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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / August 2008Homeopathy? For Neurodegeneration
"Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" Potential Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Cure Found In Century-old Drug ScienceDaily (Aug. 18, 2008) — A new study conducted by researchers at Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland shows that a century-old drug, methylene blue, may be able to slow or even cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Used at a very low concentration – about the equivalent of a few raindrops in four Olympic-sized swimming pools of water – the drug slows cellular aging and enhances mitochondrial function, potentially allowing those with the diseases to live longer, healthier lives. A paper on the methylene blue study, conducted by Hani Atamna, PhD, and a his team at Children's, was published in the March 2008 issue of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) Journal. Dr. Atamna's research found that methylene blue can prevent or slow the decline of mitochondrial function, specifically an important enzyme called complex IV. Because mitochondria are the principal suppliers of energy to all animal and human cells, their healthy function is critical. "The results are very encouraging," said Dr. Atamna. "We'd eventually like to try to prevent the physical and cognitive decline associated with aging, with a focus on people with Alzheimer's disease. One of the key aspects of Alzheimer's disease is mitochondrial dysfunction, specifically complex IV dysfunction, which methylene blue improves. Our findings indicate that methylene blue, by enhancing mitochondrial function, expands the mitochondrial reserve of the brain. Adequate mitochondrial reserve is essential for preventing age-related disorders such as Alzheimer's disease." Also impressed is one of Dr. Atamna's co-authors, Bruce Ames, PhD, a senior scientist at Children's and world-renowned expert in nutrition and aging. "What we potentially have is a wonder drug." said Dr. Ames. "To find that such a common and inexpensive drug can be used to increase and prolong the quality of life by treating such serious diseases is truly exciting." Methylene blue, first discovered in 1891, is now used to treat methemoglobinemia, a blood disorder. But because high concentrations of methylene blue were known to damage the brain, no one thought to experiment with low concentrations. Also, drugs such as methylene blue do not easily reach the brain. Dr. Atamna's research is the first to show that low concentrations of the drug have the ability to slow cellular aging in cultured cells in the laboratory and in live mice. He believes methylene blue has the potential to become another commonplace low-cost treatment like aspirin, prescribed as a blood thinner for people with heart disorders. Dr. Atamna's research, funded by the Bruce and Giovanna Ames Foundation, was conducted at Children's research institute and will continue when Dr. Atamna assumes a position as a professor of Neuroscience at The Commonwealth Medical College in Pennsylvania. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Journal reference: Atamna et al. Methylene blue delays cellular senescence and enhances key mitochondrial biochemical pathways. The FASEB Journal, 2007; 22 (3): 703 DOI: 10.1096/fj.07-9610com Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 19, 7:45 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote:methylene blue << "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" Hands up if we want to try it in grandads .. water .. ? FK .. those .. guys .. FDA .. AMA .. PhD .. MSc .. grade six .. Methylene blue is a .. stain .. used in laboratories to enhance visual and what else .. ? What is is used to .. detect .. ? ANYbody .. know .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk In alt.support.mult-sclerosis ironjustice@aol.com <ironjustice@aol.com> wrote: > On Aug 19, 7:45 am, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> > wrote:methylene blue << > "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" > Hands up if we want to try it in grandads .. water .. ? > FK .. those .. guys .. FDA .. AMA .. PhD .. MSc .. grade six .. > Methylene blue is a .. stain .. used in laboratories to enhance visual > and what else .. ? > What is is used to .. detect .. ? > ANYbody .. know .. ? Isn't that stuff an acid/base indicator? And doesn't have the interesting side-effect, when ingested, of turning the urine blue? Bill, whose memory for M*A*S*H reruns isn't what it used to be. "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" No Homeopathy claims are made for the drug or its function. Highly diluted chemicals do not Homeopathy alone make . Homeopathy would claim that concentrating it would make it less effective. The dilutions Homeopathy uses are so rarified that some of the substances put in the water do not appear because there are not enough molecules of it to be present. They claim it instead does something to the water. On Aug 19, 12:09 pm, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: The dilutions Homeopathy uses are so rarified that some of the substances put in the water do not appear because there are not enough molecules of it to be present. << A few drops in four olympic sized swimming pools .. a dilution .. does .. make. Now you can argue about how many times a guy raps the bottle on his Bible .. but the very .. argument OF the detractors TO homeopathy is the very fact the chemical / substance is diluted so .. thoroughly .. that there would be NO .. benefit. In theory .. according to the detractors. THIS study seems to say .. it is ALREADY well .. known .. that this methylene blue .. a few drops in the equivalent of four olympic sized swimming pools .. DOES have an .. affect on 'something' OR the research wouldn't be proceeding. So like I said .. Homeopathy? .. would mean to ME .. yes because of the very FACT the **dilution** .. works WHEN .. others say .. "dilution would not work no chance in hell" .. but I guess THAT only pertains to substances that are found in nature and NOT to a .. drug .. stain .. like methylene blue .. ? No .. one drug or substance diluted to the point there would be nothing left of it .. drops in four olympic sized swimming pools .. ? Logic says this article points to .. homeopathic .. **means** .. One might even wonder what the .. poisoning .. with methylene blue would result in. Cognition and neurodegeneration .. ? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > water do not appear because there are not enough molecules of it to be > present. They claim it instead does something to the water. visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << They should take advice from someone about homeopathy who doesn't know what a .. dilution .. is .. ? Maybe what YOU should do is send them the methylene blue article and say to THEM .. "A few drops in two and a half million gallons of water does not a .. dilution .. make" .. See if they laugh you out of the room .