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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / January 2008

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dealing with a Father who has Alzheimers

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Marilyn - 20 Jan 2008 02:39 GMT
In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old)  told my
husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
different ages.  They don't talk to him and aren't rowdy.  Well we
took him to his family doctor who had him admitted to the hospital for
some tests.  Psychiaric doctor put him on some medicine with my
permission to make the people he sees go away.  My father intially
refused the medicine because he doesn't feel that what he sees aren't
real.  He also has a problem with balance and walking with looking
like he may be slighty tipsy.  His family doctory and visiting nurse
have told him that he isn't suspose to do steps and that he should get
someone in to do laundry since the washer/dryer is in the basement.
He has said that he hasn't fallen yet where he hasn't been able to get
up and been ok or been able to call for help.  He has problems with
memory and doesn't remember when things are given to him or what he
does with things.  He won't do a power of attorney because he feels
that the person that has it will take advantage of it and no
explaining or reasoning will change his mind.  He doesn't even have a
will and has taken me 3 weeks to get him to write one down so that I
can type it up.  I am hoping that Monday he will allow us to go to
notary and h will sign so that it will be legal.  A social worker came
and wanted to put in an application for him to see what program and
services that would be available for him and he said no (but we are
doing it anyway) He refused to have meals brought it, and doesn't want
to go to assisted living place because he feels that he can live on
his own still.  I know that is where he belongs, but I don't know how
to or if it is possible to convince him that assisted living facility
is the best for him.  Does anyonw have any suggestions?  (I apologize
in advance for any mispelled words or forgotten words)
Bud - 20 Jan 2008 03:14 GMT
> ...Does anyonw have any suggestions?  

You can apply to become his legal guardian and so have control of those
things he can not manage and it will get worse. It's a slow and maybe a
difficult course of action but if he refuses to recognize his needs (and
that's a common denominator of Alozheimer's) that may be your only route.
Check with legal aid for help if you can. This is a familiar story to most
of us here and we wish you the best in your efforts. Just remember that you
are not dealing with the father you once knew but to a man whose personality
has been changed by this disease. Good Luck.

Bud
Marilyn - 20 Jan 2008 21:09 GMT
> > ...Does anyonw have any suggestions?  
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Bud
Thank you for your comments and advise.  I will look into the legal
guardianship, my husband and I have talked about it previously and the
social worker had suggested it also.  I'm glad that there is somewhere
that I can go to talk to others about it.
Bud - 20 Jan 2008 21:35 GMT
> Thank you for your comments and advise.  I will look into the legal
> guardianship, my husband and I have talked about it previously and the
> social worker had suggested it also.  I'm glad that there is somewhere
> that I can go to talk to others about it.

Free advise is usually worth every penny you spend. Ha. But this is a good
group with plenty of experience among us all. Hope you can find more help
as/if/when you need it.

Bud
bobfolan - 21 Jan 2008 03:49 GMT
I your father frightened of the people he sees? If not then what is
the problem? Giving the elderly  medicines can be extremely dangerous,
even if recommended by a doctor. Based on what you have written, I
side with your father. As people get older, they do things that the
outside world thinks are strange. I say, so what!
The next step after an assisted living is a nursing facilities.

Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please go to
www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you to download.
You can also find interesting and shocking information on youtube
about abusive guardianships and nursing homes.

> In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old)  told my
> husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> is the best for him.  Does anyonw have any suggestions?  (I apologize
> in advance for any mispelled words or forgotten words)
Dennis P. Harris - 21 Jan 2008 05:02 GMT
> Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please go to
> www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you to download.
> You can also find interesting and shocking information on youtube
> about abusive guardianships and nursing homes.

oh, go be a crank somewhere else.  she isn't being abusive, and i
can tell you from my experience with my mother that many demented
folks don't recognize their problems when they do need help.
people like you don't help at all.
bobfolan - 21 Jan 2008 05:28 GMT
On Jan 21, 12:02 am, NO_SPAM_TO_dphar...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) in
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> folks don't recognize their problems when they do need help.
> people like you don't help at all.

