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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2004

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Getting Paid for Caregiving

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Mary Gordon - 04 Jul 2004 21:57 GMT
Turkey in the straw - I really agree - you should be getting paid.
After all, if you were not pitching in, your sister would be obliged
to make  costly arrangements for an alternative - either moving her in
with them entirely, and hiring respite help or putting her in daycare,
or hiring a 24/7 caregiver to keep her at home etc. I'm thinking you
are providing a service worth at least a few thousand a month - and so
bare minimum, they should be paying you a nominal salary of a $500 a
month - and if they were honest about what they are getting for the
money, more than that.

You can't work outside the home and look after her at the same time,
so your avenues of income are restricted by the caregiving - and you
don't have other sources of income such as retirement funds.

I'd be having a serious talk with the sister about this - its a bit
much. I'm also betting she may talk a good line but might not want to
take on the caregiving herself - and your mother having to go into a
home would really be expensive. She's taking advantage of you, and
treating you with contempt to boot.

Mary G.
Jo Ann Malina - 06 Jul 2004 09:58 GMT
Mary Gordon <Mary_Gordon@tvo.org> is alleged to have said:
> Turkey in the straw - I really agree - you should be getting paid.
> After all, if you were not pitching in, your sister would be obliged
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> home would really be expensive. She's taking advantage of you, and
> treating you with contempt to boot.

I don't know about your state, but California has a program to pay
people to provide home care to their relatives, which is cheaper than
institutionalizing them.  However our program is due to be cut back
(along with one that sends assisted living workers to help of the
disabled live in their homes).  Balancing the budget on the backs of
the elderly, poor and crippled.  It's the fashion nowadays.

Anyway, check into it.  You can start at the state government web site
(nd.gov or ca.gov etc).  Or try a senior center, they'll know about
such programs.

Signature

Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address
A decent provision for the poor is the true test of civilization.
               -- Samuel Johnson, Boswell's _Life of Johnson_

Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2004 13:07 GMT
> Mary Gordon <Mary_Gordon@tvo.org> is alleged to have said:
> > Turkey in the straw - I really agree - you should be getting paid.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> (nd.gov or ca.gov etc).  Or try a senior center, they'll know about
> such programs.

Or a lawyer who specializes in elder law.

Get ready for more raiding of necessary social programs unless we can make a
BIG change in November.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 07 Jul 2004 05:33 GMT
I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
don't know if there are other programs that might.Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Julie - 07 Jul 2004 06:40 GMT
In our family we are fortunate to have many hands to help out.  My mother
lives with my sister and brother-in-law.  My brother and I both live in the
same city as my sister.  My other sister lives in Washington State, my
brother paid for my sister and her husband to come down this last week to
help out while we were out of town.

My brother visits mom at least one night a week, and if my sister takes a
vacation we take turns taking mom to our house, or my brother will spend the
night at mom's.

My daughter-in-law is paid by the family to care for mom 2 afternoon's a
week.  She is a big help.  She has a medical background so I really
appreciate her assistance.  She takes mom to medical appointments and takes
care of her pills for the week.  (about a dozen drugs).  I used to do all of
the medical things and it was getting a bit overwhelming for me.  I have
epilepsy so I have to watch my stress level.  Now I can do some of the
doctor visits and be with mom once or twice a week, or bring her to stay at
my house to give my sister a break.

One other thing we have started to do is take mom to daycare once a week.
The care facility is only one block from my sister's house.  I found out
about assistance from the government by doing some research and contacting
the Commission on Aging.  The care facility bills me, I pay the bill and
then send the bill and receipt to the Alzheimer's Association (they are the
group given the responsibility in our area to administer the Respite
Reimbursement program).  In a couple weeks I get a check reimbursing me.

The next step is to do some rearranging in mom's room so she can use her
walker instead of her cane, since she really doesn't use the cane properly.
She no longer needs a queen size bed, we'll change that to a twin size and
move out a coffee table and her exercise bike.  Then remove the throw rugs
and if we could just say good-bye to the dog, she would be so much safer.

