Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / February 2004
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Maurice & Brenda Terry - 14 Feb 2004 16:37 GMT Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed with AD about 3 years ago. Yall I have no patience anymore. I have no help with him. I feel terrible but asking the same questions over and over is really doing a number on me. I guess I just need to vent. My parents are elderly and` live in the metroplex. I talk to them but they dont understand. They dont see him but every six months or so. I have called our local AD office but they werent helpful. I suppose there arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry
Songbird - 14 Feb 2004 19:43 GMT Welcome aboard, Brenda. I'm glad you found us. It's not like any of us *wants* to be here -- but it's easier when we're hanging on to the ends of our respective ropes together!
Songbird
Evelyn Ruut - 14 Feb 2004 20:35 GMT > Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Hi Brenda,
Welcome to the newsgroup nobody really wanted to join, but thank goodness it is here for us!
I know what you mean about the same questions over and over again. We went through about two years of that before my mother in law finally began to quiet down. Sadly the quieting down was the result of her illness getting worse.
 Signature Evelyn
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Lee - 14 Feb 2004 22:19 GMT must be awfully hard to do it all by yourself... there are days when My MIL drives me nuts.... though the repetitive question period seems to be winding down now.... but I always know that my partner will be coming home eventually...
very different from when I was raising my kids on my own .... then my only relief was bedtime....
no support group through your local AD office? seems like it would be a good thing for you to get involved in....says she who's never been to one LOL
> Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry TakeItEasy45@webtv.net - 14 Feb 2004 22:57 GMT Hi Brenda,
If I couldn't vent here once in awhile I'd go nuts. So feel free to get it out of your system. Better to get it out than to bottle it up and suddenly explode one day at your husband over something little.
I've always had a very high patience level but eight years of caring for Mom has done a job on me. I'm still pretty good but there were times I had to take meds just to keep my nerves under control. My biggest problem with my mother is that she's never been a caring person and wants and demands constant attention. She resents anyone else having any of my attention and has gotten nastier and nastier about it over the years. My daughter was just 13 when she had to come live with us. I had been widowed for ten years and when Mom suggested my stop working and we all live off her savings in exchange for my caring for her it seemed like a great idea since I really wanted to be home for my daughter more. What's the old saying....'if I had known then, what I know now', lol. At that time the doctor's gave her a life expectency of only 2 to 3 years because she refused the shunt surgery necessary for hydracephalus. Surprise, surprise, here it is three times that.
Like you, the support systems down here aren't available. Well, some are but are financially restrictive for us. There's no family nearby except for my two children. Other sibs/grandkids just don't visit because of mom's attitude in the past. The days/years when she repeated the same stuff over and over took all I had not to lose it. Now she doesn't talk most of the time and grunts a lot. The sundowning has become worse and worse with her cussing me out or throwing things every couple of days.
So, if you are having problems now coping I'd suggest checking into alternative care because it ain't gonna get any better. Good luck to ya'll.
Dennis P. Harris - 15 Feb 2004 06:52 GMT > The sundowning has > become worse and worse with her cussing me out or throwing things every > couple of days. talk to her doc about meds to help with aggressive behavior...
turkey tracker - 15 Feb 2004 01:20 GMT Brenda, Coincidentally my last name is Terry also.And my sister-in-law is Brenda Terry.Small world.Barb
pitirish - 15 Feb 2004 06:15 GMT Hi Brenda,
I'm dealing with the same issue with my wife that you have right now, namely the constant repetition of the same questions. Regardless of how many times you repeat the answer, your husband will not remember. Unfortunately, it's this, and other problems that are worse than this, that we'll have to deal with for years to come. Please continue to post here and rely on the advise these folks post. They have forewarned me of many aspects of my wife's behaviors for which I would otherwise have been caught by surprise.
One big thing that helped me was that I consulted a psychiatrist on my behalf, to seek guidance about the resentment that I harbored in my "Oh, woe is me" file. I became depressed and angry about unwillingly having become "stuck" in what had been planned as a comfortable retirement, with an unbidden nursing job. You may currently see your role as spouse and partner to your husband, but your relationship may devolve into the realization that you are the caregiver to someone who is incapable of returning not only "love" but any semblance of appreciation whatsoever.
It's important that you find a physician to whom you can communicate your problems. Family practitioners and psychiatrists can point to therapeutic forums and prescribe formulas that will help you to get through the day. Physicians can also prescribe drugs such as Aricept and Namenda so that your husband's condition worsens less quickly.