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. On Aug 20, 11:59 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote:If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. << Why are YOU .. posting it .. ? YOU have no .. input .. ? YOU just .. defer to others .. ? What we've ALL observed in the last couple of months is the PROVING of the **theory** of the basic principles OF .. homeopathy. Previously we found that snake venom / homeopathy snake venom .. we found snake venom causes hemolysis and then we FIND here in the groups that homeopathic snake venom is USED for .. a disease which manifests hemolysis. We ALL know that one was a .. fluke .. BUT this one where they have SHOWN clearly the **minute** dilution of methylene blue has a significant **affect** .. then well .. as logical .. reasonable .. scientific .. people .. we SEE clearly that dilution IN FACT exists and IS .. **beneficial** .. Dilution the very PREMISE of homeopathy .. One doesn't need to read about all the Bible thumping these guys do / did but who knows .. vibrations and such .. but the **dilution** has NOW been .. proven .. Imho .. By two fundamental principles of homeopathy be found to be coincidentally correct. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of > homeopathy: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send > it to the above links. It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. On Aug 20, 1:56 pm, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: snip << We read it .. you posted it already .. didn't ya .. ? "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" Potential Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Cure Found In Century-old Drug ScienceDaily (Aug. 18, 2008) — A new study conducted by researchers at Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland shows that a century- old drug, methylene blue, may be able to slow or even cure Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Used at a very low concentration – about the equivalent of a few raindrops in four Olympic-sized swimming pools of water – the drug slows cellular aging and enhances mitochondrial function, potentially allowing those with the diseases to live longer, healthier lives. A paper on the methylene blue study, conducted by Hani Atamna, PhD, and a his team at Children's, was published in the March 2008 issue of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) Journal. Dr. Atamna's research found that methylene blue can prevent or slow the decline of mitochondrial function, specifically an important enzyme called complex IV. Because mitochondria are the principal suppliers of energy to all animal and human cells, their healthy function is critical. "The results are very encouraging," said Dr. Atamna. "We'd eventually like to try to prevent the physical and cognitive decline associated with aging, with a focus on people with Alzheimer's disease. One of the key aspects of Alzheimer's disease is mitochondrial dysfunction, specifically complex IV dysfunction, which methylene blue improves. Our findings indicate that methylene blue, by enhancing mitochondrial function, expands the mitochondrial reserve of the brain. Adequate mitochondrial reserve is essential for preventing age-related disorders such as Alzheimer's disease." Also impressed is one of Dr. Atamna's co-authors, Bruce Ames, PhD, a senior scientist at Children's and world-renowned expert in nutrition and aging. "What we potentially have is a wonder drug." said Dr. Ames. "To find that such a common and inexpensive drug can be used to increase and prolong the quality of life by treating such serious diseases is truly exciting." Methylene blue, first discovered in 1891, is now used to treat methemoglobinemia, a blood disorder. But because high concentrations of methylene blue were known to damage the brain, no one thought to experiment with low concentrations. Also, drugs such as methylene blue do not easily reach the brain. Dr. Atamna's research is the first to show that low concentrations of the drug have the ability to slow cellular aging in cultured cells in the laboratory and in live mice. He believes methylene blue has the potential to become another commonplace low-cost treatment like aspirin, prescribed as a blood thinner for people with heart disorders. Dr. Atamna's research, funded by the Bruce and Giovanna Ames Foundation, was conducted at Children's research institute and will continue when Dr. Atamna assumes a position as a professor of Neuroscience at The Commonwealth Medical College in Pennsylvania. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Journal reference: Atamna et al. Methylene blue delays cellular senescence and enhances key mitochondrial biochemical pathways. The FASEB Journal, 2007; 22 (3): 703 DOI: 10.1096/fj.07-9610com Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk With each new installment we shall expand upon points about homeopathy. visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical results for normal and homeopathy treatments for the same diseases. The homeopathy showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective treatments. With each new installment we shall expand upon points about homeopathy. << You know fkall about homeopathy .. so don't be saying .. we .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical results for normal and homeopathy treatments for the same diseases. The homeopathy showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective treatments. Here is the cointerpretation of the results: "there was weak evidence for a specific effect of homoeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions. This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are placebo effects." In other words, homeopathy is no better then sugar pills. On Aug 21, 5:17 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: Http://www.quackwatch.org<< http://www.quackpotwatch.org/ The "quackbuster" operation is a conspiracy. It is a propaganda enterprise, one part crackpot, two parts evil. It's sole purpose is to discredit, and suppress, in an "anything goes" attack mode, what is wrongfully named "Alternative Medicine." Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Maybe you should write some new pages .. ? Write them .. yourself .. ? > If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send > it to the above links. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > In other words, homeopathy is no better then sugar pills. visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical results for normal and homeopathy treatments for the same diseases. The homeopathy showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective treatments. Here is the cointerpretation of the results: "there was weak evidence for a specific effect of homoeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions. This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are placebo effects." In other words, homeopathy is no better then sugar pills. Two british people who are in favor of alternative medical methods but only if they can be shown to work challenge the homeopathy crowd. 'Competition puts homeopathy on trial' http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19826613.200&print=true ""We're saying to homeopaths, 'put up or shut up'," says Singh. The pair are not against complementary remedies." They offer 10000 british pounds, about $17000 to back up the challenge.. On Aug 21, 7:40 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: snip << http://www.quackpotwatch.org/ The "quackbuster" operation is a conspiracy. It is a propaganda enterprise, one part crackpot, two parts evil. It's sole purpose is to discredit, and suppress, in an "anything goes" attack mode, what is wrongfully named "Alternative Medicine." Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical results for normal and homeopathy treatments for the same diseases. The homeopathy showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective treatments. Here is the cointerpretation of the results: "there was weak evidence for a specific effect of homoeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions. This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are placebo effects." In other words, homeopathy is no better then sugar pills. Two british people who are in favor of alternative medical methods but only if they can be shown to work challenge the homeopathy crowd. 'Competition puts homeopathy on trial' http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19826613.200&print=true ""We're saying to homeopaths, 'put up or shut up'," says Singh. The pair are not against complementary remedies." They offer 10000 british pounds, about $17000 to back up the challenge.. In the us people stung by the quack buster folk tried to discredit the effort by suing because of some personal mention of an individual said to be slander. The quackbuster folk lost because they did in fact say those personal things. However when the quacks say they won in court what they fail to say is that it was for slander which is a personal attack but not for liable which is to tell a lie. The quacks have never been able to provide evidence showing any of the claims about the value of homeopathy are wrong. They can only attack the messenger and not the science showing they are quacks and homeopathy does not work. On Aug 21, 8:59 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: snip << http://www.whale.to/a/quackwatch.html Quackwatch (originally Lehigh Valley Committee Against Health Fraud, Inc.) is an AMA shill that took over from the Coordinating Conference on Health Information (CCHI) and the AMA's propaganda department called the Committee on Quackery when it had to disband. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 21, 3:12 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: http://www.whale.to/a/quackwatch.html << "Court ordered Barrett to post $400,000.00 after losing" Barrett Loses Appeal, Leaves Town Fight Back, Join the Foundation for Health Choice by Betty Martini. D. Hum Self-proclaimed Quackbuster, Stephen Barrett, MD, recently handed crushing defeats by chiropractor Tedd Koren and Ilena Rosenthal, has announced he is leaving his hometown and operating base in Allentown, Pennsylvania. On June 11th, 2007, the Superior Court of Pennsylvania affirmed a lower court dismissal of Barrett's defamation suite against Dr. Koren. Barrett's case was so lacking in merit the judge blocked it from going to the jury. Barrett simply had no case against Dr. Koren. This followed another stunning defeat last month in California. There an appeals court ordered Barrett and crony Terry Polevoy MD to post bonds of more than $400,000.00 after they lost a defamation case against Illena Rosenthal virtually identical to the Koren case. Perhaps the fact that lawyers and judges in Allentown are catching on to his intimidation schemes explains why Barrett is moving to Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Barrett can run but he cannot hide. Chapel Hill collection attorneys are already being asked to locate his assets to pay his unmet legal obligations. Assets of other Quackwatch Inc., principals might also be sought. Who Is Steven Barrett, What Are Quackbusters? Steven Barrett is an unlicensed Pennsylvania psychiatrist, who, though he failed his psychiatric boards and has been criticized for lack of expertise by several courts, still claims to advise the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the FBI, State Attorneys General, HMOs, Consumer Reports, medical journals and state medical, chiropractic and dental boards. The insurance industry cites Barrett's highly opinionated Quackbuster attacks to deny paying claims for chiropractic and other natural healthcare. Barrett and the Quackbusters, a vigilante group of self-proclaimed skeptics of any medical or health modality that avoids drugs, surgery or radiation, attack almost all non-conventional healthcare practices as quackery. Ignoring all scientific research to the contrary, they dismiss Gulf War Syndrome, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Chemical Sensitivity, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and dietary supplements as rubbish. Two-time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling is on their quack 'hit list' along with many well-known and respected doctors and scientists, including Deepak Chopra, Andrew Weil and dozens of others. Barrett claims to give over 500 interviews a year to newspapers, magazines, and television shows, including CNN and the Today Show. He claims to have been a peer- reviewer for seven medical journals, including the Journal of the American Medical Association, even though he had no license to practice medicine when he did the reviewing. Quackbusters run over 70 websites. Millions of people go to them every year. Look up chiropractic, acupuncture, homeopathy or even vitamin C, as well as almost every other natural health topic on the Internet and you (and the public) will be led to Quackbuster sites advising you of natural health dangers. In all these forums Barrett and the Quackbusters relentlessly attack the consumer right to informed choice. These activities continue the Amass anti-quackery committees activities that were struck down by federal courts as an illegal restraint of trade in a landmark lawsuit brought by Illinois Chiropractor Chester Wilk. They also help insurance companies deny consumer reimbursement claims. At the same time, Barrett flacks for products like aspartame (NutraSweet), which is the subject of tens of thousands of consumer complaints. Question (asked on Barretts web site): An email message is being circulated with many statements to the effect that aspartame is dangerous. How worried should I be? Answer (from Barrett): Not at all. The message is pure rubbish. What Did Dr. Koren Do to Provoke Barrett's Shakedown? Dr. Tedd Koren is a well-known chiropractor, researcher, writer and lecturer. Barrett sued Dr. Koren in 2003 for calling him a Quackpot, saying he was in big trouble because of a racketeering law suit brought against him and attacking his lack of a medical license in his internet newsletter. The trial judge and three appeals judges agreed unanimously that these statements were so far from defamation that no jury could be legally allowed to call them defamation. Dr. Koren also said Barrett was delicensed. One of the three appeals courts judges thought a jury might be able to find this to be defamation. However two appellate judges disagreed and jurors interviewed after the trial said they too saw through Barrett and felt that he was a litigious, ungrounded and biased denier of the truth. In part jurors formed this view because Barrett testified with great self-satisfaction in the Koren case that he had sued many doctors - close to forty-in similar cases - demanding up to $100,000 if they wished to avoid a costly lawsuit. Some paid - how many is yet to be discovered. Drs. Koren and Rosenthal and a few others did not. Barrett has failed to win a single lawsuit in this shakedown scheme. Dr. Koren's Legal Team Well known consumer advocate, James S. (Jim) Turner, general counsel to Koren Publications, who several years earlier had persuaded the FTC to drop an investigation against Dr. Koren (brought at a time when Barrett was a consultant to the FTC), organized and coordinated the legal team that represented Dr. Koren. Attorney Christopher Reid of Allentown, Pennsylvania acted as associate trial counsel and appellate counsel and California health freedom attorney Carlos Negrete acted as trial counsel. Mr. Negrete said, "Fortunately for all of his colleagues, Dr. Koren decided