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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / May 2008

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I Feel Resentment

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Diane P. - 03 May 2008 09:22 GMT
Just found this NG and I must say I almost feel guilty about posting here,
but here goes.

We have been caregiving for almost 5 years. Husband and I are both retired
and had some plans to do the things we always wanted, but I guess it wasn't
to be. We took his mother in after she had a heart attack and then a second
and "brought her back" to decent health after the clots in her legs and the
fluid in her lungs resolved. The dementia started about a year before she
got ill. It started with the checkbook issues. Although we had recommended
to my husband's parents they should do some retirement planning, they
didn't. So here we are.

Now, with almost 5 years of our lives revolving around an almost  90 year
old, I am tired, stressed and resentful. She's in second stage, and just
recently started the sundowning, not bathing and hiding in the hallway while
peeking at the TV telling me bad things are about to happen. She is not
oriented to time and place, and can't answer a simple question with an
answer that makes sense, or even answer a phone or follow a simple
instruction. She's in relateively good health, except for the kidneys that
are beginning to fail.

I must be the one that needs the help, because if I have to make one more
bowl of oatmeal or be accused of taking things from her room, I am going to
scream. You might conclude, that after all this time, I have had it. And,
you would be absolutely right. Husband says that January when his mother
turns 90, we will look into a faciltiy. Actually, I don't know if I can last
that long. 5 years is a lot of living to give up for someone who is not even
related to me.

I guess, I am the one who needs the help and this may not be the proper
place to post what I feel, but I feel much better having said all this.

D.
Chuck Whealton - 03 May 2008 17:20 GMT
> Just found this NG and I must say I almost feel guilty about posting here,
> but here goes.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> D.

Diane:

The way you feel is to be expected.  You're NOT a bad person for
feeling this way.

Other's here will have better advice for you than I do as I was a bit
lucky in the way my Mother, Aunt, and Uncle went from their various
forms of dementia.

I will say this - finding a facility to care for your Mother in Law is
very important and you should probably start NOW rather than later.
You don't need to put her someplace and then be up at night worrying
about the decision you made.  It's more of a process than an overnight
decision.  It'll probably be bad enough no matter HOW good the place
is when she first goes there.  It might not hurt to talk to an elder
care attorney.

I'd start these things NOW, not in January.  Taking care of somebody
suffering from dementia puts a serious stress on anybody.

Good luck - and yes, you came to the right group.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
weeks - 03 May 2008 17:29 GMT
Hi, Diane,
I agree with Chuck (Charles) that now is the right time to start looking.
My mother was placed in a facility 3 weeks ago.  We chose the facility over
a year ago knowing the time was coming.  Also, you can't predict what could
happen to them physically or mentally to speed up the placement process.
Don't feel resentful of what you know will eventually be inevitable.  It's
better to be proactive for your MIL.
Best wishes.
smiles,
Elise

>> Just found this NG and I must say I almost feel guilty about posting
>> here,
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> Charles R. Whealton
> Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com
Diane P. - 03 May 2008 19:38 GMT
Your advice and kind words brought tears to my eyes.

Thanks for recognizing I am tired and stressed and not willing to do this
much longer. The sundowning which just recently started and as silly as it
sounds, 3-4am was my time for the paper, coffee and Internet stuff. Now with
MIL's hours upside down, that just about did it. There is no downtime. She
was roaming the house at all hours and waiting to be fed.

We have a lawyer and all documents were taken care of before her mental
condition got too bad, so we have the necessary papers in place. There's an
Alzheimer's specific facility about 5 mins from here that's decent, so we
plan to make an appointment to see about future placement.

Her doctor saw the mental deterioration in full bloom at her last visit. We
asked about meds and he said at her advanced age and mental condition they
really wouldn't do her much good.

Thanks everyone!

D.
sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 03 May 2008 20:29 GMT
Diane, no wonder you're stressed. If you can't even have time for yourself
around 3-4 o'clock during the night, when can you?
It is impossible to be on duty around the clock seven days a week.  Your
body and mind will just wear out.  You just have to have some down time in
order to function.  If it is possible, convince your husband not to wait
until this year ends to place her in a facility.
All of you would be better off with her being taken care of by someone else
who can go home when the shift is over and forget about the frustrasions and
worries of the past shift.  And you and your husband could visit her without
the fatigue and resentment that builds up doing the 24/7 bit.  Most everyone
who has posted after keeping the patient at home just as long as possible
before placing them says they wish they had done it sooner, that all would
have been better off.  Things will not get better at your house during the
next months; it will only get worse.  My best wishes for you to get some
relief sooner rather than later.
Gwen

Your advice and kind words brought tears to my eyes.

Thanks for recognizing I am tired and stressed and not willing to do this
much longer. The sundowning which just recently started and as silly as it
sounds, 3-4am was my time for the paper, coffee and Internet stuff. Now with
MIL's hours upside down, that just about did it. There is no downtime. She
was roaming the house at all hours and waiting to be fed.

We have a lawyer and all documents were taken care of before her mental
condition got too bad, so we have the necessary papers in place. There's an
Alzheimer's specific facility about 5 mins from here that's decent, so we
plan to make an appointment to see about future placement.

Her doctor saw the mental deterioration in full bloom at her last visit. We
asked about meds and he said at her advanced age and mental condition they
really wouldn't do her much good.

Thanks everyone!

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 03 May 2008 20:52 GMT
> Your advice and kind words brought tears to my eyes.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> D.

Diane, my dear....

I am so glad you are going to look into it.   I took care of my mother in
law for several years and I waited TOO LONG to seek placement.   I know
exactly how you feel and you should absolutely feel NO GUILT whatsoever
about venting your frustration and exhaustion.

It sounds to me as though it is absolutely time to place her.   If not for
her, certainly for you.   Nobody should have to get to the point of complete
mental and physical exhaustion in the care of another, not when there are
perfectly good places out there who have people who do this professionally,
and who get to actually go home after a day or night shift to experience
some uninterrupted sleep!

Fortunately we were able to get my mother in law into a good local nursing
home where she got excellent care.   Everything I told myself as a reason to
keep her at home longer, turned out to be WRONG.    I finally got my life
back when we placed her, and even then it took almost a year for me to get
back to anything like normal should be.

It took my husband a good whole year to learn to sleep through the night
again.   It took me as long to pull out of the depression I was in, and to
start enjoying my home life again.    The sacrifices we made to care for her
I don't regret, but I certainly do regret waiting way too long to place her
in a nursing home.

I swore that none of my kids should ever have to sacrifice their personal
life, their interests, their very souls, to take care of me, should I ever
get like that.

Nursing homes may not be palaces, but they provide clean beds, clean
clothes, decent food, and professional people ON DUTY 24 hours a day, who do
this by choice, as a profession, and who get to go home and decompress in
their own homes at least some of the time.   Home caregivers get none of
that, or else far too little of it.

Believe me, ALL of us here sympathize with you!   We have all been through
the caregiver scene in one way or another.   Please for you own sake, that
of your marriage and even for hers, look into placement NOW.   Don't DREAM
of waiting till January.   Life is too short.

Bless you!  I know how you feel and I totally sympathize!

(((((( hugs ))))))))

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Beth Cole - 05 May 2008 19:20 GMT
> Your advice and kind words brought tears to my eyes.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> MIL's hours upside down, that just about did it. There is no downtime. She
> was roaming the house at all hours and waiting to be fed.

