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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / January 2004

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Advice please??? Getting Vas. D. Person to Accept Help

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Minoafair - 23 Jan 2004 12:01 GMT
Hi...my name is Mary, I am a caregiving daughter to a loving and feisty
(sometimes too feisty) 81 year old woman just diagnosed with early
(mild-to-moderate) vascular dementia, with the possibility of mixed dementia
(vascular plus Alz.).  She had a mild cognitive disorder and depression for a
few years before that.  We are very close though we don't always get along
perfectly.

She lives with me. I am single, I recently quit my job in part to figure out
what care she needs now. She is still high functioning but while one of her
doctors thinks she is still OK staying alone (for instance, during my work day)
another is concerned that maybe it's time she not be left alone.  He thinks she
is "probably" ok but "probably" makes me nervous.

She can dress herself, make phone calls, and get herself snacks and she knows
not to cook.  She needs prompting to change her Depends and use her medicated
wipes afterwards, and she is resistant to bathing or letting me help her with
that (if it becomes a problem I resort to tricks and subterfuge.) I have a few
problems like a new heating regulation system that, if you push the "heat on"
arrow too hard moves it to 99 degrees so if I leave her alone I have to find a
way that she can't turn up the heat.  (She is always cold. She has been for 20
years.)  She usually remembers that we live in L.A. and that Bush is president.
She doesn't get lost when she walks around the halls of our apartment building
and she never leaves the building because she is afraid her key won't work and
she'll be trapped outside.  She doesn't "wander".

But I am concerned that she will be unable to handle an emergency situation
like a fire or health crisis.  We just had a false fire alarm the other day and
while she did not become disoriented, I urged her to get her clothes on (we
weren't up yet) and get out the door, and I ushered her down the stairs.  Would
she have had the presence of mind to get herself out of there while dealing
with the fire alarm racket?  In the urgency of getting downstairs would she
have tripped and fallen? Our building manager is not cooperative or supportive,
so I can't ask her to help.

So anyway, as you can see her situation is kind of borderline.  I am 39 and
need to work for a living, unless she supports me out of her savings, but even
then she can't be with me 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  My brother helps a
couple of times a week but he has a demanding job.  

I'd like to have outside help come in once in awhile to stay with her while I
go shopping, go to a doctor's appointment, go on a job interview or just unwind
from the stress but she is very resistant to the idea and I'm afraid she'll
throw the caregiver out. (Feisty, like I said.) I'm also trying to get her into
a day care program (very expensive and while she's not rolling in dough she
also has too much money to be Medi-Cal eligible), but the last time I tried
about a year ago, when she was at a somewhat higher level than now, she hated
it and didn't want to go back because she felt like the activities were more
appropriate for six year olds than for someone like her.  Maybe she'll fit in
better now that she's declined a little but what if she still hates it and
refuses to go?

She's still competent to sign legal papers herself and make decisions so I
can't force her to go into assisted living or go into daycare, but since I
can't be with her 24/7 and I don't want to neglect her, I don't know what to do
if she refuses help. Does anyone have any tips on how to get an early-stage
dementia person to accept help from outsiders or put up with daycare even if
she feels it's "beneath" her or rails about not wanting a "babysitter"?

Thanks much for any suggestions.  I'm also going to attend a support group to
get suggestions.  Please wish me luck.
Lee - 23 Jan 2004 17:10 GMT
my MIL was very resistant to having anyone in while we're out at work as
well... we finally just went ahead and arranged it ... the agency is very
used to dealing with that resistance - told them right from the first that
Ma didn't want them... so far it's gone fairly well... she tells them every
time they're here that she doesn't need them and doesn't want them, etc...
and complains a bit after they leave (they all talk too damn much! talk talk
talk!) ... but at least I know that while they're here, she's getting her
pills and food, and she's not ~fixing~ appliances or whatever ...or
microwaving tins of soup...or feeding the roast to the dogs ... or whatever
other new mischeif she's likely to get up to.

