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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / December 2003Its starting
Just what I have been fearing for months....my sister got notification mom is bouncing checks.....we have no idea exactly what she has done yet but my sis is having a fit cause she is on the account....the weird part was mom had just called me and said she needed a ride to the store....for the one millionth time I explained I do not have a vehicle til my husband gets home.....then for the millionth time she says where is your car....MOM I dont have a car....whered it go....MOM I traded it in for the truck and Tim drives it to work....Well where is YOUR car....MOM we have ONE vehicle.....sheeesh.....anyway when he gets home we will see...so what do you need? Beer and a bottle...(grrrrrr) I had made a promise to myself not to help contribute to their drinking I am like I will let you know when Tim gets home thinking I just wont call her back or maybe she will forget....then I am thinking what is she planning on using for money?...she must be planning on writing another check....so I call my sister and tell her whats going on She says NO she has no money in the bank...in fact its overdrawn.....so I call my mom back and plain flat tell her I cant take her to the store cause she has no money in the bank...shes like well I got my check here...which would be for Dec which means it wasnt deposited..... that also means highly unlikley any BILLS were paid....I am like MOM you have to put that in the bank....its overdrawn....Shes like..."dont tell me what to do with my money.....I have X amount of dollars in there....its none of your business....and I havent written any checks".....etc etc....She is totally delusional.........NONE of this is true so I am like trying to reason with her.....MOM if you didnt put your check in the bank there is no money in there!!!! GEEEEZ....and if there is no money how did you pay your bills... and she tells me I have no right to question her and hangs up....which was fine with me CASE closed for now.....My sister was supposed to go get the check and deposit. it but like I said we still have no idea yet what she has done....the one that we know for sure has been returned she denies writing and its for an even amount which indicates to us it cannot be for a bill...so basically what they are doing is just spending money on drinking and what little bit of of food they eat and NOTHING else...what I have feared most is coming true...they are gonna end up losing something and its gonna be bad....I know there is no advice any of you can give me...trying to keep my distance is just not working....letting them fall on their face is easier said than done....and telling them I am NOT doing this or that falls on deaf ears since they dont remember from one time to the next that I have told them that...There just are NO answers....I have tried everything yall suggested to me before and NOTHING Is working...but thanks for letting me vent....I just needed to unload.....Boydette <snip paragraph the size of a jumbo jet> >I just needed to unload.....Boydette Try unloading with paragraphs next time ?  SignatureTumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) > She is > totally delusional.........NONE of this is true so I am like trying to > reason with her..... boydette, JUST HANG UP. she's delusional, she's drunk, and you need to stop trying to fix your parents! PLEASE as so many of us have already said, PLEASE go to an al-anon meeting and learn how to deal with them so that they will stop using you! your parent's problems are not your problems as long as they are drinking. if they aren't sober, JUST HANG UP. don't attempt to reason, JUST HANG UP. there is nothing that they can do to you if you don't help them now, and your help will do no good if they have not hit rock bottom and want to quit drinking. JUST HANG UP for your own sanity. Boydette, I just read Dennis' two posts and want to add my "AMEN" to what he has said. Children of alcoholics often go the route you are going, trying to fix their situations, behaving like the parent to their parents. You are going to have to let the chips fall where they may and let them experience the consequences of their actions. They are not going to stop their destructive lifestyle anytime soon, and it will take even longer if you enable them more. If they end up in the hospital and are declared incompetent, then you should come to the fore. Sounds to me like they need to hit the end of their rope before anyone can help them. SignatureEvelyn (To reply to me personally, remove sox) > > She is > > totally delusional.........NONE of this is true so I am like trying to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > JUST HANG UP for your own sanity. I appreciate all your responses except Tumbleweeds....you are an a.s...if the post was too long for you or not written in a style acceptable to you then how about just NOT read it... Didnt your mama ever teach you if you aint got nothing nice to say dont say nothing?....I thought this was a support group not a class for proper typing styles......sheesh.....As for the suggestions of Al-Anon how do I put this? Its too much like religion and I hate religion.....also all those stories of despair do not help my anxiety and depression....I have read books and done workbooks for Adult children of Alcholics tho....Also I do have caller ID and sometimes I just dont answer it but then she will leave message after message and when she is sober she can be okay at times....believe me I hear yall about letting them hit bottom....Its just hard thats all and I am SCARED.....yesterday and today I ignored all calls and messages cause I am