You've got to get her placed soon.  The fact that you cannot ever not be
on duty will cause your own health to suffer if it hasn't already.  You
need to be able to get a break.

Please show your husband all of these responses.  He needs to know that
waiting really isn't an option.  Placing her now, when it isn't an
emergency, will be the kindest thing you can do for her.

Beth

Signature

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

Diane P. - 05 May 2008 22:55 GMT
> You've got to get her placed soon.  The fact that you cannot ever not be
> on duty will cause your own health to suffer if it hasn't already.  You
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Beth

Thanks, Beth.

We are now discussing what needs to be done, my husband, myself and MIL's
sister who is her only close relative. She, the aunt, is very concerned
about us and does agree that MIL needs care elsewhere.

I have found a caregivers support group here in town and I will get myself
there.

I have waited too long to participate, I think.

D.
A R Pickett - 03 May 2008 17:38 GMT
In response to Diane, Chuck wrote in part -

> I will say this - finding a facility to care for your Mother in Law is
> very important and you should probably start NOW rather than later.

I echo Chuck's advice.  It's not at all unusual for a placement to become
necessary almost overnight, as the result of a fall, a previously
undiagnosed chronic condition, and reading your note again, something
similar happening to YOU because of your own fatigue and stress.

When that time comes, with no planning in advance, she will be placed where
there is room.  In too many cases, the reason there is room is because no
one wants to go there or to place their family member there.  With advance
planning, you have the opportunity to retain some peace of mind that (1) she
will be in a safe, appropriate environment and (2) you have retained control
of her affairs on her behalf.

with your husband's time table in mind, you have about seven months to
investigate and plan.  The advice of an eldercare attorney can also help
with planning.

This is the right group to listen to others' advice, and to ventilate.

Take care and keep us posted.

Signature

A R Pickett aka Woodstock

"Sometimes the facts threaten the truth"
Amos Oz, prize winning Israeli author

Read my book reviews at:
http://www.booksnbytes.com/reviews/_idx_ws_all_byauth.html

Now blogging!
http://www.journalscape.com/woodstock/

Remove lower case "e" to respond

Baird Stafford - 03 May 2008 21:55 GMT
<snip>

> Husband says that January when his mother turns 90, we will look into
> a faciltiy. Actually, I don't know if I can last that long. 5 years
> is a lot of living to give up for someone who is not even related to
> me.

Advise your husband to start looking NOW, not in January.  Most
facilities at least where I live have a waiting list that is a minimum
of six months long, and the better ones have longer lists.  First come,
first served is not unfair except to those who have emergencies - and
I'd count your resentment as an emergency.

One question, though:  are you related to your husband?  If so, how can
you not be related to his mother?  This is NOT meant as a put-down, by
the way, but perhaps to suggest an alternate way to regard the situation
that may help tone down your perfectly natural feelings - even though I
doubt it will eliminate them (none of us is that saintly!).

Be blessed,
Baird
Dennis P. Harris - 04 May 2008 07:42 GMT
> I must be the one that needs the help, because if I have to make one more
> bowl of oatmeal or be accused of taking things from her room, I am going to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that long. 5 years is a lot of living to give up for someone who is not even
> related to me.

don't wait!  tell your husband she needs to be placed NOW, and
start looking immediately.  the good facilities always have
waiting lists.

and don't even think about consulting your mother in law about
her wishes, since she can no longer make rational decisions and
the topic will only upset her.  when you are ready to move her,
take her on a day trip while her stuff is being moved to the new
place, then take her there to stay "for a few days so we can take
a vacation".

> I guess, I am the one who needs the help and this may not be the proper
> place to post what I feel, but I feel much better having said all this.

we all need help, which is why this group is here.  most of us
have been there and done that.  feel free to vent, that's why
we're here, and we don't allow guilt.  once you have done all you
can, you should never feel guilty about handing care over to
professionals who don't have to live with it 24/7.
Diane P. - 04 May 2008 10:18 GMT
Thanks to all of you, but I have a question.

We have a highly respected geriatric care manager in this area. Is there a
need for such a person to assist in placement or is it better to just go
around to various facilities in the area and do this ourselves?

I realize this would involve some cost, but that's not an issue.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 04 May 2008 12:37 GMT
> Thanks to all of you, but I have a question.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> D.

Hi Diane,

I never used one, and honestly don't quite know what they do.   We spoke to
the local office for the aging in our area who sent a nurse over to
interview her and us, who managed the case for free.   The most important
part that we really needed help with, was to get the medicaid application
paperwork done.

The doctor had to sign a report, and we had to have certain documents in
order, including a medicaid application, even though it wasn't needed
immediately......and we, of course, spoke to our elder law attorney who did
charge us to help put that together accurately.   It was worth paying him
for that.

It all came together for us quite smoothly.   If you have an attorney and a
local office for the aging that handles such things, you may not even need a
manager, that is up to you.   But then, as you say, if cost is not an issue,
why not?   All the nursing homes require a lot of paperwork and having help
with that was a blessing.   It also would help if someone in your area is
familiar with all the local nursing homes and could help you find placement
for her.   So if that is what a geriatric manager does, then I'd say go for
it!

There was only one small hitch in the process for us.   She had a urinary
tract infection and had to take some antibiotics to clear that up
beforehand.   I will never forget how long those last two weeks were while
we waited for a clear test!   We were already at our wits end.   Once the
UTI cleared up and all the paperwork was signed and in place, we drove her
over to the local facility and wheeled her in a wheel chair inside.   We
helped her get situated and then left, feeling just awful, but we knew it
had to be done if we were to preserve our sanity.

We told her it was a hospital and she would just stay for a little while.
She asked us when she could go home, and we told her if she got well and did
all they asked her.    We never told her she would be there for the rest of
her life, which did turn out to be the case.  We wanted her to be cared for
and to feel hopeful and to work with the various physical therapists and
social therapists and such.   The nursing home we used had an entire team
who worked with each patient.

It was such a joy to be able to just go and visit her and chat a bit, then
to go home to a peaceful quiet home that was finally all ours again.   It
took us nearly another year to finally feel normal in our own home again.
She was only about 7 miles from our house, and we went to see her often.
They would call us.... even at 3 am if she fell out of bed, or for any
little tiny mishap.   They were wonderful.

She got excellent care there and she died almost a year to the day after she
was admitted of pancreatic cancer.   If it wasn't for that, she might
probably still alive.   She had a very strong constitution.

Also, I have to tell you she adapted very well psychologically to the place
within a week.   It was as though she forgot she ever lived anywhere else,
excepting for the odd question to go home once in a while.   Within an
amazingly short time she seemed to adapt there.   It was a great relief to
us, since we struggled for so long to not have to do this, but now in
retrospect I assure you that I waited TOO LONG and should have done it
sooner.   She was better off and so were we.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 04 May 2008 14:58 GMT
Evelyn: Thanks for the info.

We have a local office for the aging right next to the Alzheimer's facility.
I will give that a try first. The next dr visit should be interesting. Last
time we went to the doc, I was the "liar of the week". ;-)

Ironically, MIL had urinary tract infection that took forever to resolve
because we couldn't get to stop wearing the panty hose until the doc
insisted directly to her. It still wouldn't go away without returning, so
she takes meds for it. Testing reveals no infection.

