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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / April 2007

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Alzheimer's vaccine works on mice: Japan scientist

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June - 29 Mar 2007 15:09 GMT
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
Tumbleweed - 29 Mar 2007 22:03 GMT
> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329

very useful, if I find any mice with Az I'll be sure to remember this.

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Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

June - 29 Mar 2007 22:06 GMT
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>
> very useful, if I find any mice with Az I'll be sure to remember this.

I hope they work their way up to cats because mine never remember that
they've already been fed.....June
Tumbleweed - 29 Mar 2007 22:20 GMT
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>>
>> very useful, if I find any mice with Az I'll be sure to remember this.
>
> I hope they work their way up to cats because mine never remember that
> they've already been fed.....June

LOL.

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stopalz@gmail.com - 02 Apr 2007 02:53 GMT
On Mar 29, 9:03 am, "Tumbleweed" <thisaccountneverr...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> >http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> email replies not necessary but to contact use;
> tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

amyloid protein is a natural one. Then its impossible to do any
vaccine, and is criminal what they are doing with the people hope, LMS
June - 02 Apr 2007 14:04 GMT
> amyloid protein is a natural one. Then its impossible to do any
> vaccine, and is criminal what they are doing with the people hope, LMS

Unfortunately hope is all we have. This is a vaccine based on DNA not on
viruses.   BTW  The world isn't flat.......
Limestone-Cowboy - 02 Apr 2007 20:38 GMT
> On Mar 29, 9:03 am, "Tumbleweed" <thisaccountneverr...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> amyloid protein is a natural one. Then its impossible to do any
> vaccine, and is criminal what they are doing with the people hope, LMS

are you spamming me stopalz? please cease immediately
Evelyn Ruut - 02 Apr 2007 22:28 GMT
>> On Mar 29, 9:03 am, "Tumbleweed" <thisaccountneverr...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>
> are you spamming me stopalz? please cease immediately

They also dumped about 7 messages in my gmail box, all saying the exact same
cut and paste in reply to various posts of mine, without any personal
message   stopalz is a spammer and a quack.   Obviously a problem person.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Alan Meyer - 02 Apr 2007 23:32 GMT
> amyloid protein is a natural one. Then its impossible to do any
> vaccine,

That's just false.  As you can see, it worked in mice.  It is not
impossible at all.

> and is criminal what they are doing with the people hope, LMS

What's criminal is letting people die of Alzheimer's without
trying to develop a cure.

Will false hopes be raised?  Sure.  But that's an
unfortunate side effect.

   Alan
Alan Meyer - 02 Apr 2007 23:27 GMT
>> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>
> very useful, if I find any mice with Az I'll be sure to remember this.

I can see you've had you're hopes raised once too often TW.

This seems to be one of a large number of research projects
that are aiming to break down the amyloid plaques in the brain.
I expect at least one of these projects to succeed in the next
few years in breaking down amyloid without killing the patient.

However it isn't known whether that will halt the progress of
the disease.  We don't know, for example, whether the
processes that produce the amyloid plaques will continue
to operate and produce other kinds of damage, nor do we
know that the formation of the plaques, which clearly appear
to damage the neurons, might possibly be some sort of
molecular defense mechanism that prevents some worse
sort of damage that would occur if the plaques don't form.

One problem with mouse research in this regard is that the
mice don't live as long as humans and whatever ill effects
this vaccine might have might not have time to show up in
mice.  So even if the vaccine benefits mice and benefits
humans in the same way, it's possible that the benefit only
lasts 6 months or a year or so.

Nevertheless.  I'm pleased that this research is ongoing.
It's going to take years and years to figure all this out, but
the only way to do it is one step at a time, starting with test
tubes and moving to mice and then to humans.

If and when I get the disease, I plan to look for clinical trials
like this one and take my chances.  There is a tiny chance
of getting a cure, a larger chance of getting some benefit,
and perhaps a chance of benefitting my children and
everyone else's children who may have the cure by the
time they need it.

   Alan
Tumbleweed - 05 Apr 2007 21:40 GMT
>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>>
>> very useful, if I find any mice with Az I'll be sure to remember this.
>
> I can see you've had you're hopes raised once too often TW.