I never said she was being abusive, but her posting clearly indicates
to me that she is thinking of an assisted living arrangement for her
dad, and many times that leads to guardianship whether she makes that
decision or the assisted living place  does it on their own. People
need to know what dangers they may be putting their loved ones in when
they get involved with assisted living, nursing homes, social workers
and the like. Maybe you can educate yourself before you start making
nasty remarks. You wouldn't do that if you knew the dangers that our
elderly population faces. I know first hand and have tracked over a
hundred cases.
Evelyn Ruut - 21 Jan 2008 12:36 GMT
On Jan 21, 12:02 am, NO_SPAM_TO_dphar...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) in
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> folks don't recognize their problems when they do need help.
> people like you don't help at all.

I never said she was being abusive, but her posting clearly indicates
to me that she is thinking of an assisted living arrangement for her
dad, and many times that leads to guardianship whether she makes that
decision or the assisted living place  does it on their own. People
need to know what dangers they may be putting their loved ones in when
they get involved with assisted living, nursing homes, social workers
and the like. Maybe you can educate yourself before you start making
nasty remarks. You wouldn't do that if you knew the dangers that our
elderly population faces. I know first hand and have tracked over a
hundred cases.

*****************

You don't have a clue what you are talking about, but we all know for a fact
that Dennis does.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

sweetpickleNO@SPAMknology.net - 21 Jan 2008 15:25 GMT
both my parents were in nursing homes.  daddy visited mother at least 3
times a day.  after she died and he had to go to one, i visited him because
we had moved him where we were.  believe me, neither of them were abused.
he had slapped me and had kicked full coke bottles all over the garage
leaving a nice mess there.  he was a big man and i could not handle him.
gwen

On Jan 21, 12:02 am, NO_SPAM_TO_dphar...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) in
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> folks don't recognize their problems when they do need help.
> people like you don't help at all.

I never said she was being abusive, but her posting clearly indicates
to me that she is thinking of an assisted living arrangement for her
dad, and many times that leads to guardianship whether she makes that
decision or the assisted living place  does it on their own. People
need to know what dangers they may be putting their loved ones in when
they get involved with assisted living, nursing homes, social workers
and the like. Maybe you can educate yourself before you start making
nasty remarks. You wouldn't do that if you knew the dangers that our
elderly population faces. I know first hand and have tracked over a
hundred cases.
Dennis P. Harris - 23 Jan 2008 08:04 GMT
> People
> need to know what dangers they may be putting their loved ones in when
> they get involved with assisted living, nursing homes, social workers
> and the like. Maybe you can educate yourself before you start making
> nasty remarks. You wouldn't do that if you knew the dangers that our
> elderly population faces.

there were no "dangers" in dealing with the social workers and
assisted living folks that assisted us in helping our mother get
the care she needed.  

you are obviously suffering from some sort of paranoid delusions
about assisted living, and should seek professional help for your
problem.

off your meds, are you?
Evelyn Ruut - 23 Jan 2008 11:50 GMT
>> People
>> need to know what dangers they may be putting their loved ones in when
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> off your meds, are you?

Bob is obviously thinking from a place of great fear about the loss of
control and autonomy that sometimes comes at the end of life, or with
illness.   It is a valid fear, but he is blaming the wrong thing.

The place or the people that care for us if we can't care for ourselves
anymore, isn't to blame, it is the ILLNESS itself that is to blame.   It is
not always possible, wise or safe to leave a person with a brain illness at
home....... and certainly not on their own, as we all know.   Even with
terrific care and supervision it can be a problem.

I have seen this before and there is just no way to reason with that kind of
paranoia.

People like Bob see themselves, their agendas and autonomy as being always
right, no matter what happens, and that any thing that overrides or
overrules that, as being wrong.

