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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / April 2004Signs of trouble? (new poster)
My mother (84 years old) and I share a house. She's been quite active and functional in recent years, but lately some things have caught my attention and I guess I've got reason to worry. Her mother had Alzheimer's, but became symptomatic in her mid-seventies, dying at the age of 81. Although a tremendous amount of love is there, we don't get along all that well (ever!), so it's difficult to know if her anger at things is truly directed at me, is a symptom of AD paranoia, or just normal aging anxiety. One problem that comes up constantly in recent times is her little household accidents (spillages, damaging equipment, breaking things, etc., along with the rather normal losing of items) that she insists I am responsible for. Today, for instance, she insisted I must have spilled something that ended up flooding the kitchen floor, because, as she puts it, "if I did it I would have known and I would have cleaned it up." (I know I didn't do it.....) Also today, she tried very hard to justify using a handful of ordinary metal paper clips to close her broken-zipper lingerie bag that she then ran through the washing machine (I discovered this when I unloaded it for her...the pantyhose hadn't stayed in the bag anyway....!). Some of her comments: "I haven't had a chance to buy a new bag;" "They're not my good pantyhose." When I mentioned to her that the washer itself could become seriously damaged, not to mention the other clothing in the machine, she blew up and told me I was treating her badly. Do these few things, taken on their own, sound suspicious? Because I'm another woman, she's always had a hard time trusting my ability to operate things, fix things, analyze mechanical problems (all of which I'm quite good at) since it was my dad who handled that kind of activity. But it's also a competitive thing, which seems to have gotten out of hand, moreso in recent months. I just don't know how much is truly personality conflict and how much of this could be a serious indication of AD. (BTW, there is no chance at this point that I could get her to see a specialist for such issues.) So sorry for the length of this, my first post to the group. Thanks for any responses.... Carole (Ipomoea@aol.com) Hello, I am also new. My Mom is 79, we began noticing her doing strange things after my Dad passed away in 1997. I wonder now if we overlooked things she was saying and doing when my Dad was getting worse and blamed it on the stress she had taking care of him. My brother lives at Mom's place, he's had to deal with it on his own, since I live in another state, our other brother doesn't seem to care. He had to put her in the hospital last night, she couldn't walk and her legs were swollen. We know she needs to be in a rest home, my brother has been trying to figure out the financial end of it, neither of us have ever dealt with anything like this before and really don't know what to do. He hasn't had a life for 3 or 4 years now, and it's not fair to him. He works full time as my husband and I do. I think he feels guilty to be thinking of putting her in a home, I feel guilty also, I can't afford to give up my job to be a full time caregiver and it's to the point she shouldn' be left alone. I'm going over tomorrow to see what we need to do. Thanks for listening. Hi Delores, Welcome to the group. It breaks my heart when new posters arrive here because I know how difficult and confusing it can seem in the beginning when you haven't got a real diagnosis to work with or any of the legal angles in place, yet you know without a doubt that a person you love is showing some signs of a serious illness. Don't feel guilty. That is one thing pretty much all of us who post here agree on as being a useless emotion in this situation. You do what you have to do to see that your loved one is safe and cared for. Not everyone can be a full time caregiver. We tried it for the last three years and we are certainly well over the worst part of it, but I can tell you it can be exhausting and draining and depressing. It can also be rewarding and provide a sense of accomplishment, but it absolutely isn't for everyone. This group has been wonderful over the last three years. I have no idea what I would have done without my friends here.  SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > Hello, I am also new. > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Thanks for listening. > We know she needs to be in a rest home, my brother has been trying to > figure out the financial end of it, neither of us have ever dealt with > anything like this before and really don't know what to do. if she has no money, medicAID (not medicare) will pay for long term care. you and your brother are *not* financially responsible for her care. > He hasn't had a life for 3 or 4 years now, and it's not fair to him. He > works full time as my husband and I do. I think he feels guilty to be > thinking of putting her in a home, I feel guilty also, I can't afford to > give up my job to be a full time caregiver and it's to the point she > shouldn' be left alone. he shouldn't feel guilty. we don't allow guilt here when folks just do what *must* be done to keep the person safe when they can no longer do it themselves. she will be getting skilled care 24/7, and the caregivers will be able to go home and rest after 8 hours, unlike family. the time you spend with her can then be *quality* time. NO GUILT ALLOWED. > > We know she needs to be in a rest home, my brother has been trying to > > figure out the financial end of it, neither of us have ever dealt with [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > term care. you and your brother are *not* financially > responsible