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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Arthritis / July 2006Arthritis diets:
Hello folks: I would like to know if anyone in this group has had any luck with low inflammatory diets or other that have reduced the pain and stiffness associated with Arthritis? Sincerely Ray > Hello folks: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > snip What kind of arthritis, Raynaud?? I do know people who have had great success with diets-they have a type of arthritis called ankylosing spondylitis. Reason being is that it is theorized that AS is caused by a type of bacteria in the gut-it is a bacteria that we all have, but with AS patients who have a certain gene (HLA B27), this bacteria goes awry and mistakes our genes for invaders. This bacteria feeds on starch, therefore the AS diet is a starch free diet. Other than that, I know of no diets which have been conclusively shown to allieviate pain from arthritis. Char >>Hello folks: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > bacteria that we all have, but with AS patients who have a certain gene > (HLA B27), this bacteria goes awry and mistakes our genes for invaders. You may want to re-word that last sentence :-) > This bacteria feeds on starch, therefore the AS diet is a starch free > diet. > Other than that, I know of no diets which have been conclusively shown > to allieviate pain from arthritis. > Char  Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ > You may want to re-word that last sentence :-) OOPS!!! You're right!!!!!! Many people claim to have had success with the starch free diet. It has NOT been conclusively shown that it does work. I, for one, ain't givin up my pasta and garlic bread!!!! The arthritis has made me give up too much already! Good catch Ari!! Char >>You may want to re-word that last sentence :-) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Char Actually I was referring to the confusion regarding bacteria recognising our cells and attacking them...it's the immune system's responsibility to determine foreign or self when sampling surface antigens on cells. While there may be a relationship between bacterial infection or an incorrect immune response to a natural bacteria of the gut flora in conjunction with the hla-b27 marker, bacteria do not have any part in the 'recognition of self'. You sounded pretty confused with the statement: "this bacteria goes awry and mistakes our genes for invaders." Any bacteria that gets through the mucosa is an invader. Regards, Ari Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ it's the immune system's responsibility > to determine foreign or self You're right, I must've had fibro fog bad that day. Since I don't trust myself to write anything more about it, here's a quote from http://www.kickas.org/molecular_mimicry.shtml: The second theory is based on the idea that the HLA molecule shares molecular mimicry or similarity with some antigens present in infectious organisms and following exposure, disease occurs through reactive inflammation and immune mechanisms. Oh my gosh, what a loser!! I was just trying to help!!!! Char > Oh my gosh, what a loser!! Well, you can just f.ck right off then, can't you? > I was just trying to help!!!! As was I in pointing out your misconception/misinterpretation of the mechanism that may contribute to yours, and others', autoimmune diseases. Ari Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Wow, All I was saying was that I was a loser and screwed everything up trying to help someone. Where your attitude came from, I have no idea since I have no beef with you. Whatever Char You know I have nothing but respect for you , Ari....the more I'm thinking about it, I can't believe that you thought my loser statement was directed at you. Have I ever displayed a name calling, disrespectful attitude to anyone here, ever??? I'm sorry that you thought that statement was directed at you. Char > You know I have nothing but respect for you , Ari....the more I'm > thinking about it, I can't believe that you thought my loser statement [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Char I'm sorry I wrote what I did. I regretted it pretty much immediately. It does read like it was directed right at me though, especially with all those exclaimation points at the end of the next sentence. It seemed like you took exception to my correcting of a factual error, and I feel that having a good, factual, knowledge of one's condition makes a patient better able to make the critical decisions in patient care that sometimes the doctors don't get quite right. Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Ha! Believe it or not, I too, believe that having good, factual knowledge about one's disease is a good idea! I just can't seem to share that knowledge with anyone without messing everything up...especially lately. I've been having some bad problems (on top of the usual problems) with spasms and muscle cramps, most especially in my legs. You know those charley horses you sometimes get in the middle of the night?? My legs feel on the verge of that all day, every day. Lately they've been cramping severely all the time. My rheumy is sending me for PT and upped the dosage of the muscle relaxer that I usually take at bedtime. The result?? No relief from the cramps, but incredible fog,completely spacing out...that kind of thing. How are you doing? Char > Ha! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > feel on the verge of that all day, every day. Lately they've been > cramping severely all the time. I had something more severe with a painkiller patch (fentanyl I believe). With me it caused every muscle below the sternum to cramp...the consequences of that are unpleasant, especially with several fractures (about 6-10) in areas that the muscles were pulling on. What painkillers are you using? What're your blood counts like, particularly your haemoglobin levels? I found a bit of supplemental magnesium to be helpful with cramping. Something not quite so severe happened when they had me on diuretics (unneccessarilly, too, bloody registrars). > My rheumy is sending me for PT and > upped the dosage of the muscle relaxer that I usually take at bedtime. > The result?? No relief from the cramps, but incredible fog,completely > spacing out...that kind of thing. > How are you doing? In between when I began typing this and now it was discovered that at the least I have a femoral hernia...woohoo more surgery! Won't the gym be just that extra bit of fun tonight? :-/ > Char Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Hey, Char - I've been having lots of trouble with pain and cramping in my legs recently too. It eased up *slightly* with stretching all throughout the day, but I'd end up with severe cramping again if I did much of anything on my feet during the day. Then someone over on the fibro newsgroup was asking about muscle cramping. The recommendations that hit home with me were taking lots of B vitamins and lots of magnesium & zinc. I was already taking a multi-vitamin with minerals that had 100% of the RDA for those, but I was ready to try anything! So now I'm taking an additional B-100 daily and mag/zinc twice daily (at med times other than when I take the multi-vit). I can't say it was a miracle cure, my legs still ache like the dickens much of the time, but the cramps have pretty much ended - which means I'm sleeping better. YMMV, of course, but it mihgt be worth a try. That cramping up is nasty! SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare > Ha! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > How are you doing? > Char > Hey, Char - I've been having lots of trouble with pain and cramping in my > legs recently too. It eased up *slightly* with stretching all throughout the > day, but I'd end up with severe cramping again if I did much of anything on > my feet during the day. Thanks for the tip, Nann. Do the B vitamins have folic acid?? I am having trouble finding a B vitamin that I can take. Since I also take leucovorin with methotrexate, my doc freaked out when he found out I was also taking a B vitamin. (I take the leucovorin for serious hair loss, supposedly caused by the MTX. I guess leucovorin is some kind of folic acid derivative...so taking a vitamin with more folic acid in it interferes with the MTX). I have had several people tell me about magnesium and I am going to look into that. Since the B vitamin thing happened, I am scared to take anything without checking with the doc or the pharmacist first. The stretching does help, but not enough to alleviate the tightness, if you know what I mean. Ari, Every muscle below the sternum??? Yowwww. I don't know where my blood work stands right now, I just went Friday to have some more drawn and I'm waiting to hear. Two months ago, everything was fine...I just don't know what has happened. Are the fractures you have related to AS? How are you still able to exercise with fractures like that?? Are you supposed to be exercising with a femoral hernia?? Isn't that painful?? As far as painkillers, I am now only on ultram with an occasional vicodin. Two months ago, I was doing so well I didn't need either of them. I am also on Enbrel, mtx, sulfasalazine, Clinoril (NSAID), Soma(the aforementioned muscle relaxer, which I didn't take today, yet) and leucovorin. My doc has mentioned that patch (fentanyl??) But I think I'll pass on that, in light of what has happened with you. That must've been awful. Geez, good luck to you Ari...my complaints seem like nothing compared to what you have been going through. Char >>Hey, Char - I've been having lots of trouble with pain and cramping in my >>legs recently too. It eased up *slightly* with stretching all throughout