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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2007

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Aricept

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don - 08 Apr 2007 03:29 GMT
Anyone have any experience dealing with someone taking Aricept?  I've
checked dozens of sites and can't find anything similar to what's
happening to my mother since she's been taking it (about 3.5 weeks
now).  Although she seems more alert and energetic, it's done nothing to
improve her short-term memory or her ability to deal with things that
are happening right now.

What taking it seems to be doing to her is making her remember things
that happened long ago and believing them to have taken place just
recently.  She told me that someone who's been dead for 30 years just
died the other day.  She's also been having what seem like distorted
memories of the past that sound more like dreams than actual events.
Has anyone had experience this or read about these type of reactions to
the drug?
J J - 08 Apr 2007 04:10 GMT
my mother has been on it for about 2 years now. as I have said in one of
the post her doc said it would not make her any better but will keep her
from getting worse. or at least slow it down. I have noticed mom still
about the same to me but then again I see her every day. she always
talks about her mother and brother and both are deceased but other times
she is lucite enough to know they are gone.----I feel it has made me and
her cope better with her taking it. JMO
JJ
Easter Stephens - 10 Apr 2007 16:47 GMT
I've been on aricept for a few years....had been on exalon before that
It didn't help....not sure that the aricept is doing much but I still
have my mind....I have had Alzhiemers for 6 years...I think mywebtv is
helping me also....
Strobe - 08 Apr 2007 06:20 GMT
>Anyone have any experience dealing with someone taking Aricept?  I've
>checked dozens of sites and can't find anything similar to what's
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Has anyone had experience this or read about these type of reactions to
>the drug?

My wife never took Aricept - but she had exactly these symptoms.

I think it's an inherent part of the disease.
Recent memories fade first, the oldest memories hang around longest.  
But as those older memories themselves get damaged, the patient invents
or changes details in trying to get them to 'make sense'.

Enjoy the fact that - however imperfectly - she *can* still remember.
don - 08 Apr 2007 07:27 GMT
> My wife never took Aricept - but she had exactly these symptoms.
>
> I think it's an inherent part of the disease.
> Recent memories fade first, the oldest memories hang around longest.
> But as those older memories themselves get damaged, the patient invents
> or changes details in trying to get them to 'make sense'.

I realize what you're saying is true, but my mother didn't have this
confusion about old memories before she started taking Aricept.  She
only had problems with her short-term memory.  I'm trying to figure out
if the drug is causing her delusions or if it's just a coincidence that
her memory is getting worse now.

> Enjoy the fact that - however imperfectly - she *can* still remember.
Tumbleweed - 08 Apr 2007 07:53 GMT
> I realize what you're saying is true, but my mother didn't have this
> confusion about old memories before she started taking Aricept.  She
> only had problems with her short-term memory.  I'm trying to figure out
> if the drug is causing her delusions or if it's just a coincidence that
> her memory is getting worse now.

Aricept doesnt work for everyone, so chances are its not working for her,
and its the the natural progression of the condition. As its not helping her
short term memory you can always stop it and see what happens.

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Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
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don - 08 Apr 2007 15:48 GMT
> Aricept doesnt work for everyone, so chances are its not working for her,
> and its the the natural progression of the condition. As its not helping her
> short term memory you can always stop it and see what happens.

We're only on a one month trial at this point.  I'm sure if there's no
improvement, the doctor won't say to keep her on it.  If I say something
isn't working for her, he never insists we keep trying it.  I wish more
doctors were like that.
Evelyn Ruut - 08 Apr 2007 18:21 GMT
>> Aricept doesnt work for everyone, so chances are its not working for her,
>> and its the the natural progression of the condition. As its not helping
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> isn't working for her, he never insists we keep trying it.  I wish more
> doctors were like that.

We thought it wasn't working too.   Until we stopped it.   The sudden
worsening was so dramatic, that we couldn't wait to get her started back on
it again.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Strobe - 08 Apr 2007 22:27 GMT
>> My wife never took Aricept - but she had exactly these symptoms.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>> Enjoy the fact that - however imperfectly - she *can* still remember.

