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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / June 2004

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chamber pots

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Lee - 17 Jun 2004 15:25 GMT
anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?

We are having ~issues~ around this -  but I'm leery about ~disappearing~ it
in case it leads to even worse messes
Howard Goldstein - 17 Jun 2004 16:51 GMT
:  anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?

Oh yeah.  The med supply place calls what we use a 'commode,' just a
toilet seat on a tubular frame with nice grips and a frame to hang a
bucket to catch the winnings.  It's fancier than what I think of as a
chamber pot (Dickens and olde England and heavy nasty pots to pour
out of the bedroom window in the morning)

:  We are having ~issues~ around this -  but I'm leery about ~disappearing~ it
:  in case it leads to even worse messes

Is having the stuff in the bucket instead of on the AD person easier
for everyone?  If so then you may have most of what you need to feel
better about having the thing around at least for such time as your LO
is blessedly continent.
Robert E. Lewis - 18 Jun 2004 22:04 GMT
>  :  anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> better about having the thing around at least for such time as your LO
> is blessedly continent.

We had one of these (still have it, packed away in the garage, in case it's
needed again), from the time my father was released from the hospital after
a serious illness about four years ago.  The version we had included a
bucket, but it also had a plastic tube, like the bucket but without a
bottom, that allowed us to place it over the toilet, where it was easier for
Dad to use because it was higher and had the tubular aluminum had-grips.

I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a chamber
pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it over
the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever as a
'convenience' for the person once they're used to it. Dad didn't mind using
it as an adjunct to the toilet, but I think he'd have had *issues* with it
as something I had to empty for him.

(My grandparents kept a cleaned-out gallon paint can under their bed for
nighttime calls of nature.)

--

Robert
Lee - 19 Jun 2004 00:14 GMT
she's got her own old chamber pot - highly doubt she'd accept anything else
at this point... the big issue isn't so much her using it, but rather that
she - in her effort to be independent, and to keep me from ~knowing~ that
she's quit "trying" the disposables I bought for her -- is emptying it all
by herself.....  most recently, in the kitchen sink  - which did contain a
few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to
that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the
counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out of
splash range shelf for such things)

I made a bit of a fuss about the kitchen sink thing - I REALLY can't cope
with that.... and she agreed to not do it again .... but she'll forget