not to back down and took the case to trial. Barrett is part of a group of intolerant individuals. I am not certain who the supporters of the so-called Quackbusters are, but they seem to me to be just skinheads with stethoscopes." During heated and often dramatic courtroom proceedings, Mr. Negrete pointed out many of the questionable statements Barrett includes on his websites attacking chiropractic, as well as facts about Barrett's own credentials that shocked even his supporters. Mr. Turner says, "It is very important that a very responsible judge in Barrett's hometown recognized that he was making false allegations and dismissed the case. Barrett has cost untoward numbers of consumers pain, anguish and probably serious harm by his misrepresentation of the facts about subjects ranging from acupuncture to zinc." Mr Turner, who among other campaigns led the team that got acupuncture needles approved as safe by FDA, worked with a Senate committee to abolish the dysfunctional vaccine regulatory agency, worked with whistleblowers to stop the Swine Flu inoculation campaign, kept aspartame off the market for ten years, and played a key role in lobbying the Organic Food Production Act through Congress (all areas on which the Foundation for Health Choice focuses). Mr Turner says, "Our objective is to end Barrett's abuse of consumers by eliminating the false and misleading information from his website and his entire network of websites and replacing it with sound, useful information for consumers." Says Dr. Koren, "This is just the beginning. Just as the FTC battle was not about Tedd Koren alone but had ramifications for the entire chiropractic and natural health professions, so the Barrett v. Koren battle will have major ramifications for all. Were going to give the Quackbusters a taste of their own medicine. They'll learn how dangerous medicine can be." "Our mission is not just about revealing the Quackbusters to be the unscientific bigots that they are. We are fighting for healthcare freedom. One of our goals is to permit parents to make sound decisions about vaccination for their children. There are too many sound health reasons for certain children to avoid vaccination and the government has recognized too many vaccine-caused deaths and maimings (over $1.5 billion of compensation has been paid to bereaved families by the federal vaccine injury compensation system since 1988) to allow a non- vaccinated child to be refused day care, school, college or employment," says Dr. Koren. Mr. Turner is also lead counsel in a case brought against Barrett by Dr. Don Harrison, the chiropractor who founded and leads Chiropractic Biophysics. Sign up to receive our free newsletter and updates. Please join us. Visit us, write to us, support us at; www.foundationforhealthchoice.com Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Quackwatch (originally Lehigh Valley Committee Against Health Fraud, > Inc.) is an AMA shill that took over from the Coordinating Conference [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 21, 3:12 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: http://www.whale.to/a/quackwatch.html << http://tinyurl.com/67z8 "Defeat for the Quackbusters" JUDGE THROWS OUT LAWSUIT AGAINST ILENA ROSENTHAL ORDERS BARRETT, POLEVOY & GRELL TO PAY HER ATTORNEY'S FEES Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > Quackwatch (originally Lehigh Valley Committee Against Health Fraud, > Inc.) is an AMA shill that took over from the Coordinating Conference [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 21, 3:12 pm, "ironjust...@aol.com" <ironjust...@aol.com> wrote: homeopathy << http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/index.asp Welcome to Homeopathic Materia Medica Center. You can find here remedy descriptions, online books on Materia Medica, articles and papers related to Homeopathy Materia Medica. Explore the world of homeopathic medicines! Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk Each new installment will add more information at the end. visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims of homeopathy: http://www.homeowatch.org/ It is a sister site to quack watch which deals with similar nonsense: Http://www.quackwatch.org << If anyone thinks they have a good defence of homeopathy they should send it to the above links. That way we can get the full range of opinion and input ffrom experts who have long studied the truth claims. All readers would be better informed. A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical results for normal and homeopathy treatments for the same diseases. The homeopathy showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective treatments. Here is the cointerpretation of the results: "there was weak evidence for a specific effect of homoeopathic remedies, but strong evidence for specific effects of conventional interventions. This finding is compatible with the notion that the clinical effects of homoeopathy are placebo effects." In other words, homeopathy is no better then sugar pills. Two british people who are in favor of alternative medical methods but only if they can be shown to work challenge the homeopathy crowd. 'Competition puts homeopathy on trial' http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19826613.200&print=true ""We're saying to homeopaths, 'put up or shut up'," says Singh. The pair are not against complementary remedies." They offer 10000 british pounds, about $17000 to back up the challenge.. In the us people stung by the quack buster folk tried to discredit the effort by suing because of some personal mention of an individual said to be slander. The quackbuster folk lost because they did in fact say those personal things. However when the quacks say they won in court what they fail to say is that it was for slander which is a personal attack but not for liable which is to tell a lie. The quacks have never been able to provide evidence showing any of the claims about the value of homeopathy are wrong. They can only attack the messenger and not the science showing they are quacks and homeopathy does not work. Here are some examples of the homeopathy fraud in action: The World's Most Outrageous Homeopathic Marketer http://www.homeowatch.org/reg/BHI/bhi.html On Aug 21, 4:34 pm, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote:homeopathy << http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/index.asp Welcome to Homeopathic Materia Medica Center. You can find here remedy descriptions, online books on Materia Medica, articles and papers related to Homeopathy Materia Medica. Explore the world of homeopathic medicines! Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 21, 7:34 pm, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: > Each new installment will add more information at the end. > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > http://www.homeowatch.org/reg/BHI/bhi.html Your excuses, circumlocutions, evasions, explanations and long winded condemnations are quite fruitless - you attempt to dismiss an entire system of medicine, a system with numerous positive studies before the research to validate and provide a theory of its mechanisms has even finished. Hence, you tell us that there is NO research to support Homeopathy, let's kill it.... but then that would stop the research currently in progress. The best speculative evidence is that Homeopathy, if it is validated, must depend on nanotechnological mechanisms for which we don't even have test equipment yet. It takes research to find out stuff at that level. So, without knowing the outcome, and because it goes against your "common sense" you tell us it is quackery. Perhaps you'd like to dismiss Einstein's theories too, that's beyond almost everyone's "common sense" too. If you stop and think about what you are doing, you are actually the unwitting dupe of a kind of middle ages style witch hunt and the main goal of the media attacks against Homeopathy is to prevent widespread knowledge of its cost effectiveness, fast working response and complete absence of "side effects". If this thing works, and the evidence so far is that it DOES, though nobody knows exactly how or why, some companies are going to lose a HUGE amount of money with their standard pharmaceuticals. Citizen Jimserac > On Aug 21, 5:17 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: > Http://www.quackwatch.org<< > > http://www.quackpotwatch.org/ above site is the creation and operation of paid shill tim bolen - fact fabricator extraordinaire that tom would cite it for information speaks volumes. On Aug 24, 11:50 am, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:long winded whack << http://kook.us/holland.htm Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 24, 2:50 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > > On Aug 21, 5:17 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: > > Http://www.quackwatch.org<< [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > that tom would cite it for information speaks volumes. http://www.quackpotwatch.org/ Excuse me? Do you assert that he fabricated the story about the prosecution, persecution, character assasination and subsequent droping of all charges against Salvatore d' Onofrio described at that web site? That he was made to stay in jail, in soitary confinement for well over a month. That was all a fabrication? Citizen Jimserac well cj - first - that story isn't on 'that' website - it's an article on another of tim's websites. as to the claim made that somehow barrett was responsible in that case, here is the court information concerning barrett: "The passage suggests that I made a false police report, which would be a criminal offense. I never heard of Salvatore D'Onofrio and, at the time Bolen made this accusation, I did not have the slightest idea what he was referring to. Bolen subsequently claimed to have copies of police reports and a summary of a telephone interview of me by a police investigator. The documents, which we obtained through the discovery process, indicate that in 1996, a police investigator questioned me about the American College of Nutripathy, a nonaccredited correspondence school from which D'Onofrio had obtained three "degrees" during a 21-month period. I have no recollection of his name being mentioned during the interview, and nothing in the police report indicates that it was. At a deposition, Bolen also produced a newspaper article indicating that D'Onofrio's arrest was triggered by a woman who had complained to the police that she had been inappropriately fondled during an examination in D'Onofrio's home. The article also stated that at least ten other women had made similar complaints after the arrest was made public." so - tim's making a claim isn't proof of anything. this particular charge has been around how many years now? at least 5 that i know of - barrett was never charged with filing a false police report, doesn't show up on D'Onofrio's charging documents as a 'source - yet tim still tries to float the canard. secondly - i am one who has received his 'newsletter' email screeds WITHOUT ever signing up or otherwise opting in to receive it, i can personally attest to the sloppiness of his operation - opting folks onto a listserv, email list, or other delivery system without first having a double opt in requirement means that folks end up getting material that they never asked for - and that is spam... third - imo, the man is boring in his inflammatory and over the top style - and, from my own perusal of the 'facts' that he presents, a goodly portion of them aren't facts at all, simply opinion. and hyperbole at that. that isn't to say that none of what he presents is factual, some of it is - some... most importantly is that he is simply a hired rep, doing what he is paid to do - that is not in any way objective on his part - he isn't paid to be objective, rather to put out a certain 'side'. i think that i shall continue to look to better sources for my information than someone who has to operate out of a 'rent a mailbox', has had his personal residence foreclosed upon, and been to tax court on occasion for unpaid personal taxes [1994-2003] and barrett, for his part, has also framed some of his positions from opinion, and not just fact. if you disagree - fine - i really don't care. > On Aug 24, 2:50 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac On Aug 25, 2:10 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > well cj - > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Paul T. Holland: I was hoping you'd come forward. Could you provide me with an address and a personal biography? You, and your "quackpot" friends have adequate reason to hate and fear me, for I will hunt the scum/filth that preys on those that would change the US health care system until I've finished my work - and I am VERY successful, so far. As you know, Paul, I am the one responsible for luring that silly old fool Stephen Barrett into the California NCAHF v.King Bio, and helping the court declare Stevie as "biased, and unworthy of credibility," which action, of course, made it impossible for Stevie to testify in ANY court of law ever again. That was FUN!!! And, "shitbag bobbie baratz" the PRESIDENT of your flagship organization the NCAHF, dives over or under tables when I walk into the room. How impressive. Recently, bobbie declined to even show up in a case in Calififornia where he was supposed to be the "star" witness after he found out I was the consultant for the Defense. I read your analysis of my work, above, with amusement. Your "spin" comes right out of Quackpot Central. Put in for a raise. You have access to all of the REAL information about the subjects you mentioned above, with your connection to Quackpot Central - so, I am assuming, here, that you intended, with malice, to put a negative spin on what you wrote - and that that action constitutes intentional defamation. Are you prepared? Get me that personal information, please... Don't run and hide. Prepared, in California... Tim Bolen lololol - i'll snip and get right to timmy's response > Paul T. Holland: > > I was hoping you'd come forward. since you had no knowledge of what groups i may or may not visit, nor any knowledge of what topics i might or might not choose to write about, you were NOT >hoping you'd (i'd) come forward nice of you to start your silly bombastic puffery with a lie. >Could you provide me with an address why should i? [ you obviously don't remember many years ago when we went thru this same sort of nonsense] ] > and a personal biography? again, why? you always try to go this route with folks - instead of actually addressing anything that was written it remains - stupid of you > You, lions and tigers and bears, oh my! >and your "quackpot" friends oh timmy? since i don't know any quackpots, never met any, never communicated with any, don't have any as friends - that is lie number two. >have adequate reason to hate and fear ooooooooooooo - hate and fear? naw - but i do find you funny as all get out > me, for I will hunt the scum/filth that preys on those that would big bad hunter eh? well enjoy yourself - i couldn't care less > change the