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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / June 2004

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sleep regulation

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JP - 10 Jun 2004 13:47 GMT
Can anyone share advice to help regulate sleep for AD patients?

Currently (mum) will go to bed around 8:45 - 9pm and be wide awake at 3am.
Often  will shower and dress.  Its very unsettling for her husband who is
not well also with heart disease and emphysema and the constant disruption
in his sleep is having an affect on his health.
She is 75, he is 85.

She seems unable to stay up later.  Especially as she get tired her symptoms
become more apparent.  Or do you think its possible to move her body clock
to more 11 - 5 as she can have company till that hour.

Do many of you have similar situations? Any suggestions would be helpful.

thank you.
John
Evelyn Ruut - 10 Jun 2004 16:50 GMT
> Can anyone share advice to help regulate sleep for AD patients?
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> thank you.
> John

Hi John,

Sleep issues are one of the first things to become evident.   They lose
their sense of time, and day and night, and what things are supposed to
happen in the morning or in the evening.

We would give my mother in law all her medication at night for several
reasons.   First of all it made her sleep better, and secondly because if it
was given to her after dinner, there were less issues with tolerance of
those meds (some get an upset stomach from Aricept, for instance..)

For a time we gave her (with the doctors permission) a Tylenol PM every
night to help her sleep.  Also I know that benedryl is safe and can help
with sleep.   The Tylenol had some beneficial effects also, besides the
sleep issues.

It really helped towards keeping her days and nights straight, and allowed
us to have better nights with her.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Beth - 10 Jun 2004 16:59 GMT
John,  This specific issue was a major contributor to deciding to seek ALF
placement for my MIL.  The director told me that as the brain changes, so do
sleep patterns and it is very common for them to revert to 4-6 hour
awake-sleep cycles- almost no matter what you do.

We struggled to keep my MIL up until 8:30 at night and then sometimes she
would still be up and ready to go to DayCare at 3:30 AM.  No amount of
reasoning would pursued her otherwise.  At first it was anxiety and using an
antidepressant helped.  A few months later, the doctor added Zyprexa and
that helped for 5 months before we were back where we started.  We were
unable to continue and keep working a good day, so that combined with her
apathy and lack of interest in anything prompted us to proceed a bit before
we had planned.

At the ALF-she came alive and could sleep whenever she wanted.  This pleased
her very much and was what she gained as she lost the ability to know who I
was.

The typical things you've probably been trying-regular routine with social
stimulation, daytime programming, familiarity, etc. Sleeping meds are an
option, but often have not-so-good consequences.  The reality is that
eventually nothing is successful and you're forced to work with them the way
they are.

Do what you need to do to allow her husband his rest.  In the home, you can
hire night sitters-but the elderly often resist "strangers" coming in.

Best wishes
Beth
Mare - 10 Jun 2004 23:47 GMT
Hi John,
She might need a nap during the day because she is overwhelmed by
to much activity. It might not be what we would call to much
activity but those with AD are easily overwhelmed by things we
don't notice. We used to let my Mom nap in her chair when she
needed to. Also there is melatonin. We used 1/4 to 1/2 of a 3mg
pill during different periods of time. I found one(at drugstore)
that was time released so Mom slept thru the night. When we tried
it the research showed the best way to use it was not the whole
pill and only for a few weeks at a time to re-regulate her sleep
cycle. Below is a link to the latest research.
http://www.alzforum.org/dis/tre/drc/detail.asp?id=52
You won't know until you try it.
Signature

Mare
mfcoleman@THEOLEmindspring.com
http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm
alt.support.alzheimers' FAQs and Stuff Pages

> Can anyone share advice to help regulate sleep for AD patients?
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> thank you.
> John
JP - 11 Jun 2004 00:36 GMT
Dear Evelyn, Beth and Mare,.

It's difficult to explain, but my mother does not know she has AD.  She is
Italian who was forced to work (because of war and poverty) at the age of
10.  Moving to Australia in her early 20's, and because of language barriers
and also a culture that saw her in the home raising kids etc.  She never
really grew to develop a lot of involved thinking.  She's not unintelligent,
just never had many opportunities. (Great with languages)  But, she does not
fully understand what she has.  She just knows she's not well and that she
forgets a lot, gets emotional etcShes been diagnosed now for 1.5 years.  She
has lived a very uncomplicated and simple life.

I know this may sound strange, but, would you sit down and explain her
condition to her?

We are loving and caring people, a close family.  Please do not misinterpret
any of the above.

All the best,

John

> Hi John,
> She might need a nap during the day because she is overwhelmed by
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> > thank you.
> > John
Evelyn Ruut - 11 Jun 2004 00:47 GMT
> Dear Evelyn, Beth and Mare,.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> John

Dear John,

I understand completely, believe me.

