Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / August 2006
Ankle (subtalar) pain/inflammation/Synnovectomy?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
angela - 15 Aug 2006 02:21 GMT Hi, I'm new to this group. I guess you could say I'm feeling a bit desperate which is why I decided to join. I've been having "mystery" ankle pain and swelling for a little over a year. Even though I have RA (diagnosed and been receiving treatment since 1997), I've been getting such conflicting and confusing "diagnoses" from different doctors about this problem. Rheumatologists have been saying they don't think it's the RA because no damage or anything is showing up in the ankle joint on the numerous MRIs I've had over the year. I've tried a podiatrist, orthopedic doctors, the Mayo Clinic (just was there last week and they were puzzled and sent me to physical therapy), physical therapy, cortisone shots, increased dose of prednisone..etc..etc. Today I got some devastating news - I went to see a very good and reputable foot and ankle orthopedic doctor who sees mainly patients who have arthritis (80 percent, he said). Looking at my last Mayo MRIs (the report) and new Xrays done today...he said that it IS the arthritis causing inflammation in the subtalar joint...and that basically my ankles will never go back to normal...and he was talking about having to do fusing down the line. He gave me a cortisone shot and said to see how that goes and to call him back in two weeks. I am so upset....I don't want to have to have my ankles fused. But this pain and inflammation has been ruining my life for the last year. I can barely be on my feet (I'm 27, btw). I have one joint that is already damaged from the RA - my right wrist. I had a synnovectomy done on it which helped but it was done way too late and now it is useless and constantly painful. When this ankle problem started it was my worst fear that the same thing was happening. And now....now...I finally find out what the problem is? Anyway..I'm getting off-topic here but I'm really upset, of course. So...just wondering....can synnovectomies be done on ankles? Do they work? I'm so scared to get my ankles fused...I don't want that at all.
Has anybody had a similar problem? I'm really worried.
Thanks for listening
Angela (Minneapolis, MN)
vickie b. - 15 Aug 2006 04:01 GMT (((((angela)))))
No real advice but I did want you to know that we're here to help and sometimes to just listen,
Vickie B>
angela - 15 Aug 2006 21:37 GMT Thanks for the nice message Vickie. I appreciate it
Angela
> (((((angela))))) > > No real advice but I did want you to know that we're here to help and > sometimes to just listen, > > Vickie B> debbie m - 15 Aug 2006 21:08 GMT Angela,
I'm so sorry I don't have any answers for you. I wanted you to know I read your post and know that you are upset with the news. Can you do research on the web about your different options?
Maybe someone will be along soon that can give you more direct answers to your questions. Glad you stopped by.
debbie m.
> Hi, > I'm new to this group. I guess you could say I'm feeling a bit [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Angela > (Minneapolis, MN) angela - 15 Aug 2006 21:36 GMT Hi Debbie, Thanks for the message and the support. Everything is up in the air now..I don't know what to do and I am fearing the worst. :(
thanks Angela
> Angela, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Angela > > (Minneapolis, MN) Jan O'Keeffe - 15 Aug 2006 21:52 GMT Angela: I was kind of at the same place about 15 yrs. ago. I finally ended up wearing AirCast braces for about 4 years and my ankles self-fused and I really do quite well. Remicade helped the most (plus 2 total knee replacements). Don't give up--you can have good days again. Jan O'
> Hi, > I'm new to this group. I guess you could say I'm feeling a bit [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Angela > (Minneapolis, MN) Diane - 16 Aug 2006 03:52 GMT angela, i feel for you! my left ankle is my biggest problem, and i had problems with it in my early twenties but wasn't diagnosed until i was 45 (now 46). it was where it (RA) all started. i had significant pronation in my feet since childhood. my left foot turned in. so when arthritis hit strong and eventually did its erosion thing, many of my joints in my foot and ankle auto-fused (fused on their own from bone on bone), but in the pronated position. this is a major drag, and i always have pain and inflammation. now the following is just a guess on my part and something to check out with your doc--if your foot and ankle are in a normal position, what if you had a brace made (they're really not too ugly; i have one--but then i'm also not 27 and i don't care much any more. . . ) and wore it so that if your ankle worsens to the point of auto fusing, it will fuse on its own in the correct position. voila! no surgery. meanwhile get cortisone shots to control the pain.