Interesting days ahead.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 04 May 2008 17:28 GMT
> Evelyn: Thanks for the info.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> D.

Diane it was hell to get my MIL to drink water.   She would drink anything
sugary, but she was also on diabetes meds, so that wasn't a good thing.    I
would suggest she might want to have a glass of diet soda or water and she
really didn't want it much, so we assumed all was well.   As the illness
progresses, they tend to lose their sense of thirst, which is possibly why
these UTI's happen so often.

When I went to the Dr. I would ask to speak to him alone for a minute.   We
went to the same Dr. so it wasn't a big deal.   Also he knew what alzheimers
was all about, so little needed to be said.   You might try typing up a
little note for him and just handing it to him.

I discovered early in the game you couldn't tell the Dr. anything that she
would agree with, because she forgot so quickly...... and certainly she
couldn't perceive what she was doing or not doing, much less remember it.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

layne4@gmail.com - 05 May 2008 03:00 GMT
> Just found this NG and I must say I almost feel guilty about posting here,
> but here goes.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> D.

(((Dear "D.")))

First of all, I must say that my heart goes out to anyone who care-
takes any individual.  It is a hard, emotional draining and consumes
every part of you at times.

My problem with this situation is that you referred to her as non-
related.  When you marry someone it is a package deal.  Seeing that
you stated that you were a senior citizen you might not want to be so
harsh...  Who knows how long until you'll need a caretaker yourself.
Your "mother-in-law" CANNOT help the fact that she is the way she is.
Something I've learned in my 34 years of life is to treat (with the
best of your ability) others as you would like them to treat you.

I know it is hard.  It is frustrating.  You and your husband are
obviously caring people and before long you WILL be able to enjoy life
to the fullest.  When it comes to family you just have to do what is
right.  She is part of YOUR family.  She is RELATED to you by
marriage.  I can assure you that after the fact you will look back on
the entire experience and know that you did the right thing.  Never
forget that she is a human being and she brought your husband into
this world and that is reason enough to love and respect her
unconditionally.  She does not realize that the way she acts is
wrong.  To her it all seems real.  To argue or convince her of
otherwise is traumatizing....every time.

Support groups are amazing in that you can vent and share your issues
with others who are in the same situation.  You will find so many
people who share your frustration and resentment.  If you don't think
it will help, I promise it will.

Just remember the next time you "have had it" and are angry...  some
day that very same person might be you.

Love her and help her as you would want the same for you some day.

Respectfully,
Laynee-girl
Diane P. - 05 May 2008 09:47 GMT
I appreciate your sentiments, but sorry, I still resent the situation at
this time in my life. And, it is now MY time, no OUR time.

I do love and respect my MIL. That fact remains that 5 years has gone by. My
spouse was faced with malignant melanoma just recently on top of all this.
After surgery and removal of two lymph nodes we find that the disease has
not spread. This really opened my eyes to what is most important and it
isn't MIL. It's my husband's and my own mortality and what time we have left
together.

I sat there thinking which is the most important and I chose the spouse. The
MIL was not even a consideration in this picture. I have been married 39
years to the same man, worked for 40 and am in dire need of break. During
the last 5 years of my working life, I held a full time job and drove 500
miles a week to get there, and caregave on top of it all. We have no kids
and no relatives nearby, so I know full well what I'll be facing as I age.

I know she cannot help the way she is, but neither can I. We do everything
possible to keep her clean, well-fed goes for her labs and to the doctor
regularly and keep her as happy as she thinks she can be, but in a situation
like this enough is never enough. Our entire life revolves around her needs
and that is going to have to change. We don't argue with her, but give her
direction about simple tasks, like it's not necessary to wear all three
sweaters at the same time. Sometimes she gets teed off when we tell her
stuff and sometimes not. You never know which way the wind is going to blow.

I am forced to prioritize and it is the hub and me for the rest of our
married life together before the lifeblood is all gone.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 05 May 2008 11:14 GMT
>I appreciate your sentiments, but sorry, I still resent the situation at
>this time in my life. And, it is now MY time, no OUR time.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> D.

Hi D.

I agree with you.

I cared for my mother in law with great diligence and consideration as well,
to the point where we were both exhausted beyond all explanation.   It was
very stressful.   I am not saying I didn't treat her kindly at almost all
times, or that she wasn't treated with love in this house, even though she
was NOT personally related to me, nor was she ever very nice to me in all
the years beforehand, while I was married to her son.   I did it because I
am a nice person, and because it was the right thing to do, being that she
was my husband's mother.  But it did come to a place where I was killing
myself doing it.

I too dispute the other person's reasoning, in that at a certain point
caregiving can become so stressful that one becomes subconsciously
resentful.   NO one can be genuinely happy being cared for by a resentful
relative.   I wouldn't want that, and neither would you.

It is far better to be in a professional setting where it is their JOB to
look after you, and they don't tend to become as resentful because they go
home at night to sleep, to decompress, have private lives.   They get paid
for it as their professional endeavor.   THIS lends a certain dignity to
those they care for.   That kind of dignity is far preferable to killing
ones children with exhaustion.

Being related by marriage or even by blood does not automatically assume
that one should sacrifice ones own health and happiness caring for that
person, especially when there are alternatives that may better preserve the
sick persons dignity, as well as ones own.

Like you, hubby and I are retired, did it almost for 4 years, and we finally
had just had it.    Every day was drudgery and we were both of us spending
our entire life's effort caring for my mother in law.   My husband NEVER got
a full nights sleep, having to get up and change sheets, mop up pee from the
bathroom floor, help her back to bed with clean nightclothes, or pursuade
her that it wasn't time to get dressed yet.   My own health had begun to
suffer and so had his.

This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with being kind, loving, respectful of her
position as hubby's mom.   It had to do with exhaustion and being burnt out.
We were always kind and respectful of her, and after she was in the nursing
home, we were STILL respectful, kind and loving to her.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 05 May 2008 22:51 GMT
> Hi D.
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> burnt out. We were always kind and respectful of her, and after she was in
> the nursing home, we were STILL respectful, kind and loving to her.

Hi Evelyn:

Thanks. My sentiments exactly.

I can do the work required to keep things on an even keel; I am not managing
my psyche very well.

I have probably lost my temper 10 times in my life, 4 times in the last
year, and once during her move to our small ranch. Not to MIL but to my
husband. He himself moved and cleaned out her home with a 50 year
accumulation of stuff that ended up in my basement that looks like a
Goodwill; most of it Goodwill quality. She was the packrat queen. I just had
a bloody fit, but some of the stuff got tossed, but most of it didn't. We
have a small three bedroom ranch. God forbid that I suggested we throw out
my dead father in law's clothes. He's only been gone 10 years, you know.

The other times I lost it was  for minor "Crimes and Misdemeanors", like
calling me a liar;  and then accusing me of taking stuff from her room when
she hid things and couldn't remember where the hiding  place is. I never go
into her room without my spouse.

So, we will begin making inquiries now and make arrangements to see a couple
of places. There is an Alzheimer's specific facility here. She sees the doc
in a couple of weeks and we will have a chat with him then. I suspect she
will need to be evaluated then.

This not washing is driving me crazy. She was so fastidious when she did not
have the dementia. It is heartbreaking. We don't yet have a problem with
incontinence.

I never did treat my MIL in any way that was disrespectful or hurtful
either, but people do reach a breaking point that I am fast approaching and
one always has some sort of emotional response to a situation in which they
find themselves. Mine just happened to be resentment.

