Newsgroups: alt.support.arthritis
From: "Frank Greenland"
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

I had rheumatoid arthritis and managed to get rid of
it.  It's 90% gone and will continue the next few
months.  What I used is simple--chicken stock.
Cook a whole chicken for eight hours on med-high
heat, cool overnight and remove fat, pour into ice
trays, freeze, then the cubes into zip lock bags.
Eat one or two cubes with breakfast and dinner.
If you don't believe it do a search for "the harvard
breakthrough" a study in 1993 that nobody seems to
talk about. Write back if you've tried this or have
any luck
Frank G

From: QuanYin9
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Frank,
First let me say welcome to the newsgroup.  I would
like to ask you some questions.  Did your diagnosis of
Rhematoid arthritis come from a rheumatologist?  Was
your RA factor postitive or negative?  What was your  
sed rate?  Did your doctor tell you what criteria he
used for your diagnosis?

I do believe that chicken stock might have helped you
and it doesn't appear you are selling anything but I
want to point out some things to you that you might  
not know and that are going to get you some less than
enthusiastic responses here.  First, there are many
kinds or arthritis (I'm sure you know that) and
probably as many triggers for RA as there are people
in this newsgroup (a slight exaggeration). People and
their doctors theorize about bacterial or viral
components and about genetics, about intestinal
permeability and food allergies, to name literally
just a few possibilities.  This is why different
treatments work for different people.  We have all
tried not just different meds but different home
remedies and alternative therapies including chicken  
collegen hydrogen peroxide baths, MSM, Acupuncture,
Chinese herbs, homeopathy, glucosamine, Yoga,
meditation, affirmations.  You name it, we've tried it
and often heatedly discussed it.  We have all read
every study (thanks to Kitty) and discussed that too.  
We are a fairly sophisticated group here.  We'd love  
to have you join us and tell us what has worked for
you but tell us more about your diagnosis, your
history (how long did you have diagnosed RA?), and  
what other things you are taking and have tried and
above all don't come here with the presuption that you
have a new idea that will cure all of us because you
simply don't.

Stick around-You'll like it here and you will get so
much valuable info and can let us know how your
treatment works over time.

Melinda

I am also assuming that you are new as I've never
seen you post before-If that is not the case, let me
apologize ahead of time.

From: "Alison"
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Well Frank, This sounds fantastic but unfortunately
I'm vegetarian.
Ally

From: johnie
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

sh.t, I missed one, whats the ratio used? >g<

johnie

From: QuanYin9
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Actually Johnie, it's one of my major tools!  I'll
call you and give you specific directions!

M

From: Kelly Cobb
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

What the hell is this?  Get a grip!!

Kellann

From: "Frank Greenland"
Date: 2000/11/18
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

OK, I didn't mean to start a rage.  I was just saying
what worked for me.
And I will admit, I come with a bias against doctors.  
That's from years of personal experience with problems
other than RA.
Actually, I have never had a specific diagnosis.  
What I do know is that the neurological problems that
I had, which were diagnosed (epilepsy, RSD, TMJ, and
on and on) after they were largely resolved, I was
left with every joint in my body hurting, in fact
everwhere there's cartilage; chest, throat, etc.  I
was physically weaker than now, my skin felt
unhealthy, etc.
And this was after the other problems largely went
away, and a long time after improving my diet and
exersize.
Maybe some people have tried stock, but I believe you
have to make the stock the right way for it to be
powerful enough to work.  Actually, I just bought an
iron meat grinder and I'm going to grind the bones and
cartilage to allow the stuff to dissolve better.  By
making it the right way I mean boiling it on high
enough temp for long enough for the solids to
dissolve  into liquid.  And you have to take a
sufficient amount on a regular basis.

I don't know, but I would guess free ranged chickens
would be better as well.
I don't know about all this positive factors and
other technical stuff.
Were I still suffering now, I would look into that.  
But as is, I won't.
Regarding how it helps, apparently there are two
ways.  One is something called oral tolerization.  For
some reason with people with RA the body begins to see
it's own cartilage as foreign and the immune system
goes after it.  But if cartilage etc. is a regular
part of your diet, over time your body begins to see
the incoming stuff as food, and the immune system
stops going after those types of molecules.  The
second way it helps is that it is basically raw
material, including different types of collagen, and  
different types of glucosamine and chondroitin, all of
which support joints.  I've also had osteo arthritis
in my neck and hand, and easily notice improvement  
there.