US health care system until I've finished my work - and I > am VERY successful, so far. sure you are! lololol as i said in my post - you are a 'paid shill' for various interests of [imo] dubious quality. > As you know, Paul, really? i do? how can you possibly ascertain what i do or do not 'know'? rhetorical ploys are boring timmy >I am the one responsible for luring that silly old > fool Stephen Barrett into the California NCAHF v.King Bio, and helping > the court declare Stevie as "biased, and unworthy of credibility," > which action, of course, made it impossible for Stevie to testify in > ANY court of law ever again. That was FUN!!! well my goodness - who would have thought! > And, "shitbag bobbie baratz" such language - oh! that's right you're tim bolen - this is your normal mode of expression - such a fine example you set timmy - lol >the PRESIDENT of your flagship 'your' (my)??? lie number three timmy - 'i' have no connection whatsoever with the individual you are referring to > organization the NCAHF, dives over or under tables when I walk into > the room. really? do you have pictures? video? witnesses to such actions? tell you what timmy - put it up on youtube! >How impressive. what is? your over the top expressions? your inventions of association that don't exist? >Recently, bobbie declined to even show up > in a case in Calififornia where he was supposed to be the "star" > witness after he found out I was the consultant for the Defense. of course, sure, you bet, you're the star aren't you kid? > I read your analysis of my work, above, with amusement. great! humor is such a wonderful tonic - glad to have provided you with some amusement >Your "spin" > comes right out of Quackpot Central. but timmy - you're the 'spin' artist - the paid shill for the 'movement' >Put in for a raise. lololololololololololol is that the 'raise' you wish you could have? > You have access to all of the REAL information about the subjects you > mentioned above, with your connection to Quackpot Central - let's see here, hard to keep track, but i do believe that is lie number four - but you know that don't you timmy? because you are simply making up falsehoods - i don't have access to people, or information, or entities that i have no connection to, now, or in the past but reading your lies is such fun - it will be a laugh riot seeing what else you come up with! >so, I am > assuming, ah! assuming - what this whole missive has been - the rankest of assumption >here, that you intended, with malice, to put a negative spin > on what you wrote ow, ow, ow! i know this one timmy! now you're going to make some threats aren't you? cluestick for you timmy - i have every right to express an opinion. unlike yourself, i didn't, and don't, simply make things up - for instance: i call you a paid shill. you are by your own admission, a paid consultant - you have at least one, if not more, businesses for that purpose. that 'you' think this is negative isn't my problem. you're a big fella, suck it up and live with the idea that others may not find what you do so pure and beneficial - that's the way it works in this country. >- and that that action constitutes intentional > defamation. yawn - i know the cartooney was coming now here is a simple fact: disagreeing with another person about 'opinion' isn't a tort, isn't defamation, and isn't in any way against the law - on the other hand timmy - you have in this post written that 'i' am supposed to have associations that, in fact, don't exist that i am 'friends' with them, that i should 'put in for a raise' that i have 'access' that i have a 'connection' your assertion of 'facts' are actually your pure inventions now, 'i' don't have to assume anything about why you wrote those things - it's just what you did. was it intentional that you invented those supposed 'facts'? well, you could have asked - but you didn't did you intend to be malicious attempting to associate me with individuals i do not know? you could have checked around, but you didn't you 'could' have been a reasonable person and had a reasonable discussion - but you didn't you have always been a humorous individual timmy - you don't disappoint here. if, on the other hand, you were to continue to make such unfounded accusations - then that would be proof of your intention...wouldn't that be a hoot! poor timmy, hoist on his own petard. > Are you prepared? lolololololololol > Get me that personal information, please... request denied, silliness noted for the record >Don't run and hide. why whatever are you intimating? your 'are' one of the most humorous fellas timmy! wasting your time here on usenet, all huff n puff as if this were rl - but what the heck, if you want to waste your time go right ahead - i'm sure that some will find your posturing as humorous as i do. > Prepared, in California... well good for ya! > Tim Bolen lololol >I was hoping you'd come forward. Could you provide me with an address >and a personal biography? You first, Tim. What is your address? (Please don't pretend that you live in a mail box.)  SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com On Aug 25, 2:10 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > well cj - > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Paul T. Holland: I forgot a question. Do you live in Greenbelt, Maryland? Curious in California... Tim Bolen > Paul T. Holland: > > I forgot a question. i doubt that - more likely it occurred to you after hitting send...or, perhaps you're just wasting more bandwidth >Do you live in Greenbelt, Maryland? your request for information has already been denied as being impertinent- do you enjoy being laughed at? let me correct this for you: > Curious in California... trying to be a bully from california > Tim Bolen On Aug 27, 2:30 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> wrote: > jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Paul T. Holland: Well, thank you very much for walking nicely into that trap. For now, not only have you defamed me publicly, but you have exhibited the most important aspect of defamation - "malice." You have exhibited, not only, outright lies, but you have made it clear you do so with apparent malice - as in: mal·ice Pronunciation: \ˈma-ləs\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin malitia, from malus bad Date: 14th century 1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another 2 : intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse synonyms malice, malevolence, ill will, spite, malignity, spleen, grudge mean the desire to see another experience pain, injury, or distress. malice implies a deep-seated often unexplainable desire to see another suffer <felt no malice toward their former enemies>. malevolence suggests a bitter persistent hatred that is likely to be expressed in malicious conduct <a look of dark malevolence>. ill will implies a feeling of antipathy of limited duration <ill will provoked by a careless remark>. spite implies petty feelings of envy and resentment that are often expressed in small harassments <petty insults inspired by spite>. malignity implies deep passion and relentlessness <a life consumed by motiveless malignity>. spleen suggests the wrathful release of latent spite or persistent malice <venting his spleen against politicians>. grudge implies a harbored feeling of resentment or ill will that seeks satisfaction <never one to harbor a grudge>. Good job... Now you've given me even more options. I'll think about it, and get back to you with what I want. I suggest you contact an attorney. You're going to need one. So, since you refuse to identify your address then you must realize that the jurisdiction for this issue is right here where I am. And, your ISP will give you up on the first subpoena. Very concerned in California... Tim Bolen On Aug 27, 11:13 pm, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote: > On Aug 27, 2:30 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > For now, not only have you defamed me publicly, but you have exhibited > the most important aspect of defamation - "malice." Timmie, an important part of any defamation claim is that you show that you have a reputation that has some value, and the defamation damaged that value. In my purely personal opinion, and opinions cannot be the basis for defamation, my great-great-great-great-great grand children will still be waiting for you to do that. yes folks, it is definitely lions, tigers, and bears, oh my! time - a parsing we shall go: > On Aug 27, 2:30 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...