As ever, the only way to tell for sure is to change the meds.
Be aware that results may take a while to show, as some meds stick around in the
body for a bit.

I hope the delusions *are from the Aricept - but remember, it *is an expected
condition.
Brick - 14 Jul 2007 05:37 GMT
> >> My wife never took Aricept - but she had exactly these symptoms.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> expected
> condition.

Excelon made a remarkable difference for my wife Nathalie. It was
remarkable to me as she went from nothing to something that made
a difference. No, her memory hasn't improved. She still can't put the
dishes where they belong. As near as I can tell, she simply puts them
wherever she finds room and that might be under the sink. She is
calmer, seems to be less anxious and apparently happier then she
was. She also takes Namenda and Risperidone. Her doctor has more
confidence in Excelon then Aricept. Her day to day abilities vary.
Sometimes she has to ask where to go to bed or where the bathroom
is. Before medication, she was declining right before my eyes. Now
the rate is barely perceptable.

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Brick(Enforce the law first; change it later if necessary)

Easter Stephens - 10 Apr 2007 16:50 GMT
I think that is the alzhiemers....I can remember my Past back when i was
a tiny kid but can't remember 5 minutes ago....
Evelyn Ruut - 08 Apr 2007 11:37 GMT
> Anyone have any experience dealing with someone taking Aricept?  I've
> checked dozens of sites and can't find anything similar to what's
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Has anyone had experience this or read about these type of reactions to
> the drug?

Don, that's not from the Aricept.  That is normal for the illness.  My
mother in law remembered all sorts of things from many years ago, even
thinking some of them were recent happenings.

The Aricept replaces a chemical that is missing in the brain with the
illness.   It isn't perfect, but it helps a bit.   We stopped it at one
point and tried a different drug (or rather our doctor did) and after three
days she was so mixed up we begged him to please give her the Aricept back.

You might not think it is doing anything, but in my MIL's case, it really
was helping a lot and we only found it out when we tried to change it.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

June - 08 Apr 2007 13:21 GMT
> Has anyone had experience this or read about these type of reactions to
> the drug?

My mother took Aricept for years.   From the time it first came on the
market to just a few years ago.   In hind sight it was a waste of money for
her.   Because of the slow progression of her dementia, we thought at first
it was working.  Now because of the length of time (14 years) she has
suffered from this disease I believe she has Vascular Dementia.   I would
advise taking it on a full stomach because it really made Mom sick if she
didn't.....June
don - 08 Apr 2007 16:14 GMT
> My mother took Aricept for years.   From the time it first came on the
> market to just a few years ago.   In hind sight it was a waste of money for
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> advise taking it on a full stomach because it really made Mom sick if she
> didn't.....June

Fortunately, the new prescription insurance covers the bulk of the cost
for this medication.  It would be $157.00 a month without insurance, but
her cost is just $30.00. Even so, multiply that by up to 10 different
medications a month, and it adds up quickly.

In her case, dementia has either come upon her all of a sudden, or she
did a heck of good job of hiding it for years.  She's fully aware that
her memory is failing her and even comments on it from time to time.  I
think she's developed a manner of acting like she understands what's
going on even when she doesn't.  Scans have shown that she's suffered a
series of small strokes which seem to be the main source of her
problems.
June - 08 Apr 2007 23:25 GMT
> Fortunately, the new prescription insurance covers the bulk of the cost
> for this medication.  It would be $157.00 a month without insurance, but
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> series of small strokes which seem to be the main source of her
> problems.

