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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2004

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turkey in the straw - 29 Jun 2004 05:50 GMT
We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who is
missing.He drove off in his car.For those of you who believe in the
power of prayer PLEASE pray for this mans safe return home.I just caught
the tail end of this so i don't have anymore info.
Jane Again - 01 Jul 2004 18:15 GMT
I am in Minnesota and unfortunately this is the first I've heard of it.  Did
they find the man?

Jane

> We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who is
> missing.He drove off in his car.For those of you who believe in the
> power of prayer PLEASE pray for this mans safe return home.I just caught
> the tail end of this so i don't have anymore info.
Tumbleweed - 01 Jul 2004 19:27 GMT
> > We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who is
> > missing.He drove off in his car.For those of you who believe in the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Jane

http://www.hibbingmn.com/placed/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=176349

I assume this is it..... and two months ago according to the site. And no
they didnt find him according to the site. Just as they didnt find (AFAIK)
the woman with Az who wandered off in DFW airport a few years back.

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Evelyn Ruut - 01 Jul 2004 20:18 GMT
> > > We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who is
> > > missing.He drove off in his car.For those of you who believe in the
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> they didnt find him according to the site. Just as they didnt find (AFAIK)
> the woman with Az who wandered off in DFW airport a few years back.

The article said he carried large amounts of cash with him.    Never a good
thing, as it can invite foul play if the wrong person sees it.   I am sad
for the family of that man.

Funny thing, but upon reading that article, I just remembered how shocked we
were to discover Ida was carrying a few hundred dollar bills in her little
bag just to go to the store near her house.

Peter had gone along with her to pick up a prescription, and she was
dropping money on the floor, while she was paying, as they were just lying
loose in that bag, (not in a wallet or anything).

He was horrified, since it was a bad neighborhood, and it could have drawn
the wrong elements towards her.   He even had bad dreams about it
afterwards.   Why she suddenly got into the habit of carrying so much money
with her, was a mystery to us.

Has anyone else noticed their loved one suddenly doing something like that?

I am guilty of often going out with too little actual cash at times!
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Songbird - 01 Jul 2004 20:38 GMT
Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
complicated>)?

I have just noticed this in my folks -- they used to write checks for
EVERYTHING and now it's pretty much cash and no one gets their CC number, to
the point they go buy money orders to avoid it.

Songbird

> > > > We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who
> is
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> I am guilty of often going out with too little actual cash at times!
Tumbleweed - 01 Jul 2004 21:01 GMT
Probably. Or maybe they have forgotten what debit cards, checks and credit
cards are?

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

> Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> >
> > I am guilty of often going out with too little actual cash at times!
Evelyn Ruut - 01 Jul 2004 22:38 GMT
> Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Songbird

If you write a check, you have to reconcile a bank statement.   You also
have to be able to remember where you wrote the checks.

If you use a credit card, you have to check the statement and remember where
you spent the money in order to know that the statement is correct.

Maybe this cash carrying thing is a way to cover or avoid dealing with
memory deficits?

I remember that when Ida first came to us, she would spend HOURS literally,
poring over her bankbook and her bills.  It was a source of total confusion
to her.    We discovered she had paid her property taxes twice, while
insisting it wasn't paid, wanting to pay it yet a third time.   (There were
numerous financial messes to be straightened out).

At first we just let her keep shuffling through those papers over and over
again, because it kept her busy and out of other things, but we ultimately
realized it had become a source of extreme anxiety to her and that she would
just worry and exhaust herself doing this.

Peter finally took all the bills and all the paperwork out of her room and
put it away.  When she would ask where it was, he said not to worry, that he
had everything put away safely.   Eventually she stopped asking and was at
long last able to relax and calm down.

I think it is important for family members to realize how STRESSFUL it is
for them in the beginning, when they are trying SO hard to cover their
deficits, and struggling to make sense of bills and paperwork and things
that we all take our ability to do easily, for granted.   It was torture for
Ida, and we couldn't understand it.

She would cry (to our eyes it was for nothing) and say "I worry so much" and
we would reply  "WHY are you worrying? ... you have nothing to worry about,
you have a home, you have money in the bank, you have a nice life and people
who care about you......"

We had no idea that there was this huge struggle going on with her trying
desperately to make sense of life, not realizing she had this illness......
She was trying to hang on for all she was worth.

I am glad we had the opportunity to make the last few years easier for her.

Songbird, you are doing a good thing for your parents too.   I assure you
that you won't regret this down the road a bit......

I think that is one of the biggest issues that we tend to overlook in the
early stages.... that it is scary and hard for them, trying to hang on with
their whole being, to a world that seems strange, difficult, unfamiliar, and
they are unable to understand the loss of skills and abilities that came as
second nature before.   They try to hide it, and avoidance of the things
that have suddenly become so complicated, is part of it.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

> > > > > We have an elderly man here in Minnesota with AD and diabetis(SP)who
> > is
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> >
> > I am guilty of often going out with too little actual cash at times!
Robert E. Lewis - 01 Jul 2004 22:56 GMT
> Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> EVERYTHING and now it's pretty much cash and no one gets their CC number, to
> the point they go buy money orders to avoid it.

