Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / June 2004
chamber pots
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Lee - 17 Jun 2004 15:25 GMT anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?
We are having ~issues~ around this - but I'm leery about ~disappearing~ it in case it leads to even worse messes
Howard Goldstein - 17 Jun 2004 16:51 GMT : anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?
Oh yeah. The med supply place calls what we use a 'commode,' just a toilet seat on a tubular frame with nice grips and a frame to hang a bucket to catch the winnings. It's fancier than what I think of as a chamber pot (Dickens and olde England and heavy nasty pots to pour out of the bedroom window in the morning)
: We are having ~issues~ around this - but I'm leery about ~disappearing~ it : in case it leads to even worse messes
Is having the stuff in the bucket instead of on the AD person easier for everyone? If so then you may have most of what you need to feel better about having the thing around at least for such time as your LO is blessedly continent.
Robert E. Lewis - 18 Jun 2004 22:04 GMT > : anyone had a LO that still uses/used one? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > better about having the thing around at least for such time as your LO > is blessedly continent. We had one of these (still have it, packed away in the garage, in case it's needed again), from the time my father was released from the hospital after a serious illness about four years ago. The version we had included a bucket, but it also had a plastic tube, like the bucket but without a bottom, that allowed us to place it over the toilet, where it was easier for Dad to use because it was higher and had the tubular aluminum had-grips.
I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a chamber pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it over the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever as a 'convenience' for the person once they're used to it. Dad didn't mind using it as an adjunct to the toilet, but I think he'd have had *issues* with it as something I had to empty for him.
(My grandparents kept a cleaned-out gallon paint can under their bed for nighttime calls of nature.)
--
Robert
Lee - 19 Jun 2004 00:14 GMT she's got her own old chamber pot - highly doubt she'd accept anything else at this point... the big issue isn't so much her using it, but rather that she - in her effort to be independent, and to keep me from ~knowing~ that she's quit "trying" the disposables I bought for her -- is emptying it all by herself..... most recently, in the kitchen sink - which did contain a few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out of splash range shelf for such things)
I made a bit of a fuss about the kitchen sink thing - I REALLY can't cope with that.... and she agreed to not do it again .... but she'll forget
Wonder how many times she's done that when I wasn't looking : ( *GAG*
> > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:25:53 GMT, Lee <sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Robert Mary K Farrell - 22 Jun 2004 18:29 GMT Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean my mom's commode even if it was only urine. I'd put about 3 inches of Lysol in the bottom of it because I couldn't stand the smell, let alone the sight of the waste. Now that it's my husband, it doesn't bother me at all. We have his commode within his reach by his side of the bed (he can't walk; have to keep it close). I remind him that I'll clean it up in the morning. But before we go to sleep, I have to remember to lift the lid or I may have to mop the floor in the middle of the night! Keep the pot. It's easier for everyone. Good luck. Mary K > she's got her own old chamber pot - highly doubt she'd accept anything else > at this point... the big issue isn't so much her using it, but rather that > she - in her effort to be independent, and to keep me from ~knowing~ that > she's quit "trying" the disposables I bought for her -- is emptying it all > by herself..... most recently, in the kitchen sink - which did contain a > few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to > that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the > counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out of > splash range shelf for such things) > > I made a bit of a fuss about the kitchen sink thing - I REALLY can't cope > with that.... and she agreed to not do it again .... but she'll forget > > Wonder how many times she's done that when I wasn't looking : ( *GAG* > > > > > > > > > "Robert E. Lewis" <rlewis@brazosport.cc.tx.us> wrote in message > news:mNIAc.4$mG2.247@newshog.newsread.com... > > > > "Howard Goldstein" <hgoldste@mpcs.com> wrote in message > > news:1087487502.18301@news.queue.to... > > > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:25:53 GMT, Lee <sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > : anyone had a LO that still uses/used one? > > > > > > Oh yeah. The med supply place calls what we use a 'commode,' just a > > > toilet seat on a tubular frame with nice grips and a frame to hang a > > > bucket to catch the winnings. It's fancier than what I think of as a > > > chamber pot (Dickens and olde England and heavy nasty pots to pour > > > out of the bedroom window in the morning) > > > > > > : We are having ~issues~ around this - but I'm leery about > > ~disappearing~ it > > > : in case it leads to even worse messes > > > > > > Is having the stuff in the bucket instead of on the AD person easier > > > for everyone? If so then you may have most of what you need to feel > > > better about having the thing around at least for such time as your LO > > > is blessedly continent. > > > > > > > We had one of these (still have it, packed away in the garage, in case > it's > > needed again), from the time my father was released from the hospital > after > > a serious illness about four years ago. The version we had included a > > bucket, but it also had a plastic tube, like the bucket but without a > > bottom, that allowed us to place it over the toilet, where it was easier > for > > Dad to use because it was higher and had the tubular aluminum had-grips. > > > > I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a chamber > > pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it over > > the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever as a > > 'convenience' for the person once they're used to it. Dad didn't mind > using > > it as an adjunct to the toilet, but I think he'd have had *issues* with it > > as something I had to empty for him. > > > > (My grandparents kept a cleaned-out gallon paint can under their bed for > > nighttime calls of nature.) > > > > -- > > > > Robert > > > > > > > >
Lee - 22 Jun 2004 22:02 GMT I've had some success the last few days by dropping into her room with her coffee & pills first thing in the morning - if it's been used, I just take it away before she can object.