My mother in law never quite understood what she had, even though we DID
have a sit down talk with her on more than one occasion.

You see, you can tell her what she has, but she won't remember it tomorrow
or maybe even not ten minutes from now.   No matter how many times you tell
her, she will forget it just as quickly as the words are gone from your
lips.  This is why all the experts recommend working with them on a minute
by minute basis.   There is no longer any frame of reference for them.

My mother in law only went to the 5th grade in school.  She came to the USA
from Estonia in the 1940's and worked in the garment district as a
seamstress, so I assure you I do understand.  She kept to her own
nationality for the most part and never really became very fluent in
English.

Her only living relative was her sister (who died before she was diagnosed),
and of course her son, my husband with whom she lived for the last few
years.

Have you read the book called "the 36 hour day" yet?   It is VERY helpful.
Do you have your mom enrolled in a day care program?   Do you have an
alzheimer caregivers support group anywhere near you?   These are all things
that helped me enormously in our own little journey.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Mare - 11 Jun 2004 01:37 GMT
Hi John,
Always remember you know her best. We can offer advice but you
know your Mom  and can gauge her reactions better than we can. I
think all of us have gone thru the "do we tell/remind our LO
question". My own opinion is that I'd want to know at least once
or twice;~) But if I get extremely upset or agitated then my
comfort and well being is being compromised so it isn't worth it.
She might be reassured to know she has an organic/physical
problem to blame the forgetting on. Unfortunately most people
don't react that way. My Mom could not remeber my Dad had passed
and kept asking about him. The first couple of times this
happened we told her he had passed but she was hearing for the
first time, in her reality, every time we said it. So we stopped
and just made excuses about where/how he was. Weird for us but
reassuring for Mom. Like Evelyn said read "The 36 hour Day". It's
comforting in a we aren't the only ones going thru this way.
Signature

Mare
mfcoleman@THEOLEmindspring.com
http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm
alt.support.alzheimers' FAQs and Stuff Pages

> Dear Evelyn, Beth and Mare,.
>
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> > > thank you.
> > > John
turkey in the straw - 11 Jun 2004 04:14 GMT
Mare,
  My mom too can't remember my dad is passed.It's been a year and
barely a day goes by she doesn't ask where he is.And sometimes accuses
us of lying and gets angry.But i find if i just make something up she
gets so mad cause he's not home.And says he is out drinking again which
he did years ago.You almost have to try to have a feel for which answer
is best at the time.

If I call you a fool,
Doesn't mean your a fool
It Only means
I'm a person with a need to Judge!
Mare - 11 Jun 2004 05:17 GMT
Oh yeah you have to figure out what will make her not
apprehensive. Sounds like you're at a tougher stage with your
Mom. At this point my Mom doesn't remember she has kids never
mind a husband. I've been calling her by her first name for a few
years now. She does give me a big smile when I see her cause I'm
the ice cream lady;~) And boy does she love her ice cream!!!
She's still got something to teach I guess.
Signature

Mare
mfcoleman@THEOLEmindspring.com
http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm
alt.support.alzheimers' FAQs and Stuff Pages

> Mare,
>    My mom too can't remember my dad is passed.It's been a year and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> It Only means
> I'm a person with a need to Judge!
Beth - 11 Jun 2004 03:52 GMT
John,  I concur with Mare and Evelyn.  You may have to give it a go for your
own peace of mind.  Just a reminder that many of our older folks cannot make
much sense out of terms now in use-like Alzheimers, cognitive impairment,
daycare, assisted living.  If we'd had that talk with my MIL the terms would
have meant nothing to her.  It just wasn't within her realm of experience.

Also, a common characteristic is that to the person afflicted there really
is nothing wrong with them.  It's the rest of us that are the problem.
Little insight as they say.  Actually that's a blessing at times.  But I
continue to be frustrated by her inability to understand that there are
consequences to her choices or behaviors.  Classic Marion is insisting on
having a jacket on to go outside now and then fussing about how hot she is-
as if it's my fault.  Asking prior to going out or telling her it's hot
means nothing.  Forbidding the jacket causes a scene-so you just go along
and be non-committal.  She has been unable to absorb any discussion of her
problems for over 3 years now.  She did know that she was letting her son
handle things-and that saved us from quite a lot of grief I think.

You know her best.  Follow your heart.  One of the good things is there's
usually other chances to alter what you tell her-depending on her response.
You just might get it "right"!  But if our experience is the usual-that need
is for you , not her.  You want to so badly get her approval and
understanding about why you have to make the decisions you do.  It doesn't
happen.  In hindsight, you figure it out.  But at the moment...you do the
best you can with what you have.

Beth
 
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