I've noticed my father takes out more cash from the ATM than he used to, but
I think it's  because he doesn't get out to the ATM much anymore -- I drove
him by the bank Tuesday, and noticed this, not for the first time.  OTOH,
the cash he gets lasts a lot longer, because he's not out spending it
anywhere - we stopped and he bought some GOOD donuts (as opposed to the dry
donuts he bought a few days earlier <G>), and he has a twice-monthly lunch
(I'm driving him there, too).

Dad almost never writes checks by hand anymore, hasn't for years, because
his hand is so shaky. He was a computer programmer and years ago set up a
check-writing program that includes a scanned-in signature (unsafe, but it
is password-protected and he's only forgotten the password once).

--
Robert
Lee - 01 Jul 2004 23:30 GMT
think it must be fairly common ... my MIL did it too ...   huge sums of
cash -  and no matter how much she had she was always convinced she didn't
have any.  Still is, now that we're managing it for her.... but she's a lot
less stressed about it.....well, about everything except for her
cigarettes... she's constantly fussing and worrying about running out of
those. We joke that eventually we're going to be able to just tell her "you
quit last week, don't you remember?"  She's not there yet though

> Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> >
> > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Tumbleweed - 02 Jul 2004 07:18 GMT
> think it must be fairly common ... my MIL did it too ...   huge sums of
> cash -  and no matter how much she had she was always convinced she didn't
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> those. We joke that eventually we're going to be able to just tell her "you
> quit last week, don't you remember?"  She's not there yet though

Yes,
at the home my father is in one of the nurses told me that residents are
allowed to smoke (outside only) but few do because they forget they smoke.

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Dennis P. Harris - 02 Jul 2004 03:32 GMT
> Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
> complicated>)?

not only complicated, but the know that they can't overdraw cash,
and for someone who has never, ever before overdrawn their
account, multiple overdraws can be very embarassing.
Songbird - 02 Jul 2004 14:46 GMT
Thanks for the replies. This was just something I had not thought about as
an indicator. Dad keeps track of his finances on his computer, and I am
going over tomorrow to set it up after the move and start a new Microsoft
Money file for him. (It agitates him to scroll through all the old payees
such as utilities  he doesn't pay any more, so we're starting afresh.)  I
suspect I'll know more about how well he is coping with the finances after
that.

Songbird

> > Is this sudden predeliction for carrying large sums of cash a common
> > incident (maybe because debit cards, checks and credit cards seem too
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and for someone who has never, ever before overdrawn their
> account, multiple overdraws can be very embarassing.
Mary Gordon - 02 Jul 2004 22:00 GMT
The financial stuff was one of the first indicators with my MIL - we
were not really aware of it until about 6 months into the muddle -
mostly because at that time, we'd had no reason to wade into her
finances.  We used the same financial planner, who also did my MILs
taxes. My MIL kept quite meticulous books (part of her income came
from an estate trust she was executor of) and all of a sudden, her
ability to keep accurate records just went. She was making a college
try, and clearly very anxious, but very confused about what number
went where, and even adding and subtracting.

Not only did my MIL start having trouble with basic arithmatic, but
the whole mechanics of writing cheques and paying bills started to be
very challenging for her - after all, you have to put the amount in
both words and numbers, the correct date, etc. There were a lot of
cheques returned to her because she'd messed up filling out the cheque
- and also from paying the same bill more than once. She also started
to muddle up her bank accounts - depositing and withdrawing to the
wrong ones etc.

Around the same time, her ability to handle cash also deteriorated,
which is frightening if your loved one likes to carry large wads of
cash around. I think it had to do with the whole numeracy thing - she
just couldn't follow numbers or do basic math, never mind estimate
things in her head, so she was totally trusting when she handed over
money to a clerk - she wasn't sure how much she should expect to pay,
she wasn't sure how much she'd handed over, and she had no idea what
change she should get back.

Later on, when she was in the assisted living facility where the only
place you could spend money was the little tuck shop, we found that we
had to restrict pocket money, since if she had $50 in her purse, it
would disappear as fast as $5, with nothing to show for it, and no
explanation (i.e. Dolli, you just took out $50 three days ago - where
did it go? Did you buy something??? - and you could never get an
answer.

Mary G.
Songbird - 02 Jul 2004 22:41 GMT
<snip>> just couldn't follow numbers or do basic math, never mind estimate
> things in her head, so she was totally trusting when she handed over
> money to a clerk - she wasn't sure how much she should expect to pay,
> she wasn't sure how much she'd handed over, and she had no idea what
> change she should get back.