the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I'm waiting to hear. Two months ago, everything was fine...I just don't > know what has happened. Are the fractures you have related to AS? They can't actually tell me what caused the fractures. Just another thing that shouldn't have happened and they've never seen it before blah blah blah. It wouldn't have progressed had they not been so dismissive, but now they're not dismissive anymore, so I guess that's a plus. Nine months walking on cracked feet with a cracked spine and tendons starting the process of ripping free taking bone surfaces with them... They know I'm stubborn, and they know I'm 99% correct (or on the right track)...if they pull this sh.t again, I might just go postal...which is probably why they won't. Good doctors, but sometimes you really have to check 'just to make sure' with me, because when I say something strange has happened I'm usually right. They also won't call it AS, rather an undifferentiated spondyloarthropathy because I'm b27 negative and it's affected the limbs and fingers and all that fun stuff, which AS usually doesn't do. We've had to cut my celebrex down, but we've added a new immunosuppressant (a long story that I'd love to gloat about but the people I'd be gloating at have saved my life a couple of times and thousands of other lives, so I'll skip it) for the aplastic anaemia so hopefully this will stop another flare from happenening (the cyclosporin alone didn't seem to even slow it down, but the pain was exacerbated by the fractures in other parts of the spine and limbs). > How > are you still able to exercise with fractures like that?? I had to have help once getting out of the gym the day I got my fourth or fifth stress fracture in my spine getting up off the MRI table that morning...where we found the three fractures in my left foot that I told them were there, their exact location (two of the metatarsals and the calcaneus, I even specified proximal or distal and for the calcaneus the orientation of the fracture...and I was right...again). I'm stubborn. I push through pain until the pain floors me then go back for another round. Unfortunately I have a very low pain threshhold and it's really really really unpleasant being so stubborn sometimes. Then again, it has saved my life twice, so I guess it all evens out. > Are you supposed to be exercising with a femoral hernia?? Probably not, but the femoral hernia seems to be a NEW pain than the one I went in there for. > Isn't that > painful?? Not as bad as I expected, but as I said above, I suspect I didn't have it when I went in. Are they supposed to make you push out your abdominal wall while holding your breath until your whole body starts shaking and you start passing out? Normally, I would NEVER do that because that CAUSES hernias, and I never ever have done that...even when I was lifting very very heavy weights: always breathing, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, often shallow, but never hurting myself like they had me do for almost half an hour today over and over again. So now I have a new pain, lower than the old pain which is still there. I think they still haven't found the cause of the pain that's as bad as the appendicitis I had not too long ago (2004, followed by appendectomy) but now I have this wonderful new pain and a limp in my 'good' leg! I should have learned by now that if a medical professional keeps telling you to do something that you suspect is totally moronic, you're just as moronic if you keep doing it! Hopefully this moronicity will wash off in afew days...preferably not after I have more abdominal surgery. > As far as painkillers, I am now only on ultram with an occasional > vicodin. Two months ago, I was doing so well I didn't need either of > them. I am also on Enbrel, mtx, sulfasalazine, Clinoril (NSAID), > Soma(the aforementioned muscle relaxer, which I didn't take today, yet) > and leucovorin. My doc has mentioned that patch (fentanyl??) But I > think I'll pass on that, in light of what has happened with you. My reaction is completely undocumented...what a surprise considering it happened to me. I've heard a lot of good things about fentanyl, which is why I took the chance of having another serious side effect that I get with other painkillers by taking it. I didn't get that one...well, not really, but I did get something all new. Don't I feel special! :-) > That > must've been awful. > Geez, good luck to you Ari...my complaints seem like nothing compared > to what you have been going through. Everyone's pain is their own, and while it may be productive to sometimes compare yourself with another person and say "okay, if they can do /that/ then I can try /this/" it's been my experience that people use those comparrisons in an unproductive way. This unproductive way leads them to feel bad about themselves and the very serious hardship that they struggle against all