just too sick right now to deal with it....and there is no way I could ever take care of their finances so that will never happen.......still trying to get my meds but at this point not yet....thanks to those of you who care....B > I appreciate all your responses except Tumbleweeds....you are an > a.s...if the post was too long for you or not written in a style [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > their finances so that will never happen.......still trying to get my > meds but at this point not yet....thanks to those of you who care....B Dear Boydette, I hope you find a way to get your meds, because getting your own health stabilized will be the best thing towards helping you deal with other crises. If your sister's name is on the account with your mom, SHE will finally be forced to deal with the issues, NOT YOU, when her credit goes down along with theirs. She will then be forced into action and at that point you can both cooperate together towards helping them, but I don't foresee anything happening till then. I admit, sitting by and watching them all come to ruin is hard, maybe the hardest thing you can do, but it is necessary. When they get into big trouble for not paying their bills it will definitely call attention to their situation, and that can only be good. We were in the same situation. My mother in law insisted on remaining independent long after she no longer should have. We knew that there was going to come some sort of a crisis, and we feared what it would be. Sure enough, one day her neighbor called us and told us to come and get her. We breathed a sigh of relief that her prolonged "independence" didn't end with a fire or her getting lost in the street or worse. She took too many of her pills, she didn't take enough. She burnt the handles off kitchen pots she forgot on the stove, and the place was a disaster. So I DO KNOW how awful it is waiting for a phone call telling of who knows what. Our society protects peoples autonomy till they prove they cannot any longer be autonomous. Telling you to be patient and sit by may seem hard and cold, but it is all you can do. We did it, and so many others here also did it. You can do it too and there is no way around it. I feel sorry for the people who have no loved ones or children at all, to watch out for them, and who are found half starved, living in squalor all alone or who burn their houses down around their heads because no one was able to help till it was really and truly too late. Don't be too hard on Tumbleweed, he is a bit crusty sometimes, but he has a good heart. I had a conversation with Tumbleweed once about cats and I still get a chuckle when I think of it. He told us here that cats are no-good, opportunistic little critters....and I defended the cats..... then Tumbleweed proceeded to tell how his neighbors cat moved over to his place because the food and attention was better. He's a softie underneath, but don't let on I said so. LOL! SignatureEvelyn (To reply to me personally, remove sox) : I feel sorry for the people who have no loved ones or children at all, to : watch out for them, and who are found half starved, living in squalor all : alone or who burn their houses down around their heads because no one was : able to help till it was really and truly too late. I really feel for these folks too. Before this becomes an <aol>m3 t00</aol> I'll add that I don't know which of the two things contributes more to this feeling, empathy or a good old fear of what's in store for me or my lady X years down the road. > I appreciate all your responses except Tumbleweeds....you are an > a.s...if the post was too long for you or not written in a style > acceptable to you then how about just NOT read it... Tumbleweed might have said it more tactfully, but his advice is sound. Breaking your post up makes it much easier for people to read, understand and respond with helpful suggestions. I'm sorry he hurt your feelings. If all you want to do is rant and don't want support, then say so up front and you can wander on as long as you want. If, however, you want people's help, make it easy for them to help you if you can (I realize some WebTV units may not have much formatting ability, and I don't know what you are using.) You are in a tough and sad situation -- but don't flail at the people who are trying to offer you their own experiences. Songbird Ok I am trying to understand.....I have always posted this way (webtv and others) and I never had anyone say this to me before....I also have noticed most posts (webtv and others) are written much the same way as I posted..its true having web tv I am not computer savvy....so I apologize for my ignorance....it will be hard for me to try a new way but I will try to remember...thanks for your input NEW PARAGRAPH I still think Tumbleweed is an a.s for doing it the way he did JMO > Ok I am trying to understand.....I have always posted this way (webtv > and others) and I never had anyone say this to me before....I also have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > NEW PARAGRAPH > I still think Tumbleweed is an a.s for doing it the way he did JMO Hey thats much more readible :-) p.s Its nothing to do with computer savvy, its writing stuff so its easy for people to read it. 2 or 3 screens of block text means most people won't. Of course, you may say "I dont care if it isn't read" but then why bother posting it? SignatureTumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) > I appreciate all your responses except Tumbleweeds....you are an > a.s...if the post was too long for you or not written in a style > acceptable to you then how about just NOT read it... Tumbleweed might have said it more tactfully, but his advice is