We took mom to a new physical therapist today at the balance center.  I
really feel good about the changes we are making.  What a difference it
makes to feel like you are progressing in caring for your loved one.  For
over a year we were so frustrated because she wouldn't stop picking skin off
her hand.  The psychiatrist took care of that problem.  Now we are dealing
with other issues.  Of course there is not a light at the end of the tunnel,
but the tunnel has gotten larger and I feel like I can breath ;-)

Take care,
Julie

> I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
> vicious and inevitable consequences.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jul 2004 12:14 GMT
> In our family we are fortunate to have many hands to help out.  My mother
> lives with my sister and brother-in-law.  My brother and I both live in the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> Take care,
> Julie

It is wonderful to hear of a family that genuinely cooperates in the care of
their loved one.  We so often hear the opposite.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 07 Jul 2004 15:28 GMT
Julie,
    I am so glad for you.In my family i get little help.My brother
lives 80 miles away,doesn't work,yet we haven't seen or heard from him
in months.My sister lives 3,yes only 3 miles away and won't even take my
mom to an appt.She's evil in my eyes.She does nothing but start trouble
here.Thats a whole nother story.My sister in Bay Lake lives 120 miles
away and is POA.She has helped quite a bit but doesn't really realize
the stress this causes on a person.So i pretty much go it alone here.We
have great financial stress here and that makes every other problem look
huge.But by the grace of God we will make it.Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Julie - 08 Jul 2004 06:30 GMT
I do realize how good it is to have family work together.  For years my
parents lived in Spokane, Washington.  My sister and her husband helped take
care of their needs.  My oldest sister and I would travel to Spokane from
Boise, or to Arizona in the winter.  It seemed like every winter one of my
parents would end up in the hospital and we would get a call from my dad
asking us to come stay with the one who wasn't in the hospital.  We were
happy to be there for them and my dad always insisted on paying for our
trip.

Then about 10 years ago my mom's dementia was bad and dad had been taking
care of her.  Dad ended up in the hospital. I went to stay with them and had
a talk with my dad.  I told him that whenever he was ready to move to Boise
he has three children and their families ready to pitch in and move them and
help them.  We would take care of them.

My dad decided to move to Boise.  We found internists for my parents right
away and got them in to see their doctors.  The first thing my dad's doctor
wanted was to do some tests which his doctor in Spokane could not get my dad
to agree to do.  It turned out he had colon cancer.  He made it through the
surgery, but had complications after the surgery.  He ended up in the
hospital and finally came home with trouble aspirating into his lungs.  We
took turns taking care of dad and mom, feeding dad through a feeding tube.
He was such a generous person.  He insisted on taking us out for lunch and
sat there with a feeding tube, not eating, while he enjoyed watching us
eat.  He always insisted on paying for the bill.

One day while I was taking care of mom and dad he fell and broke his hip.
He made it through the surgery but died 4 days later due to blood clots in
his lungs.  He had only been in Boise for 6 months.  I was with my dad when
he died in the hospital.  We  promised him that we would take care of mom.

Tonight I was over at my sister's house talking to her about my mom's
medical needs.  My sister confided in me that she feels guilty when she
considers planning a fishing or camping trip because she will have to ask my
brother or me to take care of mom.  She already has asked us to help out so
much this summer because she has been to Colorado to pick up her
grandchildren and will be taking them back to Colorado.  I told her she
should not feel guilty.  All she has to do is ask.  If it doesn't work out
that we can take mom, then we will have the backup plan of the daycare
facility.  That is why I was excited when I figured out that we could use
them as a resource.

Tonight my brother and I rearranged my mother's room.  We are having her use
a walker and her room was too cluttered.  She is going to be put on a blood
thinner, so we need to make sure she is safe.  It is amazing what a
difference it made when we took out the coffee table, the exercise bike, and
replaced her queen size bed with a twin size bed.  She got ready for bed and
I noticed her toe nails were getting rather long.  I filed down her nails
while my brother put some eye drops in for her.  Then as I was leaving my
brother told my mother he would give her a back rub.  I was thinking it is
nice to be in a loving family.

Take care,
Julie

> Julie,
>      I am so glad for you.In my family i get little help.My brother
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
> vicious and inevitable consequences.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jul 2004 12:12 GMT
> I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
> don't know if there are other programs that might.Barb

Barb, that is why your mom should have set up an agreement for you to be
paid with a lawyer EARLY in the game.    Your sister absolutely could
legally pay you, since she has POA, but it is her choice to pay strangers or
to pay you.   I can tell you she will pay a lot more to strangers and the
care won't be as good as someone who loves the patient.   Your sister needs
a wake up call.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 07 Jul 2004 15:15 GMT
Evelyn,
 I think there is a misunderstanding here.How could my sister pay me.My
mom doesn't have money now and neither does my sister.So where would the
money come from?Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jul 2004 19:04 GMT
> Evelyn,
>   I think there is a misunderstanding here.How could my sister pay me.My
> mom doesn't have money now and neither does my sister.So where would the
> money come from?Barb

I was assuming your mother had property and perhaps some savings.   You
couldn't get paid then until the property is sold and there was some sort of
money to pay you from.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Robert E. Lewis - 07 Jul 2004 16:07 GMT
> > I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> > they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> care won't be as good as someone who loves the patient.   Your sister needs
> a wake up call.