A friend of mine remained articulate for a good ways into his AD and
performed a wonderful service by going about to sr citizens centers, etc.
and talking about what it felt like to have AD. He often used the example of
going to a foreign country and simply having to hand over some currency and
trust the clerk to purchase something. He said he now had to do that in his
home country a well.

It's remarkable that he could do these talks. He could no longer reason well
enough to select his clothing, do household chores or drive, but he could
express himself well. It's like the information "input" didn't work any
more, but the "output" one did. Maybe it was because he was an Episcopal
priest before he became ill and was accustomed to public speaking.

The critical incident that got him help was when he wandered away from the
altar in the middle of the prayer of consecration during mass. One of his
servers followed him down the aisle, led him back to the altar and pointed
to the proper point in the prayer book. The priest took up the service as if
nothing had happened. The next day the bishop and the senior warden (top lay
person in his congregation) were at his wife's door at 9 am to say "How do
we help you and him?"

He entered the life eternal four years ago and I have no doubt he's talking
St. Peter's ear off.

Songbird
Mary Gordon - 01 Jul 2004 23:29 GMT
The sad part  is I bet his family had had some off hand discussions
about whether or not it was safe for him to drive, and concluded that
since nothing had happened yet, it was okay.

Thehardest  part of being a caregiver is that you always have to think
like  a pessimist - anticipate the next slide and take action BEFORE
you really think its necessary - i.e. if you wait for the definitive
cue thats its TIME,  you've often waited too long, and are facing a
disaster of some sort that you kick yourself over later.

In our case, it was a drug overdose. For others, its getting lost,
getting into a car accident, getting fleeced by a con man, setting the
kitchen on fire, flooding the bathroom ....!

Mary G.
Mary Gordon - 01 Jul 2004 23:30 GMT
The sad part  is I bet his family had had some off hand discussions
about whether or not it was safe for him to drive, and concluded that
since nothing had happened yet, it was okay.

Thehardest  part of being a caregiver is that you always have to think
like  a pessimist - anticipate the next slide and take action BEFORE
you really think its necessary - i.e. if you wait for the definitive
cue thats its TIME,  you've often waited too long, and are facing a
disaster of some sort that you kick yourself over later.

In our case, it was a drug overdose. For others, its getting lost,
getting into a car accident, getting fleeced by a con man, setting the
kitchen on fire, flooding the bathroom ....!

Mary G.
turkey in the straw - 02 Jul 2004 03:57 GMT
I am not sure if thats the man but this was just on the news this week.
turkey in the straw - 02 Jul 2004 04:02 GMT
After reading it yes that is him.
turkey in the straw - 02 Jul 2004 03:56 GMT
Someone said they did but i have not heard.By the way ,where in Mn.Barb
P.S, I am in Ham Lake.
Jane Again - 02 Jul 2004 15:55 GMT
> Someone said they did but i have not heard.By the way ,where in Mn.Barb
> P.S, I am in Ham Lake.

Very close to where I work, I work in Blaine, but I live in Maple Grove.

Jane
turkey in the straw - 03 Jul 2004 20:58 GMT
Jane,
Yes,very close.You have quite a drive to work then.
Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 14:41 GMT
> Jane,
> Yes,very close.You have quite a drive to work then.

Actually its only about 20 min drive opposite direction of rush hour so it
goes pretty fast with the new 610 highway.  I'm right on the border of Maple
Grove and Osseo.  Close to the fleet McDonalds on 85th and highway 81.

Jane
turkey in the straw - 03 Jul 2004 22:09 GMT
I guess i will share some of whats been going on here.My sister whom i
do get along with is POA for my mom.Me and my hubby live in my moms
house with her.The biggest issue is everyone including my POA sister
think they need to tell us how to live.
1)We have a fan on at night for the noise.We cannot sleep without it.A
Habit.Well they are always telling us we need to learn to conserve
energy.
2)We have 2 chow dogs.They seem to think there gonna bark all night and
the neighbors will complaine.
It's mostly just piddly crap.I think they think we are beneath them
cause they have money and we don't.We have been here a year and all
systems are working fine.They seem to think we are stupid.They chose us
as the most appropriate to live here.We gave up everything including my
life/I think i should be payed for what i am doing.My hubby works PT
becaus he takes us to our appts.I do not drive.So his income is very
small.We live on 900 dollars a month here.Thats including my moms
income.Yet they think we should be able to put away 200 of her money a
month.She gets 531 a month.I am wondering what you all think of my
getting paid here?Barb
Evelyn Ruut - 03 Jul 2004 23:31 GMT
> I guess i will share some of whats been going on here.My sister whom i
> do get along with is POA for my mom.Me and my hubby live in my moms
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> month.She gets 531 a month.I am wondering what you all think of my
> getting paid here?Barb

I absolutely think it is outrageous that your family is not paying you for
your caregiving efforts.   Everybody deserves to be paid for their work, and
just living there is not enough payment, since you are working too.
Granted, it would be less considering that housing was included, but you
still deserve some compensation.