sound. Breaking your post up makes it much easier for people to read, understand and respond with helpful suggestions. I'm sorry he hurt your feelings. If all you want to do is rant and don't want support, then say so up front and you can wander on as long as you want. If, however, you want people's help, make it easy for them to help you if you can (I realize some WebTV units may not have much formatting ability, and I don't know what you are using.) You are in a tough and sad situation -- but don't flail at the people who are trying to offer you their own experiences. Songbird heh . . . there's also plenty of sober parents that arent that old, that need to be hung up on jim Signature-------------------------------- if u really want to email me, click on the address below netnews.comcast.net@Pexoteric.org take a P before you click send -------------------------------- > > > She is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > JUST HANG UP for your own sanity. > I have tried > everything yall suggested to me before and NOTHING Is working... no you haven't. you have ignored the major suggestion, which is simply to ignore them. you haven't started attending al-anon meetings, and that's what you need to do to help you get the strength to simply disconnect from them, which is what you need to do. that's what will work --- not enabling them to continue this alcoholic behavior. get caller ID and block calls from their phone. IT'S NOT YOUR PROBLEM if they overdraw their account, don't pay their bills, or need a ride to the liquor store. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM AND THEIR BEHAVIOR, and if there are consequences for their actions, they are the ones that need to suffer them, not you. oh, and if you haven't gotten back on your own meds to help you handle this, now's the time. their problems should NOT make you depressed. Hi - I am not a member of this group, but had been reading the different threads, and wondered whether it would be allright for me to make some "unsolicited" comments? If that is not appropriate, please tell me so, and I will "stifle." I am a very old lady (86), but alert and well enough to still be in my own home. I read he sad letter of the family member, talking about his problems wih his parents, and also the answers to the letter. I cannot help but feel that, in this case, nothing will work but an intervention from a social services agency. The interactions between the various family members are too complex at this point to promise a resolution - if there is any at all. May I suggest that you call your local Social Services Department, and ask for a home visit by one of their experienced social workers. Do not hesitate to ask whether the designated worker has an MSW degree, since, in some states, almost anyone can hang out a shingle - so to speak - without necessarily having the appropriate background, which often can have some dire results. What this will do is: =====take the responsibility and involvement off the children's shoulders, and, at the same time, put it on more experienced, professional shoulders, who can, hopefully, exercise better judgment, since they are not involved emotionally. =====open the possibility of meeting with the social worker, by themselves, to discuss the situation, and the suggestions the worker will put forth. =====It will help with possible feelings of guilt, frustration and resentment,etc.etc., since the possible actions involved wil not be yous, but the social workers'. The most serious challenge here, in my opinion, is to get a competent social worker and agency; many are not that great!!! Do not be afraid to ask for background and references. This would be a first step. All other considerations,such as finances, alcoholism, will hopefully fall into place and offer resolutions, in this very complex case - but it will definitely help remove some of the awesome responsibiliy. I would also suggest NOT to give the parents elaborate explanations as to the nature of his person's visit - or, preferably, not announce it at all. Social workers can handle "resistance. I hope noone will mind my injecting my two cents worth. Perhaps I should add that I took care of my aging husband, at home, for three years, when he had Alzheimer and Parkinson. My background (before I retired) is as a psychologist. Thank you for letting me "lurk"!!!===Olly All very good suggestions and I will try very hard to remember what yall said...I really do need my meds for my own well being and I am working on trying to get help directly from the drug companies....I got approved for one and am waiting on the other now....my husbands insurance kicks in in March so for sure by then...but it seems a long way away right now...I agree that my sister is just gonna HAVE to deal with it....and I also know its a long waiting game and the fear of what next???....thats what is so scary its the waiting part which is wreaking havoc on my mental health....Olly you certainly are articulate for a lady of your age....