Wonder how many times she's done that when I wasn't looking  : (    *GAG*

> > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:25:53 GMT, Lee <sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Robert
Mary K Farrell - 22 Jun 2004 18:29 GMT
 Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when
it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean
my mom's commode even if it was only urine. I'd put about 3 inches of Lysol
in the bottom of it because I couldn't stand the smell, let alone the sight
of the waste. Now that it's my husband, it doesn't bother me at all. We have
his commode within his reach by his side of the bed (he can't walk; have to
keep it close). I remind him that I'll clean it up in the morning. But
before we go to sleep, I have to remember to lift the lid or I may have to
mop the floor in the middle of the night!
 Keep the pot. It's easier for everyone.
 Good luck.
 Mary K
 > she's got her own old chamber pot - highly doubt she'd accept anything
else
 > at this point... the big issue isn't so much her using it, but rather
that
 > she - in her effort to be independent, and to keep me from ~knowing~
that
 > she's quit "trying" the disposables I bought for her -- is emptying it
all
 > by herself.....  most recently, in the kitchen sink  - which did contain
a
 > few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to
 > that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the
 > counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out
of
 > splash range shelf for such things)
 >
 > I made a bit of a fuss about the kitchen sink thing - I REALLY can't
cope
 > with that.... and she agreed to not do it again .... but she'll forget
 >
 > Wonder how many times she's done that when I wasn't looking  : (
*GAG*
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > "Robert E. Lewis" <rlewis@brazosport.cc.tx.us> wrote in message
 > news:mNIAc.4$mG2.247@newshog.newsread.com...
 > >
 > > "Howard Goldstein" <hgoldste@mpcs.com> wrote in message
 > > news:1087487502.18301@news.queue.to...
 > > > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:25:53 GMT, Lee
<sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com>
 > > wrote:
 > > >  :  anyone had a LO that still uses/used one?
 > > >
 > > > Oh yeah.  The med supply place calls what we use a 'commode,' just a
 > > > toilet seat on a tubular frame with nice grips and a frame to hang a
 > > > bucket to catch the winnings.  It's fancier than what I think of as
a
 > > > chamber pot (Dickens and olde England and heavy nasty pots to pour
 > > > out of the bedroom window in the morning)
 > > >
 > > >  :  We are having ~issues~ around this -  but I'm leery about
 > > ~disappearing~ it
 > > >  :  in case it leads to even worse messes
 > > >
 > > > Is having the stuff in the bucket instead of on the AD person easier
 > > > for everyone?  If so then you may have most of what you need to feel
 > > > better about having the thing around at least for such time as your
LO
 > > > is blessedly continent.
 > > >
 > >
 > > We had one of these (still have it, packed away in the garage, in case
 > it's
 > > needed again), from the time my father was released from the hospital
 > after
 > > a serious illness about four years ago.  The version we had included a
 > > bucket, but it also had a plastic tube, like the bucket but without a
 > > bottom, that allowed us to place it over the toilet, where it was
easier
 > for
 > > Dad to use because it was higher and had the tubular aluminum
had-grips.
 > >
 > > I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a
chamber
 > > pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it
over
 > > the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever
as a
 > > 'convenience' for the person once they're used to it. Dad didn't mind
 > using
 > > it as an adjunct to the toilet, but I think he'd have had *issues*
with it
 > > as something I had to empty for him.
 > >
 > > (My grandparents kept a cleaned-out gallon paint can under their bed
for
 > > nighttime calls of nature.)
 > >
 > > --
 > >
 > > Robert
 > >
 > >
 > >
 >
 >
Lee - 22 Jun 2004 22:02 GMT
I've had some success the last few days by dropping into her room with her
coffee & pills first thing in the morning - if it's been used, I just take
it away before she can object.

handling the pot is not and hasn't ever been a major problem for me - have
dealt with far more intimate things back when I worked with severely
physically disabled individuals... the issue is that I can not cope with HER
dumping it in the kitchen sink - or all over the bathroom counter.

>   Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when
> it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>   > few dishes, silverware, etc, and the dishcloth at the time..... prior to
>   > that, she's dumped it in the bathroom sink.... and got it all over the

>   > counter where my toothbrush, etc USED to be (we now have an up and out
> of
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>   >
>   >
Jo Ann Malina - 25 Jun 2004 05:31 GMT
Is it possible to chain the commode to the bed, so it can't be picked
up?  I don't mean a big clanky chain but maybe a thin bicycle chain
covered with vinyl.  I know the frame is separate from the "pot,"
which probably just lifts out.  But someone must have had this problem,
and there's probably a product out there somewhere to deal with it.
I keep hoping, anyway.

When Mom decided she was going to fix the toilet, I almost got a chain
to keep the lid on the tank, but a heavy radio/boom box did the trick.

I'm also having trouble with the bodily fluids and other contamination
of dishes and common surfaces (I'm trying not to get too detailed).
The only way to stop it is to follow her around.  I can't even lock
anything up, though I can hide things.  I'm going to get a locking file
cabinet for pills and things.  Maybe I will have to put the clean
silverware away, too!

