I plan to start a new day with a new attitude. Hell I even deleted all
the old post. I will continue to do what I can for these groups
because I feel reactive infections explain the root cause of
Alzheimers, MS, Fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, severe arthritis, etc.
I will say however that I cross posted not expecting the onslaught off
slams. I should not have replied to such and acted childishly in doing
so. For that I apologies. Even though flames are sometimes fun :).
Anyway, new day. I will not reply to the crosspost and if you want to
reply to this in any other way except in rational mature discourse
please do not. In fact just filter me out.
> I plan to start a new day with a new attitude. Hell I even deleted all
> the old post. I will continue to do what I can for these groups
> because I feel reactive infections explain the root cause of
> Alzheimers, MS, Fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, severe arthritis, etc.
Since you at least dropped the crossposting, I'll give you a response.
Infections can cause some incidents of arthritis.
Infections can cause some incidents of dementia.
But not all. The credibility of the doctor whose article you posted was
harmed in my view by his claim that infection-cause reactive arthritis was
the most common cause of arthritis; some quick Google searching turned up
research from a number of reputable sources for numbers showing that
osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis are far more common (I haven't gone
back and looked today, and didn't make note of the exact figure, but as best
I can recall the incidences were something like 5-8% of the population
develop osteoarthritis, 3-5% rheumatoid arthritis, and only about 0.07% get
reactive arthritis). Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis are not caused
by infection (in some few cases, an infection may act as a 'trigger' for RA,
but that's not the same as causing it).
The online searching I did turned up a distinct characteristic of reactive
arthritis: it strikes younger people on average than the types of arthritis
not caused by infectious agents. Known infection-related dementia (most
commonly found in people with AIDS and otherwise suppressed immune function)
has a similar distinction: it affects younger people.
Now, since there's not an identifiable, testable infectious agent you're
offering as the cause of this alleged infectious Alzheimers, that is, no
case of a culture sample taken from AD patients that invariably turns up
positive , and no case study of AD patients (as opposed to people with
distinctly other dementias) responding to antibiotic treatment (though
elderly AD patients are, I'd venture, probably given antibiotics more
frequently than their non-AD counterparts, as they're often being closely
monitored for their health by others, perhaps given antibiotics when some
other infection is just suspected or possible, since they're often unable to
report their symptoms clearly).
All you can offer is guesswork -
Whereas: infections cause some diseases, including some dementia;
Therefore: infection causes Alzheimers dementia.
The tie-in to reactive arthritis really weakens the argument: Alzheimers
lacks the distinctive characteristic of reactive arthritis - affecting
relatively younger patients. Alzheimers, in its demographic distribution,
is more similar to osteo- and rheumatoid arthritis, which, as we've already
noted, are not cause by infection. AD is a disease overwhelmingly of the
elderly; infectious reactive arthritis is, distinctly from other types of
arthritis, a disease striking younger patients.
So, I really didn't see anything but speculation, and speculation that
doesn't follow logically from the comparisons offered. I looked at your
presentation skeptically but openly, did some research on my own and as a
result found your hypothesis unpersuasive.
Finally, your demand that people who don't agree with the medical theory
you're proposing just ignore you and not call you on it is not a reasonable
one. First of all, your posts did have all the hallmarks of the common
crackpot quackery we see so often - cross-posted to every remotely
health-related newsgroup under the sun; espousing a virtual panacea (one
cure for a myriad of diseases); extrapolations of one medical theory tying
everything together in ways that were tenuous at best; and the opening line
about 'soon the truth will come out' that hints at a moribund medical
Establishment overlooking the brilliant and courageous work of one lone
research genius - which makes for a really good 1930s medical drama, but
isn't the way things really are. And when a post about some novel medical
'theory' quacks like a duck, as the saying goes, it really is not
responsible for people who recognize the quacking to not say so. Not when a
group like this is filled with newcomers often desperate for hope for a
tragic disease, people who may be persuaded by claims of cures that just
don't hold water and as a result follow treatments that at best waste time
better spent on medically sound treatment and at worst may cause more harm.
All I've got to say on the subject.
--
Robert
Dali - 27 Feb 2004 01:24 GMT
>> I plan to start a new day with a new attitude. Hell I even deleted all
>> the old post. I will continue to do what I can for these groups
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>research from a number of reputable sources for numbers showing that
>osteoarthritis
I suggest that reactive arthritis and rheumatoid are so similar in the
way the disease works I think they are confused. No rheumatologist in
houston are treating the "autoimmune disease" with antibiotics despite
the fact that most bacteria which cause reactive arthritis cannot be
tested for. How can we get good numbers such as what you provide when
this is the case? Please state your source for these figures because
the are suspect.
>and rheumatoid arthritis are far more common (I haven't gone
>back and looked today, and didn't make note of the exact figure, but as best
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>other infection is just suspected or possible, since they're often unable to
>report their symptoms clearly).