I had a Chow Chow dog and he was a sweet, gentle, quiet dog.   The only time
he barked was when someone came to the door.   I have two German Shepherds
now, and they are much more noisy and active, but they sleep quietly all
night long.   Are your dogs different?   I personally believe that having
animals around a person with Alzheimers disease is a good thing and a
pleasure for them.   My two dogs loved Ida and she loved them.   Same with
our cats.

My sister also likes to sleep with a fan going.   Sleeping with a fan going
is a personal choice and fans don't use that much electricity anyway.   That
really shouldn't be anyones business but yours, especially since you are
caring for your mother there without pay.

If you said you were moving someplace else where you could have your
privacy, keep your dogs and run your fan to your hearts content, they would
be paying caregivers huge amounts of money.

I also think if you start an argument with them about it, it could get
unpleasant, so you might choose not to make a fuss about it, but they are
really naive about what it costs to care for someone at their home.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 04 Jul 2004 04:45 GMT
(Evelyn)I absolutely think it is outrageous that your family is not
paying you for your caregiving efforts.   Everybody deserves to be
paid for their work, and just living there is not enough payment, since
you are working too. Granted, it would be less considering that housing
was included, but you still deserve some compensation.

(Me)My family will not pay me so i told them i would go to the county.Of
course they think thats awful.Do you have any opinions on how much i
should recieve?


I had a Chow Chow dog and he was a sweet, gentle, quiet dog.   The
only time he barked was when someone came to the door.   I have two
German Shepherds now, and they are much more noisy and active, but they
sleep quietly all night long.   Are your dogs different?(Me)
No,one of them whined all night last time my sis and hubby were here.But
it was because her hubby was shooting off fire works.

  I personally believe that having animals around a person with
Alzheimers disease is a good thing and a pleasure for them.   My two
dogs loved Ida and she loved them.   Same with our cats.
(Me) You are soooo right.My mom has a small dog i swear she loves like a
child.

My sister also likes to sleep with a fan going.   Sleeping with a fan
going is a personal choice and fans don't use that much electricity
anyway.   That really shouldn't be anyones business but yours,
especially since you are caring for your mother there without pay.
(Me)They say because the wiring here is old we should use very little
electric or else it will go out.Been here a yr.all ready.

If you said you were moving someplace else where you could have your
privacy, keep your dogs and run your fan to your hearts content, they
would be paying caregivers huge amounts of money.
I also think if you start an argument with them about it, it could get
unpleasant, so you might choose not to make a fuss about it, but they
are really naive about what it costs to care for someone at their home.
(Me)  Too late Evelyn,I mentioned these things to my sis and she's
already mad.Oh well still doesn't change my mind on things.Thank
You,Barb
Evelyn Ruut - 04 Jul 2004 12:32 GMT
(Evelyn)I absolutely think it is outrageous that your family is not
paying you for your caregiving efforts. Everybody deserves to be
paid for their work, and just living there is not enough payment, since
you are working too. Granted, it would be less considering that housing
was included, but you still deserve some compensation.

(Me)My family will not pay me so i told them i would go to the county.Of
course they think thats awful.Do you have any opinions on how much i
should recieve?

Barb,

I think that if you got minimum wage for at least a certain amount of hours
per day, then it might be somewhat OK, considering it *is* your mother you
are working for and you do have a place to live included.   Considering she
is asleep at night, maybe no pay for the nights?.... (just my feeling on it)

Also you need to check in your area of the country what agencies are
charging as opposed to private pay caregivers.   Another thing is you
ABSOLUTELY must pay taxes on whatever you earn.   If you do not, your sister
could get into trouble about the fact someone is being paid to care for your
mom who isn't totally on the "up and up" about it.   So there are some fine
points involved.

ALSO your mother and sister should have set up some kind of caregiving
'contract' in advance of her becoming so ill, wherein her caregivers should
be paid for their efforts, like my mother in law did.

Your sister just doesn't want to deplete your mothers estate so there is
more to split up when she passes away.   She has no idea how stressful it
becomes when they are totally incontinent and unable to walk straight
anymore, falling down in the middle of the night.   ALL your mothers money
will end up going to a nursing home for her care when she reaches the point
where caring for her at home is at its most difficult anyway, and you will
have worked for nothing till that point.

Your sister should try caring for your mother, and she will soon discover
just how valuable your efforts really are.   Free rent is nice, but it isn't
enough to justify the emotional stress of caregiving, or the misery of
somebody else trying to mind your business and telling you how to live.

Remember I am nobody special.   So my opinion is just that.... somebody's
opinion.   The bottom line is that your mothers money will end up going for
her care.   Trying to preserve her "estate" while denying small comforts and
amenities, like having her real daughter caring for her in peace and
comfort, in the familiarity of her own home, is an exercise in futility.