As for help from relatives, it seems to be very hit and miss for caregivers in this group. Friends and relatives want to "visit" and talk with your husband as has been their practice since they've known him. Those who do not have frequent discussions with AD patients don't have any idea of the length of time it takes for an AD patient to develop and express an entire coherent sentence. Moreover, folks who are unfamiliar with AD patient care don't understand that whatever is said is to an AD patient is not going to be assimilated. Caregivers are special people in that they will patiently await responses, all the while knowing that whatever information they have attempted to impart isn't likely to be received correctly, nor acted upon effectively. It takes patience, caring and a break every once in awhile, to be an caregiver.
I look forward to your future posts, Brenda. We live in Greensboro, North Carolina and the AD support services in our area are excellent. I can't suggest specific resolutions, but I offer my empathy and heartfelt understanding, as do we all.
go'l.
> Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry JM Van_Horn - 15 Feb 2004 08:21 GMT I have nothing but respect and amazement for you folks who are taking care of your Loved Ones at home. My Mom was only in my home for 3 weeks when I had to bring her from another state. It was such hell. All night she was up and down every 10 minutes with the consequent confusion and all day it was the same questions over and over again. I couldn't send an email to my boss asking for more time off without her interrupting me 8 times with the same question. Thank God WebVan was still delivering food. I got help in at night the last week because I couldn't think without sleep, but I couldn't sleep well because I could still hear the commotion. I managed to type up some questions for the doctor - one was "What happens to Mom if I collapse?" He put her in the hospital that day.
I remember sitting on the sofa with my head on the sofa arm, trying to grab a wink and Mom asking the same thing over and over. I'd tell her I needed to sleep and that would be good for one flat minute. I thought I would go insane.
After the hospital, I got Mom into a Dementia Unit. Then she got better - enough to go into regular assisted living. She had a good 3 years in assisted living before having to go back into the Dementia Unit. Then she fell and broke both hips and now she's in a Nursing Home where she is adjusting well. She's had a bad year, poor thing.
I like the Nursing Facility better than the Dementia Unit in a lot of ways. They can do things for Mom that the Dementia Unit (which was still assisted living) could not do, such as adjust medications more quickly, take care of skin rashes, put in a catheter, etc. They can keep a better eye on Mom and she's a lot calmer at night.
joan
> Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Daphne - 16 Feb 2004 00:14 GMT Joan
I've only been with my mother for two weeks and it feels like eternity. My father is here and I don't know if that's a pro or a con. He won't make her get the medical attention she needs and refuses to get. She often is in great pain but refuses to see a doctor. I'd do as several people in this newsgroup suggested: take her to the ER and leave her!
My father has learned to tune out the constant questions, and the constant yelling for her dog. I'm getting pretty darn good at it too.
So glad your mother got the help she needs.
Daphne
> I have nothing but respect and amazement for you folks who > are taking care of your Loved Ones at home. My Mom [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Evelyn Ruut - 16 Feb 2004 12:10 GMT > My father has learned to tune out the constant questions, and the > constant yelling for her dog. I'm getting pretty darn good at it too.
> Daphne Hi Daphne,
My mother in law had a little Chihuahua when she first came to live here and she was constantly yelling for it too.
She would force feed it with a spoon!
She wouldn't let it be free --- ever. She would constantly call it and hold it ALL the time and not let it go.
The dog would finally be able to get out of her clutches at night, and would start yapping at 3 in the morning.
She wouldn't take it out to pee, or let us take it out, but would make it go on the floor and then clean it up with tissues. The dog peeing and pooping all over the place was starting to make our own animals get confused about not going in the house.
The dog had no teeth and was 17 years old, and was totally un-housebroken at that point.
We finally realized that this dog was NOT having a good life, and that my mother in law was actually being very unkind to the poor thing with force feeding it etc.
She wouldn't eat her own food but would jam it down the dogs throat instead.
She had wanted to put the dog to sleep a couple of years prior because it was too old, but since she fell on the ice that day, she never did it.
We finally put the dog to sleep because we couldn't take care of both her and the dog.
I believe that a person whose mind is gone is not really a fit dog owner. They are not capable of knowing when the animal has to go out, or to be fed, in any realistic way. That poor dog my mother in law owned was finally free of her only when we put it to sleep.
If your mother is "constantly yelling" for her dog, you ought to consider letting the dog be outside a lot of the time, or giving it to a relative or something else. A demented person can be very inappropriate in owning a dog, unless someone else is the actual caregiver for the dog.