My mother is still living in independent assisted living.   She still can
use the phone and even carry a little bit of light conversation especially
about the past.  When I visit Mom I do get introduced to her next door
neighbor at least once a week.   The first few weeks after the lady moved in
Mom couldn't remember her name but now she does.  She does have some short
term memory but not much.  Mom's been around the same plateau for years.
She even got better for a couple of weeks but she's back to the same level
now maybe a tad worse.   It's so slow that it's hard to say.   Today at my
daughter's house for Easter, Mom was looking through old family pictures and
she pretty much knew everybody.
I don't know if Aricept is supposed to help with Vascular Dementia or not.
I do know it didn't really help Mom.   I signed Mom up for the prescription
drug plan but she doesn't have any prescriptions anymore.   But you never
know when she might.  Within a few months of Mom's diagnosis of dementia in
1993, it was obvious that she had a problem with short term
memory..........June
Dennis P. Harris - 09 Apr 2007 06:03 GMT
> In her case, dementia has either come upon her all of a sudden, or she
> did a heck of good job of hiding it for years.  She's fully aware that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> series of small strokes which seem to be the main source of her
> problems.

if she has a vascular dementia, aricept may not be as much help.
aricept and the other AD drugs are designed to replace neuro
chemicals that are out of whack.  vascular dementias where there
is sudden change indicate likely strokes or TIAs.
J J - 09 Apr 2007 15:18 GMT
vascular dementias where there is sudden change indicate likely
strokes or TIAs.

Don I do not mean to sound ignorant about vascular dementia but are you
saying that TIAs can cause them to have a big change in their behavior?
as I have noticed with mom and have been saying now for several years
that I feel mom has had mini strokes as she I can tell she is gets
really out of it for a few days and seems very tired and even her eyes
look like they are staring into space. she seems to get this way every
so often. could it be that is what mom has? she had a cat scan done and
they found spots in her brain. Took her to a neurologist but he was of
no help,
just said yes she has Dementia and it will get worse. sheesh !!! I know
that -----but he really did not explain anything to me.
gave here the typical test of what day is ? whose is the president ect
which she did not know so he said that she was not getting enough blood
to the brain and as the spots get bigger she will get worse.
wasn't really much help to me.
JJ
Evelyn Ruut - 09 Apr 2007 16:00 GMT
JJ I am amazed.   Your doctor wasn't much help to you at all.  

It is usually a diagnosis made after several tests, including a CAT scan or a PET scan, which will often show physical changes in the brain itself.   A psychiatrist usually does a cognitive test, a thyroid test is usually included too, since low thyroid can also manifest as memory problems.  

Have you ever heard of the book "The 36 Hour Day"  ?   You should get a copy.  It explains so much and is very helpful.   It is widely available, so it won't be hard to find.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

 vascular dementias where there is sudden change indicate likely
 strokes or TIAs.

 Don I do not mean to sound ignorant about vascular dementia but are you
 saying that TIAs can cause them to have a big change in their behavior?
 as I have noticed with mom and have been saying now for several years
 that I feel mom has had mini strokes as she I can tell she is gets
 really out of it for a few days and seems very tired and even her eyes
 look like they are staring into space. she seems to get this way every
 so often. could it be that is what mom has? she had a cat scan done and
 they found spots in her brain. Took her to a neurologist but he was of
 no help,
  just said yes she has Dementia and it will get worse. sheesh !!! I know
 that -----but he really did not explain anything to me.
 gave here the typical test of what day is ? whose is the president ect
 which she did not know so he said that she was not getting enough blood
 to the brain and as the spots get bigger she will get worse.
 wasn't really much help to me.
 JJ

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
June - 09 Apr 2007 16:23 GMT
strokes or TIAs.

Don I do not mean to sound ignorant about vascular dementia but are you
saying that TIAs can cause them to have a big change in their behavior?
as I have noticed with mom and have been saying now for several years
that I feel mom has had mini strokes as she I can tell she is gets
really out of it for a few days and seems very tired and even her eyes
look like they are staring into space. she seems to get this way every
so often. could it be that is what mom has? she had a cat scan done and
they found spots in her brain. Took her to a neurologist but he was of
no help,
just said yes she has Dementia and it will get worse. sheesh !!! I know
that -----but he really did not explain anything to me.
gave here the typical test of what day is ? whose is the president ect
which she did not know so he said that she was not getting enough blood
to the brain and as the spots get bigger she will get worse.
wasn't really much help to me.
JJ