About the dog.......

(Barb) one of them whined all night last time my sis and hubby were here.But
it was because her hubby was shooting off fire works.

My dogs would whine from that too.... also knowing there was a stranger in
the house might make them restless.    But they are quiet the rest of the
time?    My dogs sleep in our room at night, so they know to be quiet.

About the fan;

(Barb)They say because the wiring here is old we should use very little
electric or else it will go out.Been here a yr.all ready.

Tell her since it is probably the only thing running at night, there is no
danger of that.

(Barb)  Too late Evelyn,I mentioned these things to my sis and she's
already mad.Oh well still doesn't change my mind on things.Thank
You,Barb

Barb, you should have a totally quiet, NO anger,  sort of a sit-down talk
with your sister.   You need to live in peace, and she shouldn't deny you
your dogs or your fan, when you aren't even getting paid for your efforts.
Those are small things.   Your sister is being unreasonable in my opinion.

She is unaware of the realities of life when it comes to caregiving and
alzheimers.    She would be shocked beyond words if she knew what it would
really cost to hire people to care for your mom.   The free rent you get is
not much compared to what she would be paying professionals for their time,
24/7, and remember, your mother will indeed get worse.   That is just the
nature of the illness.

But then my opinion doesn't count for anything.
You have to solve this within your family and I wish you good luck.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 04 Jul 2004 14:55 GMT
Evelyn,
   Let me tell you your opinion does count and that is why i am asking
this group my questions.Because you are all caretakers and have all gone
through similar situations.I feel my moms estate is for her care.So why
save it for her kids.I could care less if i end up with any money after
her passing.And my mom asks me all the time if i get paid for helping
her.I would never ask for a dime if we were financially set here.Because
i feel kids shouldn't have to be paid for caring for there parents.I
won't even let my kids take money for doing something for there
grandparents.Grandparents always try to pay them.
    No ,my dogs rarely bark at night.Never thought of the fan thing.It
is a lot less running at night.Thanx,Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 15:09 GMT
"turkey in the straw"

(Me)My family will not pay me so i told them i would go to the county.Of
course they think thats awful.Do you have any opinions on how much i
should recieve?

Jane:  I found this web site for nursing home care from 2002.  It says the
average nursing home care is $61,320 a year here is the link.
http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?itemID=129166&extID=10032&oliID=213

Here is another site 2003 that says home care is paid on an average of $12
to $27 dollars per hour here is this web site.
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=19187

I had a Chow Chow dog and he was a sweet, gentle, quiet dog. The
only time he barked was when someone came to the door. I have two
German Shepherds now, and they are much more noisy and active, but they
sleep quietly all night long. Are your dogs different?(Me)
No,one of them whined all night last time my sis and hubby were here.But
it was because her hubby was shooting off fire works.

 I personally believe that having animals around a person with
Alzheimers disease is a good thing and a pleasure for them. My two
dogs loved Ida and she loved them. Same with our cats.
(Me) You are soooo right.My mom has a small dog i swear she loves like a
child.

My sister also likes to sleep with a fan going. Sleeping with a fan
going is a personal choice and fans don't use that much electricity
anyway. That really shouldn't be anyones business but yours,
especially since you are caring for your mother there without pay.
(Me)They say because the wiring here is old we should use very little
electric or else it will go out.Been here a yr.all ready.

Jane:  It will go out?  I work for a builder we built Accessible and Custom
homes.  I am an assitant to our customers with special needs.  Mostly the
physically handicapped.  We've built hundreds of home for many different
types of people all over the metro.  Here's the thing, with all the contact
I have with builder's and their subs, including the electrical sub, that is
something I have never heard of.  Your electric doesn't just go out.
Seriously if your sister is concerned with the aging wiring, she should be
hiring a electrician to check the wires, so there isn't a tradegedy, not
worry about money.  The little bit of money it takes to run that fan is
nothing compared to the lost lives should there be a fire.

Barb, is your mom receiving disability?  If so you could work for a home
health aid company on the condition that your only assignment is taking care
of your mom.  My ex-brother in law was able to do that for his nephew.  His
nephews parents wanted a home health care person it was only part time, but
between his parents and my ex-brother in law they were able to set it up
through this origination, that he would take care of the nephew during the
day and got paid for it.  I will see if I can find the organization.  It was
Anoka County so I think it was through them.

Jane
turkey in the straw - 04 Jul 2004 15:49 GMT
Thanx,Jane

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



turkey in the straw - 04 Jul 2004 15:53 GMT
My mom gets medical assistance from the county.What i don't like is if i
get paid through them they put a lien on her home.My sister is concerned
about that prolonging the sale of my moms home.Does anyone have any
info.on this?