In short, I feel sorry for her dog.
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Daphne - 17 Feb 2004 03:12 GMT Evelyn,
The weather was beutiful today and my father and I were outside with the dog. My mother yelled and yelled and yelled for her dog for what seemed liked hours. I'm am truly puzzled as to why she never goes hoarse. She is constantly ranting.
When you put your MIL's dog to sleep didn't she constantly look for her? I think I would lose my mind listening to my mother.
And, once again (I know you're tired of hearing this), my father is a problem. He adores the dog too. I think he feels he's saving Molly from my mother sometimes and that makes him feel like he can do SOMETHING. He knows he can't help my mother, so he's struggling to make amends.
Daphne
> > My father has learned to tune out the constant questions, and the > > constant yelling for her dog. I'm getting pretty darn good at it too. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > In short, I feel sorry for her dog. Evelyn Ruut - 17 Feb 2004 12:44 GMT > Evelyn, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Daphne Daphne,
My mother in law never stopped asking for her dog. She still asks once in a while. But at least the poor animal is no longer being treated like that.
You are already being tortured now with her yelling constantly.... the presence or absence of the dog will have no actual effect on her yelling for it.
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Ronny 1 - 15 Feb 2004 19:50 GMT Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Sat, Feb 14, 2004, 10:37am From: jukeboxwizard@webtv.net (Maurice & Brenda Terry) Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed with AD about 3 years ago. Yall I have no patience anymore. I have no help with him. I feel terrible but asking the same questions over and over is really doing a number on me. I guess I just need to vent. My parents are elderly and` live in the metroplex. I talk to them but they dont understand. They dont see him but every six months or so. I have called our local AD office but they werent helpful. I suppose there arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry
Ronny: Hey Brenda. :-) Sorry to hear you're having such a rough time of it. :-(
My nearly 84yo Mom repeats a lot of stuff too. Sometimes I just find myself saying uh huh if I don't think that will cause problems.
I hope you can get outside some as spring comes along? That helps me. I like to do just a little raised bed gardening or just get outside and walk around a bit if the weather is prettier like it is today. But Mom scared me some today. I came back in the back door,locked it and couldn't find her anywhere in the house. Saw the front door was unlocked and went out to look for her. Finally found her trying to get in the back door. :-) I should of told her I was going out a while as she remembers that most of the time. She wasn't real happy that she was locked out! LoL
I am sorry to hear you local AD office didn't come up with much of any help for you. :-( I've got to check more;but the only thing I know of so far in my area is a once a week dinner at one of the Methodist churches. For about $5 they provide a meal and a few hours care for AD people-so that there caretakers can have a little time off to do needed things or just have a little rest. (BTW,I'm up here in the Hopkins County/Sulphur Springs area.)
This is a good ng. :-) I haven't been around much lately though. I post in several ngs and have been studying a lot online about somethings that interest me. Sometimes Mom gets jealous of me being online! LoL Will be glad when it warms up a bit more and I can help her and watch her outside more. She really does like to sit outside some when it's warm and she can watch things and talk more.
Love,
Ronny http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/Quail
http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/RaisingRabbits
http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/PoultryIncubator
Dennis P. Harris - 15 Feb 2004 23:53 GMT > But Mom > scared me some today. I came back in the back door,locked it and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > remembers that most of the time. She wasn't real happy that she was > locked out! LoL If she's this bad, it's probably best to NOT leave her anywhere alone.
Ronny 1 - 19 Feb 2004 09:56 GMT Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Sun, Feb 15, 2004, 2:53pm (CST-3) From: dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris) On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:50:00 -0600 (CST) in alt.support.alzheimers, crafti1@webtv.net (Ronny 1) wrote: But Mom scared me some today. I came back in the back door,locked it and couldn't find her anywhere in the house. Saw the front door was unlocked and went out to look for her. Finally found her trying to get in the back door. :-) I should of told her I was going out a while as she remembers that most of the time. She wasn't real happy that she was locked out! LoL
If she's this bad, it's probably best to NOT leave her anywhere alone. Dennis
Well,she doen't always do this and I don't remember now;but if she was awake when I went out,then I should of told her I was going. That does help even when she forgets what I told her. It seems to keep here calmer-like on some level she does remember and yet on another level she doesn't. Hard to explain in words.