I appreciate the support here and think it's important that all of us share
our experiences so others can benefit when they are in need. I certainly
appreciate info and advice gathered from OP's.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 May 2008 02:07 GMT
Diane,

I used to help my mother in law get dressed for the day or undressed for
bed.   I found then was the perfect time to insist on taking a shower.   The
trick was that she was undressed already.  It was more of a natural scenario
for her.  It still took two of us to orchestrate this in the beginning.

So we would just herd her down the hallway into the small bathroom with a
stall shower in it.   I would step in there to wait for her.   (I would wear
a tee shirt and panties so it was obvious I wasn't there for my own shower).

I would get her to sit on the shower stool and I would take the shower head
on a hose, and direct the water away from her.   I'd adjust the temperature
till it was to her liking (and mine).   She was so afraid of the water being
hot or cold, I would make sure it was just right and she approved of it,
before wetting her with it.

I would give her a shower puff to keep her hands busy.   I would help her
soap it up and tell her exactly where to wash.   She couldn't figure out
what to do first or how to do it.   But if I told her what to do it would be
OK.   She would make ineffectual motions, or wash the same underarm over and
over if I didn't.

Usually among the first things I would do, is that I would put some shampoo
on her head and start washing her hair.   This made it a real "committment"
of sorts.   She needed to commit to being in the shower and to being washed
at that point.

Before she might grouse that she only wanted a little washing or something,
or to say "OK now rinse off" to hopefully get out sooner.   Or she would
complain about not needing a shower.   I would just say OK and do what we
needed to do.   It was just like bathing a little kid!  1000 excuses.

She absolutely needed me to make sure she was properly washed, and
comfortable, and I made it sort of like a spa experience for her.
Eventually she totally stopped complaining and just relaxed and enjoyed the
process and of being clean afterwards.   After the first few showers like
that I never had any more trouble getting her to shower.

I had nice warm fluffy towels ready when she got out.   I would then make
her sit down outside the shower stall.   I would help her to dry off, and
then blowdry and comb her hair for her.   I would apply some spray deodorant
under her arms for her.    Then we'd go into her room and I'd help her
dress.

I treated her like my own little baby.   Joking when I rumpled the towel
through her hair and laughing together.   Sometimes she would tell me that
she didn't need any help.  But I would just tell her to wash her arm or her
foot or to get more soap, or whatever to distract her.

Trust me, the REAL reasons they don't like to bathe are twofold.

One is they can't manage sequential actions anymore.   They don't know what
to do first or how to organize themselves.   It takes a lot to plan how to
shower, what to do first, what to do last, what to put on after.   You have
to do a lot of things, and they can't figure the sequences out anymore.  So
they are really procrastinating, because they can't figure it out anymore.

The other reason is that they feel secure, familiar and cuddled up in their
own dirty clothes.   Change scares them.   If you leave them to their own
devices they will put on the same dirty clothes they just took off.   I had
to tell hubby to KIDNAP the dirty clothes and put them in the hamper before
she got back to the room or there would be an argument about the dirty
clothes.

We found all the glitches and carefully worked them out as we went along.
Eventually it was a smooth and trouble free process.

The first shower was the most hilarious experience you can imagine.   Hubby
had to YELL at her to make her undress.   All I could hear was him yelling
at her in Estonian and her yelling back.....and the next thing I knew she
was trotting down the hallway with him herding her along.   He officiated at
that shower, but it was that or have her sleep in the shed, she smelled so
bad.   It was probably the quickest shower on record, but at least she was
wet down, soaped up, rinsed off, and it made her human again.

Be patient.   Be insistent, and be smart about the timing.   But you are
going to have to buckle down and help her, because she can't do it alone
anymore.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>> Hi D.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 81 lines]
>
> D.
Diane P. - 07 May 2008 09:57 GMT
Evelyn:

We had our first session a couple of days ago. I can't get her into the tub
daily. She never took showers, only tub baths.

I didn't realize at first that telling her to undress was something she
didn't understand anymore. She took her slacks off and was ready to into the
bathroom. I had to direct her to remove each piece of clothing at a time and
listen to her crab about "old ladies shouldn't have to do this."  Of course,
she requires assistance in and out of the tub.

My problem is that with the sundowning, I found her in her bed fully clothed
during the nighttime; and she's in her pajamas, 2 tops, one bottom and a
nightgown all at once during the day. I have gently tried to discourage the
wearing of all the clothes, but no luck. Yesterday she had to go to the lab
to be tested for her coumadin levels and she had on two blouses and two
sweaters. And, getting her to change outfits with a closet full of clothes
is a major undertaking.

It was only a couple of weeks ago that she stopped the personal hygiene
which was previously very good. The sundowning and no washing happened
almost synonomously. She was reminded to comb her hair and she says she
doesn't know how and the list of things she can't accomplish anymore gets
longer each day.

We see her doctor shortly and I would presume that she will need another
evaluation. I would guess she's somewhere between stage 2 & 3.

I'll say one thing, everyday in this house is a new adventure.

Thanks for your advice and sharing your methods. I am sure I can use some of
your tips.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 May 2008 12:25 GMT
> Evelyn:
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> D.

Diane,

It all sounds very familiar.

There is one tip that I almost forgot about.  It has to do with the
inappropriate dressing, etc.

My mother in law was always a pretty woman and a bit of a clothes horse and
she loved to try on clothes over and over.   I would do all the wash and
hang all the stuff in her closet and find she had them all pulled out in a
mess laying on the bed in a jumble.   It would drive me crazy.

Simplify.   One day when she is not looking, go through her entire wardrobe
and discard or put away anything that is inappropriate for the season, or
for her lifestyle anymore.   Keep only a few things in her closet, the kind
of things that are appropriate for the season and for what she does and
where she goes.   My mother in law would want to wear her best outfit every
day and her mink coat in the summer.    Too many choices will confuse her.

I ended up getting rid of almost her entire previous wardrobe.  So many
pieces were stained beyond redemption, or so out of style, or just
inappropriate for her life anymore (high heels, satin dresses).

I ended up buying her all new clothing, all new underwear, all new sweaters,
just everything.....which worked out well.   I bought nice looking matching
outfits that were easy to pair up and put on the same hanger.   I'd just
grab a hanger and it was a set for one day.

We found that quite early on somebody had to sit with her as she dressed.
She couldn't make decisions anymore what she needed to do next.   It was
like dressing a three year old.  You have to be there and be able to say
"not that way, it's backwards" or "now put on your shirt" or "here's your
socks"  or underwear or shoes, or whatever.

Back to the bathing....I cannot even begin to think how people manage with
only a tub.   Trust me when I say that the shower worked out best for us.
We have one bath with a shower and one bath with a tub.   We tried the tub,
but the shower worked out best.   It had a shower stool and the shower head
on a long hose, and enough room for someone to assist her.   They get
unsteady on their feet.  They tend to fall easily.  Getting in and out of a
tub can be very difficult.   That is why most of the nursing homes only use
showers.

Diane, have you considered using adult daycare by any chance?   It was a
lifesaver for us.   We put my mother in law in a local adult daycare center
and they picked her up by bus in the morning and dropped her off in the
afternoon.   We could sometimes rest, shop, sleep, or just enjoy the
respite.   They did all sorts of nice things, and I believe it preserved her
functioning somewhat.   That will be the subject of another posting, if you
like.