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Evelyn Ruut - 04 Jul 2004 16:24 GMT
> My mom gets medical assistance from the county.What i don't like is if i
> get paid through them they put a lien on her home.My sister is concerned
> about that prolonging the sale of my moms home.Does anyone have any
> info.on this?

Barb,

I would definitely go for it if I were you!......What earthly GOOD is a
house to a person who has alzheimers?   They can't take care of it anymore
and they can't live alone anymore.   SO WHAT if they put a lien on the
house?   The house will get taken anyway if she goes into a nursing home.
That is the way it is.  Your sister is kidding herself and living in some
kind of La-La Land!

As for it "prolonging" the sale, that is nonsense.  That house will get sold
one way or another.   Your mother needs care and there are no guarantees how
long she will be able to be cared for at home.   She could conceivably need
full time professional nursing care within 3 or 4 years or even less in some
cases.

My mother in law had a perfectly good house too.   It was run into ruin
because she was too sick to properly care for it.   We left it empty for
over a year and a half after she came to live with us because we were so
busy caregiving, we couldn't even go and clean the place up or to think
about what to do next.

When we finally got around to selling it, we were astonished at the
disorganization and the mess.   It took us months to get it cleaned out,
emptied, junk hauled away and sold.   A lifetime in one house....She was
never going to use any of it again.

The only good a house is to an alzheimer's patient is that the house can be
sold and used to pay for professional nursing care to keep them comfortable
and happy for whatever remains of their cognitive years.   That is how my
mother in law's money went.   She was denied no comfort of any kind that we
could get her.   She is now in a nursing home 7 miles from my home and we
see her almost every day.   A house is of absolutely no use to her, nor has
it been for years.

If your mom goes into a nursing home, medicaid will take that house so fast
your sister's head will spin.   So she has two choices:   Either use the
money to pay for her care privately, (and keep meticulous records and pay
taxes etc.)  or else let it be taken by the gov't for her care in a nursing
home.... which will inevitably come.

If you ask me that is a no-brainer choice.  I would rather see family get
the money and care for the person as long as possible.   If your sister
doesn't like it, tell her to come and do the job herself.  It would be one
heck of a wakeup call.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

> It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
> killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
> vicious and inevitable consequences.
Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 17:36 GMT
> Barb,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> That is the way it is.  Your sister is kidding herself and living in some
> kind of La-La Land!

I couldnt agree more!  It's like my dad's car.  I have a 21 year old
immature brother.  My dad obviously can not drive anymore, so he suggested
selling the car.  To my older sister, brother and I we think that's a great
idea.  My dad doesnt need the car anymore, it's money that could be put to
good use, but my step mom hasn't sold it yet, cuz the little brother is
using it.  Even though both my little brother and step mom have a car.  My
dad even said, I don't want to find out (name of little brother) is using
the car sell it, we can use the money.  It's frustrating...

> As for it "prolonging" the sale, that is nonsense.  That house will get sold
> one way or another.   Your mother needs care and there are no guarantees how
> long she will be able to be cared for at home.   She could conceivably need
> full time professional nursing care within 3 or 4 years or even less in some
> cases.

It definately was less for us, but my father had other health issue's.

> My mother in law had a perfectly good house too.   It was run into ruin
> because she was too sick to properly care for it.   We left it empty for
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> doesn't like it, tell her to come and do the job herself.  It would be one
> heck of a wakeup call.

Good advice Evelyn!   We are trying to encourage my step mom to sell the
house, by a small town home, as she can not take care of the family home
anymore due to her heart problems.  My little brother is no help, even
though he still lives at home.  (that's a long story, he's the youngest,
spoiled and takes advantage of the folks.)  Anyway, the house is paid in
full, my step mom needs a place to live that's low to no exterior
maintenance, selling is what us kids want to see.  Not that the money from
the house will help with Dad, but helping to take care of a old house is a
stress we can't afford right now.  We'd rather put our energies into taking
care of Dad.  She doesn't want to sell, yet she'd like help with the house.
My sister being the oldest and the spokes person for my older brother and I,
told her,

"Mom, we love you, we love Dad, but we have families of our own, homes of
our own, bills of our own, jobs, you name it we've got it.  We do not have
the time or energy for weekly maintenance of your home and yard.  You have a
21 year old son who doesn't do crap, who lives there for nothing, yet you
ask him to do zero and expect us to drop everything.  We are stressed out
and stretched thin, helping with dad, going to hospitals, doctors
appointments, outings, etc.  There are times when our children don't see us,
was we are up before them and come home when they are in bed.   If you can
not maintain the home sell it, buy a town home, where there is no
maintenance, and put your energies and stress into Dad, not the damn house."

Ok not that she'll listen but now she knows how we feel.