Signature

Jo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address

Mary K Farrell <medfit2@san.rr.com> is alleged to have said:

>   Lee, it's difficult to handle ANY kind of pot (chamber or commode) when
> it's a mom or dad. Much easier if it's your spouse. I hated having to clean
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
>   >
>   >
Lee - 25 Jun 2004 22:53 GMT
sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of
thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that
slides under the bed... probably an antique - doubt there are many still (or
again) in use.

should be ~fun~ around here for a bit... took her to the doc today and she's
now on a diuretic. Her heart is failing... doctor very matter of factly said
she's already years past his prognosis, so no surprise to him.... she has a
very bad heart, and it's amazing that it's kept going this long ... now it's
failing..... as if it's something we all knew already.....was rather a large
~surprise~ to the rest of us that her heart is THAT bad though ...

was rather perturbed with him ... think he might have mentioned it, at LEAST
when we asked him about the optometrist's recommendation re: cataract
surgery .... why the **** would he say to go ahead if he's of the opinion
that she's already on borrowed time?  I raised it and he said "well they
don't use a general anaesthetic, so it wouldn't hurt her heart any". So
freakin' WHAT?  It would stress her out....  I don't see much point to
pursuing it.  He doubled her Rx for reminyl last time we saw him too.... is
there a point to THAT?

He was so (insert naughty words here) casual -  "she's in heart
failure...we'll try a diuretic, but she's already years past my
prognosis.... just keep her comfortable."

I asked what we're supposed to do when she's obviously having trouble -
short of breath, etc.... how long do we wait before we take her in / do
something....  he kinda shrugged and said "it's not necessary - not much to
be done for her - but you can"

From his attitude, none of this should be a surprise to us... and in fact, I
suspect that he thinks he's made it clear to the daughter that (used to) do
all the doctor's appointments - but she didn't ~get~ it, if he did tell her.

Anyway ... hasn't been the best day ever... but better we know than not...
and really, for her, probably a blessing

She's an independent, stubborn old cuss at heart... was, anyway ...  hates
the losses that she's aware of ...and she really don't know the half of it
anymore.  I'm sure if she could choose heart failure vs late stage Az,
......what a choice, eh?
Evelyn Ruut - 26 Jun 2004 03:40 GMT
> sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of
> thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> anymore.  I'm sure if she could choose heart failure vs late stage Az,
> ......what a choice, eh?

Lee, to me that'd be a no brainer.   I'd definitely take the nice quiet
heart failure.   Late stage Az seems to really be awful, especially on the
family.   Have you contacted Hospice?   She would probably qualify at this
point.   So sorry you are all going through this.

Getting old is definitely not for sissies, is it?   So far my mother in law
is doing quite well in the nursing home, but I know that if she was in her
right mind she would hate being this dependent and helpless.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Lee - 26 Jun 2004 04:55 GMT
thought (re: hospice) had crossed my mind .... more to help certain family
members cope than for my MIL....and maybe to help  get a bit more clarity
from the doctor.... I left there with a lot more questions than answers.....
my partner and I talked today about maybe making an appointment to go in and
talk to him.... without ma. I REALLY want more clarity, since I'm the one
that's most often with her - about what I'm supposed to DO... or not do, I
guess.... when she gets really bad .... one thing to let her go without
calling an ambulance or whatever if the doctor's said to (clearly, not just
alluded to it) ....AND if her family is in agreement ....quite another
without it being clearly stated .... (keeping in mind that I'm "just the
girlfriend" - I do most of the care because I happen to be more comfortable
with it ...but she's not my mother, and I don't get to make the decisions)

yesterday she seemed oblivious to everything...far more focussed on a
forgotten coat than on how she was feeling or what the doctor had to say
..... today was very clear about not wanting to be here alone for even a few
minutes ..... clingy/whiney ... not at all normal behaviour for her.  Don't
think she understands... but she ~knows~ .... if that makes any sense. Given
up the fight re: disposables as of today too - that's a relief!

good thing I didn't count on the home care provider to show up on time - she
was almost an hour late.... I was a ~tad~ perturbed....  normally I'd have
left shortly before she was due to show up ... if I'd done that today, would
have been a crisis. Don't think she'll do that without at least a phone call
again. Of course, she wouldn't have known that the situation had
changed drastically in the last few days.... but the reason they're
scheduled as they are is to make sure that meals and meds are covered, and
that she's never alone for more than an hour ....  t'was not acceptable.