Again, anyone who's had success with this, or anyone
else, I'd love to hear from you
Frank G

From: Maybull2
Date: 2000/11/19
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

OH GOD!!!!!!!!!  Not another one!!!!!!

LOL  Review that process.  You boil a whole chicken
for 8 hrs.  Remove the fat.
Pour into ice cube trays.
Since when is boiled chicken a liquid?  What happens
to the bones and gristle and skin?

I know you mean well or I sincerely hope you do.  But
this is utterly ridiculous.

Have you tried this?  What makes you think you have
RA?

There are over 170 different diseases that fall under
the general heading of arthritis.  The only one, of
which I am aware, that is cureable at this time, is
the arthritis associated with Lyme disease.

If you have SCIENTIFIC information, that you would
like to share with us, we would be more than happy to
review it.  But please do not insult our intelligence
again, with this kind of claptrap.
Char

From: dan etcheto
Date: 2000/11/19
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Frank could another possibility be that you are
alergic to some food that you are not eating now?
Is this all you eat now?

From: "Jo Firey"
Date: 2000/11/19
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Thanks.  I'll just continue gnawing the stuff off the
ends of the chicken bones.

And its the gelatin in the bones that makes it like
that.
Gelatin has been touted as a cure for nearly
everything but research doesn't hold up.

Yes soup is good and good for you, but hardly a cure
for arthritis.  If it was that simple we'd all be out
running marathons.
--
Jo Firey

From: goodeye1
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 00:19:01 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 7:19 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Frank,
Did your rheumatologist indicate to you what it might
be in the chickan fat that triggered a remission/sure
for you?  It sound, possibly, like some nutrient--
perhaps from marrow that got into the fat during the  
boiling process--was a boost that your immune system
needed to correct its malfunction.

Congratulations on ridding yourself of this annoying
condition. :)

BTW, what does chicken fat taste like when its frozen
in cubes?  I think I'd have a difficult time keeping
it down--if you know what I mean. :|

From: "Frank Greenland"
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:33:16 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 8:33 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

You should read my previous posts.  As I said, I
haven't seen a rheumatologist.  I had a string of
neurological problems and it wasn't until they were
resolved (long story) that I knew they weren't causing
these symptoms.
I agree chicken fat is nasty. In fact it's
disgusting.  When you make the stock you let it sit in
the fridge overnight.  What happens is that the fat  
rises to the top and solidifies.  I break it off and
throw it away.  Use a paper towel to wipe the rim, a
big spoon to lightly skim the surface of any fat
that's left and what your left with is basically like
a loose jello.
When you heat it up it's not just sort of like the
liquid in chicken soup (the homemade kind), it is
exactly that.
It's watery, it looks like number one in the
bathroom, and it tastes great.  Email me and I'll
write up the current recipe or when I get it down
better I'll post it.
To answer your other question, it's the cartilage
(the whitish stuff at the ends of the bones) and the
marrow inside the bones that matters.
People have been making for soup, etc. for hundreds
of years
Tell me a drug that's got that kind of track record.  
They just found out the stuff they put in cough
medicine (PPA I think) gives people strokes.  They're  
going to take it off the market.  And that stuff's
been around for decades.
I just think if there is something that is known to
be harmless that at least for me has worked very well,
why not use it.

From: "Frank Greenland"  
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:47:02 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 8:47 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Correction.  The stock I make is exactly like the
liquid in chicken soup except that because of the
high temp and long cook time I think it is more
concentrated than 'normal' stock.  That's certainly an
important aspect when using it to combat problems.
I'm something of a cook (very amateur), but the stock
has got to be the tastiest thing I eat.