Today I went out when she was sleeping. Just went out to the mailbox and then it was so pretty I decided to walk the 100 yards or so down to a neighbor's house. That lady is in a nursing home now;but I wanted to see if any of her daffodils were blooming yet. :-) So it was nice and most of the time I could see both our front and back doors.
The good part,so far,is that Mom has only walked off from our place onetime and that was last summer when she went to the neighbor's when I was grocery shopping. Mostly she stays in the house;but sometimes she likes to walk around the yard in pretty weather. That doesn't bother me nearly so much now that her leg is healed up and she is a lot less likely to fall. :-)
Love,
Ronny http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/Quail
http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/RaisingRabbits
http://community.webtv.net/crafti1/PoultryIncubator
Tumbleweed - 19 Feb 2004 18:16 GMT Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Sun, Feb 15, 2004, 2:53pm (CST-3) From: dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris) But Mom scared me some today. I came back in the back door,locked it and couldn't find her anywhere in the house. Saw the front door was unlocked and went out to look for her. Finally found her trying to get in the back door. :-) I should of told her I was going out a while as she remembers that most of the time. She wasn't real happy that she was locked out! LoL
If she's this bad, it's probably best to NOT leave her anywhere alone. Dennis
Well,she doen't always do this and I don't remember now;but if she was awake when I went out,then I should of told her I was going. That does help even when she forgets what I told her. It seems to keep here calmer-like on some level she does remember and yet on another level she doesn't. Hard to explain in words.
Today I went out when she was sleeping. Just went out to the mailbox and then it was so pretty I decided to walk the 100 yards or so down to a neighbor's house. That lady is in a nursing home now;but I wanted to see if any of her daffodils were blooming yet. :-) So it was nice and most of the time I could see both our front and back doors.
The good part,so far,is that Mom has only walked off from our place onetime and that was last summer when she went to the neighbor's when I was grocery shopping. Mostly she stays in the house;but sometimes she likes to walk around the yard in pretty weather. That doesn't bother me nearly so much now that her leg is healed up and she is a lot less likely to fall. :-)
But much more likely to wander off, I would imagine?
Love,
Ronny
I'm sure I read somewhere that a significant number of Az people die or are injured when they wander off somewhere and get into trouble.
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Char - 15 Feb 2004 21:38 GMT > Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Hi Brenda,
Welcome to the group. You will find a lot of support & good advice here.
Always,
Char
Daphne - 16 Feb 2004 00:27 GMT Brenda
I also live in Texas - Aledo, on the other side of Ft. Worth. Are you looking for a support group in Tyler? I found this link that might help, it lists a couple support groups: http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/tyleralz/support.html
My father also found a phone support group through the Parker County Alz. Association. Maybe they have something like that near you?
Daphne
> Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Robert E. Lewis - 16 Feb 2004 23:05 GMT > Brenda > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Daphne I'm in small-town Texas too - about 75 miles south of Houston. Not a lot of AD resources here, either - I phoned the AD support center in Houston and got a referral to the more-or-less local AD caregivers' support group (about 35-40 miles away, but worth the trip). They weren't listed in local phone and community directories, etc. - I never would've found them without that call.
-- Robert
Greg - 21 Feb 2004 15:00 GMT One thing I've tried, after sadly getting tired of the repeated questions was to make POSTERS, and pamphlets, scatter them around the house. That way when my mother would normally re-ask
"What town is this?"
The answer would be all around her. It takes some explaining initially, getting them to try and remember TWO things ..
1- remember to READ the Poster whenever confusion, dementia or anxiety sets in and
2- remember that what they may see or hear may not be real.
In fact, I put fact #2 on the posters themselves. I'm a firm believer now that with INTENSE and I mean INTENSIVELY INTENSE memory training and excercises that alzheimers patients can indeed "learn" a fact and retain it. My mother's fact to remember is to simply
READ
one of the posters whenever confusion sets in . I know that teaching them just ONE fact may seem like an impossibilty but it worked for me. It's overkill, kind of like a college student repeating over and over for weeks before the big test
"the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska". "the capital of Omaha is Nebraska".
or is it
"the capital of Nebraska is Omaha" ?
one of those two I hope. That's why I don't teach geography. Thank goodness.
> Hi, everyone. My name is Brenda and I live on Lake Palestine outside > of Tyler, TX. I have been lurking for a while. My husband was diagnosed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Evelyn Ruut - 21 Feb 2004 15:07 GMT > One thing I've tried, after sadly getting tired of the repeated questions > was to make POSTERS, and pamphlets, scatter them around the house. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > That's why I don't teach geography. > Thank goodness. Dear Greg,
I am sorry to tell you this, but the fix will most likely be temporary.