It sounds to me as though you are at the point where she is just now
beginning to need constant supervision with almost everything.... such as
bathing, dressing, etc.    You might need to resign yourself to that pretty
soon, you know.   Every person is different.   My mother in law never forgot
who we were, nor did she ever forget how to comb her hair, but she forgot
how to bathe and cook for herself as some of the very first symptoms.   Each
little loss needs to be dealt with.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 08 May 2008 09:30 GMT
> Diane,
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> but she forgot how to bathe and cook for herself as some of the very first
> symptoms.   Each little loss needs to be dealt with.

Evelyn:

I have tried a multitude of tactics to get the dressing issued fixed, but I
am the "other person" which is MIL's name for me and I do not go into her
room w/o being accompanied. She is paranoid about her possessions, moves
them around herself, loses them and then accuses. I have tried with kindness
and gentleness to get her squared away, but no dice. It works for a few
minutes and then the good time is over. I can help dress her and pick out
the proper outfit, then seconds later she will change the entire outfit
anyhow.

As for the bathing, her bathroom is across the hall from her room and is a
tub with a shower. A shower chair wouldn't help. All we can do is help her
into the tub. Today is bath day. I need to rest up for the session.....The
hair is another problem. It's very fine and she will not let me wash it with
any regularity. She insists on baby shampoo which is not good for your hair,
but won't sting the eyes. My hairdresser gave me some shampoo which is good
for fine hair, but not as kind to the eyes..what a mistake. MIL insists that
frequent washing makes the hair fall out. We all know if you don't wash the
hair frequently, when you finally do, multiple strands come out which
creates the illusion that you're losing a bunch of hair.

The adult daycare here is 250.00-300.00 a day at the place that has the
Alzheimer's pavilion.

I can no longer take her to shop for clothes, so I buy her things that she
holds up to her body and tells me they won't fit and won't try them on to
see if they will or won't. We spent over 100.00 on a pair of shoes, that she
picked out, tried on and now won't wear because the front of them are not
"pointy" enough.

We had a good couple of days w/o the sundowning because my husband watched
her like a hawk and told her at 1PM it wasn't bedtime, and she actually
complied. Now, it started up again and she "ain't" listening. Oh, well.

Have a great day and thanks for your concerns.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 08 May 2008 13:15 GMT
(snipped)

Hi Diane,

Just a couple of notes between the lines..... you know the drill :-)

> I have tried a multitude of tactics to get the dressing issued fixed, but
> I am the "other person" which is MIL's name for me and I do not go into
> her room w/o being accompanied. She is paranoid about her possessions,
> moves them around herself, loses them and then accuses.

They all do that.  My mother in law too.   We just ignored it, and hunted up
the stuff as she hid it.  She lost a hearing aid and she also lost her set
of teeth.   We went through all kinds of expense and inconvenience to
replace those!    When she got especially difficult my husband stepped in
and took over.   Blood is thicker than water.....

BTW, There ARE medications that help with paranoid behavior like that if it
makes her hard to care for.   My mother in law was on Zoloft and also
Risperdol.

I have tried with kindness
> and gentleness to get her squared away, but no dice. It works for a few
> minutes and then the good time is over. I can help dress her and pick out
> the proper outfit, then seconds later she will change the entire outfit
> anyhow.

I contemplated putting a lock on the closet door, believe it or not!   We
would get her all dressed for the day, and a few minutes later she'd be
rummaging in the closet pulling clothes out onto the bed.   We got around
that by directing her elsewhere, keeping her busy with other things.   The
daycare center was the best help of all, because the bus would come sometime
after breakfast.   I can sympathize.  It would drive me CRAZY sometimes.

> As for the bathing, her bathroom is across the hall from her room and is a
> tub with a shower. A shower chair wouldn't help.

They do have shower chairs designed for bathtubs.  Two of the legs are
outside the tub, and the seat slides in over the tub.   But you still need
the shower head on a hose.   My mother in law's bathroom was directly across
the hall from her bedroom too, but we took her to the other bathroom (mine)
with the shower when she needed bathing.

All we can do is help her
> into the tub. Today is bath day. I need to rest up for the session.....The
> hair is another problem. It's very fine and she will not let me wash it
> with any regularity.

My mother in law was the same way.   I would trick her.   As soon as we got
her in the shower on the chair I would put a handful of shampoo on her head
and then she HAD to commit to rinsing it out.   I had a shampoo bottle with
a pump on it, so all I needed to do was hit the pump to get a bit in my
hand.  I let her argue all she wanted.    I knew one way or another that
hair was going to get washed.

Some services can send a visiting nurse type of helper over just for baths,
and they charge of course.  Maybe you might do well getting someone else to
do that part?  You sound stressed and rightfully so!

She insists on baby shampoo which is not good for your hair,
> but won't sting the eyes. My hairdresser gave me some shampoo which is
> good for fine hair, but not as kind to the eyes..what a mistake. MIL
> insists that frequent washing makes the hair fall out. We all know if you
> don't wash the hair frequently, when you finally do, multiple strands come
> out which creates the illusion that you're losing a bunch of hair.

My mother in law was also weird about shampooing.  She believed that it was
bad for you to wash your hair often.   But whenever I got her in the shower,
I made sure that hair got washed.    It was usually only once or twice a
week.   I realize that people of her generation often are used to only
bathing once a week.   I was OK with the once a week, but I insisted on the
shampoo.

> The adult daycare here is 250.00-300.00 a day at the place that has the
> Alzheimer's pavilion.

Wow that is astronomical!   We live in upstate NY and there is a daycare
center that charged $40.00 a day and it included the bus transportation that
would pick her up and drop her off.   Perhaps your local alzheimers
association has some good alternative ideas for you?   Couldn't hurt to ask.

> I can no longer take her to shop for clothes, so I buy her things that she
> holds up to her body and tells me they won't fit and won't try them on to
> see if they will or won't. We spent over 100.00 on a pair of shoes, that
> she picked out, tried on and now won't wear because the front of them are
> not "pointy" enough.

I can sympathize.   We went through a lot of that too.   I don't think it is
any real comfort to say this, but the truth of the matter is that as the
illness progresses, she will probably get a little easier to work with.   I
bought my mother in law a very pretty, very comfortable embroidered jacket
and pants set which she refused to wear no matter what.   She just decided
she hated it.   She said it looked like pajamas, then she said it looked
like a "uniform".... it didn't look like either one, but OK, we just put
that in the back of the closet.

> We had a good couple of days w/o the sundowning because my husband watched
> her like a hawk and told her at 1PM it wasn't bedtime, and she actually
> complied. Now, it started up again and she "ain't" listening. Oh, well.

My husband did the tough guy stuff.   He speaks her native language and he
would read her the riot act when she got particularly belligerent.

If I were you I would do several things, and of course you can feel free to
ignore anything I say....

I would first of all get connected to the local alzheimers association and
the office for the aging in your area to see if there are any decent
affordable daycare centers there, and failing that, what local agencies had
to offer ..... some will send someone over to assist with at least some of
the difficult times, like baths.

Secondly I would talk to the doctor about the paranoia, the difficult
behavior etc.   There are medications that can help.   We told our doctor
that we wanted her to be as happy as a clam through this.   He helped with
the right medications at the right times.

