunists
> and/or ambush predators. As such, you probably won't get a chance to draw
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> For property, hand it over.

and he was still shot twice.   You are at their mercy if you have a gun or
not until you can shoot him/her without being  shot.

If they try and get you to go with them,
> RUN, FIGHT, or BOTH (in any order possible). They only need you to go with
> them to kill you or hurt you away from others who can help. Better to risk
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> committing a crime, and a gunshot or prominent knife/blood makes that all
> but impossible for them.
That needed to be said.   RUN,,, Drive through a red light,,,,, what ever,,,
if they want you to go with them....  You will not survive.   Harv

> Regards,
>
> Ari
Thumper - 26 Sep 2006 02:46 GMT
>>>>>You wouldn't even see a car jacker coming.  If you go for your gun
>>>>>every time you see anyone around your car, you're a homicide waiting
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>happened but is almost crime free today compared to what was taking place
>after people rented cars out of that airport.

That's because after the German couple got carjacked and it made
international news, the police really cracked down in the area.  You
do remember that rental car companies taking the bumper stickers off
the rental cars that identified them as rental, don't you?  That are
is where all the airport rental car companies are located.  The
carjackers would wait down the street for the bumper sticker cars to
stop at a light.

Very few people renting cars at the airport arrive on a plane with a
gun.  The undercover police however do have guns.
Thumper

> However, as you say, the
>> criminals responsible for these attacks are cowards. They are opportunists
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>
>> Ari
Harvey R. Stone - 25 Sep 2006 00:13 GMT
>>> But ALWAYS keep yourself safe. Always,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> they'll blow you away.
> Thumper

That is true.   I used to work with a fellow that stopped at a stop sign
right infront of where we worked.   A crook walked up and stuck a gun in his
face.   He gave him his wallet, watch, rings and the crook even asked for
change and then he shot my friend twice down through the chest area.   My
friend lived and was back at work in about 3 months.
   But,,,, you are right,,,, if he had gone for a gun he might of been shot
in the head and I told him that he would of lived over that too because he
is soooo hard headed.   I have the feeling that the next person that  tries
that on him is going to get shot too.  So it goes.
Harv
Fire Chief - 26 Sep 2006 05:33 GMT
> And it almost insures your death if someone comes up to the window
> of your car and shoves a gun in your face.  If you go for your gun
> they'll blow you away.

And how is the swine going to know you're going for a gun
insteat of the wallet he demanded?

... I have a million dollare figure -- but it's all loose change.
 
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