I think there are just two mindsets on family caregiving that are completely
irreconcilable: those who are by nature caregivers and make the effort even
at great emotional and financial toll, and those who take advantage of the
ones who care enough to do that.  My guess is that if Barb gave her sister a
'wake up call' by requiring an outsider be hired for the job Barb is doing
for free,  the sister would think it was just terrible how Barb is behaving,
before agreeing when the bills started coming in (I still think doing it is
a good idea).

I saw that when Mom took care of her dying mother for a year and a half for
nothing but room and board, unable to work even part time.  My cousin  --
who was making money off grandmother's real estate broker license and was
being sent money by grandmother for real estate school tuition during this
time, and who took care of grandmother for all of three days while Mom
arranged for care at home -- petulantly complained after grandmother died
that Mom had benefited unfairly in that grandmother had put a small block of
her late husband's stock, maybe $5K, in Mom's name before she died!

I have the same thing with one sister - I'm not paid, but have received some
financial help, for example, when Dad wanted me to be driving a car safe for
the 140-mile round trip to his doctors.  My sister, on the other hand, has
'borrowed' several thousand dollars from Dad over the past five years.  But
when my father five years ago announced he was altering his will to leave me
his (mortgaged) house, this sister literally launched a campaign against it,
telling him how much she was counting on that money and would be destitute
without it. (She actually told our father, then on oxygen and having been
given a 30% chance of living one year, that she was counting on the
inheritance from his death to pay her son's college tuition - her son was 17
at the time!)

I can't even demand that this sister come take care of Dad every once in a
while so I can take a couple of days off - she invariably tries to wheedle
money out of our father, and it aggravates him so I worry she might trigger
a heart attack or stroke.

But the other sister arrives Saturday, and I will be off-call and on
vacation for a wonderful five days!

--
Robert
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jul 2004 19:10 GMT
> > > I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> > > they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> --
> Robert

Robert I hope you have a wonderful time.  No one deserves it more than you.

I just cannot understand the vicious siblings who allow caregiving to turn
into some sort of a revenge thing on the person who does all the hands on
work of caregiving.    But man's inhumanity to man in general, seems to have
a basis, a counterpart in how we treat our family members too.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Robert E. Lewis - 07 Jul 2004 21:36 GMT
> "Robert E. Lewis" <rlewis@brazosport.cc.tx.us> wrote...

> > I think there are just two mindsets on family caregiving that are
> > completely irreconcilable: those who are by nature caregivers
> > and make the effort even at great emotional and financial toll,
> > and those who take advantage of the ones who care enough
> > to do that.
...

> > But the other sister arrives Saturday, and I will be off-call and on
> > vacation for a wonderful five days!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Robert I hope you have a wonderful time.  No one deserves it more than you.

Thanks.   I have a close friend coming in from overseas, and we're just
going to meander down the coast, visit a wildlife refuge and some quiet
beaches, staying in inexpensive motels or even camping a few nights - I'm
too broke for anything more.  But just not having that invisible tether for
a few days sounds so nice - with one exception,* I haven't been more than
about 150 miles from the house in... I don't know how long, and while I'ved
stayed overnight away a few nights (one, maybe two nights at a time), it's
call home a couple of times a day and have the cell phone always at hand.

(*The one exception was when the unhelpful sister needed my help moving -
she promised  if I flew out to help drive the moving van back, she'd be
ready, two days away.  She wasn't ready, and it was four-plus days.)

I have a client who works for an agency that assists people with
disabilities have as great a degree of independent living as possible, and
deals with caregivers, mostly not people with AD, but physical or mental
disabilities.  She said when people come in, they're often unsure exactly
what sort of help they are looking for, fumble around a bit, and when she
suggests 'respite care,' the people just light up.

> I just cannot understand the vicious siblings who allow caregiving to turn
> into some sort of a revenge thing on the person who does all the hands on
> work of caregiving.    But man's inhumanity to man in general, seems to have
> a basis, a counterpart in how we treat our family members too.

I find myself wondering how a generation ever gets back to the caregiving
mindset. My sister's son his exactly like her in that regard, and I can see
the day coming when Sis is going to need this kind of support - and she's
not going to get it from her child.  And I'm sad to say, she's not going to
get it from me, either - doing it mostly single-handed has left me
burned-out at the idea of accepting the burden for another generation.

