Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / May 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Advice Needed About Mum (UPDATE)

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Far - 20 May 2004 01:15 GMT
Just to update you on this...

I spoke to my (and indeed mum's) Doctor on the phone earlier this morning
after suggestions from several of you to find out *exactly* what she is
suffering from. I asked straight out if she had dementia and he said "no,
just a loss of brain power" which I find quite bizzare. He said mum's
aggressiveness was probably due to her being unable to cope with stressful
situations due to this (her sister unfortunately passed away recently tho
she has been put on amitriptyline to help with this), but she had started to
become aggressive both before starting the amitriptyline and even before her
sister died. I have to say I am most unhappy with his answers and will see
what options I have open to me.

On a different note, I had a very comforting and reassuring chat with the
local branch of the Alzheimer's society. The lady on the end of the phone
listened to me, and whilst she admitted she was not medically qualified, she
said it sounded like multi-infarct dementia. She said the GP should refer
her to "elderly psychiatrist" who can evaluate her and get her started on
approprtiate medications.

I shall update you all if there is further news.

Regards,
Far

"Far" <farhanm@ARRRGHhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gOGdnYMho4B2wjzdRVn-sQ@nildram.net...
> Hi
>
> I have posted once before to this group about my mum. In 2003 after she
> vomitted a lot and felt dizzy continuously more or less for 4 days, she
was
> admitted to hospital. In the first hour or two of this stay, whilst in A&E
> (the UK equivalent of ER) she lapsed into what I can only call a
> semi-concious state. She had a fixed stare ahead and was unresponsive to
> commands apart from some mumbling. She recovered from this over 4 hours
but
> ever since she's not been the same and has slowly detoriorated. It started
> off with memory problems and she also became more aggressive.
>
> During this stay she had an MRI brain scan and was referred to a
neurologist
> who
> she saw in June after I pressed my GP about mum's unusual behaviours. The
GP
> said the MRI scan showed degeneration but nothing more. The neurologist
said
> she had suffered several mini-strokes and this was probably responsible
for
> her
> (then) recent memory problems. He ordered a follow up MRI scan, which she
> had in July, and a follow up visit to see him in late Novemeber. At this
> visit he explained the 2nd scan had shown new mini-strokes as he expected,
> so he discharged her from his care with strict instructions to her GP to
> take more care of her blood pressure, cholesterol and triglycerides. She's
> had a history of high cholesterol since at least 1990, blood pressure on
and
> off since 1978 and more especially since 1990 and her triglycerides were
> recorded as being high as 2003, although the problem probably existed
before
> this. She also had a major stroke during an angiography procedure that
went
> wrong in 1991 which left her with partial sight although no other problems
> occurred then.
>
> She has now started to become more and more aggressive. Her short term
> memory is more or less the same, but she has warped stories that have
> happened in the past so that my father is blamed. She also often accuses
him
> of thieving money, buying prostitutes and even talks about sex in front of
> me - all very uncharacteristic behaviours. She is also becoming physically
> abusive towards dad to such an extent I am beginning to fear what may
> happen.
>
> I have been back to the Doctor about her suspicious behaviours - for
example
> where she thinks money has been stolen by dad - and he puts it down to
mum's
> memory problems. He also said, and I am quoting him directly, that mum
"will
> slowly get worse over time, however it's not like Alzheimer's (disease)
> where the
> progression to death is rapid - less than 2 years". He also said mum would
> have
> good days and mum would have bad. I am simply asking first of all what to
do
> next about mum's recent violent behvaiour and if this sounds like vascular
> dementia.
> If it is why would the Doctor not be naming it directly and merely be
> describing it's
> symptoms?
Evelyn Ruut - 20 May 2004 02:05 GMT
> Just to update you on this...
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Regards,
> Far

Sounds to me like your doctor is rather eccentric or for some reason he
really doesn't know.   Your intuition is right on.   You need a real
diagnosis, not nonsense talk.

Best of luck to you.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Far - 20 May 2004 13:18 GMT
Just to update you on this further, I saw the Doc this morning and explained
mum's more extreme behaviours. He now wants me to come with mum and tell her
in front of him that I am worried about her behaviour. He now says it's
"probably not dementia" as opposed to it definitely not being but he says he
can test further if I go with mum. I am dreading this since I currently liev
with mum :( Any tips on what to do next?