(I hope that came out right....LOL)...I have tried calling Senior Social Services and they wouldnt do anything I also emailed the main agency in the capitol city of the state where I live and they did not respond....I think alcohol dementia is not given the same consideration because it is self inflicted....also I dont know but if they were to stop drinking it may help...heck they might even get better...I dont see that happening tho...I dont want to keep whiining and bitching about this....actually I should be used to it I have been putting up with it for 52 yrs.....I have a little speech all prepared in my head the next time I talk to mom.....which may not be any time soon cause mentally I am not up for it right now....but I am gonna tell her basically what yall have all said...I promise....as for AA well that is something I have tried in the past and it just didnt work for me....I am not knocking it...I know its a good program and has done alot of good....but there were times I came out of those meetings NEEDING a drink...LOL...okay thats not funny but you get the idea.....with my anxiety disorder everything stresses me....hell I cant even hardly watch the news...anyway THANK you all for your love concern and sharing your wonderful wise experience with me.....watching someone lose their minds is just so frustrating and scary....Boydette Hi Olly, Good advice. I hope you stick around with more input. -- Mare mfcoleman@THEOLEmindspring.com http://www.muggsmulcher.com/kstuff/a.s.a/intro.htm alt.support.alzheimers' FAQs and Stuff Pages I used to have a handle on life...but it broke off > Hi - I am not a member of this group, but had been reading the different > threads, and wondered whether it would be allright for me to make some [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > retired) is as a psychologist. > Thank you for letting me "lurk"!!!===Olly Boydette, Its ok to unload. I used to have to do that when Bertie was living and she didn't drink. I know it must be very, very difficult. A friend of mine who owns a nursing home told me I might have to get our phone number changed, because Bertie was calling for every little thing.(before she moved in with us) We didn't do it, but in your case I think I might. Kay Boydette, if it is a joint checking acount, your sister can withdraw all the funds (if there are any) and close that account. Then she could open one in her name only or with her and you signing on it. Then have the address changed so no bills go to her house. She does not seem to be responsible enough to be taking care of anything. Either you or your sister need to take over, whether she likes it or not. JMHO. Gwen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx Christmas gift suggestions: to your enemy, forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart;; to a customer, service; to all, charity; to every child, a good example; and to yourself, respect. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx | Just what I have been fearing for months....my sister got notification | mom is bouncing checks.....we have no idea exactly what she has done yet | but my sis is having a fit cause she is on the account....the weird part | was mom had just called me and said she needed a ride to the | store....for the one millionth time I explained I do not have a vehicle | til my husband gets home.....then for the millionth time she says where | is your car....MOM I dont have a car....whered it go....MOM I traded it | in for the truck and Tim drives it to work....Well where is YOUR | car....MOM we have ONE vehicle.....sheeesh.....anyway when he gets home | we will see...so what do you need? Beer and a bottle...(grrrrrr) I had | made a promise to myself not to help contribute to their drinking I am | like I will let you know when Tim gets home thinking I just wont call | her back or maybe she will forget....then I am thinking what is she | planning on using for money?...she must be planning on writing another | check....so I call my sister and tell her whats going on She says NO she | has no money in the bank...in fact its overdrawn.....so I call my mom | back and plain flat tell her I cant take her to the store cause she has | no money in the bank...shes like well I got my check here...which would | be for Dec which means it wasnt deposited..... that also means highly | unlikley any BILLS were paid....I am like MOM you have to put that in | the bank....its overdrawn....Shes like..."dont tell me what to do with | my money.....I have X amount of dollars in there....its none of your | business....and I havent written any checks".....etc etc....She is | totally delusional.........NONE of this is true so I am like trying to | reason with her.....MOM if you didnt put your check in the bank there is | no money in there!!!! GEEEEZ....and if there is no money how did you pay | your bills... and she tells me I have no right to question her and hangs | up....which was fine with me CASE closed for now.....My sister was | supposed to go get the check and deposit. it but like I said we still | have no idea yet what she has done....the one that we know for sure has | been returned she denies writing and its for an even amount which | indicates to us it cannot be for a bill...so basically what they are | doing is just spending money on drinking and what little bit of of food | they eat and NOTHING else...what I have feared most is coming | true...they are gonna end up losing something and its gonna be bad....I | know there is no advice any of you can give me...trying to keep my | distance is just not working....letting them fall on their face is | easier said than done....and telling them I am NOT doing this or that | falls on deaf ears since they dont remember from one time to the next | that I have told them that...There just are NO answers....I have tried | everything yall suggested to me before and NOTHING Is working...but | thanks for letting me vent....I just needed to unload.....Boydette | I am sorry I responded to the others before I read your post....one problem about doing that is my sister is not willing to involve herself in any of this....the only reason she did this time was because she doesnt want her credit damaged.....I have asked her and asked her since she is on the account to please see to it that moms check gets in and the bills get paid....but she refuses to do it.......my dad has a separate account and he gets twice as much money as my