handling the pot is not and hasn't ever been a major problem for me - have dealt with far more intimate things back when I worked with severely physically disabled individuals... the issue is that I can not cope with HER dumping it in the kitchen sink - or all over the bathroom counter.
> Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when > it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to > > that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the
> > counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out > of [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > > > Jo Ann Malina - 25 Jun 2004 05:31 GMT Is it possible to chain the commode to the bed, so it can't be picked up? I don't mean a big clanky chain but maybe a thin bicycle chain covered with vinyl. I know the frame is separate from the "pot," which probably just lifts out. But someone must have had this problem, and there's probably a product out there somewhere to deal with it. I keep hoping, anyway.
When Mom decided she was going to fix the toilet, I almost got a chain to keep the lid on the tank, but a heavy radio/boom box did the trick.
I'm also having trouble with the bodily fluids and other contamination of dishes and common surfaces (I'm trying not to get too detailed). The only way to stop it is to follow her around. I can't even lock anything up, though I can hide things. I'm going to get a locking file cabinet for pills and things. Maybe I will have to put the clean silverware away, too!
 Signature Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address
Mary K Farrell <medfit2@san.rr.com> is alleged to have said:
> Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when > it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > > > > Lee - 25 Jun 2004 22:53 GMT sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that slides under the bed... probably an antique - doubt there are many still (or again) in use.
should be ~fun~ around here for a bit... took her to the doc today and she's now on a diuretic. Her heart is failing... doctor very matter of factly said she's already years past his prognosis, so no surprise to him.... she has a very bad heart, and it's amazing that it's kept going this long ... now it's failing..... as if it's something we all knew already.....was rather a large ~surprise~ to the rest of us that her heart is THAT bad though ...
was rather perturbed with him ... think he might have mentioned it, at LEAST when we asked him about the optometrist's recommendation re: cataract surgery .... why the **** would he say to go ahead if he's of the opinion that she's already on borrowed time? I raised it and he said "well they don't use a general anaesthetic, so it wouldn't hurt her heart any". So freakin' WHAT? It would stress her out.... I don't see much point to pursuing it. He doubled her Rx for reminyl last time we saw him too.... is there a point to THAT?
He was so (insert naughty words here) casual - "she's in heart failure...we'll try a diuretic, but she's already years past my prognosis.... just keep her comfortable."
I asked what we're supposed to do when she's obviously having trouble - short of breath, etc.... how long do we wait before we take her in / do something.... he kinda shrugged and said "it's not necessary - not much to be done for her - but you can"
From his attitude, none of this should be a surprise to us... and in fact, I suspect that he thinks he's made it clear to the daughter that (used to) do all the doctor's appointments - but she didn't ~get~ it, if he did tell her.
Anyway ... hasn't been the best day ever... but better we know than not... and really, for her, probably a blessing
She's an independent, stubborn old cuss at heart... was, anyway ... hates the losses that she's aware of ...and she really don't know the half of it anymore. I'm sure if she could choose heart failure vs late stage Az, ......what a choice, eh?
Evelyn Ruut - 26 Jun 2004 03:40 GMT > sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of > thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > anymore. I'm sure if she could choose heart failure vs late stage Az, > ......what a choice, eh? Lee, to me that'd be a no brainer. I'd definitely take the nice quiet heart failure. Late stage Az seems to really be awful, especially on the family. Have you contacted Hospice? She would probably qualify at this point. So sorry you are all going through this.
Getting old is definitely not for sissies, is it? So far my mother in law is doing quite well in the nursing home, but I know that if she was in her right mind she would hate being this dependent and helpless.