Illness can turns all that kind of rationale upside down.   But I doubt Bob
will listen.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

EddyJean - 27 Jan 2008 06:22 GMT
Re: dealing with a Father who has Alzheimers  

Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Sun, Jan 20, 2008, 8:02pm (PST-1)
From: NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:49:02 -0800 (PST) in alt.support.alzheimers,
bobfolan <BobFolan@gmail.com> wrote:
Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please go to
www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you to download.
You can also find interesting and shocking information on youtube about
abusive guardianships and nursing homes.
oh, go be a crank somewhere else. she isn't being abusive, and i can
tell you from my experience with my mother that many demented folks
don't recognize their problems when they do need help. people like you
don't help at all.
========================================
Oh, just your help counts, Dennis? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thank you, Bob Folan, for alerting us to the dangers of guardianship and
conservatorship.
EddyJean
Evelyn Ruut - 21 Jan 2008 12:35 GMT
I your father frightened of the people he sees? If not then what is
the problem? Giving the elderly  medicines can be extremely dangerous,
even if recommended by a doctor. Based on what you have written, I
side with your father. As people get older, they do things that the
outside world thinks are strange. I say, so what!
The next step after an assisted living is a nursing facilities.

Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please go to
www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you to download.
You can also find interesting and shocking information on youtube
about abusive guardianships and nursing homes.

***********************

You are SOOOOO wrong!!!!!!

We human beings need care when we are young and 'soft in the head' and often
when we are old and 'soft in the head' too.

A little eccentricity is one thing, but when someone is in need of bathing,
food preparation for them, someone to take care of their bills, someone to
do the more difficult things, guardianship is a good thing.

You have not given Marilyn good advice.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

On Jan 19, 9:39 pm, Marilyn <craftsbymari...@msn.com> wrote:

> In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old) told my
> husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> is the best for him. Does anyonw have any suggestions? (I apologize
> in advance for any mispelled words or forgotten words)
EddyJean - 27 Jan 2008 07:40 GMT
You are SOOOOO wrong!!!!!!
We human beings need care when we are young and 'soft in the head' and
often when we are old and 'soft in the head' too.
A little eccentricity is one thing, but when someone is in need of
bathing, food preparation for them, someone to take care of their bills,
someone to do the more difficult things, guardianship is a good thing.
You have not given Marilyn good advice.
Signature

Best Regards,
Evelyn
In response to Bob Folan's post.
=========================================   It seems the "Groupie"
always side with each other favoring AL and nursing homes.  Anyone who
opposes it is trashed.  I will repeat the post that's been removed once
again. The nursing homes sleep in the same bed with the state. If it
weren't true, why remove my posts???
EddyJean

Alan Meyer - 23 Jan 2008 01:11 GMT
> I your father frightened of the people he sees? If not then
> what is the problem?

Hallucinations can take many forms, some frightening and some
not.  But they are never healthy.  Seeing things that aren't
there is a sure sign of serious problems and a significant danger
in many and unpredictable ways.

> Giving the elderly  medicines can be extremely dangerous, even
> if recommended by a doctor.

I agree. Psychoactive drugs can be dangerous to anyone, young or
old.  I also agree that not all doctors fully understand the
drugs they prescribe or do all of the tests before and after to
be sure that the right drug was prescribed at the right dose and
that it's having more positive than negative effects.

But sometimes not giving a drug is much more dangerous than
giving one.  This is a judgment call that has to be made by
doctors who understand the disease and caregivers who know the
patient well.

Caregivers like Marilyn and her Dad's doctor need to be aware of
the dangers both of giving drugs and of not giving them, and make
the best decision they can.  I suspect that they did that in this
case.

> Based on what you have written, I side with your father. As
> people get older, they do things that the outside world thinks
> are strange. I say, so what!  The next step after an assisted
> living is a nursing facilities.

Marilyn is siding with her father too.  She's trying to do what's
best for him.

The problem with doing nothing is that, if Marilyn's Dad has
Alzheimer's, then it is 100% guaranteed certain that he will get
worse and worse and worse.  An accident -WILL- happen.  It may
involve walking out of the house and not remembering the way
home, getting into a car and driving off, leaving something on
the stove and forgetting it's there, swallowing the wrong pills
or too many or too few, losing one's life savings to a scam
artist and becoming destitute, and on and on.  These things
happen to unprotected Alzheimer's patients day after day.

> Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please
> go to www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you
> to download.

Couldn't find it, are you sure you've got the URL right?

> You can also find interesting and shocking information on
> youtube about abusive guardianships and nursing homes.

It is indeed important to be sure that an assisted living or a
nursing facility is a good one.  Many are not and even among
those that are, they are still institutions offering what is, for
the most part, institutional care.

Among various members of my family, now all deceased, I've dealt
with five assisted living facilities.  All of them were pretty
good.  Still, if I had a choice between living at home and living
at any of the five, I'd prefer to live at home.  But,
unfortunately, we don't always have a choice.  There comes a time
in many of our lives when we need 24 hour care and can't live
successfully without it.

Bob,

I know you're trying to say and do the right thing.  But in this
case I think you've made a mistake.

Marilyn,

What you're facing is terribly difficult.  We've all been there
and we know how hard this is.

The only thing I can add to the excellent advice that others are
giving is that, some bad things will happen to your Dad.  You
won't be able to prevent all of them.  But by plugging away to
make small bits of steady progress on his health, his finances,
his living arrangements, and so on, you will be making a big
positive difference in his life.  You won't win every battle
against this terrible illness, but you're doing the right thing.

Best of luck to you.

   Alan
Marilyn - 24 Jan 2008 00:37 GMT
> > I your father frightened of the people he sees? If not then
> > what is the problem?
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>
>     Alan

That is what I am trying to do make small bits of progress.  There are
already some battles that I haven't won, but I just go on to the next
item and get that taken care of so that it can be checked off the
list.   I am trying to the right thing for him and I appreciate all
the excellent advice that I am getting from everyone here.

Thanks!
Marilyn
Alan Meyer - 27 Jan 2008 17:28 GMT
> ...
>> Before you consider a guardianship or conservator ship, please
>> go to www.halt.org and get the brochure that they have for you
>> to download.
>
> Couldn't find it, are you sure you've got the URL right?

The link is working now.  The website must have been down temporarily
when I first looked.

The article Bob refers to is a good one.  It lays out the powers
and responsibilities of a guardian, and the serious problems
that can occur if a person who is appointed guardian does not
have the ward's real interest at heart.  This can happen if a
stranger is appointed guardian by the court and, as we sometimes
see, if incompetent and selfish relatives are appointed.

The warnings in this article are really not about children who
love their parents and are truly and responsibly attempting to
care for them.

   Alan
august - 21 Jan 2008 08:30 GMT
> In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old)  told my
> husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> is the best for him.  Does anyonw have any suggestions?  (I apologize
> in advance for any mispelled words or forgotten words)

If you are wanting to be your father's care advocate then you need to get
powers of attorney, both medical and full. Your father obviously needs a
high level of care whether he realizes it or not. I'm sure he probably
thinks everything is just fine but obviously assisted living would be a much
better situation. I'd go for a medical power of attorney first. If push came
to shove you and you had to go to court, given what you have already said,
you could already easily obtain full power of attorney. If you do not get a
power of attorney from him willingly and get some help for him started then
your only other choice is to wait for the crippling event, car wreck,
accident or whatever that hurts him enough that he becomes so incapacitated
that he no longer gets a vote in his caregiving future.

You are in a tough part of the road of being a dementia caregiver becasue
the early stages are often the suspicious & paranoid stages. Contact the
social worker, this Dr and whomever else might be in a position to help and
ask them for advice on how to get started. I'm sure they already know he
desparately needs help and will appreciate your active participation.   good
luck.   AW
Evelyn Ruut - 21 Jan 2008 12:37 GMT
August has given you superb advice, Marilyn.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