--

Robert
(Who has no idea what I'd do if *I* ever need this kind of caregiving.
<sigh>)
Beth Cole - 07 Jul 2004 22:05 GMT
> I find myself wondering how a generation ever gets back to the caregiving
> mindset. My sister's son his exactly like her in that regard, and I can see
> the day coming when Sis is going to need this kind of support - and she's
> not going to get it from her child.  And I'm sad to say, she's not going to
> get it from me, either - doing it mostly single-handed has left me
> burned-out at the idea of accepting the burden for another generation.

My grandparents had one of their daughters living with them for over a
year following my grandmother's stroke which led to my grandfather's
diagnosis with AD.   She burnt out very quickly, but since she was being
paid by them felt that she had no other options.  One of the most
frustrating aspects for her was the her father was not an easy person to
be around when he was fully functional, and the AD greatly enhanced some
tendencies towards paranoia and violence.  Had my father not removed his
gun collection from their home, she believed that they would all have
been killed because he mistook a midnight walk to the bathroom or
kitchen for a burglar.

When she told my father that she was on the verge of a nervous
breakdown, he insisted on getting a housekeeper to come in 5 days a
week, so that his sister could continue with her own life.  The
housekeeper continued comng in after Grandpa went to the nursing home,
because Grandma's health had deteriorated to the point that she was
unable to fix her own meals, shower or bathe on her own, etc.
Eventually, it became round-the-clock companion care, thanks to some
wonderful young women who were unemployed and wanted to work.

While the housekeeper did cause other issues for my family (she wasn't
exactly close-mouthed about what she saw and heard, and my parents &
grandparents live(d) in a very small town), it would not have been
possible for my grandmother to stay in her own home without her.

> Robert
> (Who has no idea what I'd do if *I* ever need this kind of caregiving.
> <sigh>)

I fully expect that my husband & I will need to pay caregivers.  He's 5
years older than I am, but he is in better health.  Neither of us has
the personality to be capable of providing long-term care to another
person (one of a multitude of reasons that we don't have children,
actually).

Beth

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Jane Again - 08 Jul 2004 01:34 GMT
> But the other sister arrives Saturday, and I will be off-call and on
> vacation for a wonderful five days!

Robert your family sounds like my mother's family.  My grandmother sold
everything and moved in with my mom ten years before she died.  Mom would
get a couple weeks off a year from her one sister who lived in the south who
also had POA.  She'd come visit and mom would go up north on vacation.
Anyway mom quit her job and took care of grandma.  Grandma paid my mom's
mortgage for payment of taking care of her.  Mom's mortgage at the time was
like $400.00 a month.  Anyway, Grandma by her choice and ok'd by the doctor
was allowed to pass away peacefully at home after several hospitalizations
over the last couple of years of her life.  At the funeral one of her 15
siblings suggested my mother receive 1k from each sibling for caring for
grandma and wrote out a contract right at the mortuary, where they had a
notary, each sibling who agreed would could sign and there was no
obligation, if you didn't agree don't sign and 1k of your inheritance would
not go to my mom.  Well needless to say all 15 signed feeling my mother
sacrificed 10 years of her life to care for my grandmother.

After the Will was read and the inheritance was distributed, one of the
siblings was upset that there was only 15k left for each child.  I feel like
that is a lot considering the amount of children there are.  My mother
received 31k.  15k from the siblings and 16k of her inheritance.  About six
months after my grandmother died, a cop shows up at my mothers door, they're
investigating claims of abuse and neglect, which were filed against my
mother, which this person ultimately believes is the result of my
grandmother passing away.  (Basically murder)  My mother is hurt, floored
and pissed is hell.  To make a long story short, the investigation went no
where (no evidence), the cops figure it's just jealousy.  Then a few of the
siblings file a civil suit against my mom and the aunt that is POA, which a
judge just freaks out on the siblings and tells them they should be ashamed
of themselves for acting like ungrateful, horrible brothers and sisters.
She then proceeds to tell them they are barred from filing anymore suits
against my mother as it will be considered harassment.

This is a loving Catholic family, which was corrupted by money and greed.
It sickened me to watch this family fall apart as my grandparents passed
away.  These are Aunts and Uncles, who'd come over unannounced to visit
grandma, without any complaints from my mother.  My mother would feed these
siblings and hostess to them every weekend, when they showed up but she'd
never complain, never ask for any help, never expect anything, they'd smile
at her and months later accuse her of murdering her own mother in order to
prosper.