Hi JJ.....My MIL was 100 years old when she decided to go to a nursing home.   Her children ( all in their 70's and 80's) were not able to take care of her after a fall and she understood that.   Within hours of the fall she become incontinent and couldn't walk.  I figure she had a stroke.  She did not at the time have any signs of dementia.   When she got to the NH she began to fail.   They only offered to make her comfortable.  Doctors aren't really interested in helping someone her age to get better.   The fact that she gave up after the first week didn't help.  She knew nobody lives forever.  You said that your mother is 92.   With this disease you need to be proactive if you want straight answers.  In the doctors defense, perhaps he didn't want to give any false hopes.  I think I've learned more in this newsgroup about dementias than I've learned from doctors.   It's a rotten disease with no cure only bandaids and drugs to prolong it or make it bearable for the caregivers and the people suffering from it.   You must take care of yourself first.   You're a caring human being and I'm sure your mother has had a lot to do with that.   When I make decisions for my mother, I always put myself in her shoes so to speak.   If it were me, what would I want my daughter to do?   I find that really helps.  

I'm sure that TIAs are the cause of my mother's dementia. No doctor has told me that but after a lot of research on my own and conversations here, I've come to that conclusion......June
Dennis P. Harris - 11 Apr 2007 06:29 GMT
> Hi JJ.....My MIL was 100 years old when she decided to go to a nursing home.   Her children ( all in their 70's and 80's) were not able to take care of her after a fall and she understood that.   Within hours of the fall she become incontinent and couldn't walk.  I figure she had a stroke.  She did not at the time have any signs of dementia.   When she got to the NH she began to fail.   They only offered to make her comfortable.  Doctors aren't really interested in helping someone her age to get better.   The fact that she gave up after the first week didn't help.  

Most folks I've talked to who are close to 100 have told me that
they're ready to go any time, but that doesn't mean that they
have "given up".  At that age, they are simply tired of the pain,
or just plain tired.  Why would you want someone that old to keep
on living if the only life they have to look forward to is one of
pain and suffering?  Isn't 100 years long enough?

As far as the docs only wanting to make her comfortable, they
were being realistic about how slow healing is in someone that
old, and how much of a strain a trauma like that puts on a body
that old.
June - 11 Apr 2007 15:25 GMT
>> Hi JJ.....My MIL was 100 years old when she decided to go to a nursing
>> home.   Her children ( all in their 70's and 80's) were not able to take
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> old, and how much of a strain a trauma like that puts on a body
> that old.

I totally agree and so did her family.   She was still bowling on a senior
league a week before she went into the NH.  At first she hoped she would get
better but began to realize that she wasn't going to.   At that point she
pretty much quit eating.  If I could live the life that she did, 100 years
wouldn't be so bad but that doesn't happen very often.  The Minister at her
funeral was amazed by the number of people that came.   Usually by the time
someone reaches this age they've lost touch with their extended family but
she never did.  She had over 65 living descendants and could remember just
about all their names.
I was trying to tactfully suggest that sometimes all the details to the test
results don't matter--it's just time to let them go......
Dennis P. Harris - 12 Apr 2007 03:17 GMT
> At that point she
> pretty much quit eating.  If I could live the life that she did, 100 years
> wouldn't be so bad but that doesn't happen very often.  

my mom quit eating when she had move out of her house and into a
facility, then once all of her children were present, told us to
call hospice and take her home, which we did.  she had been quite
explicit well in advance about what she wanted, to die at home
without tubes and machines.  she was 79, but had high blood
pressure, edema, advanced emphysema & congestive heart failure
and was on oxygen.

my neighbor across the street decided he was ready after his wife
died, and ate less and less and got weaker and weaker.  they were
both in their mid-90s.
don - 09 Apr 2007 17:40 GMT
>  vascular dementias where there is sudden change indicate likely
> strokes or TIAs.
>
> Don I do not mean to sound ignorant about vascular dementia but are
> you saying that TIAs can cause them to have a big change in their
> behavior?