Regards,
Far

> > Just to update you on this...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> Best of luck to you.
Evelyn Ruut - 20 May 2004 14:35 GMT
> Just to update you on this further, I saw the Doc this morning and explained
> mum's more extreme behaviours. He now wants me to come with mum and tell her
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Regards,
> Far

OK a few ideas crossed my mind here.  I will just run them all past you.

You could change doctors.   Apparently this one seems to think you are
trying to disenfranchise your mother somehow, rather than to protect her.
He is being very cagey about any chance of his stepping over the line and
working with YOU rather than with HER.

There probably is some cause for a doctor to protect himself and his
confidentiality obligations with his patient, and that may just be his
agenda here.  He is being especially careful about treading on toes and
going over her head.

So let's say that if you DO go with your mother, and perhaps bring a log or
a list of events or circumstances or behaviors that gave you cause for
concern in the first place, and it is discussed in his office with the three
of you there, perhaps he could convince her to go for the diagnostics she
needs and it would satisfy his sensibilities about his obligations to her
and her legal privacy, as well as working with you and your concerns.

There are simple tests he could do right in his office at his own desk with
her, that might give him some clues to her mental state.   The clock face
drawing test, and also the one where they give a sequence of simple
directions to the patient (for instance).   Maybe he wants to give her those
simple tests in front of you and with her as a part of it.

Then again it might not go that way at all.  You won't know unless you try.

If she really is developing some sort of serious deficiencies you will
probably need her cooperation in getting tested.   Going with and through
her doctor and with her being a part of her own process of being diagnosed
is probably the safest route for everyone both legally and emotionally.

In any it would seem he is covering his own accountability in this case,
believing that he is acting (even though it may not be) in the best interest
of his patient (your mother).

How would YOU feel about it if it were you?   Wouldn't you prefer a
conference WITH your doctor and your child?   This could simply be his way
of having you both in his presence and not going behind her back just in
case she really ISN'T developing any cognitive problems.

Maybe we are all borrowing trouble here and worrying for nothing.

If it turns out that he doesn't do anything, doesn't even attempt to
diagnose her properly, and denial seems to be where it is going, then you
can always take another approach later on by getting another doctor or
looking for alternatives.

Are you aware that if he DOESN'T pay attention to legitimate symptoms, he
could be opening himself to some liability too?

A lot of doctors these days are VERY careful where any legal issues could
come up.  This could be it, you know.   He could be overly cautious.  It
seems that way to me, especially in his careful avoidance of certain
terminology with you.

So those are my thoughts on it, and it is just my own take.... do what you
think is best.

If it was me, I would go with her and have my list of concerns ready no
matter what.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

> > > Just to update you on this...
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> >
> > Best of luck to you.
Evelyn Ruut - 20 May 2004 14:42 GMT
And I just wanted to add one more thought to what I wrote;

If he DOESN'T administer any kind of simple testing, or at least pay
attention to what you are seeing with her, your NEXT appointment should be
with a lawyer.

THEN get a new doctor.

Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Far - 20 May 2004 17:02 GMT
>"Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:du2rc.49257$mX.18528227@twister.nyc.rr.com...

> OK a few ideas crossed my mind here.  I will just run them all past you.

You made quite a few good points so I am going to try answering them in
turn:

> You could change doctors.   Apparently this one seems to think you are
> trying to disenfranchise your mother somehow, rather than to protect her.
> He is being very cagey about any chance of his stepping over the line and
> working with YOU rather than with HER.

This is an interesting point since he has admitted that what she is saying
"isn't right" so he does seem to admit mum is not well.

> So let's say that if you DO go with your mother, and perhaps bring a log or
> a list of events or circumstances or behaviors that gave you cause for
> concern in the first place, and it is discussed in his office with the three
> of you there, perhaps he could convince her to go for the diagnostics she
> needs and it would satisfy his sensibilities about his obligations to her
> and her legal privacy, as well as working with you and your concerns.

Another interesting possibility. My father has also been to the doctor as
well. He mentioned mum's more aggressive behaviours and he even told me my
dad had told him this, so I don't understand why he'd want to protect mum's
privacy more than my dad's. Another example is mum was recently depressed (I
knew this) but he again told me that mum had told him she was depressed.

> There are simple tests he could do right in his office at his own desk with
> her, that might give him some clues to her mental state.   The clock face
> drawing test, and also the one where they give a sequence of simple
> directions to the patient (for instance).   Maybe he wants to give her those
> simple tests in front of you and with her as a part of it.