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Lee - 26 Jun 2004 04:55 GMT thought (re: hospice) had crossed my mind .... more to help certain family members cope than for my MIL....and maybe to help get a bit more clarity from the doctor.... I left there with a lot more questions than answers..... my partner and I talked today about maybe making an appointment to go in and talk to him.... without ma. I REALLY want more clarity, since I'm the one that's most often with her - about what I'm supposed to DO... or not do, I guess.... when she gets really bad .... one thing to let her go without calling an ambulance or whatever if the doctor's said to (clearly, not just alluded to it) ....AND if her family is in agreement ....quite another without it being clearly stated .... (keeping in mind that I'm "just the girlfriend" - I do most of the care because I happen to be more comfortable with it ...but she's not my mother, and I don't get to make the decisions)
yesterday she seemed oblivious to everything...far more focussed on a forgotten coat than on how she was feeling or what the doctor had to say ..... today was very clear about not wanting to be here alone for even a few minutes ..... clingy/whiney ... not at all normal behaviour for her. Don't think she understands... but she ~knows~ .... if that makes any sense. Given up the fight re: disposables as of today too - that's a relief!
good thing I didn't count on the home care provider to show up on time - she was almost an hour late.... I was a ~tad~ perturbed.... normally I'd have left shortly before she was due to show up ... if I'd done that today, would have been a crisis. Don't think she'll do that without at least a phone call again. Of course, she wouldn't have known that the situation had changed drastically in the last few days.... but the reason they're scheduled as they are is to make sure that meals and meds are covered, and that she's never alone for more than an hour .... t'was not acceptable.
Anyway ...we don't have any real indication of how long she has... just that she's already on borrowed time ....her heart is "very bad" ....and it's "amazing" that it's still working at all..... so... guess we just keep on keeping on for the time being.... funny, a week ago the fact that I'm mostly unemployed for the summer was a calamity .... now it (almost) seems it's a good thing.. If she's still with us when I start back to work more hours in the fall, we'll deal... but in the meantime, we have a lot more flexibility .... can put her first... lots of time to sit and watch "those animals" (geese on the lake) - or me fishing in the boat out in front of the house - and eat ice cream ...
Will have 3 of her 4 kids here on Sunday .... chance to discuss things like the eye appointment (I know, cancelling it is a no brainer - but so far I'm the only one that's convinced of that --"we don't know how long she has, after all" - and remember who's NOT the decision maker) I'll bring up the hospice thing then... personally, I think tis a good idea even if we don't have any real indication re: how long she's likely to hang in there. I'm pretty good at supporting other people - years of practice - but to have someone to call if/when it's time would make it a whole lot easier.
> > sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of > > thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") Evelyn Ruut - 27 Jun 2004 15:15 GMT Lee, just wanted to wish you well today. Good luck with the family in discussing this situation. I hope they agree to let hospice help them. Hospice covers all the bases, from what I have heard.
 Signature Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
> thought (re: hospice) had crossed my mind .... more to help certain family > members cope than for my MIL....and maybe to help get a bit more clarity [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] > > > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") Lee - 27 Jun 2004 15:31 GMT talked to the daughter that's coming today on the phone yesterday .... her thinking is the same as mine ... get more clarity from the doctor, check into hospice, and cancel the eye appt - since I've already run that latter suggestion by my partner and he thinks we should go ahead with at least the evaluation, we then talked about "postponing" it for a month or two
now if we can just get the rest to agree...should be easier with the 2 of us in agreement though
the diuretics seem to be helping.... early part of the day is really bad... but by evening, once the fluids ease off, she's able to be up and wandering some, albeit slowly. Of course, since hubby works during the day, that's not helping his perception
> Lee, just wanted to wish you well today. Good luck with the family in > discussing this situation. I hope they agree to let hospice help them. [quoted text clipped - 161 lines] > > > > > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") Lee - 28 Jun 2004 01:16 GMT went well.... although she has a rather unfortunate tendency to vote for placement at the first indication of any problem - got the issue re: the specialist appt. resolved - going to 'postpone it for the time being'
haven't talked to hubby about how their conversation went yet... just leaving to walk up and meet him now ....
> talked to the daughter that's coming today on the phone yesterday .... her > thinking is the same as mine ... get more clarity from the doctor, check [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > > > > > > > "Lee" <sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:G91Dc.515063$Ar.256910@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> > > > > sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that > type [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > > > > > > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") Howard Goldstein - 19 Jun 2004 23:45 GMT : I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a chamber : pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it over : the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever as a : 'convenience' for the person once they're used to it.
FWIW I think the previous owners of our bracket used it over the toilet as it didn't come with a bucket. On the other hand the fact there wasn't a bucket could be nicely explained by the previous owners' kindness in tossing out ther smelly old bucket before they left.
I desperately wanted to use the frame and seat sans bucket, over a real toilet, but my LO person has over the months become so unsteady on her feet (and undirect-able verbally) that it's just a lot harder and scarier to try to safely maneuver her into the cramped area around the toilets than it is just to help her on her feet and then to the nearby seat+bucket.
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