>> In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old)  told my
>> husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> he desparately needs help and will appreciate your active participation.
> good luck.   AW
Marilyn - 22 Jan 2008 22:37 GMT
> > In the begining of December my Father (who is 77 yrs old)  told my
> > husband that there were people in the house at differnt times and
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thank you for your comments. Fortunely he hasn't been allowed to drive
since begining of December.  I'm getting medical power attorney since
the social worker and doctor have suggested it.  I'm trying to find a
good assisted living place that he would like and go to, so that he
would have the help to make sure that he takes his medicine, gets
bathed and eats his meals.  I know right now he doesn't always bath
(you can just tell).   You are right in your comment - He thinks
everything is fine and that he doesn't need any help.  He at first
refused a Visiting Nurse, but I went ahead and told them yes and has
no problem with her coming.  My husband and I go with him to his
doctors appointments so that we are aware of what is said and to make
that the doctor is aware of any changes or what has transpired since
the last appointment.
Dennis P. Harris - 23 Jan 2008 20:16 GMT
> I'm trying to find a
> good assisted living place that he would like and go to,

it's probably past time the time when you could either get his
consent or when it's worth wasting the time to attempt to do so,
since it would only confuse him further.  most of us have found
out the hard way that the best way is simply to make the decision
for him because he is not capable of doing so, and then take the
action necessary to get him where he needs to be.

it's hard to take charge, but you have to do it, since he really
can no longer make rational decisions.  just do it, then move him
while someone has him on some day long excursion somewhere.  in a
few weeks, he will get used to the new place and won't even
remember the old place.

asking him to make a choice will result in no choice.  people
with dementias are very, very afraid of any change.

find the right place, and move him.
Alan Meyer - 23 Jan 2008 02:08 GMT
I'd like to some more notes about assisted living.

Some AL facilities have different levels of care ranging from
complete independence in what is very much like an apartment
hotel to complete, locked door, Alzheimer's care.

Facilities like that have some nice advantages for early stage
Alzheimer's patients.  They can live in a more independent
section of the facility for as long as they are able, perhaps
making friends with people who function at a relatively high
level.  Then they can move to a section with a higher level of
care if and when they need it, without moving to completely new
and unfamiliar surroundings.

This can enable an early stage patient to enjoy a higher level of
functioning than he could in a strictly AD environment, and stay
there longer.  When he is introduced to the facility he will find
the people and the environment less disturbing than if he moved
to a facility where everyone has AD.  He is likely to find the
place much more acceptable.

These issues should be discussed with the intake person at the
facility.

I would also ask to meet the director of each facility you
investigate.  A good director doesn't guarantee an ideal
facility, but a bad director means there will be a lot of things
wrong.

There are more things I'd like to say about what to do once your
Dad has moved in, but they can wait.  You can only do so much at
once and have to take steps one at a time.

Best of luck.

   Alan
deerwoodflower@hotmail.com - 23 Jan 2008 02:50 GMT
> I'd like to some more notes about assisted living.
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>
>     Alan

I would like to add that i was always against moving my mom to a
nursing home.But never again would i keep anybody at home.My mom
choked to death.And it was the most difficullt thing to see.Her food
was pureed,but it still got lodged in her throat and she choked to
death right in front of me.I will never get that picture out of my
mind.Your not always doing them a favor by keeping them home.They did
say nothing could have saved her but i will always wonder.I have
learned so much just about life during this journey.We are never
prepared to take care of all issues.Never ,never feel bad about
placing your loved one.You might be doing them a favor,Barb
Dennis P. Harris - 23 Jan 2008 20:23 GMT
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:50:45 -0800 (PST) in
alt.support.alzheimers, "deerwoodflower@hotmail.com"

> My mom
> choked to death.And it was the most difficullt thing to see.Her food
> was pureed,but it still got lodged in her throat and she choked to
> death right in front of me.I will never get that picture out of my
> mind.Your not always doing them a favor by keeping them home.They did
> say nothing could have saved her but i will always wonder.

It's time to stop blaming yourself!  If you're still doing that,
you really should be getting some counseling about it.

The problem wasn't you, it was the fact that her brain could no
longer control her swallowing reflex.  Aspiration of food is the
most common cause of death in AD patients, whether it's
asphyxiation, as in your mother's case, or whether it's pneumonia
caused by aspiration of liquids into the lungs.