Maybe that an arrangement similar to what we have (for now) would work...
not to have someone the entire time you're at work... but to at least make
sure that someone will be in in the middle of the time to give her a meal,
handle the Depends stuff, etc, and check on her.  Part of the benefit, for
us, is that we know that if she goes into (another) sudden decline and needs
more help, or if I end up in hospital without time for advance planning, or
whatever else happens.... we've already got the services in place.... just a
matter or increasing or changing the hours, rather than going through
assessments, finding a providers, getting things set up, etc. etc. Days,
instead of weeks.

Think I'd be offering her a choice... I have to work... I don't feel
comfortable leaving you alone for so long - (and brother agrees) - so here
are the options... you can have someone come in for a couple of hours a day
just to make sure you're ok, or you can go to a day program. Neither of the
above is just not a choice.

Part of gaining my MIL resignation to the whole thing was making it clear
that the point of having 'the ladies' come in is to make it easier to keep
her OUT of a nursing home ... she regularly needs reassurance that needing
help doesn't mean that she's going to a home ... she's a lot easier to
manage when she's putting less of her energy into trying to not need/ask for
help because she's afraid we'll put her away. Gets into less trouble,
especially with her medications, now that she lets me "help".

Might try having them do the baths and so on too... sometimes people are
less resistant to having someone other than family help with that stuff...
and most home care aides are trained to do it - and experienced in
overcoming resistance. I'm sure they've likely all run into feisty too LOL

We have the exact same issues with the heat here, too, btw... she's ALWAYS
cold... so usually come home to sweltering heat... every thermostat in the
house pushed way to the top. We talked about having the thermostats that she
knows about disabled, and hiding controls elsewhere... but since she really
IS cold, we only talk about it ... haven't done it. Think it's related to
her heart problems...I know that when I'm having bad days with mine, I'm
constantly cold too.

> Hi...my name is Mary, I am a caregiving daughter to a loving and feisty
> (sometimes too feisty) 81 year old woman just diagnosed with early
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> Thanks much for any suggestions.  I'm also going to attend a support group to
> get suggestions.  Please wish me luck.
Tumbleweed - 23 Jan 2004 18:34 GMT
> Hi...my name is Mary, I am a caregiving daughter to a loving and feisty
> (sometimes too feisty) 81 year old woman just diagnosed with early
> (mild-to-moderate) vascular dementia, with the possibility of mixed dementia
> (vascular plus Alz.).  She had a mild cognitive disorder and depression for a
> few years before that.  We are very close though we don't always get along
> perfectly.

<snip>

> I'd like to have outside help come in once in awhile to stay with her while I
> go shopping, go to a doctor's appointment, go on a job interview or just unwind
> from the stress but she is very resistant to the idea and I'm afraid she'll
> throw the caregiver out.

Mary, you need to reset expectations, hers but most importantly yours.
Arrange the person, have them come, then  leave. No discussion or
negotiation. You wouldnt argue with a 4 year old whether or not they need
someone to look after them while you are out, this is the same situation.

You can always lie (sometimes called loving deception here) if it will help
things go smoother, for example you can say they are a friend who will be
here while you are out or whatever works. I'd imagine she would be less
likely to throw a friend out. If her memory is bad enough she cant remember
from one day to the next you can use the same excuse each time, i.e maybe
her(the caregiver) apartment is being decorated so she needs to stay at your
place for the day, or whatever.

>(Feisty, like I said.) I'm also trying to get her into
> a day care program (very expensive and while she's not rolling in dough she
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> better now that she's declined a little but what if she still hates it and
> refuses to go?

Then either you get a caregiver in, you put up with it, or you have her put
in a home.

Those are the choices, tough as they are, there are no magic bullets. My
mother went through hell trying to get my dad to accept daycare. Sometimes
he went, sometimes he didnt, in the end he went into respite care and then a
home because he wouldnt accept it and she couldnt take 24*7 caring...IMHO no
one person could.  The respite home said they were amazed she had been able
to care for him, so bad was he. I've heard similar tales many times.