the time. Please don't minimise what /you/ are going through and it's unique effect(s) on /your/ life. You probably won't, but I thought I'd make sure just in case. Regards, Ari Signaturespammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor: http://www.abmdr.org.au/ http://www.marrow.org/ Oh yes, the B-100 does have folic acid/folate. Stay away from it if you have issues with taking folic acid. Some folks say B-12 alone helps them - I just figured I'd go with the other to cover more bases and because I don't have issues with any vitamins (yet!). But......... more folks seem to say that the mag/zinc combo helps them that the B vitamins anyway, so it might be worth trying the minerals alone. I was so desperate that I tried adding both at once, so I'm not really sure which is doing it! LOL When I feel better, I might try dropping the Bs and see what happens. I do indeed know what you mean about the stretching helping some but not relieving the tightness. It helped me with the extreme cramping up, but I still had to do some things differently. Still can't go up on my toes to dip cat food out of the container on top of the frig - gotta lift it down, if I go up on my toes my calves instantly cramp up for the whole length. sigh.... guess it's a good thing I don't dance any longer! walking & weeding the garden aggravate things enough as it is! SignatureNann remove the Gator cheer to email me Simply the thing I am shall make me live --- William Shakespeare >> Hey, Char - I've been having lots of trouble with pain and cramping in my >> legs recently too. It eased up *slightly* with stretching all throughout [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > stretching does help, but not enough to alleviate the tightness, if you > know what I mean. That doesn't make sense to me because I was told - no, ordered - to take folic acid with the MTX to prevent mouth sores. They are extremely painful and the RD told me when I get one to up my folic acid for a few days until it's gone. DeeTee >> Hey, Char - I've been having lots of trouble with pain and cramping in my >> legs recently too. It eased up *slightly* with stretching all throughout [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Char >That doesn't make sense to me because I was told - no, ordered - to take >folic acid with the MTX to prevent mouth sores. They are extremely painful >and the RD told me when I get one to up my folic acid for a few days until >it's gone. My RD prescribes 5 mg. of Folic Acid daily. I am on injectable MTX of 20 mg. per week. --- Joan Since I already take leucovorin, which is a folic acid derivative, I cannot take any more of folic acid, as it would interfere with how well the MTX works. Ari, >Nine >months walking on cracked feet with a cracked spine and tendons starting >the process of ripping free taking bone surfaces with them.. You know what, Ari? I can totally relate with this, because this is how my feet feel. Where about on the feet were you feeling the pain, or where were the fractures? When you say tendons are you referring to the achilles tendon, because, oh man, what you are describing sounds exactly like what I am feeling. >They also won't call it AS, rather an undifferentiated >spondyloarthropathy because I'm b27 negative and it's affected the limbs >and fingers and all that fun stuff, which AS usually doesn't do. I can also relate to this, same thing with me. Mine started in my wrists-both of them. According to the chart at spondylitis.org, this happens in only 5% of the spondys. What did you say in your post?? Don't I feel special?? I was first diagnosed with RA, then something like poly erosive arthritis-blah blah blah. I even have trouble with my thumbs, just had a steroid shot in my left one for the second time. >if a medical professional keeps telling you to >do something that you suspect is totally moronic, you're just as moronic >if you keep doing it Had this problem as well. Some moronic PT person having me do this excercises which hurt my neck so much. I know that excercise can cause pain and I can deal with that...but this was a searing horrid type of pain and I knew there was something wrong. When I discussed it with my rheumy (took me 3 to get a good one), he agreed that I should've been no where near that particular excercise! >Please don't minimise what >/you/ are going through and it's unique effect(s) on /your/ life. You >probably won't, but I thought I'd make sure just in case. It sure is hard to minimize something like spondyloarthropathy, isn't it? A perfectly normal person all of a sudden has pain everywhere, and their life changes. It's hard to minimize something like that. I totally respect your attitude and your strength. You underestimate yourself, Ari. Char that is what mine is - undifferentiated spondyloarthropathy with enthosopothy. In other words we don't have a friggin clue what to do with you. Luckily