Ok went off on a tangent <smile>

Jane
turkey in the straw - 04 Jul 2004 19:22 GMT
Sometimes you have to go off.My mom owns 40 acres.She has been offered
over a half million dollars.My sis is trying to sell now which we all
agree on.We would move with my mom.But for now i would like to be
payed.Which would put a lien on the money.I say"SO WHAT".BARB

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Evelyn Ruut - 04 Jul 2004 21:32 GMT
> Sometimes you have to go off.My mom owns 40 acres.She has been offered
> over a half million dollars.My sis is trying to sell now which we all
> agree on.We would move with my mom.But for now i would like to be
> payed.Which would put a lien on the money.I say"SO WHAT".BARB

Barb, the same rules apply.   Your sister can't legally transfer or take any
of that money from the property in any unaccountable way.   It is all
subject to being used for her care.

If she goes into a nursing home within the next three years, (which is quite
likely) that money is subject to being attached for her care.   Your sister
is really not up on elder law, is she?   She really needs to talk with an
elder law attorney, and BADLY!

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Evelyn Ruut - 04 Jul 2004 21:38 GMT
> Good advice Evelyn!   We are trying to encourage my step mom to sell the
> house, by a small town home, as she can not take care of the family home
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Jane

Hi Jane,

Rant understood!   My dad is 91 and is starting to have difficulty taking
care of his property.   He gets enraged when nobody wants to come down to
his house and mow his lawn.  Meanwhile I should mention he has more than
enough money to pay a lawn guy to come and mow it on a regular basis.   He
is loath to part with that money for even a service he truly needs.    It is
very frustrating.   You just can't always make them understand, even when
they DON'T have alzheimers......

I hope I am not crotchety and unreasonable like that when I am old!

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Jane Again - 05 Jul 2004 05:40 GMT
> Rant understood!   My dad is 91 and is starting to have difficulty taking
> care of his property.   He gets enraged when nobody wants to come down to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I hope I am not crotchety and unreasonable like that when I am old!

Me too, yeah know ya can't take it with you so put it to good use now.

Jane
Evelyn Ruut - 05 Jul 2004 11:36 GMT
> > Rant understood!   My dad is 91 and is starting to have difficulty taking
> > care of his property.   He gets enraged when nobody wants to come down to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Jane

Exactly.   Leaving a huge amount of money when I am gone is not my goal.  I
believe in saving some but also making my life comfortable now.

You never know how long you are going to live.  For all we know you could
get hit by the crosstown bus tomorrow morning, or have a quickie heart
attack or worse.    All we really have is the NOW.  The past is gone and the
future is only a tantalizing possibility.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Jane Again - 06 Jul 2004 15:11 GMT
> Exactly.   Leaving a huge amount of money when I am gone is not my goal.  I
> believe in saving some but also making my life comfortable now.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> attack or worse.    All we really have is the NOW.  The past is gone and the
> future is only a tantalizing possibility.

Absolutely Evelyn,

My Dad is having regrets now,  he always wanted to travel route 66 with all
his health issues it's not going to happen.  Something as simple as a road
trip that wouldn't have cost much, isn't going to happen now.  He was still
talking about it right before his heart attack in April.  He figured he had
all the time in the world, no matter how much we told him to retire, travel
enjoy his old age.  Now it's July he's in a nursing home and get's tired
when we push him in a wheelchair to the park.  Truly sad, I know I'm
planning my days, one day at a time, with some future plans to move to the
USVI after my daughter graduates.

Jane
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2004 15:06 GMT
> > Exactly.   Leaving a huge amount of money when I am gone is not my goal.
> I
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Jane

May you get your dream!

I plan to live in such a way as to have as few regrets as possible.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Songbird - 06 Jul 2004 15:56 GMT
> May you get your dream!
>
> I plan to live in such a way as to have as few regrets as possible.

My hubby and I have developed a ritual that on New Year's Eve we turn to
each other and say, "if you dropped dead tomorrow, what would you regret not
having done?"  Then we make plans to do it that year. (Obviously things like
"finishing the job of caring for my parents" is out of our control, but if
it were "swim with the dolphins," we'd find a way to do it.)

Songbird
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2004 18:40 GMT
> > May you get your dream!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Songbird

What a great tradition for New Years!

Maybe we ought to at least try it too.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Jane Again - 06 Jul 2004 20:56 GMT
> > > May you get your dream!
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Maybe we ought to at least try it too.

I agree, it is a great idea, we may adopt it too.

Jane
Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 17:23 GMT
> My mom gets medical assistance from the county.What i don't like is if i
> get paid through them they put a lien on her home.My sister is concerned
> about that prolonging the sale of my moms home.Does anyone have any
> info.on this?

Barb,

That is the problem with today's children.  Many of then are concerned with
materialistic items.  Does your sister realize that the sale of the home is
the solution to stress?  If the family sold the home, they would have money
to take care of your mom.  Rather then you and your husband giving up
everything to take care of your mom.  I understand you are doing it out of
love, but love doesn't support life.  Love doesn't pay the bills, buy the
food, put gas in the car, buy clothes.  Ultimately, there will be hard
feelings in the end, looks like there is already hard feelings.