just reading over what i wrote, i think it's an unorthodox idea and probably a bad one. =:-0
diane
angela - 17 Aug 2006 15:33 GMT Hi Thanks for writing. However I don't want mine fusing at all!! I want them better and normal... :(
> angela, i feel for you! my left ankle is my biggest problem, and i had > problems with it in my early twenties but wasn't diagnosed until i was [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > diane Harvey R. Stone - 17 Aug 2006 18:01 GMT > Hi > Thanks for writing. However I don't want mine fusing at all!! I want > them better and normal... :( and it is most understanding for you to feel that way,,,,,,, but,,,,,,, what is the best thing for you to do when you accept what is with your ankles?
Harv
>> angela, i feel for you! my left ankle is my biggest problem, and i had >> problems with it in my early twenties but wasn't diagnosed until i was [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> diane johnie - 18 Aug 2006 21:19 GMT > Hi > Thanks for writing. However I don't want mine fusing at all!! I want > them better and normal... :( angela, i have a couple of fused joints and i wish they werent but accepting the problem is critical for finding the best long term solution. With the ankle the last thing you want is for it to self fuse in an awkward position. Finding the right brace and using it religously is the key. It takes a good combination of RD and PT to pull this off. I am now having to decide whether to allow my ankle to auto fuse or get it done surgically. I will probably go with the surgery as that seems to work better for my joints and it takes all the guesswork out of it. After 30+years of dealing with this stuff it should get easier to accept and adjust but guess what. It doesn't. I still want all my beat up old joints to go back to normal. I don't want to be an ol' gimp but i am what i am and i try to keep a sense of humor and some perspective about it. All you have to do is look up and there will be lots of folks with a lot more problems than you and i will ever see. Hang in there and good luck with the ankle.
high desert healthy ankle hugs, johnie
angela - 18 Aug 2006 21:45 GMT Well maybe things would be a little easier to accept when you are receiving the right treatment and care from doctors in the FIRST place instead of getting the run-around for over a year. Yeah, I'm pissed. I have the nagging fear and suspicion that my ankles could have gotten better by now if diagnosed correctly A YEAR AGO. So no, acceptance is not easy in this circumstance. And no I don't want anything fused. And I have plenty sense of humor. I came on here asking for helpful advice not morale boosting techniques. I don't know and can't know what you've gone though and you can't do the same regarding my life either.
> > Hi > > Thanks for writing. However I don't want mine fusing at all!! I want [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > high desert healthy ankle hugs, > johnie johnie - 18 Aug 2006 22:51 GMT geez, all i did was try to offer a sympathetic po'int of view from someone who has been dealing with these stuff for nearly as long as you are old. SSOOORRRRY for trying to be friendly.
I assure you it wont happen again. Perhaps you are having a bad day. PERHAPS you are just a world class Bitch.
The only thing i offered you was advise. Here it is again in language better suited to your comprehension level. One thing you can take to the bank kiddo. If you dont get your head out of your a.s and act like an adult instead of a 3 year old re: your ankle problem your going to be on crutches the rest of your life instead of dealing with a slight variation in your normal gait. If your ankle is deteriotaing because of RA the only thing you can do is replace it or fuse it. Pissing and moaning and berating people trying to help you is only going to make you lonelier than you must already be.
good luck with that growing up stuff, johnie
> Well maybe things would be a little easier to accept when you are > receiving the right treatment and care from doctors in the FIRST place [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > high desert healthy ankle hugs, > > johnie Kelly - 19 Aug 2006 00:13 GMT Angela, johnie was trying to help and you jumped on him without knowing him. Not a great way to start.
I am not going to tell you what to do or how to feel. I will tell you that for me I have had to stop figuring out what happened in the past ( not I didn't say forgive and accept - that will come later maybe) and worry about the future. I am sure you don't want to have a fused joint but I am even more sure you don't want an abnormally positioned joint that has fused on its own. Trust me - I have had a reaction to one of my RA meds that has led to neurological damage and basically we are treating it as a spinal cord injury. That has led my gait to be off - consequently my balance is off, my hips are bad, my ankles and knees are bad. Many many joint replacements down the road if I am not careful. I would do anything to stop this but no stop in sight.
your choice - Johnie has dealt with many things along the way and he is one of the people I always stop to listen to. Hopefully you were just having a bad day and we have all had those. If not well - that leaves Johnie to offer his advice and well wishes and support and all he offers to the rest of us that always welcome it. His experiences (as well as his stories about his wonderful grandson) always help me immensely.