We tried that too, and it only worked for a little while.
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Tumbleweed - 21 Feb 2004 18:05 GMT > > One thing I've tried, after sadly getting tired of the repeated questions > > was to make POSTERS, and pamphlets, scatter them around the house. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > We tried that too, and it only worked for a little while. same with my dad, worked for a while, but thats better than nothing. I would give him bits of paper with key facts on(such as where we were going or whatever he was asking q's about that day). That would defintely help him stop asking teh same q over and over...fora while!
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Dennis P. Harris - 21 Feb 2004 20:17 GMT > I'm a firm believer now that with INTENSE and I mean INTENSIVELY INTENSE > memory training and excercises that > alzheimers patients can indeed "learn" a fact and retain it. you're pissing into the wind, fella. it's only going to last for a very little while, and the her short term memory won't work at all. in the meantime, you're causing her a lot of stress by trying to get her to do the impossible.
the best way to deal with this kind of behavior is to redirect the demented person's attention.
Lee - 21 Feb 2004 23:30 GMT wouldn't work here... my MIL really can't read any more, although if asked, she will claim she does.
On the other hand, after almost 2 years, she recently learned my name, or so I hear. When her OT showed up last week to speak with one of our home care ladies, my MIL told her that I was away that day ...and she used my name! The OT swears that she said it first... my MIL, I mean... not the OT.
I'm usually 'she' or 'her' ...'the one that lives here', or 'my husband's girlfriend' LOL or whatever...
> One thing I've tried, after sadly getting tired of the repeated questions > was to make POSTERS, and pamphlets, scatter them around the house. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Greg - 22 Feb 2004 08:11 GMT Dang (that's texas for DARN) .. you folks are good. I guess I'm in the early stages of dealing with the problem. Raw recruit. Perhaps all this works in the early stages, which it does. I can only imagine then what's ahead of me. Your MIL .. Her not knowing your name .. that's kind of scary. Has to be a cure for this, I'm sure everyone's already researched then researched again. Now I feel like I'm only of the outskirts of Baghdad, getting ready to make the drive in.
> wouldn't work here... my MIL really can't read any more, although if asked, > she will claim she does. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > > arent many resources available for me here in Tyler. Coming here gives > > > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Lee - 22 Feb 2004 21:40 GMT she was already a good year or more into the disorder, if not longer, (hard to tell as there was so much denial) before I even met my partner... so was pretty much beyond learning new things by that point.... I'm shocked that she was able to use it even just the once
> Dang (that's texas for DARN) .. you folks are good. I guess I'm in the > early stages of dealing with the problem. [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > gives > > > > me some support and I just wanted to thank yall, Brenda Terry Mary Gordon - 22 Feb 2004 17:17 GMT Hey Greg, having been through this, your solution is logical but the impact is very short lived.
A lot of people here tried leaving written information for loved ones with AD, only to be mystified as to why it fails so miserably to achieve the required effect (i.e. leaving written instructions for working the TV or a note to tell them their lunch was in the fridge). It is really important to realize that reading is a very complex skill and requires abstract thinking - they don't just have to be able to decode the symbols into sounds, but they have to be able to process the words into comprehensible meaning, and understand the abstract concepts of a thing having a proper name, and that the words have meanings that may relate to THEM and require action. That is a lot of logical analysis for an injured brain.
Many people with AD will retain the ability to read long after they can no longer comprehend the meaning of the text. If your loved ones has testing for the extent of their deficits, the psychometrist can demonstrate this to you. Give the person a chunk of text to read out loud, and they do fine. Tell them to read it and then do what it says (i.e. "pick up the red book and put it on the dresser and then sit down") and they will tank completely.
They can also lose concepts around sequences and symbols, so may be able to read the names and numbers on a calendar, for example, and have absolutely NO clue what it means, that Monday comes before Tuesday, that February 25 is after February 24, that the matrix format means that a week today is the square below the current date etc.
Like you, we certainly gave written prompts the college try, but it didn't work well at all, or for very long - and we look back at our attempts to write out basic instructions for working the VCR etc. and shake our heads. We just didn't get that this wasn't about memory problems, but the ability to think and reason.
Mary G.
Greg - 23 Feb 2004 11:39 GMT Thx. She's not at that stage yet but now I know what to expect.
> Hey Greg, having been through this, your solution is logical but the > impact is very short lived. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Mary G.
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