I feel guilty that my father is now in a nursing home and it happened so
fast his health declining that I didn't even have to digest it all.  He had
a heart attack in April and here it's July 4th and now he's in a nursing
home, his feet and legs are on the verge of being amputated, due to
diabetes, his Alzheimer's has progressed much faster then what our family
was prepared for.  My step mother has had 18 stints put into her heart and
she is unable to care for my father.  Luckily we were able to place him into
the White Bear Care center 7 blocks from his home, someone in our family is
with him daily.  Financially none of us are prepared to quit our jobs, pack
up our lives and have him move in with us.  Not for the amount of care he
needs.  I give my mother credit for taking care of my grandmother, but it
would be impossible for any of us to take care of my dad.  Guilt, hell yeah
we all have guilt.  The guilt is not being successful enough to be
financially independent and being able to physically take care of our
father.  So we placed him in  a center where he's being provided for, looked
after, and he's safe, we take turns visiting him, so he' doesn't get to
lonely.  We take him to movies, dinner, to the park, shopping, heck he sees
us more now then he did before he was sick.

I admire you, for doing what you did, giving up what you did.  I don't know
how you do it, but good wishes from us.

Jane
Dennis P. Harris - 05 Jul 2004 03:11 GMT
> My mom gets medical assistance from the county.What i don't like is if i
> get paid through them they put a lien on her home.My sister is concerned
> about that prolonging the sale of my moms home.Does anyone have any
> info.on this?

If she's already getting assistance, they will put a lien on her
home anyway.  It won't prolong the sale of the home, but the lien
will have to be satisfied at the closing when the home is sold,
which will make the sale more complicated.

You should indeed get paid through them, and ignore what your
siblings say.  If they don't like it, tell them that you can
simply leave and then they can pay a lot more for some stranger
to take care of her.

It's obvious that your siblings care far more about your mother's
money than her, or you.  If I was in your shoes, I would find out
how the county can pay you and make those arrangements, because
it's obvious that your siblings will give you the shaft even
worse when your mother is gone.
Evelyn Ruut - 05 Jul 2004 03:15 GMT
> > My mom gets medical assistance from the county.What i don't like is if i
> > get paid through them they put a lien on her home.My sister is concerned
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> it's obvious that your siblings will give you the shaft even
> worse when your mother is gone.

Barb,

I think Dennis is right on the money here.   Go for it.   Who cares if it
takes longer or is more complicated to sell the property?   Your sister will
have to work a little harder to get it done, that's all.

You need to look out for yourself.   Caregiving is absolutely exhausting,
depressing, difficult and it definitely deserves recompense.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 14:56 GMT
Barb and Evelyn

> I had a Chow Chow dog and he was a sweet, gentle, quiet dog.   The only time
> he barked was when someone came to the door.   I have two German Shepherds
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> pleasure for them.   My two dogs loved Ida and she loved them.   Same with
> our cats.

We have three dogs now, and we bring two of them with us each time we visit
my father and all the residence love it, including the Alzheimer's
residence.  My little one will jump right up and kiss them and he loves the
attention.  We also have a Great Dane, it's amazing to see how gentle she is
with the older people.  It's like she knows they are fragile and she is so
careful and loving with them.  The nurse's at the care center encourage
visitors to bring their cats and dogs when visiting, they believe it's great
therapy and companionship for the residence.

> My sister also likes to sleep with a fan going.   Sleeping with a fan going
> is a personal choice and fans don't use that much electricity anyway.   That
> really shouldn't be anyones business but yours, especially since you are
> caring for your mother there without pay.

We run the ceiling fan in our room everynight and sometimes depending if the
air is on or not, we also run a fan.  Our electric bill isn't out ragous.
And the little it does cost, they have to remember that you are caring for
someone that normally would cost them a fortune.
Jane Again - 04 Jul 2004 14:48 GMT
From: "turkey in the straw" <barbfrombethel@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: MISSING
Date: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:09 PM

I am wondering what you all think of my
getting paid here?Barb

Honestly as it sounds, a resounded "heck yeah."  My grandmother paid my mom
for ten years that my mom took care of her.  When my grandmother passed
away, the other kids each gave my mom 1k for her ten years out of the
inheritance.  It doesn't sound like much but there were 16 of them.  So 15k
from the brothers and sisters was very nice.  I don't know if I could give
everything up.  I always thought I'd take care of my father in his old age,
but with Alzheimer's and his feet decaying do to diabetes, I would have to
quit my full time job and stay home permanently, and with this day and age,
that's impossible.  If your sister is the POA why didn't they move in to
take care of your mother?  Yes being the POA is difficult, but not nearly as
difficult as taking care of someone with Alz.

Jane
 
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