Guilt is not allowed here...  you did what you could, and what
you thought was right for her at the time.  You did your best,
and you should be very proud of that.

Please, for your own peace, talk to your pastor or a hospice
grief counselor about this.  If you have no money, hospice
counseling services are free.  You don't need to carry this
burden around forever.
deerwoodflower@hotmail.com - 23 Jan 2008 23:28 GMT
On Jan 23, 2:23 pm, NO_SPAM_TO_dphar...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:50:45 -0800 (PST) in
> alt.support.alzheimers, "deerwoodflo...@hotmail.com"
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> counseling services are free.  You don't need to carry this
> burden around forever.

Dennis,
It all takes time.I know every word you and the others have said are
true.It's just applying them to yourself that seems impossible.Thank
you,Barb
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 25 Jan 2008 15:16 GMT
Marilyn, I'm wondering if he actually has Lewy Body dementia, since
visual hallucinations are one of its hallmarks, along with the balance
and gait problems you mention he has. I would urge you to talk to the
neuologist to determine if they have considered this, since Lewy Body
has some different features than AD, although they both end up in the
same place. Knowing for sure what the cause of his dementia is can
help you be prepared for odd behaviours and give you a better feel for
what to expect.

My advice is to take advantage of his confusion/memory issues where
you can - which sounds terrible, but he'll never say yes. If you wait
for him to agree he's impaired and needs help, you will be frozen - he
can't see his own problems, even if they are readily apparent to you
and everyone else. Not only can he not see his own deficits, his
ability to reason is going down hill, so even if he did realize he was
in trouble, he wouldn't be able to think up a solution, much less
figure out how to implement it. He's also terrified of change, since
his grip on what is going on is so tenuous, and he can't learn new
things very easily.

Arrange whatever you need to arrange without his permission, and take
things from there. The priority has to be keeping him healthy and
safe.  I'd start with meal delivery. Try to be there the first few
times they are delivered - you may be able to convince him that he
agreed to give it a try. I'm thinking he might not say no when a hot,
tasty, premade meal is right in front of his face i.e. might as well
eat it as let it go to waste. And in a couple of days, he might think
it was his idea in the first place. My mother in law protested the
meal thing as well, but it didn't take long for her to start to
actually like it. Preparing nutritious and appealing food for one can
be a chore even for someone who is NOT mentally impaired, and what's
not to like about a nice tray just showing up, poof!! No effort
required, and no kitchen clean up either (they take the tray back next
day when they bring the next one).

In the early stages, we had a housekeeper come in half days
(mornings), five days a week. This person did her basic housework,
laundry, and made sure there were some groceries on hand (plus keeping
an eye on everything, which was probably her most important job). The
housekeeper made sure my mother in law ate breakfast, and made her a
lunch (i.e. some sandwiches on a plate in the fridge). Then Meals on
Wheels brought her a good dinner, so we knew she was getting three
reasonable meals a day.

We sold my mother in law on the housekeeper by telling her it was a
favour for us. We went on about how we were worried about her on her
knees trying to clean, and how it would make us feel so much better
knowing she didn't have to worry about all that stuff etc. etc. And
golly, we knew she was perfectly fine, but if she'd give it a little
try it would be a real gift to us, and weren't we silly, blah, blah,
blah, as we lied through our teeth, soothed, cajolled, patted and
fluffed!!!

When she got to the point we had to move her into a facility (when
being alone even for part of the day was just not an option anymore),
we again took advantage of her confusion and her inability to initiate
rational action. We just arranged it - we did tell her, but she
constantly forgot she'd been told, so eventually we stashed her at her
sister's place for a night for a nice visit, and we all ran around
like nuts to move the necessary items and set up her room at the
assisted living facility. We then retrieved her from her sister's, and
took her to the new place. At that point, she couldn't really have
organized an escape - i.e. thinking through where she was, how to get
home, packing, etc. would have been beyond her.