Anyway ...we don't have any real indication of how long she has... just that
she's already on borrowed time ....her heart is "very bad" ....and it's
"amazing" that it's still working at all.....  so... guess we just keep on
keeping on for the time being....  funny, a week ago the fact that I'm
mostly unemployed for the summer was a calamity .... now it (almost) seems
it's a good thing..  If she's still with us when I start back to work more
hours in the fall, we'll deal... but in the meantime, we have a lot more
flexibility ....  can put her first... lots of time to sit and watch "those
animals" (geese on the lake) - or me fishing in the boat out in front of the
house -  and eat ice cream ...

Will have 3 of her 4 kids here on Sunday ....  chance to discuss things like
the eye appointment (I know, cancelling it is a no brainer - but so far I'm
the only one that's convinced of that --"we don't know how long she has,
after all" - and remember who's NOT the decision maker)  I'll bring up the
hospice thing then...  personally, I think tis a good idea even if we don't
have any real indication re: how long she's likely to hang in there. I'm
pretty good at supporting other people - years of practice - but to have
someone to call if/when it's time would make it a whole lot easier.

> > sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that type of
> > thing... though not for us, since hers has no frame.... just a pot that
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Evelyn Ruut - 27 Jun 2004 15:15 GMT
Lee, just wanted to wish you well today.   Good luck with the family in
discussing this situation.   I hope they agree to let hospice help them.
Hospice covers all the bases, from what I have heard.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

> thought (re: hospice) had crossed my mind .... more to help certain family
> members cope than for my MIL....and maybe to help  get a bit more clarity
[quoted text clipped - 120 lines]
> >
> > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Lee - 27 Jun 2004 15:31 GMT
talked to the daughter that's coming today on the phone yesterday .... her
thinking is the same as mine ... get more clarity from the doctor, check
into hospice, and cancel the eye appt - since I've already run that latter
suggestion by my partner and he thinks we should go ahead with at least the
evaluation, we then talked about "postponing" it for a month or two

now if we can just get the rest to agree...should be easier with the 2 of us
in agreement though

the diuretics seem to be helping.... early part of the day is really bad...
but by evening, once the fluids ease off,  she's able to be up and wandering
some, albeit slowly. Of course, since hubby works during the day, that's not
helping his perception

> Lee, just wanted to wish you well today.   Good luck with the family in
> discussing this situation.   I hope they agree to let hospice help them.
[quoted text clipped - 161 lines]
> > >
> > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Lee - 28 Jun 2004 01:16 GMT
went well.... although she has a rather unfortunate tendency to vote for
placement at the first indication of any problem - got the issue re: the
specialist appt. resolved - going to 'postpone it for the time being'

haven't talked to hubby about how their conversation went yet... just
leaving to walk up and meet him now ....

> talked to the daughter that's coming today on the phone yesterday .... her
> thinking is the same as mine ... get more clarity from the doctor, check
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
> > >
> > > > "Lee" <sleeplessinwherever@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:G91Dc.515063$Ar.256910@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> > > > > sounds like something my partner could rig up...he's good at that
> type
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> > > >
> > > > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
Howard Goldstein - 19 Jun 2004 23:45 GMT
:  I wonder if you might be able to acclimate your LO to it not as a chamber
:  pot, but first as a safety feature with the existing toilet - use it over
:  the toilet for a while, and then move it into the bedroom or wherever as a
:  'convenience' for the person once they're used to it.

FWIW I think the previous owners of our bracket used it over the
toilet as it didn't come with a bucket.  On the other hand the fact
there wasn't a bucket could be nicely explained by the previous
owners' kindness in tossing out ther smelly old bucket before they
left.

I desperately wanted to use the frame and seat sans bucket, over a
real toilet, but my LO person has over the months become so unsteady
on her feet (and undirect-able verbally) that it's just a lot harder
and scarier to try to safely maneuver her into the cramped area around
the toilets than it is just to help her on her feet and then to the
nearby seat+bucket.
 
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