I wish you luck in your journey wherever it takes you. This disease takes away so much from all of us - don't let it win on everything. Fight to get a good doctor, physio, ot, whatever you need. But also try to find support and try not to let the crap get you down. Please don't let the disease win. Hopefully you will reread both your post and his and understand what I am saying. An apology might be needed - but maybe not.
Kelly in Canada
> geez, all i did was try to offer a sympathetic po'int of view from > someone who has been dealing with these stuff for nearly as long as you [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> > high desert healthy ankle hugs, >> > johnie johnie - 19 Aug 2006 04:05 GMT kelly, thank you for some very generous words. I just reread my second post and it actually looks like i might have been having a bad day also.>g< but im not really and my reaction might have been a bit too harsh and for that i apologize to the group and angela. I forget how difficult it is for young people trying to deal with a relatively new DX. I am really tired today. I just spent two days putting in my new well and am actually celebrating. I got cold clean deep water that doesnt have to be filtered. Its pumping at 440 feet. I havent had that kind of water since i was a kid drinking deep well water on the farm where i grew up. I do hurt everywhere today and start putting masonry up on monday. This house may be the last major project i ever take on but its going to get done and i will have a beautiful place to sit and stare for the few years it will take to recover.>g< It really has become a labor of love to create something i will be able to pass on to malcolm and acacia. More about them in an update thread i will start this weekend.
as always, big healing hugs from yer desert bud, johnie
> Angela, > johnie was trying to help and you jumped on him without knowing him. Not a [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > >> > high desert healthy ankle hugs, > >> > johnie Harvey R. Stone - 19 Aug 2006 13:51 GMT Well said and well done. Harv
> kelly, thank you for some very generous words. I just reread my second > post and it actually looks like i might have been having a bad day [quoted text clipped - 129 lines] >> >> > high desert healthy ankle hugs, >> >> > johnie Nann Bell - 19 Aug 2006 15:54 GMT congratulations on the well, johnie! I know what you mean - I grew up with well water, though not that deep being in north Florida with its shallow water table. My mom finally got city water a couple of years ago because, at 76 (then), she no longer wanted to deal with the hassles of no water when electrical outages shut down the pump system. It was good timing, just before all the trials of Florida's 4 hurricane season. But she filters her drinking water to get out the chlorine and still ahs well water for the yard (and water-to-air heat pump) so "good" water IS available. LOL
I hope you recover some before starting the masonry!
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
> I am really tired today. I just spent two days putting in my new well > and am actually celebrating. I got cold clean deep water that doesnt [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and acacia. More about them in an update thread i will start this > weekend. ladylove77 - 19 Aug 2006 22:01 GMT Enjoy that good water, Johnie. When we moved out from Atlanta in December 1968, the new house we bought had a shallow well. Originally it was fine, but soon began to have red in it that ruined white clothes. So we had to have a deep well put in, and I mean deep--was very expensive. One year later, the county extended their water line through our neighborhood, and we had no choice except to pay to get on it. That was really expensive water. We used it in the house and used the deep well to water the yards! Gwen
> congratulations on the well, johnie! I know what you mean - I grew up > with [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> and acacia. More about them in an update thread i will start this >> weekend. Kelly - 19 Aug 2006 16:33 GMT Hard to judge that line sometimes Johnie and that is the reason I wrote (I try to keep my stress level way down these days so don't always reply.) It is tough being young with this disease and we all want instant answers but lets face it the people here know there are no quick diagnosis in most cases and not always incredible doctors who can diagnose but then sometimes who can blame them. There are so many different diseases out there that mimic arthritis and so many patients. Anyhow off my soap box. I just wanted her as did you, not to have to do a fix up joint fuse when a straight one from the beginning might have done better.