If you really questioned her about going home, she'd start talking
about her girlhood home, so it wasn't the apartment she'd been in -
her brain had deleted most of her adult life in terms of specific
ideas about place.

Mary G.
Marilyn - 26 Jan 2008 03:01 GMT
On Jan 25, 10:16 am, Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote:
> Marilyn, I'm wondering if he actually has Lewy Body dementia, since
> visual hallucinations are one of its hallmarks, along with the balance
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>
> Mary G.
My husband and I have already taken advantage of his confusion, by
having a visiting nurse and physical therapist come out  to the house
when he got out of the hospital.  He told the social worker at the
hospital no - but I called and said OH YES he does!  When I told him
he had even forgotten that he said No.  Although they aren't coming
anymore since he won't do what they say as far as not going up and
down steps.  We have even pleaded him so that we wouldn't worry so
much about him, but no avail.

We are doing the same with the meals also.  I agree with you I think
once he starts getting them he will enjoy and think it was a good idea
that he had and will enjoy and look forward to them coming.

We have been looking to find a good facility that he will be able to
go when the time comes.  We may just do what you had done with your
mother in law, in fact my husband and I have kind of joked about doing
that.  I truly believe that he would probably be ok with the
adjustment.

Thank you for sharing and I enjoyed reading and glad to hear that
someone else feels that is not being cruel in taking advantage of
their confusion, because you are right they don't remember what they
do or say.  Dad had aprescription, (I knew I should have held on to
it, but didn't) and the next day when we went to take to take him to
get it filled - poof it was gone.  So now we hold on to any
prescriptions and make his appointments - even though he is annoyed
for the moment.
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 26 Jan 2008 19:40 GMT
Marily wrote:
> Thank you for sharing and I enjoyed reading and glad to hear that
> someone else feels that is not being cruel in taking advantage of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> prescriptions and make his appointments - even though he is annoyed
> for the moment.
Mary responds:
I'll bet you money if you quiz him closely, he has lost his
understanding of sequences. Its a common development. It's not just
numbers - its anything that goes in a particular order, like days of
the week, months of the year, hours of the day. When it first dawned
on me that this might be going on, she was calling us constantly
because she couldn't find the shows she wanted to watch on TV. She
didn't know that Tuesday was after Monday or before Wednesday, or that
the 17th was two days before the 19th, or that Channel 2 was one click
ahead of Channel 3 on the TV dial. She couldn't understand a calendar,
tell time, or handle money because of it. No wonder she missed
appointments - since she also had no "feel" for time, and couldn't
figure out that if she had to be somewhere at 2, she had to start
getting ready at 1, call the cab at 1:15 and be out the door at 1:30.

You aren't being cruel at all. Being cruel would be to allow him to
put himself in danger, neglect his health and hygene, eat spoiling
food, take too many pills etc. If a 5 year old protested they were
perfectly able to look after themselves without help or interference,
you wouldn't feel one seconds hesitation in intervening for their
health and safety. Sadly, this is no different. He thinks he's fine,
he's not, so you do what you have to do.

Prior to the move to her first assisted living place, we did try to
engage her in going through her wardrobe etc. Even though we weren't
asking her permission about the move, we were trying to be respectful
of her autonomy, and let her make some decisions for herself about
what things she loved best, or that were most comfortable or useful.
It was a lost cause. She wasn't able to make rational choices, she
couldn't stay focused etc. etc. The saddest part is even a few hours
later, she didn't remember anything about the discussion, so we had to
accept we had to make all the decisions for her.  Its a rough one when
its someone you have always loved and respected, and who has been an
authority figure in your life.

M
Dennis P. Harris - 27 Jan 2008 04:23 GMT
> Dad had aprescription, (I knew I should have held on to
> it, but didn't) and the next day when we went to take to take him to
> get it filled - poof it was gone.  So now we hold on to any
> prescriptions and make his appointments - even though he is annoyed
> for the moment.

better yet, ask docs if they can fax the prescription to the
pharmacy (where i live docs can phone them in, and my mom's docs
did that for me, so i only had to go pick them up, since her
insurance was billed automatically).
 
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