Before you discount the idea of meds, consider how it must feel to a person
who is going through this paranoid stuff...... very anxious, depressed,
fearful, untrusting even of those who would and could help her.   My mother
in law did a lot of the same things.   Meds really helped.   Zoloft was
great and our doctor increased the dosage a couple of times over the 4 years
we cared for her.   As time went on she also needed Risperdol for the
delusions and paranoia.   It helped a lot.

She would get especially nasty and argumentative and paranoid in late
afternoons (sundowning).   My husband who of course dealt with her better,
as her son, went on duty then.   She would get nasty with me and on more
than one occasion I thought she was going to try and hit me.   I told the
doctor about the sundowning and the parnoia, and that was when he prescribed
the Risperdol.

Good Luck to you.   I do hope you get some help and peace.   I know how
difficult it is.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 07 May 2008 22:33 GMT
Hi Diane, below my signature I've pasted the most commonly used set of
"stages" - these have become the standard descriptions. I'd say she's
late Stage 5 or early Stage 6 by the behaviours you are describing.
She's also likely more impaired than you realize and on more fronts.

Mary G.

Adapted from Reisberg, B., Ferris, S.H., Leon, J.J. & Crook, T. The
global deterioration scale for the assessment of primary degenerative
dementia. American Journal of Psychiatry, 1982.

Level 1

No cognitive decline - (or Normal Adult). No subjective complaints of
memory deficit. No memory deficit evident on clinical interviews.

Level 2
Very mild cognitive decline (forgetfulness or normal older adult).
Subjective complaints of memory deficit, most frequently in the
following  area:
(a) forgetting where one has placed familiar objects;
(b) forgetting names on formerly knew well.
No objective evidence of memory deficit on clinical interview. No
objective deficits in employment or social situations. Appropriate
concern regarding symptoms.

Level 3
Mild cognitive decline (early confusional or Early AD). Earliest clear-
cut deficits. Manifestations in more than one of the following areas:
(a) patient may have gotten lost when traveling to an unfamiliar
location;
(b) co-workers become aware of patient's relatively low performance;
(c) word and name finding deficit becomes evident to intimates;
(d) patient may read a passage of a book and retain relatively little
material;
(e) patient may demonstrate decreased facility in remembering names
upon introduction to new people; (f) patient may have lost or
misplaced an object of value; (g) concentration deficit may be evident
on clinical testing.
Objective evidence of memory deficit obtained only with an intensive
interview. Denial begins to become manifest in patient. Mild to
moderate anxiety accompanies symptoms. Deficits noticed in demanding
employment situations.

Level 4
Moderate cognitive decline (Late Confusional or Mild AD). Clear-cut
deficit on careful clinical interview. Deficit manifest in following
areas:
(a) decreased knowledge of current and recent events;
(b) may exhibit some deficit in memory of one's personal history;
(c) concentration deficit elicited on serial subtractions;
(d) decreased ability to travel, handle finances, etc.
Frequently no deficit in the following areas:
(a) orientation to time and person;
(b) recognition of familiar persons and faces;
(c) ability to travel to familiar locations.
Inability to perform complex tasks. Denial is dominant defense
mechanism. Flattening of affect and withdrawal from challenging
situations occur.

Level 5
Moderately severe cognitive decline (Early Dementia or moderate AD).
Patient can no longer survive without some assistance. Patient is
unable during interview to recall a major relevant aspect of their
current lives, e.g., an address or telephone number of many years, the
names of close family members (such as grandchildren), the name of the
high school or college from which they graduated. Frequently some
disorientation to time (date, day of week, season, etc.) or to place.
An educated person may have difficulty counting back from 40 by 4s or
from 20 by 2s. Persons at this stage retain knowledge of many major
facts regarding themselves and others. They invariably know their own
names and generally know their spouse's and children's names. They
require no assistance with toileting and eating, but may have some
difficulty choosing the proper clothing to wear.

Level 6
Severe cognitive decline (Middle Dementia or Moderately Severe AD).
May occasionally forget the name of the spouse upon whom they are
entirely dependent for survival. Will be largely unaware of all recent
events and experiences in their lives. Retain some knowledge of their
past lives but this is very sketchy. Generally unaware of their
surroundings, the year, the season, etc. May have difficulty counting
from 10, both backward and sometimes forward. Will require some
assistance with activities of daily living, e.g., may become
incontinent, will require travel assistance but occasionally will
display ability to orient in familiar locations. Diurnal rhythm
frequently disturbed. Almost always recall their own name. Frequently
continue to be able to distinguish familiar from unfamiliar persons in
their environment. Personality and emotional changes occur. These are
quite variable and include
(a) delusional behavior, e.g., patients may accuse their spouse of
being an impostor, may talk to imaginary figures in the environment,
or to their own reflection in the mirror;
(b) obsessive symptoms, e.g., person may continually repeat simple
cleaning activities;
(c) anxiety symptoms, agitation, and even previously nonexistent
violent behavior may occur;
(d) cognitive abulla, i.e., loss of willpower because an individual
cannot carry a thought long enough to determine a purposeful course of
action.

             6a - Requires Assistance dressing
             6b - Requires Assistance bathing properly
             6c - Requires Assistance with mechanics of toileting
             6d - Urinary incontinence
             6e - Fecal incontinence

Level 7
Very severe cognitive decline (Late Dementia or Severe AD). All verbal
abilities are lost. Frequently there is no speech at all - only
grunting. Incontinent of urine, requires assistance toileting and
feeding. Lose basic psychomotor skills, e.g., ability to walk, sitting
and head control. The brain appears to no longer be able to tell the
body what to do. Generalized and cortical neurologic signs and
symptoms are frequently present.

      7a - Speech ability limited to about a half-dozen intelligible
words
      7b - Intelligible vocabulary limited to a single word
      7c - Ambulatory ability lost
      7d - Ability to sit up lost
      7e - Ability to smile lost
      7f - Ability to hold up head lost
weeks - 08 May 2008 01:01 GMT
Hi, Mary or anyone else,
My mother has Alzheimer's and we placed her into a nursing facility 4 weeks
ago tomorrow.  I'm curious as to what does fall into Level 1?
smiles,
Elise

> Hi Diane, below my signature I've pasted the most commonly used set of
> "stages" - these have become the standard descriptions. I'd say she's
[quoted text clipped - 119 lines]
>       7e - Ability to smile lost
>       7f - Ability to hold up head lost
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 08 May 2008 11:21 GMT
Elise wrote:
> Hi, Mary or anyone else,
> My mother has Alzheimer's and we placed her into a nursing facility 4 weeks
> ago tomorrow.  I'm curious as to what does fall into Level 1?

Mary responds:
Elise, I'm not sure what you mean? Level 1 AD is a normal adult. Do
you mean some sort of care level?

The majority of people with AD end up being too much for their
families to care for in a home environment once they get into level 6,
per Dr. Reisberg's scale (sometimes referred to as the FAST scale -
Functional Assessment Staging). Once a person needs someone to look
after them like they are a small child or baby (i.e. dressing,
bathing, toileting, feeding), its just relentless 24/7 and it involves
really heavy care, and worse, the person can't be left alone and
unsupervised at all, and is unlikely to know where they are or who is
looking after them.