I also fit all requirement for seronegative RA so that is what we officially call it so I qualify for meds etc. It is a game you know! Right now the RA is flaring big time since I am not on any dmards (with the exception of 2.5 mg of mtx once a week second week on it - like it is going to do any good but we need mtx to get government funding eventually for rituxamub. Another game so we are trying to do it without lowering my wbc to tragic levels again. I sympathize with the exercises - you need to take things slowly especially if the RA is attacking the ligaments and tendons and sometimes break things down into smaller segments more times in the day. I do my exercises at different times in the day and break them into small groups - ie: while standing in line do ankle rotations or hip flexes or tightening and loosening my jaw muscles. shoulder shrugs at stop signs, pelvic tilts always in lineups and 3 reps of everything before getting out of bed and 3 reps of everything while in the tub or shower at night. This has had my physio raving at my strength despite my RA. It also helped me moving after the neuro attack. Now my husband is doing my exercises for me on my neuro leg because that leg was tightening up. Please note I said exercises - I vary whether they are stretches or isometric depending on whether I am in acute stage or subacute stage. The amount of reps always changes too but I never in a day miss out on the exercises so I don't lose range of motion. If painful I may only do 2 or so and only after icing the joint or using heat depending on the joint. There is an excellent book by Gwen Ellert on arthritis exercises. Will try to find a reference for it. It was my baseline and I still refer to it (when it is not packed in a box like it is now! I hate trying to sell a house). Anyhow off to accupuncture. Take care everyone. Kelly This is good to know, DeeTee, because I also take folic acid with MTX, but so far have no mouth sores. Nanny > That doesn't make sense to me because I was told - no, ordered - to take > folic acid with the MTX to prevent mouth sores. They are extremely painful [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> >> Char Char, I feel for you with the spasms and muscle cramps. Did they tell you to up your vitamins for cramping and such. I forget which ones it is. I think vit E and calcium and magnesium but my brain is gone so not sure those are the right ones. I know there are certain vitamins that will help with cramping but can't seem to pull them up right now. That must be horrible to live with. I am spacey too, so we can both be floating around in space. That 1/4 brain has gone to just mush again. SignatureLove and hugs Jo (\__/) .~ ~. )) /O O ./ .' {O__, \ { / . . ) \ |-| '-' \ } )) Warning: squirrels. .( _( )_.' '---.~_ _ _& > Ha! > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > How are you doing? > Char > Char, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I am spacey too, so we can both be floating around in space. That 1/4 brain > has gone to just mush again. Jo, how are you doing, my friend?? I was reading about your latest adventures...talk about horrible to live with! Did you get the tooth pulled? I surely hope that things start looking up for you soon. Someone here (I think!) told me about the magnesium and I'm going to check with the rheumy about it. I do take vitamin E...the only good recommendation my first rheumy made. I am going to PT now for the spasms and it is helping. Ultrasound, heat and massage, baby! I told the therapist I wanted to marry him. Unfortunately, it looks like the dealer where I am working is sold, but they aren't saying anything yet. If so, I will lose the great insurance coverage that I purchase through them and I won't be having Pt probably for the rest of my life, so I am sucking it up while I can. Thinking of you and sending my best wishes, Jo Char It didn't happen. See post I can't believe this or something like that. I am so glad the PT is working to help you out. I hope you don't lose your insurance and your job. That would be terrible. I hope things go well for you. Thinking of you alot and hope all works out and you get rid of those darn cramps and spasms. SignatureLove and hugs Jo (\__/) .~ ~. )) /O O ./ .' {O__, \ { / . . ) \ |-| '-' \ } )) Warning: squirrels. .( _( )_.' '---.~_ _ _& > Jo, how are you doing, my friend?? > I was reading about your latest adventures...talk about horrible to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thinking of you and sending my best wishes, Jo > Char > I, for one, ain't givin up my pasta and garlic bread!!!! > The arthritis has made me give up too much already! I also ain't giving up pasta, garlic bread, potatoes, etc.. I have the HLA marker (lab work in 1977), but at my age I'm just not going to give them up. ... Chaste: Why virgins run. |
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