mom does so it really shoudl be him doing it and he aint taking care of it either....his check is directly deposited so we have no idea what he does with it...my sister has tried to close the account but the bank says they both have to do it....one minute mom agrees the next she wont....as for trying to get control in any way it takes a court action which will take a lawyer and also a doctor to declare them incompetent....we just dont have the money for that.....if we could get them to sign over power of attorney that might work but I dont see them cooperating with that idea.....one thing about alcoholics they will protect their means to provide for their addiction........I appreciate the suggestions though....wish somehow it could be worked out that way...Boydette I wish I had better suggestions to offer, Boydette. Looks as if you are just between a rock and a hard place. I really do sympathize and will be praying for you. My belief in God and prayer is very strong. Gwen xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx Christmas gift suggestions: to your enemy, forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart;; to a customer, service; to all, charity; to every child, a good example; and to yourself, respect. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx | I am sorry I responded to the others before I read your post....one | problem about doing that is my sister is not willing to involve herself | in any of this....the only reason she did this time was because she | doesnt want her credit damaged.....I have asked her and asked her since | she is on the account to please see to it that moms check gets in and | the bills get paid....but she refuses to do it.......my dad has a | separate account and he gets twice as much money as my mom does so it | really shoudl be him doing it and he aint taking care of it | either....his check is directly deposited so we have no idea what he | does with it...my sister has tried to close the account but the bank | says they both have to do it....one minute mom agrees the next she | wont....as for trying to get control in any way it takes a court action | which will take a lawyer and also a doctor to declare them | incompetent....we just dont have the money for that.....if we could get | them to sign over power of attorney that might work but I dont see them | cooperating with that idea.....one thing about alcoholics they will | protect their means to provide for their addiction........I appreciate | the suggestions though....wish somehow it could be worked out that | way...Boydette | > one > problem about doing that is my sister is not willing to involve herself > in any of this.... and that's exactly what you should do, too. and PLEASE get back on your meds! *that* will probably do more to help you handle them than anything else. Your sister isn't making a whole lot of sense. If her name is on that joint account, her credit WILL be damaged by your mother bouncing checks etc. Your sister may not be able to close the account, but she should get her name removed from it. It should not be joint. Get your rear to AA - you are so enmeshed in enabling and rescuing and generally standing by wringing your hands in this very sick relationship, you have blinders on, and are really not hearing any of the excellent advice you are getting. You reject everything that suggests you stand back as impossible - but it is the only way you are going to survive this. Having dealt with a person with serious addictions in my own family (a brother with alcohol and drug problems), it was painful and difficult to pull out of the mess, but that is exactly what I had to do. I wasn't helping him, no matter how hard I tried or what tack I took - because he didn't WANT to change - and I certainly was pouring time and emotional energy into a black hole to my own detriment. Mary G. Just a side note - though the courts don't encourage it, it's possible to get someone declared incompetent without hiring legal counsel, or with volunteer or low cost counsel. It depends on where your Mom and Dad live. Bigger cities often have agencies which take the overflow from legal aide. A call to the Elder Affairs office in that local should get you some referrals. Some Law schools have family law clinics. Students handle your case with supervision of a professor. Or you file the papers on your own. It takes some research and effort to get on the schedule and subpoena your witnesses. It can be done. Given your relationship with your family and their multiple issues, please go to al-anon before you consider becoming their legal guardian. You need to learn how to put an emotional distance between yourself and their dysfunctions. SignatureAdelle D. Stavis, Esq. Remove the c in my name for me to see your reply > I am sorry I responded to the others before I read your post....one > problem about doing that is my sister is not willing to involve herself [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the suggestions though....wish somehow it could be worked out that > way...Boydette > Just what I have been fearing for months....my sister got notification > mom is bouncing checks.....we have no idea exactly what she has done yet > but my sis is having a fit cause she is on the account.... Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread, but if I may butt in, you need to take over her finances. Start by having her check direct deposited so she doesn't get it. Get as many bills on automatic pay that you can. Have the rest of the bills mailed to you and you write out her checks. Obviously you'll need to make sure she has some cash. nancy (been there, done that, tshirt blah blah blah) |
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