It was unbelievable

Jane
turkey in the straw - 08 Jul 2004 05:18 GMT
Jane,
  That is just awful.I believe without a doubt that my sister would try
to pull that too.She claimed just a few weeks ago that she had a lawyer
and was charging me with abuse because i won't answer her calls.Abuse to
the elderly cause her calls are to my mom.The reason i don't answer them
is because she is always upsetting my mom by insisting she is sick and
should go to the doctor.I have my mom call her once in a while.Plus my
sister has done awful things to me and others all her life. She just
recently took advantage of a vulnerable adult she knows by cheating her
out of a lot of money.She's unbelievable.Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Jane Again - 08 Jul 2004 22:14 GMT
> Jane,
>    That is just awful.I believe without a doubt that my sister would try
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> recently took advantage of a vulnerable adult she knows by cheating her
> out of a lot of money.She's unbelievable.Barb

Just becareful Barb, its unbelievable what money and greed can do to a
family.  Take lots of pictures of your mom, have your mother keep a journal
if possible.  When she visit's her doctor I definitely would mention to her
doctor that your sister is accusing you of abusing your mom and you want him
to document all visits and check for signs of abuse at every visit.  It's
for your protection.  If you have neighbors who are close to your mom,
invite them to visit so you have outsiders seeing the condition of your
mother and the environment she lives in.  I guarantee that if your sister is
saying this now, it'll get worse as your mother get's worse and it'll be
horrible after she passes away.  Document everything, keep a journal
yourself, write down everything!

Protect yourself, it's so damned unfortunate that it all comes down to
control and greed.

Jane
Evelyn Ruut - 08 Jul 2004 22:45 GMT
> > Jane,
> >    That is just awful.I believe without a doubt that my sister would try
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Jane

It's all about money and greed.  That is true.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

turkey in the straw - 08 Jul 2004 04:56 GMT
Robert,
  My sister who lives 3 miles from here stole thousands of dollars from
my parents.Before my dad died she would tell them all the time
she was having them put in a nursing home.She drove my dad crazy.But he
allowed it and wouldn't listen to the rest of us.She still owes my mom
thousands but my mom can't prove it so she will never see it.Like i said
she is evil.She would go grocery shopping for them only to buy groceries
for herself with there check.It was awful.She tried borrowing money from
our mom just weeks after my dad died.I told her to forget it.She will
never get a penny from my mom as long a i am in control.Barb

It grieves me to see our nation's (or any nation's) children turned into
killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
vicious and inevitable consequences.



Janet - 09 Jul 2004 15:38 GMT
Robert...I hope those days are all that you wished for...

Peace
Jan
> But the other sister arrives Saturday, and I will be off-call and on
> vacation for a wonderful five days!
>
> --
> Robert
Robert E. Lewis - 07 Jul 2004 15:27 GMT
> I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
> don't know if there are other programs that might.Barb

Does it have to be a stranger with special certification as a caregiver?  My
thought is: if you could find another person near you in the same situation,
perhaps you could 'hire' each other to look after your respective LOs, and
then 'trade off' duty unofficially, so you're 'filling in' for her while
she's 'filling in' for you, if you get my drift.

(Not wanting to advocate anything illegal, of course, but the policy is
utterly absurd.)

--
Robert
Songbird - 07 Jul 2004 16:30 GMT
> > I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> > they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> (Not wanting to advocate anything illegal, of course, but the policy is
> utterly absurd.)

Even aside from that, sometimes it is easier to care for someone you are not
emotionally involved. Maybe you really would take turns caring for each
other's LO amnd getting paid for it. With a "stranger" the outbursts and
refusals are not seen as personal. It could give you a "break" too to deal
with a different set of problems. (Perhaps your "jobmate" could be caring
for a child, or someone with a different sort of problems.)

I used to have a cleaning lady who hated to clean her own house but loved
cleaning others. So she found a colleague and swapped with her so they each
cleaned each other's house. It was the same thing -- if she scrubbed up a
sticky spot on the kitchen floor in her own house, she was fuming at the
child that didn't clean it up sooner. At the other lady's house it was just
part of the task.

Just an idea ...

Songbird
Janet - 09 Jul 2004 15:17 GMT
Turkey, I found the same to be true in PA.  I had high hopes of doing the
work and handing the money back to my mother (she uses the pittance she gets
for respite to pay for a sitter for my father so she can clean houses for
enough money to pay the co-pay on drugs and doctor visits).

It makes no sense to me, either.

Peace,
Jan
> I found out medica will not pay for a relative to care for my mom.But
> they will a stranger.Now thats damm ridiculous.Sorry but i am angry.I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> killers before they have had the opportunity to study war and its
> vicious and inevitable consequences.
 
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