Nope, just that this endless reporting of research results is completely
pointless.
Whats the dropout rate from mice to humans/ 99 out of a 100 at a guess? And
then another 99 out of a hundred  at Phase 1, and so on?
Does soemone really believe that small percentage differences in the
behaviour of mice or of chemicals in a test tube are even *remotely* close
to anything that might make a difference, let alone a cure?

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Tumbleweed

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Evelyn Ruut - 05 Apr 2007 23:38 GMT
>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUST19940420070329
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> behaviour of mice or of chemicals in a test tube are even *remotely* close
> to anything that might make a difference, let alone a cure?

Hi "T"

Don't lose heart and get too pessimistic now :-)

Every now and then they discover something that really works out well.   I
am a type 2 diabetic.  About a year or so ago I heard online about a new
drug that was synthesized from Gila Monster saliva.... yes, you read that
right.... Lizard spit.    Turns out it is one of the best drugs out there
for type 2 diabetics.   I am losing weight and my blood glucose is well
controlled from this drug.    Anybody hearing about this would have thought
it was a joke or some sort of nonsense.  But it wasn't and isn't.   I'm
lovin' the lizard these days.   For anyone who is curious, they call it
Byetta.

Maybe one of these times we will all get lucky, and they will discover
something that works for alzheimers.  The only thing I am hoping is that
they discover something that works well in advance of it being diagnosed,
because if they come up with something that arrests the progress in the
middle of the illness, stopping the progression, it would condemn that
person to living a sort of a half-life until something else takes them away.
But anything that helped even a little would be a good thing.

But like you Tumbleweed, I get a little tired of them posting mouse studies
here.   I prefer they have a real drug with a real name that is going to be
released to the public in some reasonably forseeable future.

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Best Regards,

Evelyn

Dennis P. Harris - 05 Apr 2007 23:48 GMT
> Maybe one of these times we will all get lucky, and they will discover
> something that works for alzheimers.

but he's right.  all these breathless stories about "cures" that
really are very early lab results of tests on animals are really
unnecessary.  even if folks are desperate, that's no reason for
all the headlines that sound as if a cure is imminent.
Alan Meyer - 06 Apr 2007 01:05 GMT
On Apr 5, 6:48 pm, NO_SPAM_TO_dphar...@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 18:38:23 -0400 in alt.support.alzheimers,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> unnecessary.  even if folks are desperate, that's no reason for
> all the headlines that sound as if a cure is imminent.

As I understand it, there are some very powerful interests
driving this kind of press hullabaloo (that's a word I don't
think I've used in a long time :)

For the commercial labs, most of them small biotech firms,
it's getting funding.  They need to make a splash so that
one of the big drug companies will fund them, or maybe buy
them, to put money into the research.  Without the press
buzz attracting money, they can't get enough money to
pay salaries and continue research much less run a clinical
trial.

The universities aren't that much different.  Their labs
are funded by government grants or research contracts with
drug companies.  They too have to make a splash in order to
get their projects funded.  They also need some buzz to
further their academic careers and reputations.

It seems to be the way of the world.  If we want money to
flow into Alzheimer's research, we've got to hope that
there is a lot more flash and dash like this, and hope
also that it isn't all just smoke and mirrors.

   Alan
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Apr 2007 02:03 GMT
>> Maybe one of these times we will all get lucky, and they will discover
>> something that works for alzheimers.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> unnecessary.  even if folks are desperate, that's no reason for
> all the headlines that sound as if a cure is imminent.

Yes, it does get tiresome.

How about that guy who kept posting all this technical data... reams of the
stuff in endless posts?   Not a single word of his own, just copied and
pasted stuff from textbooks!

A lot of nuts out there.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

June - 06 Apr 2007 19:57 GMT
>>> Maybe one of these times we will all get lucky, and they will discover
>>> something that works for alzheimers.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> A lot of nuts out there.