Here is a good trial for what it's worth
Dr. Mark Loeb, associate professor at McMaster University in Hamilton,
Ontario, presented a study in San Diego at the meeting of the
Infectious Diseases Society of America (10/9/03) to show that
antibiotics may slow brain damage caused by Alzheimer's disease.
Patients on two antibiotics, doxycycline and rifampin, for three
months had significantly less loss of mental function than those given
placebos.
Alzheimer's disease causes progressive loss of mental function and
affects more than 4.5 million Americans. Drugs approved by the FDA to
treat Alzheimer's disease are barely more effective than placebos.
Several studies associate Alzheimer's disease with infections caused
by the bacteria chlamydia and mycoplasma, but the vast majority of
neurologists do not feel that infection causes Alzheimer's disease.
The author of this study feels that antibiotics may prevent plaques
from forming in nerves. The trial found that those in the placebo
group lost significantly more intellect than those on antibiotics.
There is no specific test for Alzheimer''s disease, so doctors make
the diagnosis by eliminating other causes of brain damage. It is
reasonable to prescribe antibiotics to Alzheimer's disease patients
because today no effective medical treatment exists. The four
FDA-approved Alzheimer's drugs -- Cognex, Aricept, Exelon and Reminyl
-- slow the rate of brain damage only a little bit and do not stop
progression of brain damage.
I will state this also. S pyogenes which i believe is horribly
underdiagnosed, produces very nasty and harmfull toxins. Any one with
this arthritis would eventually suffer from dementia and the severe
problems would show when the patient is at a older age.
Speaking of guess work how does rheumatoid arthritis work. Whats the
prevailing theory? Keep in mind the body works fine on it's own. It
has had millions of years to get things right. Can anyone offer more
then guesswork I feel try something and see if it works. If
antibiotics work better than the other drugs why not use them. I hope
you agree that least further testing needs to be done.
>All you can offer is guesswork -
>Whereas: infections cause some diseases, including some dementia;
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>health-related newsgroup under the sun; espousing a virtual panacea (one
>cure for a myriad of diseases);
I cross posted because the article with the sources was quite large.
It was more efficient to do so. With all the slams I received I
probably should have done it some other way. I said to those who do
not have any intelligent arguemants to make just filter me out. I was
tired of the trolls.
> extrapolations of one medical theory tying
>everything together in ways that were tenuous at best; and the opening line
>about 'soon the truth will come out' that hints at a moribund medical
There are all these different fields Alzheimers, MS, rheumatologist
and they are coming around to the fact that inflamation is the cause
of these disease (see the February 25 TIME magazine) It's called "The
Secret Killer" reactive infections are a pretty good guess as to the
cause of this inflamation. By the way a Nobel prize winning Dr. first
suggested the idea of reactive infections. I think we are in the
process of seeing this as fact. You know how long the process takes
however. I will look up his name when I get the chance
>Establishment overlooking the brilliant and courageous work of one lone
>research genius - which makes for a really good 1930s medical drama, but
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>All I've got to say on the subje
Best regards and thanks for the intelligent reply.
Adelle D. Stavis, Esq. - 27 Feb 2004 01:27 GMT
Robert,
One addition to your arthritis information.
Doctors do treat RA with antibiotics. That is the protocol they are using on
me. They are not sure whether the patients are responding only to the
anti-inflammatory properties of the antibiotic, or to the anti-microbial
properties. My uncle, a Pediatric Rheumatologist, says so far, it looks like
it's the former.
Some people believe that RA can, in some instances, be caused by mycoplasma
and that is why A)antibiotics are effective for some RA patients; and B)
some RA patients get the same kind of flare of symptoms when antibiotics
are started that syphilis and Lyme disease patients get. The studies on this
aren't particularly strong. But who knows?
Initially, they thought I had Lyme. When I started antibiotics, my joints
flared up so badly I could hardly move. but after about two months I was
feeling great. Then all my blood tests were negative for Lyme DNA. A new
Rheumatologist said the response to the antibiotics were a hint towards RA
and that is the new working diagnosis.

Signature
Adelle D. Stavis, Esq.
Remove the c in my name for me to see your reply
> > I plan to start a new day with a new attitude. Hell I even deleted all
> > the old post. I will continue to do what I can for these groups
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
> --
> Robert
Dali - 27 Feb 2004 03:29 GMT
If it's antiinflamatory then the antiobiotics would be needed the rest
of your life. It has to be the latter. I went through the flare up the
same as you. night sweats, etc. Sounds like you have been cured by
antibiotics. great to hear that RA's are using this new protocal.
>Robert,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Rheumatologist said the response to the antibiotics were a hint towards RA
>and that is the new working diagnosis.