for her care. Dennis, You need to be careful about saying this. Some states do in fact have statutes about parental support. They don't provide the same stringent guidelines as for child support, but they do require some level of culpability from child to parent. That's why it's so impoetant to get legal counsel to see what your state requires. My experience with Namenda is that it does heighten there awareness.Only problem is it heightens it in their own little world.My mom now is up til12 am,wondering where her damm husband is.See he used to drink and sometimes not come home at all till morning.And she's gonna stay up till he gets here cause she's gonna give him hell.She's wanting to fix him dinner cause he will be home soon and want something to eat.And she's not even up to the full amount yet. So I am not sure this Namenda is a good thing.Anyone else having this experience? > Only > problem is it heightens it in their own little world. if she's having delusions, there are meds to deal with that. talk to her doc. She's already on meds for dillusions. > She's already on meds for dillusions. We went through the delusions with Ida for a long time. Finally they began to lessen, but only when her own brainpower began to lessen. The meds for the delusions made her so goofy she was barely able to walk. We backed off on them to some degree from the prescribed amount in order to preserve better motor skills, but then of course the delusions got worse again. It is a fine line and this is a rotten illness. SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > She's already on meds for dillusions. then you need to talk to her doc about either adjusting the dosage or changing to another med. what is she taking now? Dennis, My mom takes Zyprexa Barb, I continue to have very mixed feelings about Namenda. I am wondering right now if it is backing my Mom up into a previous stage in her AD that was not good. We tried Memantine in the late fall (purchased from Europe because it wasn't on the market in the US yet). We stopped after 5 or 6 weeks because coincidentally with the beginning of the medicine, she became very agitated, and also we didn't see any positive difference. Folks in this group had some good points about how some medicines take 2-3 months to really work, so we decided to give it another try. This past week we may have been seeing some benefits, in that my mother was a little more conversational. She is just about to Stage 7 according to Dr. Alzheimer's scale, having become incontinent and having almost completely lost her ability to speak. This past week she initiated a few sentences on her own that actually made sense. However, it has not helped the incontinence. She has also reverted to some previous and undesireable behaviors such as pacing around constantly and compulsively trying to move things around. Frankly, I think that my mother is too far gone for Namenda to really supply the kind of benefits such as being able to live on their own, take care of herself, that the studies and advertisements point to. If we had had it 2 years ago, things could have perhaps been different. Although Namenda is touted for moderate to severe Alzheimers, I think it would be better applied to mild to moderate AD. By the time folks reach the later stages, there are just too many negative things going on. Sorry to sound so negative on this, but think in terms of quality of life. I don't think Namenda has really improved my mother's quality of life, nor even the quality of her caregivers' lives. Jennie > My experience with Namenda is that it does heighten there awareness.Only > problem is it heightens it in their own little world.My mom now is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > So I am not sure this Namenda is a good thing.Anyone else having > this experience? > Sorry to sound so negative on this, but think in terms of quality of life. > I don't think Namenda has really improved my mother's quality of life, nor > even the quality of her caregivers' lives. drugs that are helpful at some stages may have the reverse result at others. you have to do what's right for her and her situation. Jenny, I don't think Namenda is supposed to make them able to live alone.What it has done for my mom so far is not positive for any of us.But i am gonna give it a bit longer.It seems to be helping a little in the last few days so i am hopeful.Barb > You need to be careful about saying this. Some states do in fact have > statutes about parental support. ah, i was unaware of that. does anyone know which ones? i know that alaska doesn't. > > You need to be careful about saying this. Some states do in fact have > > statutes about parental support. > > ah, i was unaware of that. does anyone know which ones? i know > that alaska doesn't. Meeting with an attorney Monday to make sure what SC law is. Will let you know. Songbird Songbird, where in SC do you live? My daughter lives in Beaufort. Gwen Signature*************************************************************************** *** "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." - George Elliot *************************************************************************** *** | > > You need to be careful about saying this. Some states do in fact have | > > statutes about parental support. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Songbird I'm about as far from Beaufort as you can get -- Rock Hill, just south of Charlotte (NC). But my hometown is Charleston. Songbird > Songbird, where in SC do you live? My daughter lives in Beaufort. > Gwen *************************************************************************** > *** > "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." > - George Elliot *************************************************************************** > *** > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > | > | Songbird Both my daughter's sons graduated from college in Rock Hill, and one now lives in Charlotte. Small world. Gwen Signature*************************************************************************** *** "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." - George Elliot *************************************************************************** *** | I'm about as far from Beaufort as you can get -- Rock Hill, just south of | Charlotte (NC). But my hometown is Charleston. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | > Songbird, where in SC do you live? My daughter lives in Beaufort. | > Gwen *************************************************************************** | > *** | > "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." | > - George Elliot *************************************************************************** | > *** | > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | > | | > | Songbird Which probably means Winthrop, from which I received my graduate degree and where I taught business. It IS a small world, which, as my mom used to say, means a lady must BEE-have. S > Both my daughter's sons graduated from college in Rock Hill, and one now > lives in Charlotte. Small world. > Gwen *************************************************************************** > *** > "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." > - George Elliot *************************************************************************** > *** > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > | > Songbird, where in SC do you live? My daughter lives in Beaufort. > | > Gwen *************************************************************************** > | > *** > | > "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles." > | > - George Elliot *************************************************************************** > | > *** > | > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > | > | > | > | Songbird > > You need to be careful about saying this. Some states do in fact have > > statutes about parental support. > > ah, i was unaware of that. does anyone know which ones? i know > that alaska doesn't. I'm pretty sure California is one. Arizona may be another. It's only a handful of states. But if you happen to live in one with the statute saying 'refusal to support an elderly and/or disabled parent is abuse,' then you need to know that in advance. Adelle >My mother (84 years old) and I share a house. She's been quite active and >functional in recent years, but lately some things have caught my attention and >I guess I've got reason to worry. Her mother had Alzheimer's, but became >symptomatic in her mid-seventies, dying at the age of 81. <snipped> Carol, it sure sounds to me like exactly the kind of initial symptoms one expects from dementia. Particularly this, if you think about it: >Today, for >instance, she insisted I must have spilled something that ended up flooding the >kitchen floor, because, as she puts it, "if I did it I would have known and I >would have cleaned it up." (I know I didn't do it.....) The anger is probably a defensive reaction. My mother, who was always somewhat suspicious of others due to her life experiences, became even more unreasonable in her paranoia and anger and accusations. I imagine that those of us whose parents were always somewhat cantankerous to a degree don't notice the personality change the way others do. You know, you don't necessarily have to get her to a specialist first thing. Does she have a primary care doc, maybe an internist or G.P.? Can you get her to any doctors' appointments at all? Any physician could probably do a mini mental status exam with her. ~Des >From: Des >Date: Tue, Apr 13, 2004 8:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >cantankerous to a degree don't notice the personality change the way >others do. Exactly. It's hard to know just how much is simply the exacerbation of an already existing personality trait due to aging and/or depression. >You know, you don't necessarily have to get her to a specialist first >thing. Does she have a primary care doc, maybe an internist or G.P.? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >~Des The amazing situation is that my mother goes to doctors ALL the time. She rarely has less than one appointment a week with one of her many different doctors, or tests, or phonecalls...... She's always had health obsessions (as long as I can remember, confirmed by other family members), but has been fortunate to have had very few real problems. In fact, she needed angioplasty last year, and that was the first real bout of illness she had to deal with, and the procedure was deemed an unequivocal success. Some of her doctors think her health concerns are exaggerated and that she cries wolf a bit too much. Recently, though, one of her many doctors did phone me to say he had some concerns for her "mentation." He didn't make any recommendations for a work-up. He felt she was responding to some questions "inappropriately" but he wasn't convinced that it wasn't her hearing impairment (age-related) that caused this. This does give me a great deal of trouble in evaluating her responses to things, because even with a hearing aid, she does miss a lot and will often respond inappropriately because of this. I'm going to call one of her regular docs who'll she'll see next week, and ask if he can perform that mini exam you mention. I don't usually accompany her to doctors (as you can see from above, it would be almost a full-time job!), so I haven't addressed the issue directly with him. Many thanks for your response. I'm so very grateful for your informed input. Carole Carole, There is dementia associated with reduced blood flow to the brain resulting from either stroke or vascular/coronary artery