Aw com'on give me a break.  I actually thought someone here might be
interested in a break through even if it is in mice.  You guys got a lot of
mileage out this post ...lizard spit and all.  Besides it's been kinda dull
in this newsgroup lately.
I got my polio vaccination back in the 50's.  I remember friends in school
who had polio and I remember the iron lung machine.   Look how far we've
come from that.  This one is a lot tougher but I believe it's doable.  Maybe
not for my generation, but who knows?   I'm not so jaded yet that I'm giving
up!  Quite frankly I think the Japanese may have better chance than here in
the US.   So much politics attached to research here.
'Sigh'  I won't post anymore "break throughs" .....June
Dennis P. Harris - 07 Apr 2007 04:58 GMT
> Aw com'on give me a break.  I actually thought someone here might be
> interested in a break through even if it is in mice.  

well, some of us have been seeing these "breakthrough" stories
for years and years.  i'm sick of them.  

call me when they actually have a vaccine that has passed trials
and is in production.  until then, i really don't care because
it's all vaporware.
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Apr 2007 12:45 GMT
>> Aw com'on give me a break.  I actually thought someone here might be
>> interested in a break through even if it is in mice.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and is in production.  until then, i really don't care because
> it's all vaporware.

That is true.

It is just a tease hearing about mouse trial drugs when they are years away
from availability.

But I was glad to see June posting, anyway.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Alan Meyer - 07 Apr 2007 23:58 GMT
...
>> call me when they actually have a vaccine that has passed trials
>> and is in production.  until then, i really don't care because
>> it's all vaporware.
...
> It is just a tease hearing about mouse trial drugs when they are years away from
> availability.

I know that most of these announcements don't lead anywhere.
Most of the new drugs don't work.

Still, I personally like to hear about them.  They help to renew
my hope that bright people are working on the problem and are
making progress, even if the progress is small and we're still
years or even decades from a cure.

I think that we shouldn't be too discouraged about how slow the
progress is.  Thirty years ago there was no understanding of the
causes or the nature of the disease, no real theories about it,
no drugs that did any good whatsoever, and no animal models
that could be used for testing.

Now, we have a partial understanding of the disease down to the
molecular level.  We have drugs that don't help very much, but do
help a little.  We have theories that scientists can use to
generate testable hypotheses for new drug developments.  We even
have specially bred mice that can be used in testing.  Even if it
happens that a successful test in mice doesn't mean it will be
successful in people, we at least can test and discard hundreds
of drugs that don't work in mice and couldn't even be tested
before.

So in spite of all the failures, I remain convinced that great
progress has been made.  I believe that a cure is not around the
corner, but it may not be too many years away.

   Alan
Evelyn Ruut - 08 Apr 2007 03:14 GMT
> ...
>>> call me when they actually have a vaccine that has passed trials
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>    Alan

I certainly hope you are right, Alan.... :-)
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Evelyn Ruut - 07 Apr 2007 12:42 GMT
>>>> Maybe one of these times we will all get lucky, and they will discover
>>>> something that works for alzheimers.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> than here in the US.   So much politics attached to research here.
> 'Sigh'  I won't post anymore "break throughs" .....June

Hi June,

Hey don't take offense.

Maybe it might be a 'breakthrough' for us by the time it gets to human
trials, but we hear so many of these mouse stories that tease, when it is
years away from being able to help any one.

And there was a person who posted reams of research here whom we all
killfiled.

Yes, it has been rather boring here of late.  Don't know why.   There are
people being diagnosed every day.   Perhaps they have gone to private lists.
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

Dennis P. Harris - 07 Apr 2007 04:56 GMT
> How about that guy who kept posting all this technical data... reams of the
> stuff in endless posts?   Not a single word of his own, just copied and
> pasted stuff from textbooks!
>
> A lot of nuts out there.

I only see them once.  That's what killfiles are for.
Bud - 06 Apr 2007 01:01 GMT
> they call it Byetta.

Oh darn! Now every time I pick up the syringe I'll see a little virtual
lizard sitting on my skin. Thanks a lot, Evelyn.  ;-)

Bud
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Apr 2007 02:01 GMT
>> they call it Byetta.
>
> Oh darn! Now every time I pick up the syringe I'll see a little virtual
> lizard sitting on my skin. Thanks a lot, Evelyn.  ;-)
>
> Bud

Hee hee!

Hubby makes lizard jokes about it all the time :-)
Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn

 
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