I didn't make that statement and know next to nothing about the
subject.  Be careful who you're attributing quotes to.
J J - 10 Apr 2007 03:00 GMT
I didn't make that statement and know next to nothing about the subject.
Be careful who you're attributing quotes to.  

oops sorry about that Don ---sometimes I get carried away and didn't
realize it wasn't you who said that
JJ
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 10 Apr 2007 17:44 GMT
JJ

The old thinking used to be that TIAs were harmless. However, they now
know they are NOT harmless. Every time a person has one, it means
there has been a temporary blockage to the brain, either from blood
clot or other (like bits of plaque). Every time that happens, even if
the person has very little in the way of symptoms, it is causing the
death of brain cells in the area where the circulation is blocked.

Its incideous - endless tiny strokes, chipping away at the brain,
accumulating more and more irreversible brain damage. If the
neurologist gave your mother a scan and saw SPOTS, rather than overall
shrinkage, its extremely likely that she has multi-infarct dementia.
This may be on top of having Alzheimer's, OR it could be INSTEAD of
the Alzheimers (you can have one or the other, or both at the same
time).

Her doctor should have taken more care in explaining things to you.
People with multi-infarct do tend to progress in a more jerky step
like fashion, than the slow steady decline you get with some other
causes of dementia. They all end up in the same place though.

Mary
Dennis P. Harris - 11 Apr 2007 06:23 GMT
> Don I do not mean to sound ignorant about vascular dementia but are you
> saying that TIAs can cause them to have a big change in their behavior?

absolutely.  anything that affects blood flow to the brain,
especially when there are previous blockages and damage, can
cause enough damage that behavior can change radically if
critical neurons are destroyed.
J J - 11 Apr 2007 15:46 GMT
Thank you!!!!
JJ
maryleehardt@comcast.net - 13 Apr 2007 23:54 GMT
I am taking Aricept in combination with Namenda (generic is memantine
MCI), and it has helped me tremendously.  I was diagnosed with VERY
early Alzheimer's in September 2003 at age 58, and at this point
(thank God!) people can't believe I have Alzheimer's.  Of course, they
don't see the "other symptoms" ... just the memory and ability to
think, which is 98% OK most of the time -- and I must say that's
kinda' the norm for people without Alzies at this age, from what I've
seen!  So, perhaps you should ask her doc about adding Namenda to her
meds.  It's certainly worth a try.

I would like to add that what your mother is experiencing is typical
of Alzheimer's.  Hopefully adding the Namenda will help.  Also, there
are other meds similar to Aricept, although I think Aricept has been
"deemed" to be the best.  Talk her her doc!

By the way, be sure to check the Alzheimer's Association website
(www.alz.org) for lots of tips, including those for caregivers, since
YOU will need support as well as your mom, while she goes through this
horrible disease and its ending stages.  There's also a great message
board you should look into.

Also while you're on that website, key in your zip code to see if
there's a chapter near you.  Even if it's not geographically close to
you, go into whichever chapter is "assigned" to your zip code.  It's
possible they have a caregivers' support group near you that you can
attend.  If nothing else, call the toll-free number listed & somebody
will be able to answer questions you have and also send your brochures
that will be helpful and insightful.  Be sure to ask for brochure on
legal issues, too ... those need to be taken care of while she's
capable!  I've done mine!!

Good luck to you and to your Mom.
don - 14 Apr 2007 22:32 GMT
> I would like to add that what your mother is experiencing is typical
> of Alzheimer's.

I realize that, but she didn't have these delusions much before taking
Aricept.  In just the few weeks she's been on it, she's become more and
more incoherent, and it's done absolutely nothing to improve her
short-term memory.

> By the way, be sure to check the Alzheimer's Association website
> (www.alz.org)

Been there - done that.  ;-)
Tumbleweed - 15 Apr 2007 11:32 GMT
>> I would like to add that what your mother is experiencing is typical
>> of Alzheimer's.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Been there - done that.  ;-)

Then its quite possible she doesn't have Az but another dementia. Diagnosing
Az is by no means an exact science, the only real diagnosis is by post
mortem.

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Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
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Easter Stephens - 16 Apr 2007 16:31 GMT
I have had Alzhiemers for 6years...and take Aricept.....I also have
Diabetes and the Metaforem is protecting me from the
Alzhiemers....except for the short term memory isn't like it should
be..I can't rememer 5minutes ago....
 
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