Just as an aside, there was a death in Toronto last week of a lady
with AD in a private nursing home that did not specialize in dementia.
She was in later AD, and they had her in a wheelchair with some sort
of posy restraint to keep her in the chair. The lady had a history of
trying to get up alone and falling down, and also of trying to wiggle
out out of restraints. The not too bright staff left her in the
restraint in the wheelchair ALONE in her room, and the poor lady
managed to get partway out and got strangled on the straps. It would
have been a whole lot brighter to put her out in the hall where at
least the staff could keep an eye on her. It never ceases to amaze me
how many otherwise intelligent medical personnel are dense when it
comes to the realities of dementia.

M
weeks - 09 May 2008 00:26 GMT
Hi, Mary,
I think my confusion is that I thought there were 4 levels of Alzheimer's.
I'll have to review the list and see where my mom is with her AD.
I work as a receptionist in a nursing facility.  Most of the STNAs are young
girls with a child or two.  They are far from committed to their jobs - more
or less need a paycheck.  In my area every nursing facility is looking for
STNAs.  They are like a revolving door and with how underpaid they are I can
understand why.
smiles,
Elise

Elise wrote:
> Hi, Mary or anyone else,
> My mother has Alzheimer's and we placed her into a nursing facility 4
> weeks
> ago tomorrow. I'm curious as to what does fall into Level 1?

Mary responds:
Elise, I'm not sure what you mean? Level 1 AD is a normal adult. Do
you mean some sort of care level?

The majority of people with AD end up being too much for their
families to care for in a home environment once they get into level 6,
per Dr. Reisberg's scale (sometimes referred to as the FAST scale -
Functional Assessment Staging). Once a person needs someone to look
after them like they are a small child or baby (i.e. dressing,
bathing, toileting, feeding), its just relentless 24/7 and it involves
really heavy care, and worse, the person can't be left alone and
unsupervised at all, and is unlikely to know where they are or who is
looking after them.

Just as an aside, there was a death in Toronto last week of a lady
with AD in a private nursing home that did not specialize in dementia.
She was in later AD, and they had her in a wheelchair with some sort
of posy restraint to keep her in the chair. The lady had a history of
trying to get up alone and falling down, and also of trying to wiggle
out out of restraints. The not too bright staff left her in the
restraint in the wheelchair ALONE in her room, and the poor lady
managed to get partway out and got strangled on the straps. It would
have been a whole lot brighter to put her out in the hall where at
least the staff could keep an eye on her. It never ceases to amaze me
how many otherwise intelligent medical personnel are dense when it
comes to the realities of dementia.

M
Diane P. - 08 May 2008 09:03 GMT
> Hi Diane, below my signature I've pasted the most commonly used set of
> "stages" - these have become the standard descriptions. I'd say she's
> late Stage 5 or early Stage 6 by the behaviours you are describing.
> She's also likely more impaired than you realize and on more fronts.
>
> Mary G.

<<SNIP>>

Mary,

Thanks for the info you provided. I'd say your guess was right. The
guidelines I read referenced four stages only and were not as detailed as
these.

You are right; she is more impaired then I thought. She definitely could not
survive without assistance.

D.
Sue4stampin - 08 May 2008 17:07 GMT
> Evelyn:
>
> We had our first session a couple of days ago. I can't get her into the tub
> daily. She never took showers, only tub baths.

Diane,
My Mom is in one of the early stages, but was forgetting to bath
(actually she thinks she is doing it quite frequently, but we know
different). My sister-in-law started running her bathwater before she
gots dressed for the day and when Mother asked why she was doing that,
she would just say that she thought a nice bath would feel good and
relaxing. Mother didn't argue with that, so when I took over the
bathing, I told her the same and now she doesn't even question it. At
times she will say she just had a bath yesterday and that I don't need
to help her, I just say that I like doing that for her and she usually
just gets in the tub. We do have hand rails to help her get in and
out. So far that still works.
Sue
Evelyn Ruut - 08 May 2008 18:23 GMT
On May 7, 1:57 am, "Diane P." <DMPnos...@unknownisp.com> wrote:
> Evelyn:
>
> We had our first session a couple of days ago. I can't get her into the
> tub
> daily. She never took showers, only tub baths.

Diane,
My Mom is in one of the early stages, but was forgetting to bath
(actually she thinks she is doing it quite frequently, but we know
different). My sister-in-law started running her bathwater before she
gots dressed for the day and when Mother asked why she was doing that,
she would just say that she thought a nice bath would feel good and
relaxing. Mother didn't argue with that, so when I took over the
bathing, I told her the same and now she doesn't even question it. At
times she will say she just had a bath yesterday and that I don't need
to help her, I just say that I like doing that for her and she usually
just gets in the tub. We do have hand rails to help her get in and
out. So far that still works.
Sue

Hi Sue,

Exellent....... Now there is a perfect example of what we talk about around
here.    You handled it very skillfully, but then again, this is your mom.
It is different when it is your mother.   There is a lifetime of trust and
communication that has been there before alzheimers showed up.

I was a daughter in law, and it wasn't the greatest relationship in the
world to begin with.    I think if it was my mother we would have had a lot
less difficulty.   As time went on she learned to trust me, and we got along
better..... especially when it came to things like bathing.   But it took a
lot of work and drugs and time and patience and techniques and all of that.
When all else failed I called my husband to deal with her.   There it is
again.  Blood is thicker than water.

I can say this, it was the hardest thing I ever did in my life.   She had
delusions.  She was willful, difficult, and her memory was GONE.   She got
things all wrong all the time.   She was relentless, active, persistent,
irritating, and it was stressful beyond words.   I sometimes was so
depressed I could hardly function.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 09 May 2008 08:45 GMT
Well, new chapter..

Yesterday while I was at the store, MIL came out her room with her purses in
her hands(presumably to go somewhere) took a fall and now has an impacted
fracture of the upper rt humerus. Hosp would not admit her because it's not
impacted.

We called her primary who saw us in his office. The PA asked what was MIL
still doing with us at home. I almost kissed her..

My next tactic is to tell  my husband I am going to see my aunt and uncle
and to let me know when the fracture is healed in 6-8 weeks. In the
meantime, he will be the man in charge

I have nothing else to say other then what next?

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 09 May 2008 19:25 GMT
> Well, new chapter..
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> D.

Diane, fracture of the upper humerus is one of the most ghastly, painful,
debilitating fractures you can get.   I had one.  It was months of painful
physical therapy till I got back the use of my arm, and that's not counting
the long time to heal.   Old folks don't heal so quickly from these things.
Your husband really needs to consider placing her SOON.   She will need lots
of help with just about everything, depending on how bad that fracture is.
She really ought to be in a facility of some kind right now because her
caregiving needs just doubled, if I am not mistaken.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 09 May 2008 19:42 GMT
> Diane, fracture of the upper humerus is one of the most ghastly, painful,
> debilitating fractures you can get.   I had one.  It was months of painful
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> bad that fracture is. She really ought to be in a facility of some kind
> right now because her caregiving needs just doubled, if I am not mistaken.

Hi Evelyn:

I meant to say the impacted rt. humerus fracture is not dislocated so the
hosp wouldn't admit her.

The shoulder has been immobilized ; she says no pain, only on dressing or
moving it. Slept thru the night with a Vicodin; no pain meds requested
today, so she's hanging in there...probably better than I.

Have a nice weekend.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 09 May 2008 20:49 GMT
>> Diane, fracture of the upper humerus is one of the most ghastly, painful,
>> debilitating fractures you can get.   I had one.  It was months of
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> D.