Ah a good well - is there anything better? After putting up with horrible water at our cabin for several years we finally drilled 2 years ago and got clear, lovely tasting water again. It is wonderful! There is something about working and finishing something too. Pat is looking forward to fixing up our place on the lake for himself and our boys. They were up there 2 weeks ago clearing the pine beatle kill off our property (pretty much every tree - heartbreaking) and planning what they were going to do. I swear if I see one more timber beam cottage plan book! Anyhow they love it. Your place will be a lovely spot for Malcolm and Acacia but more important a great place to sit when you get a chance to sit now.
Take care of yourself Johnie. Think of you often.
Kelly
> kelly, thank you for some very generous words. I just reread my second > post and it actually looks like i might have been having a bad day [quoted text clipped - 129 lines] >> >> > high desert healthy ankle hugs, >> >> > johnie spodosaurus - 18 Aug 2006 04:24 GMT > Hi, > I'm new to this group. I guess you could say I'm feeling a bit [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Angela > (Minneapolis, MN) Regarding fusion, I've had that hanging over my head for some time now, too. I've managed with one crutch for a long time but now I use two and sometimes a power wheelchair, as I also have multiple joints involved. A synovectomy can only be done if the ankle has a physical anomoly that this procedure can work on. I take it that he didn't see an indication that this would be a viable procedure right now, but perhaps you can bring it up at your next appointment? He did say that fusion would be in the future, not immediate, so he may already be thinking of alternative options (perhaps including synovectomy).
Regards,
Ari
 Signature spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/
Nann Bell - 19 Aug 2006 15:54 GMT Hi Angela,
I'm late coming in on this because, in all honesty, your original post was quite difficult reading for me without any paragraph breaks. I waited until I'd learned more from the replies AND I got a day with less of a sinus headache to read it (thank goodness it *finally* rained last night and washed out some of the pollen!)
Several points: 1) I was also diagnosed in my late 20s, so I know how that feels - also have hypermobility and have had a lifetime of sprained ankles, thankfuly slowed by a wise orthopod's prescibed PT.
2) ankle synovectomies CAN be done, though success varies. We even know someone who had it done and later had a crescent moon tatooed over her crescent- shaped scar. So if the problem is still at just the inflammation level, it might help.
3) My dad had his ankle fused. Though he had RA, his ankle degeneration was the result of traumatic arthritis, resulting from a poorly healed, tiny bone in the ankle that broke in a bicycle accident. His ankle was bone on bone and the bone was wearing away by the time he decided to do it. As awful as it sounds, you DO have a some flexibility in the foot that helps you compensate for the fused ankle. Daddy was definitely able to walk much better after his fusion - in fact it drove him to get surgeries on some of his RA damaged joints so he could walk even better once the ankle pain was gone!
However, if you still have cartilege in you ankle, you shouldn't need a fusion yet and it is time for the inflammation to be treated agressively to avoid such a future. That is why you got the cortisone injection of course. Synovectomy may be another option, also a medication change to drive down your inflammation overall. You need to see your RD about that and make sure he has the records from your ankle specialist.
4) Modern medicine and all our modern diagnostic tricks often lead us to believe that doctors should be able to tell everything about our bodies. Unfortunately, it's not true. Any halfway decent doctor will catch a disease that presents in the classic way. A presentation that is not classic can confound even the best doctors.
Many of us here have or have had arthritis that does not present in classic ways. One person even had multiple joint surgeries and replacements before she finally got an RA diagnosis. I personally don't show the classic signs of inflammation in my bloodwork most of the time, even when my RDs can see that my joints are inflammmed. All of this is to say you may not have been mistreated all these years - it IS possible that your ankle has been presenting in ways that were confusing and either reached the point of being more apparent or you found yourself a superb diagnostician in the ankle specialist. Frankly, the judgment of your other doctors should be based on their overall treatment of you AND how they respond to the diagnostic information passed on to them by the ankle guy you just saw.
I know how upsetting and frustrating it is to see all of this happening to your body at such a young age. I, like some others here, had an arthritis ravaged parent to look at as my future picture when I was diagnosed 21 years ago. Luckily, modern medicines came along before I had that much damage and we've been able to hold off a lot a permanent damage. But I also had to learn to live with the limitations dictated by pain and fatigue. And I was blessed by meeting and marrying a man who helps with all of that and cheers me on.
Hang in there, you are doing the right thing in educating yourself to take control of your treatment and a good life is still possible, though perhaps not the one you envisioned a couple of years ago.
 Signature Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare
|
|
|