@bellatlantic.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Well, thank you very much for walking nicely into that trap. lolol of course timmy - a trap - lololol - go ahead, timmy, you can take the hook out now... > For now, not only have you defamed me publicly, golly shucks timmy - that's the second time you've made that claim - whilst not actually stating what it is that you object to - i on the other hand specifically pointed out those portions of your little rant that were outright falsehoods - care to apologize? not that i particularly care if you don't - to not retract your false statements about me and the nonexistent associations that you painted will serve as confirmation of 'your' intent... >but you have exhibited > the most important aspect of defamation - "malice." ah! you do like that word - unfortunately there is not malice - only a simple reply to the falsehoods your wrote about me. > You have exhibited, not only, outright lies, you may of course, present any specific statement that you claim to be a lie - care to share? >but you have made it > clear you do so with apparent malice - as in: i have made it clear, and affirm unequivocally that your statements about me were and are false - > mal·ice > Pronunciation: \Ëma-lÉs\ [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Good job... that i don't allow you to invent associations or alliances that i do not hold? yes > Now you've given me even more options. see timmy? you are a 'wordsmith" painting pretty pictures...things as you see them - that others disagree must be so difficult for you > I'll think about it, gosh i would certainly hope so! >and get back to you with what I want. fine by me >I suggest well, that is a start, so much more polite than to demand > you contact an attorney. You're going to need one. yawn > So, since you refuse to identify your address au contraire - i refused your impertinent request - a simple denial of unnecessary information now, had you on the other hand, retracted your false allegations about me, i might feel otherwise. but, since you appear to be set on course of misrepresenting my position you are not deserving of such. >then you must realize that you are attempting ot bully me? of course - i've read where you have done this before. > that the jurisdiction for this issue is right here where I am. And, yawn > your ISP will give you up on the first subpoena. okey dokey > Very concerned in California... now, don't be concerned timmy - i'm not just stop making false allegations about nonexistent connections between me and those others, until you do, i'll have to continue to call them the lies that they are believe me, i don't care about you at all. so a little bit of attitude adjustment on your part and we could agree on something > Tim Bolen > homeopathy: > > http://QUACKQUACK > http://QUACKQUACK > > Organization: Tambov State Technical University Hello, Hi everyone my name is Dave Forsyth and I am the President of the SEWF and I am currently in the need of a writer. If you think you got what it takes to write some matches then let me know and I will give you the chance. The SEWF has had its problems because of my witting skills and that's why I need a good writer. If anybody thinks they can do it then contact me ASAP. Plus the SEWF is now accepting newcomers. If you would like to join then let me know and I will give you the addy so that you can sign the application. THanks for you time and I hope to hear from all of you soon. PRESTIDENT OF THE SEWF, DAVE FORSYTH ae...@seorf.ohiou.edu http://luthuli.cs.uiuc.edu/~daf/ On Aug 21, 8:17 am, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: > visit this site for all one needs to know for the truth claims ofhomeopathy: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > In other words,homeopathyis no better then sugar pills. BULLSHIT! Repeat that nonsense as often as you like... it's still BULLSHIT! Citizen Jimserac > BULLSHIT! > > Repeat that nonsense as often as you like... > it's still BULLSHIT! It's really sad to see what happens when children first find out about the Easter Bunny. They get *SOOO* upset. | The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ > A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical > results for > normal andhomeopathytreatments for the same diseases. Thehomeopathy > showed poor or no results while the normal treatments were effective > treatments. Numerous studies show benefits well beyond placebo. And the clincial evidence for Homeopathy is OVERWHELMING and INCONTROVERTIBLE. Try to learn something about Homeopathy before pointing to some brain dead web site. Citizen Jimserac > > A british medical journal did a study in a review of research artical > > results for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Citizen Jimserac Oh yes! Citizen Jimserac >> Numerous studies show benefits well beyond placebo. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Oh yes! > Citizen Jimserac Wow. AOLing one's own post. | The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ On Aug 20, 11:30 am, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: They should take advice from someone about homeopathy who doesn't know what a .. dilution .. is .. ? << Sure looks like homeopathy .. "If a remedy is diluted 1:100 (one part remedy in 99 parts diluent) it's called a 1C dilution. 1:100 of the 1C is called 2C; another 1:100 is 3C; etc., etc." "A few drops in two and half million gallons of water" How Many Succussions do You Use to Make Homeopathic Dilutions? © Copyright 2002 by Bruce H. Shelton, M.D., M.D.(h), DiHOM & HEEL Inc. USA Medical Director, USA (Explore Issue: Volume 11, Number 6) Homeopathy is the field of medicine formulated by Dr. Samuel Hahneman, M.D., starting with the codification of the word Homeopathy in 1796, and which he continued formulating and modifying right up until his death at age 88, in 1843. Key to the philosophy is the serial dilution of the remedies that get STRONGER "Biologically" as they get more dilute, or WEAKER from a "chemical" standpoint. THE MORE DILUTE THE REMEDY, THE MORE POTENT THAT IT IS FOR THE PATIENT. However, there is another key piece of the Potentization Equation. In- between each dilution step is a SHAKING step, known as SUCCUSSION. A remedy that is diluted 1:10, involves one part of the remedy to 9 parts of the diluent (which is usually a 20% alcohol water solution). This 1: 10 dilution is called a 1X dilution. Making another 1:10 of the first 1X is called 2X. Doing it again makes it 3X. If a remedy is diluted 1:100 (one part remedy in 99 parts diluent) it's called a 1C dilution. 