From: The Commander
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:50:55 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 8:50 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Damn, johnie, it's only been a few weeks or so since
we had that fellow try to sell H2O2 in here.  He
claimed it cured everything from herpes simplex to
gingivitis.  Personally I'm gonna sitck with Noni
Juice and Naugahide. <g>

Best,
Larry

From: Elf marge
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:10:51 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:10 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Hi Frank,  The doc that did that also is a pioneer
for Minocin. That might take care of the other 10%.
Thanks for sharing.
Marge

From: QuanYin9
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:19:01 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:19 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Larry,
I know there is usually a method to your madness but
have you seriously thought about those poor little
naugas and how they are going to be feeling hideless
in the winter-or perhaps you sunshine state people
just think that because you don't have winter that a
hideless nauga isn't going to suffer.  I beg you to  
cease and desist your abuse of the nauga before I have
to make this known to the media and Ralph Nader.

Yours in Solidarity with the hideless Nauga,

Melinda

From: The Commander
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:11:03 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:11 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Can you be a bit more specific, Frank.  How about
posting the URL for this site so we can visit it.  
Many here enjoy doing research, for one reason or
another, on alternative medical treatments for any of
the members of the arthritis family.

Best,
Larry
--

From: The Commander
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:43:02 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:43 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

QuanYin9 wrote:

In a word, to quote Gary Cooper, "Nope."

They can always turn on their furnace just like we do.

Not wanting to see you beg I was going to cease the
nauga bit but then you had to go and threaten me. Now
I'll have to think on it a bit.
Let me go brew some green tea and consider your
request.

Never knew you felt this strongly about it before.

Best,
Larry
--
"Save the Naugas... collect the whole set."

From: "Frank Greenland"
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:47:38 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:47 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Marge,
What doc do you mean.  Did he/she use chicken
cartilage or stock?  Stock is completely different.  
And I've never heard of studies on stock.
A quick search of minocin gave me this-- Minocin is
frequently prescribed in the treatment of Arthritis.
Do you know the LONG TERM side effects of Minocin?
....Abdomina bleeding, anemia, blurred vision.....
This is information you should have about the side
effects of Minocin....It came from
<http://opchealth.com/pycnogenol_opc/arthritis_minocin.
html>
Sounds kind of gnarly.
Thanks,
Frank

From: "Frank Greenland"
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:58:21 GMT
Local: Sun,Nov 19 2000 9:58 pm
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Larry,
  From alltheweb.com, I got this
http://www.cellrenew2000.com/harvard.htm
Note that I do not advocate buying that book.  
I don't have it myself.
If you ask me why there isn't more on this, I guess
because there aren't enough studies to draw press.  I
don't really know otherwise, but I can't say it's
exactly shocking.

From: The Commander
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 06:03:15 GMT
Local: Mon,Nov 20 2000 1:03 am
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Thanks, Frank.  That was interesting reading.  The
study used a highly purified Cologen II, where did you
find the "boiling a whole chicken" recipe?  Sounds a
bit like hit or miss.  No specified weight of the
chicken, no specified amount of water, no seasonings
mentioned yet you state it is "tasty."  So, if you
have a recipe, even one you've derived through trial
and error, how about sharing it.  To be honest, for 26
months of remission many here would do almost
anything.

Best,
Larry
--

From: QuanYin9
Date: 20 Nov 2000 06:44:21 GMT
Local: Mon,Nov 20 2000 1:44 am
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Larry,
On a serious note here, if you are going to try this,
I'd suggest using organic chicken.  It seems obvious
but sometimes it's the obvious that just slips away.
It certainly is one of those "what can it hurt to
try"  things but I would want my chicken antibiotic
and chemical free.

M

From: "Harvey R. Stone"
Date: 2000/11/20
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Stop, stop,  you people....  Got the wife coming in
here to check on me. LOLOL Nagas LOLOL(OOL
Harv

From: "Harvey R. Stone"
Date: 2000/11/20
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

Wow Frank,  Those side effects are kind of gnarly but
I didnt read where eating chicken soup would help
anything.  Maybe they are not on the cuting edge of
medicine like the people with the right recipe.  We
were going to have turkey for Thanksgiving.  Do you
think it will do as much good as your chicken soup????

Harv

From: DrSusan
Date: 2000/11/20
Subject: rheumatoid arthritis

On 20 Nov 2000 06:44:21 GMT, quany...@aol.com

(QuanYin9) wrote:

Are you so sure? Maybe its the antibiotics in the
chicken that do the trick!

DrSusan

... Famous Last Words #60:  "Well, would you like to try?"