Maybe hers wasn't as bad as mine was.   Mine was catastrophic.  I still have
major problems from it.

You too... (having a nice weekend)   I am going to see my new baby
granddaughter.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 10 May 2008 01:08 GMT
Evelyn, enjoy that baby!
Gwen

>> Diane, fracture of the upper humerus is one of the most ghastly, painful,
>> debilitating fractures you can get.   I had one.  It was months of
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> D.

Maybe hers wasn't as bad as mine was.   Mine was catastrophic.  I still have
major problems from it.

You too... (having a nice weekend)   I am going to see my new baby
granddaughter.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Evelyn Ruut - 10 May 2008 10:46 GMT
> Evelyn, enjoy that baby!
> Gwen

Thanks so much Gwen.....I certainly plan to!   My youngest son who got
married two years ago is her daddy, and he is so proud you can't imagine!
I have to think of something extra nice to bring his wife tomorrow.  This
will be her first mothers day and so it's special.

I have two lovely bouquets of flowers sent by my other two kids on the table
right now.   It's a nice warm feeling.

--
Best Regards,

Evelyn
Diane P. - 10 May 2008 08:54 GMT
> Maybe hers wasn't as bad as mine was.   Mine was catastrophic.  I still
> have major problems from it.
>
> You too... (having a nice weekend)   I am going to see my new baby
> granddaughter.

Hi Evelyn

MIL good yesterday until after dinner when she refused to keep the ice pack
on the shoulder; she had the "dementia" look in her eyes, facial expression
and demeanor. I can tell when we're going to have a session of non-lucidity.

Gave the hub a very hard time; she is not steady on her feet, won't use the
cane or the walker and just wouldn't stay put.

So, last night he conceded we are going to have to place her. I will start
the process and go to the two facilities in our area to see what's
available. I can only be thankful.

Enjoy your granddaughter.

D.
Evelyn Ruut - 10 May 2008 10:49 GMT
>> Maybe hers wasn't as bad as mine was.   Mine was catastrophic.  I still
>> have major problems from it.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> D.

Thanks so much Diane.   I plan to.

I am so glad to hear that he finally gave in!   You need a break, and she
will be better off with an entire staff of people looking after her.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 10 May 2008 15:57 GMT
Diane, its great news that your husband has agreed to placement. You
are going to feel like the weight of the world is off you. When you
are caregiving, the burden creeps up on you gradually as the person
declines, so you get used to more and more stress. Its so far from
what you thought you were getting into at the beginning, its like
another planet. Then when the person is placed, you need some time to
decompress - and then you will look back and marvel, and wonder how
you ever did it.

Think about how much of your time, and thought is absorbed by her. You
must be worrying constantly, whether she is with you or out of sight.
You deserve to have some sort of life, and the road from here for her
goes down hill, demanding more and more specialized care and
attention, and she will be less and less conscious of where she is, or
who is with her.  Your husband's job is to love and honor his mother,
and look out for her interests. Its to make sure she is well looked
after, treated with dignity, and given an opportunity for the best
possible quality of life.

Having been through this with the placement of my mother in law, I
honestly think at a certain point, they DO have a better quality of
life in a good facility. I say that because a facility can often cater
to their needs much more than is possible in a home environment. Even
the assisted living facility my mother in law went to before the
Alzheimer's unit had activities and resources a family could not
possibly offer at home - arts and crafts, exercise classes, music
concerts, special teas and parties, church services, a hair dresser,
banking, a tuck shop, outings, gardening, you name it. She was very
hard to handle in a home environment, and even harder to take out to
activities (you needed more than one person to wrangle her), but in
assisted living, they could sort of herd her along to all kinds of
stimulating activities and social events.

Even having a commercial kitchen that can cater to the dietary needs
of people with various health problems can be great. Specially
equipped bathing facilities, in house medical attention or medication
dispensing and supervision etc. etc. Probably the best part is having
a fresh set of caregivers every 8 hours !

Here's hoping you find something suitable in short order, so you can
go back to doing your real job - to enjoy her, and think of little
ways to bring some pleasure to her steadily shrinking world.

M
Evelyn Ruut - 10 May 2008 16:52 GMT
> Diane, its great news that your husband has agreed to placement. You
> are going to feel like the weight of the world is off you. When you
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> M

Amen to all the above!
We found it to be the same.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Diane P. - 11 May 2008 09:17 GMT
<<SNIP>>

> Here's hoping you find something suitable in short order, so you can
> go back to doing your real job - to enjoy her, and think of little
> ways to bring some pleasure to her steadily shrinking world.
>
> M

Mary: Thanks for your support.

I am going to visit some facilities this week and see what we can do about
placement.

My husband spoke to his aunt, MIL's sister, who has encouraged him to look
to placing his mother because of her advanced age and deteriorating mental
condition. And, she's 81 and sharp as a tack! She said after 5 years, enough
is enough. His first obligation is to me and put some peace and tranquility
in the rest of our life together. Nice to have someone in your corner.

I hope for all those who are faced with the same issues as we are, they read
the messages here. One gets some great insight and input from those who have
lived this experience first hand.

D.
weeks - 11 May 2008 14:32 GMT
Hi, Diana,
I've been reading your posts.  This is good news.  Your aunt is definitely
sharp as a tack!  Maybe your husband needed for his mother's family to give
"permission" to make this move.  But whatever at least he's going to take
some action now.
I wish your MIL the best...and you also.
smiles,
Elise

> <<SNIP>>
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> D.
Evelyn Ruut - 11 May 2008 16:14 GMT
> <<SNIP>>
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> D.

I am so glad to hear that your husband is finally OK with it.

Sometimes they just need to hear it from another source.

Have a great day today!
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

DJ - 06 May 2008 00:02 GMT
Dear god I know what you're talking about!!!! I've been caring for my dad,
stage 4 AD, for 3-years since Mom died. I feel angry, resentful, depressed,
etc. Don't do as I do, do as I say do.

Perhaps your husband is resistant to moving his mother to an assisted
facility. Talk it out with him. Maybe he needs help (psychological) to learn
how to move on. I know I do, but haven't taken my own advice.

Line up a care facility NOW. Regardless of when his mother might go to a
care facility it could take weeks or months for the facility to have an
opening. Get on their list so the wait won't be too long.

David
Diane P. - 06 May 2008 16:24 GMT
> Dear god I know what you're talking about!!!! I've been caring for my dad,
> stage 4 AD, for 3-years since Mom died. I feel angry, resentful,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> David

David: Hugs to you; there are certainly plenty of us around, all in the same
boat, aren't there?

It's amazing how the reversal in the child-parent roles affect our lives.
All will work out for the best for all of us. Some roads are bumpier and
longer for some more then for others.

My best wishes to you.

D.
r d - 15 May 2008 04:37 GMT
Get moving with the arrangements before there's an emergency.  My late
father didn't tell my brother or me that our mother had Alzheimer's.
The coroner in Denver notified me one day that my father had died, and
when my brother and I went there, we had to deal not only with his
death, but with mother's Alzheimer's.  It was quickly apparent even to
Alzheimer's "rookies" like us that she needed round the clock care by
professionals.  Adding to the nightmare was her conviction that he had
killed himself.

http://community.webtv.net/Dalesdomain/CatchMyFancy

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