Mum knows her memory is failing - as I said in my earlier posts she was
referred to a neurologist because of this and the MRI scan showing mini
strokes. Yet interestingly, neither the GP nor the neurologist has performed
a MMSE or the clock drawing part of the test with mum - a worry since I
guess there's no reliable quantifiable way of charting how worse mum has
become since being referred to the neurologist first over 13 months ago
now.....

> How would YOU feel about it if it were you?   Wouldn't you prefer a
> conference WITH your doctor and your child?   This could simply be his way
> of having you both in his presence and not going behind her back just in
> case she really ISN'T developing any cognitive problems.

I'm not sure this is really the case here, since at the very least she is
suffering from mini strokes which have caused definite memory problems.

<snip>

> If it was me, I would go with her and have my list of concerns ready no
> matter what.

I might do this but I shall give it a few weeks and see if I can pluck up
the courage. As I said, I live with mum and dad; if there's any possibility
that this could cause more than some increase in tension, it could make
things at home even more difficult than they are now. I promise to keep you
all updated on whatever happens tho.

Regards,
Far
Evelyn Ruut - 20 May 2004 17:14 GMT
> >"Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:du2rc.49257$mX.18528227@twister.nyc.rr.com...
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> Regards,
> Far

After reading your replies I DEFINITELY think that your doctor is not
properly doing his job.   He is letting your mother down.   She deserves a
proper and full diagnosis and whatever treatment is indicated.

You need to get her to another doctor ASAP and maybe even consult a lawyer
about this doctor neglecting his job where your mother's well being is
concerned.
Signature

Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

Dennis P. Harris - 21 May 2004 03:57 GMT
> Yet interestingly, neither the GP nor the neurologist has performed
> a MMSE or the clock drawing part of the test with mum - a worry since I
> guess there's no reliable quantifiable way of charting how worse mum has
> become since being referred to the neurologist first over 13 months ago
> now.....

she nees to see a GERIATRIC PSYCHIATRIST who will perform the
MMSE and some other cognition and memory tests.

ask for a referral, then get a new GP ASAP.
Dalesdomain@webtv.net - 20 May 2004 14:41 GMT
That's a tough one, Far.  Not sure that I like the doctor wanting you to
express your concerns about your mother in front of her and the doctor.
Seems to me that invites a confrontation where both you and your mother
may feel like you're being put on the defensive.  What is the doctor
going to do?  Be the referee?  The psychiatrist?  I'm just going by my
instincts here, but it just doesn't seem right to me.
Songbird - 20 May 2004 14:45 GMT
Simple: Find a new doctor. This man thinks you have some sort of problem and
is trying to do quasi-family counseling. Get to a real doctor -- the faster,
the better.

Songbird

> Just to update you on this further, I saw the Doc this morning and explained
> mum's more extreme behaviours. He now wants me to come with mum and tell her
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> >
> > Best of luck to you.
OcnGypZ - 20 May 2004 18:07 GMT
>Subject: Re: Advice Needed About Mum (UPDATE)

>Just to update you on this further, I saw the Doc this morning and explained
>mum's more extreme behaviours. He now wants me to come with mum and tell her
>in front of him that I am worried about her behaviour.

Well.. at least you got that far with your mother's doctor.  My mother's doctor
won't even return phone calls!  My mother refuses to see any other
doctor......and hostility is putting it mildly.

At least the social worker from the Dept of Elderly Affairs is due to arrive
tomorrow... after three postponed visits.

The difficult part is if the LO refuses treatment or help, they can't be forced
unless you obtain guardianship.  And even then, psychiatric help... won't
help.. unless the LO is willing to cooperate.  Although I have my mother's
durable medical POA.. it still is of no use, until she is declared
incapacitated by the court.

Babette
Dennis P. Harris - 21 May 2004 03:59 GMT
> Well.. at least you got that far with your mother's doctor.  My mother's doctor
> won't even return phone calls!  

then camp in his office until the receptionist will make an
appointment for you to see him to discuss your mother's problems!
Dennis P. Harris - 21 May 2004 03:54 GMT
> Just to update you on this further, I saw the Doc this morning and explained
> mum's more extreme behaviours. He now wants me to come with mum and tell her
> in front of him that I am worried about her behaviour. He now says it's
> "probably not dementia" as opposed to it definitely not being but he says he
> can test further if I go with mum. I am dreading this since I currently liev
> with mum :( Any tips on what to do next?

GET HER A NEW DOCTOR ***NOW***!
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.