> She's still competent to sign legal papers herself and make decisions so I
> can't force her to go into assisted living or go into daycare, but since I
> can't be with her 24/7 and I don't want to neglect her, I don't know what to do
> if she refuses help. Does anyone have any tips on how to get an early-stage
> dementia person to accept help from outsiders or put up with daycare even if
> she feels it's "beneath" her or rails about not wanting a "babysitter"?

This is the most difficult stage from this POV. I would recommend creative
lying.
With my dad it got to the stage that we found excuses that worked and just
reused them as he couldnt remember from one day to the next (sometimes with
the daycare, sometimes with other things). It may take a lot of
experimentation to get to the right excuse. Eventually she will deteriorate
so much that they will work and can be reused, or if they dont, then the
situation is that you'll look after her 24*7 until you cant take it any more
and she has to go into care. Better to act before it gets to that stage :-)

If a 'babysitter' is a problem, then how about "she is my friend, her
apartment has lost its power today, she has nowhere to go today so she will
just sit here and read quietly".

> Thanks much for any suggestions.  I'm also going to attend a support group to
> get suggestions.  Please wish me luck.

Good luck and as someone else here once said, welcome to the club no one
wants to join.
And remember, it cant always be about her, you have to take your needs into
account as well.

FWIW my mother found the support group she attended very useful and made
some good friends there.

Good luck :-)

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Jennie - 24 Jan 2004 03:29 GMT
Mary,

When it was becoming obvious to us (but not to my mother) that she needed
someone living in and caring for her (she lives in her own home), we were
lucky to find a community agency called A Helping Hand.  They provide
companion care (they will do light housekeeping and meal prep, but don't do
personal care like bathing).  We decided to hire someone from their agency
to come in for several hours 3 times a week.  We hoped that by getting her
used to someone several times a week, that would help with the transition to
24/7 live-in care. (Well, it didn't help enough, but that's another story).

The agency actually employs a lot of college students, and does check them
out and train them.  When "Alecia" first came, my mother kept asking me why
she was there.  I stuck with the same story over and over:  Alecia was a
college student who needed a job and wanted to get experience working with
older people because she needed that for her studies and her future job
plans.  It turned out that Alecia had a car and enjoyed taking my mother out
to eat, shopping etc.  My mother really ended up liking her a lot.

One other note, as several other posters pointed out: we didn't ask my
mother whether she'd like someone to come in, etc., we just did it.
Fortunately, by that time, we had already filed the financial Power of
Attorney papers with the court, so we were able to use her savings to pay
for this service.  In addition, we were able to get 4 hours a week free
because we qualified for "respite" care.

I'm sure your community is not exactly like mine, but there are a lot of
resources out there for you to tap.  I spent a LOT of time this past summer
talking on the phone with differnt agencies and resource people, finding out
options and what was available.  I found resources that I didn't need right
then, but later ended up needing.

I can really sympathize with you quitting your job to figure things out.  I
had to cut my work hours way down to 3 hours a day.  I was eating up a lot
of work time making all those phone calls I just described above, because
working hours are when all these people are there in their offices!

Talk to people you meet about your mother and her situation.  You'd be
surprised at how many people your age or older have had experience caring
for an elderly relative.  My husband struck up a conversation with another
man while they were both waiting for their sons to finish their karate
class.  He ended up walking away with the name and phone # of a live-in care
nurse that the man highly recommended based on his own experience with his
parents, after going through a number of different nurses.

You never know where you'll find help!

-Jennie

> Hi...my name is Mary, I am a caregiving daughter to a loving and feisty
> (sometimes too feisty) 81 year old woman just diagnosed with early
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> Thanks much for any suggestions.  I'm also going to attend a support group to
> get suggestions.  Please wish me luck.
Minoafair - 27 Jan 2004 10:44 GMT
Thanks everyone for your advice.  I hope to make use of some of your
suggestions soon and get myself some extra respite and my mom some new faces to
look at during the day.  
 
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