1:100 of the 1C is called 2C; another 1:100 is 3C; etc., etc. A series of 1000 1:100 C dilutions is called a 1M dilution. A 1:50,000 dilution is called a 1LM Potency; 1:50,000 of the first 1:50,000 is called 2LM; etc., etc. HOWEVER, in between each serial dilution, in order for the dilution to be truly considered Homeopathic, it has to be VIGOROUSLY SHAKEN against either a leather book (Hahneman used his Bible) or the palm of the hand. This vigorous shaking is called SUCCUSSION, and is an integral part of the Homeopathic process. The number of "succussions" required for each dilution is not necessarily cast in Homeopathic stone, and is a matter of debate among homeopathic physicians, some of whom actually violently disagree on the correct numbers almost as much as traditional doctors disagree with the validity of Homeopathy itself. At a recent lecture that your author gave in Seattle, Washington, we were demonstrating how to make a Blood Isode. We were doing ten succussions in between each dilution step, and a member of the audience challenged the procedure, saying that it wouldn't be a valid dilution unless it had been diluted 100 times in between each step. After agreeing to disagree, the lecture concluded, leaving the opportunity to author this article. The best place to start any research project nowadays is of course, the Browser on the Internet. Simply typing the word "succussion" in the window brought up 1,244 different web pages from which to explore the answer for the question. The best three from which to get good data are: www.similibus.com/hahnemanns_dose.html by Dr. Will Taylor, M.D. www.alchemilla.com/hana/Lm_water.html referenced by the Hahnemann Academy in Santa Fe, N.M. www.homeoint.org/morrell/articles/pm_succu.htm by Peter Morell The answers obtained reveal that Hahnemann initially only succussed twice between dilutions, and than advised his patients to shake vigorously before taking their daily dose of the remedy. He feared that remedies that were shipped long distances would be violently shaken during transport, thus really making them more powerful than originally intended. Eventually he worked through the idea of diluting and succussing the remedies and than spraying the liquid onto lactose globules and having them dry forevermore at that final potency on the globules. In the 6th and final edition of the Organon, he introduced the concept of the 1:50,000 dilution LM potency, and actually wrote that this dilution needed 100 succussions in between dilutions. However, there are other parts of the 6th edition that make reference to shaking at 8, 10 or 12 shaking steps, and others at simple "vigorous" shaking. When your author earned his DiHom degree from the British Institute of Homeopathy, a 1X dilution was defined as a 1:10 dilution with ten succussions, while a 1C dilution was defined as 1:100 dilution, but again, with TEN succussions. This philosophy is mirrored in the articles on the Internet. Therefore, the right answer seems to be: 2 Succussions 8 Succussions 10 succussions 12 succussions 100 succussions Or just Vigorous Succussions. What is accomplished by these succussions? It is widely felt that the violent shaking somehow energizes the remedy and adds "Necessary Energy" to the solution. Experiments have been done with hard physical measurements that have proven that the chemical bonds between the molecules actually get stronger. The final answer is as yet to be written, and the answer may actually be all of the above? No one seems totally right and no one is totally wrong! Someday we may actually find the right Woodchuck, chuck that wood and solve one more mystery of the Universe. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk On Aug 19, 9:44 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:One might even wonder what the .. poisoning .. with methylene blue would result in. << Hemolysis .. closely resembling .. lupus .. Sooo in theory this would be just as good as .. homeopathic snake venom .. using the dilution theory .. Pediatrics. 1996 May;97(5):717-21.Links Methylene blue-induced phototoxicity: an unrecognized complication.Porat R, Gilbert S, Magilner D. Division of Neonatology, Albert Einstein Medical Center, Philadelphia, PA 19141, USA. OBJECTIVE. To describe photosensitization after prenatal exposure to a toxic amount of methylene blue and to alert pediatricians that, in a review of the literature, photosensitization (which this dye is capable of) has not been reported as a complication of prenatal exposure. DESIGN AND PATIENTS. A descriptive report of physical findings and significant laboratory tests in a very low birth weight preterm infant with prenatal exposure to methylene blue and a comparison of this reported case with previously described patients' complications and treatment. SETTING. Neonatal intensive care unit. INTERVENTION. Monitoring of laboratory tests to assess for methylene blue toxicity: two exchange transfusions for methemoglobinemia, hemolytic anemia, and hyperbilirubinemia; phototherapy for hyperbilirubinemia; and pathologic examination of skin bullae. RESULTS. Within hours of exposure to phototherapy, redness developed on all exposed areas of the patient's skin (which was initially deep blue), followed by bullae and desquamation of about 35% of the total skin surface area. The desquamation of erythematous areas continued even after discontinuation of phototherapy. Complete re-epithelialization was attained by 3 weeks of age. In addition to this newly observed complication, the patient had other previously described toxic effects. CONCLUSION. We have reported a previously unrecognized complication associated with high prenatal exposure to methylene blue and treatment with phototherapy. Methylene blue phototoxicity may be related to the high prenatal dose of the dye relative to patient's small size and young gestational age. PMID: 8628613 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/634q5a Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/4rq595 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Aug 19, 12:09 pm, anonym...@nowhere.you.know wrote: The dilutions > Homeopathy uses are so rarified that some of the substances put in [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - > "Equivalent of a few drops in four swimming pools of water" > > No Homeopathy claims are made for the drug or its function. Highly > diluted chemicals do not Homeopathy alone make . Homeopathy would claim > that concentrating it would make it less effective. So why do some of their "medicines" say take2 pills if a mild attack, 4 if severe? SignatureChris, (on tour) Intellect is invisible to the man who has none. Schopenhauer > So why do some of their "medicines" say take2 pills if a mild attack, 4 if > severe? Maybe that's a typo? In a life-threatening situation, take only one. Whatever you do, don't skip taking them at all or you'll overdose. | The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ > Homeopathy would claim > that concentrating it would make it less effective. The dilutions > Homeopathy uses are so rarified that some of the substances put in the > water do not appear because there are not enough molecules of it to be > present. They claim it instead does something to the water. Well, actually they claim that the "laws" that Hahnemann taught apply, and the rest is /post/ /hoc/ justification. http://dcscience.net/?p=243 | The brighter the stupid burns, the more | | chance that someone will see the light. | +- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ |
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