disease. If your Mom has had angioplasty, oxygen depravation related dementia would not be out of the realm of possibility. SignatureAdelle D. Stavis, Esq. > >From: Des > >Date: Tue, Apr 13, 2004 8:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Carole Dear Carole, Welcome to the group. Yes it sounds like trouble. My mother in law was living with her sister and she treated her HORRIBLY for a long time while this illness was brewing. Nobody knew it but her poor sister couldn't understand why she was being treated this way and must have suffered quite a lot. We only discovered my mother in law was having memory problems after her sister died. She has been living with us for the last three years and her illness has progressed quite a lot in that time in spite of everything we have done to keep it at bay. But we can only imagine what she put her sister through in that time prior to her being diagnosed. Paranoia, losing or breaking things and blaming others for it is typical. Emotional outbursts and anger are also typical because the person has NO idea what is wrong with them! Imagine, it must be like living with gremlins who do things when you aren't around because you don't remember them happening. Your mom probably needs to get a complete gerontological workup to diagnose what is exactly wrong if you can manage to get her to go. There are some forms of dementia that are treatable, and it is certainly worth checking to find out. It could be something as simple as thyroid problems or it could also be alzheimers. You could gently broach the subject with her doctor. In the meantime you might want to keep a log of some of the more obvious incidents with dates and details. You may find it very telling. SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > My mother (84 years old) and I share a house. She's been quite active and > functional in recent years, but lately some things have caught my attention and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Carole > (Ipomoea@aol.com) >From: "Evelyn Ruut" mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com >Date: Tue, Apr 13, 2004 9:01 PM [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >- Thanks so much for your response, Evelyn. I just posted a response to Des, which will cover some of the issues you raised, particularly about doctors. In fact, I did just start keeping a log of her behavior and incidents, so I'll have it to refer to; I know it can be important. Thanks for emphasizing that. One of the hardest things right now is to restrain myself and not respond to her anger in kind. We've always had some good/bad give-and-take sessions but now I worry that I'll become angry and defensive myself at behavior she has no control over. If she is ill, I understand that it can be a long road, and there's no point in jumping ahead when there are still things that can be dealt with reasonably. I'm so glad to know that there are sources of support, like this, so close at hand. Thanks again.... Carole > Thanks so much for your response, Evelyn. I just posted a response to Des, > which will cover some of the issues you raised, particularly about doctors. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks again.... > Carole Hi Carole, It is VERY hard not to react to accusations and irrational behavior, especially when it is someone close to you. I know how it is. Keeping that log is going to be helpful. You need to talk to yourself every day and keep remembering that they are in an unknown land now, and their accusations and paranoia are coming from a real organic brain disease. May I suggest a couple of other things? Make sure you have all the legal stuff taken care of. Will, living will, health care proxy, all of that stuff. We went to a lawyer who was a specialist in elder law who took care of everything for us. Keep coming here with your thoughts. There are more who lurk than who post and our posts help many others cope too. (off to watch Tru Calling now :-) SignatureRegards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox") > One problem > that comes up constantly in recent times is her little household accidents > (spillages, damaging equipment, breaking things, etc., along with the rather > normal losing of items) that she insists I am responsible for. T been there, done that. you might try hiding a video camera and let it record for a few hours at a time of day that seems to be the worse for these kinds of problems. with my mom, it was almost always late afternoon & early evening. it's pretty hard to deny video evidence. one thing that you have to remember is that folks with dementias rarely have any insight into their problem. they simply can't remember that they can't remember. it may be because they keep hoping that it's everyone else, not them. it may be because they fear losing control. it may be because they don't want anyone to know that they can't remember because they might be "put away". the best thing to do is to get her to the doctor on *any* pretense, and ask the doc in advance to refer her to a geriatric psychiatrist or neurologist for a *full* exam, physical and mental. they will do some tests which can reveal dementias even if the patient is trying to hide it, as well as physical tests to help determine the cause, which could be anything from adverse drug reactions or drug underdose/overdose to thyroid to tumors to strokes. >So sorry for the length of this, my first post to the group. Thanks for any >responses.... >Carole Hi Carole, Welcome to the group that no one wants to join (I think I stole this line from Evelyn). I can't offer much other than a "yes" to the advice that everyone has offered; however, I'll make a trivial comment on your email address...Ipomoea--from the Morning Glory family of plants? Darryl. |
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