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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / March 2007new to alzheimer's, have a couple questions
My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that point, she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up driving, and then about 5 months ago, my dad had her move in with him. Then 3 weeks ago she broke her hip, and had a horrible backslide. She is now in a nursing home. She can't remember that we were there to visit an hour after we leave. I went to see her today, and she said she knows she's going downhill, and she just doesn't want to live like that. She rooms with another woman who has been in the facility for over 6 yrs. This woman also has alzheimer's, and she just lays there slack jawed and barely alive. My grandma has begged me to help her end it. We have the Oregon assisted suicide laws, but I don't think it would work for her because I believe you can't have any mental impairments to make that decision. I am left feeling despair, and utterly wiped out. Every time I go to visit her, I feel so awful, but I know the visits are important. I am just not sure where to turn with my feelings. There must be some support group somewhere... > My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that point, > she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up driving, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I am just not sure where to turn with my feelings. There must be some > support group somewhere... She can get somewhat better. The anesthesia and drugs from the surgery probably made her memory symptoms much worse and more apparent. This is normal after any surgery for people with AD or dementia. Our LO broke her hip and was totally out of it for several months and then she slowly recovered to back where she was before she broke her hip. The important thing for you is to help your grandma with her physical therapy. Our LO doesn't remember breaking her hip, being in the hospital or nursing home, but she can walk pretty good and is not much worse off physically. Make sure your grandma is not depressed, getting enough but not too much pain medicine, eating and drinking as much as possible, and doing her physical therapy. When our LO broke her hip we had to stay with her 24/7 or she would be getting up and trying to walk since she didn't remember breaking anything. You have some difficult months ahead of you. Try and help your grandma get better. good luck, AW Couple of things - she's only three weeks past a major trauma and surgery. Upset, injury, illness, anesthesia - all can totally knock them for a complete loop. The first time my mother in law broke her hip, she was ga-ga in the weeks following surgery to the point that the hospital staff would not believe us that she'd been living alone and doing fine prior to the hip break - they thought we were all lying and in denial. Give her some time, she is very likely to recover some ground - she may not come back 100% to where she was before she broke the hip, but she is quite likely to rebound a fair bit. It doesn't take much to really wallop a person with AD - under the best of circumstances, they can be holding on with their fingertips. She is also very likely to be depressed at this point, and there are medications that can help with that. Much as you feel for her, three weeks after a major injury is NOT a time to be talking about ending a life. M. > Couple of things - she's only three weeks past a major trauma and > surgery. Upset, injury, illness, anesthesia - all can totally knock [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > M. No, I didn't think so. I just didn't know what to tell her. I think finding an antidepressant might be a good start. Plus we are looking for a smaller more personal facility where she'll get better care. Hi....Please don't feel like it's your responsibility to fix this situation. You know you can't. There's no easy fixes and no easy answers. If your Grandma was in her right mind, I would guess she wouldn't want to put you in this situation. Accept that you can't change your Grandmother's condition and you'll feel better. Guilt isn't allowed here. I remember when I was young (20 years old) visiting my grandfather in the nursing home just a few days before his death. He begged me to get him out of there because a bomb was going to go off. I felt so bad. I just wanted to make him understand that there wasn't a bomb. I couldn't take him away from the inevitable and you can't save your grandmother. Take care of yourself. I'm sure others will have better advice, I can only say I understand.....June > My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that point, > she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up driving, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I am just not sure where to turn with my feelings. There must be some > support group somewhere... > Hi....Please don't feel like it's your responsibility to fix this > situation. You know you can't. There's no easy fixes and no easy [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Take care of yourself. I'm sure others will have better advice, I can > only say I understand.....June I don't fully understand AD yet, but the paranoia is hard to take. And she tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost like schizophrenia in some ways... >> Hi....Please don't feel like it's your responsibility to fix this >> situation. You know you can't. There's no easy fixes and no easy [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > she tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost > like schizophrenia in some ways... There are medications that are effective against delusions also. My mother in law imagined all sorts of things. I am sorry to tell you that you cannot believe or take these things too seriously. What you might want to take seriously is the fact that she is in some kind of distress from the delusions, not the delusions themselves.  SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn Ruut Evelyn, remember from a couple years ago of my postings; pleased to see you're still around (and fight again :-) >>> Hi....Please don't feel like it's your responsibility to fix this >>> situation. You know you can't. There's no easy fixes and no easy [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >to take seriously is the fact that she is in some kind of distress from the >delusions, not the delusions themselves. I only take Lipitor these days and some ginger but my memory is pretty non-existent. My wife has had to half her teaching time. Though you, and others, might be interested to know that doctors in Perth (Australia) have developed a computer system that determines, whether or not a person with Alzheimer's should be allowed to drive. Only a few days ago, I did my bit at their keyboard and, within some 15 minutes, (well not quite, I think I've still got it.) they confiscated my licence ticket. My personal impression is that there's quite some work and thorough testing to be done. anthony shipley Run away with me; I can make you unhappy. > I don't fully understand AD yet, but the paranoia is hard to take. And she > tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost like > schizophrenia in some ways... You're right, man. It is extremely hard to take. My Mother suffered from dementia that was PROBABLY brought on by mini-strokes. When she was put on both Excelon and one of the very popular anti-psychotics (who's name I won't mention), that's when she became VERY PARANOID. She went so far as to call 911 and tell them we were poisoning her. Naturally, we weren't. But she truly did think we were. That was my first exposure to paranoia of that type. To make a long story short, I was finally ready to give up. I called her geriatric psychiatrist and happened to mention to him what I wouldn't do to have her back even exhausted as she was when she first came back (after this first began to happen - I had to practically carry her at times). He had me put her on Zyprexe ONLY, and skip the Depakote, which it turns out is what made her so exhausted. She had been on both of those medications when she came back after the first episode. I had to sneak it into her drink. Within hours, we were conversing again, and I even took her out driving. It was so strange, to see the medication affect her THAT quickly. I guess what I'm trying to say (like others here), is don't give up yet. You might still have some decent time left with her. Sometimes it can be some work to get the medications right. Hopefully her last episode was from the anesthesia, as some of the others have indicated. Good luck, and let us know how things go. Hopefully, they'll improve. Charles R. Whealton Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com > > I don't fully understand AD yet, but the paranoia is hard to take. And she > > tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost like [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Charles R. Whealton > Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com Hi, My mom is on zyprexa.When she was in the hospital about a yr.ago they were not giving it to her.I brought her home babbling,not being able to talk at all.I noticed on her meds list they sent home that zyprexa was not on it.I started giving it to her and in 2 days she was back to normal.Zyprexa works pretty good at least for my mom.Barb On Mar 3, 11:52 pm, "deerwoodflo...@hotmail.com" <deerwoodflo...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I don't fully understand AD yet, but the paranoia is hard to take. And she > > > tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost like [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > zyprexa was not on it.I started giving it to her and in 2 days she was > back to normal.Zyprexa works pretty good at least for my mom.Barb Yea, I'd have to say that it was a major help for my late Mother. I know I've read some "not so great" things about it in the media lately. I guess all/most medications have side effects. I will say that despite any negative effects it may have on some people, I don't know what we'de have done without it. Charles R. Whealton Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com Charles commented about the fact that most meds have side effects. Mary responds: I do find the situation with Alzheimer's frustrating sometimes - in that families get so scared of the bad press about side effects that they are reluctant to try some meds. I get questions on all experts sometimes from families whose doctors have actively discouraged them from trying certain meds in the name of preserving the health of the person (i.e. scared them so the potential benefits seemed much outweighed by the risks). The thing is....its a progressive, relentless TERMINAL illness that in effect destroys the person's life long before it kills their body. Even if a med shaved a few months off the total length of their life, if it improved the quality of their remaining time, made them happier, more comfortable, maybe a bit higher functioning - heck, the trade off would be worth it in most cases. Its kinda like people with terminal cancer and in pain being nervous about becoming addicted to morphine. When my mother in law went through this (she died in 1999), there really was nothing offered to help her other than occasional tranquilizers, and it was just miserable for her (and for everyone who cared about her). We would gladly have used anything at all that might have made her last years more happy and bearable. Mary G. On Mar 4, 12:24 pm, Mary_Gor...@tvo.org wrote: > Charles commented about the fact that most meds have side effects. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Mary G. I have to agree with you here. I can't say if other medications may have been better for my late Mother, but if they were, we sure didn't find them. I'm glad this one was available to us. We saw a significant benefit from it. Charles R. Whealton Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com >>Hi....Please don't feel like it's your responsibility to fix this >>situation. You know you can't. There's no easy fixes and no easy [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > tells us that they tie her to the bed, which they don't. It's almost like > schizophrenia in some ways... Oh, determined, I'm sorry. Yes, the paranoia is heartbreaking. My mother became certain that my brother, the best of men, who had been busting his @ss to take care of her for a few years straight, was lying about her illness so he could steal her money. She "knew" he was beating his son, and said she wished she had a gun so she could shoot him. She "knew" he wanted to kill his dog, and ended up taking the dog to a total stranger's house three blocks away -- it was this incident that precipitated us forcing her into locked-door care against her will. I have no great wisdom or comfort to give you, only the bleak comfort of telling you you've come to a place where *everyone* understands what you're going through, and where you're free to vent, to weep, to laugh (happens now and then) and to ask all the questions you have. Welcome to the club nobody wanted to join. Dana > My > grandma has begged me to help her end it. We have the Oregon assisted [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I am just not sure where to turn with my feelings. There must be some > support group somewhere... what counts legally is not what your grandmother says now that she's impaired, but what she put in writing as final directives (living will, durable power of attorney for health care) *before* she got AD. those are the instructions that should control what docs and caregivers can or can't do. it's not unusual to feel despair when someone you love is in this situation and you can't do anything. feel free to come here and vent anytime. what you can do is find out who has the power to talk to the doc about her meds. if she is depressed, it might help for her psych doc to prescribe an anti-depressant. as others have said, AZ patients go downhill quickly when they have an infection or injury, because poor physical health sucks away the tremendous energy it takes to keep things together when your memory is marginal. in addition to this group, you might want to contact your local alzheimers association and ask about caregiver support groups that you and other family members can attend. > My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that point, > she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up driving, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I am just not sure where to turn with my feelings. There must be some > support group somewhere... Hi determined, It seems that everyone has weighed in on this question and given you lots of very good advice already. I can only add a little to, or endorse what has already been said. Firstly, I would like to specifically endorse the comment that she might need antidepressants. My mother in law threatened suicide all the time, and she was so unhappy. When the doctor put her on Zoloft it made a world of difference. She was a lot happier and more at peace. Secondly, it is too soon after a major surgery to even think about assisted suicide. Her alzheimers will continue to get worse, as that is the nature of the illness, but before that, her physical issues will get better and she may yet have some quality of life left. Hold off on that thought altogether. She isn't in her right mind just now, and if she was, she wouldn't be asking you to help her do it. Give her some time to heal and adjust. Thirdly, there are support groups everywhere. Contact the alzheimers association in your area, and they will probably direct you to a group. There is hardly anyone anymore who hasn't experienced someone who has had it in their circle of friends or family. Real life support is great. Online support is also great. Avail yourself of both. Continue to come here and ask when things come up. We've all been through this journey with one loved one or another, and we care. Alzheimers is awful, but I think the family suffers even more than the person who has it. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn Ruut >> My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that point, >> she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> decision. I am left feeling despair, and utterly wiped out. Every time >> I go to visit her, I feel so awful, but I know the visits are important. > Hi determined, (snip) > Secondly, it is too soon after a major surgery to even think about > assisted suicide. Her alzheimers will continue to get worse, as that is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > was, she wouldn't be asking you to help her do it. Give her some time to > heal and adjust. (snip) > Best Regards, > > Evelyn Ruut The Oregon assisted suicide law does not apply to anyone with depression or Alzheimer's. This law is only used about twice a month for people with terminal cancer although more people might aquire the medicine and then never use it. There is not an active euthanasia program running rampant in Oregon. AW >>> My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that >>> point, she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave up [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > never use it. There is not an active euthanasia program running rampant in > Oregon. AW Who said anything about "rampant euthanasia"? Euthanasia is not even allowed in Oregon. >>>> My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that >>>> point, she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Who said anything about "rampant euthanasia"? Euthanasia is not even > allowed in Oregon. When some people read anything about Oregon's assisted suicide law a portion of them believe that euthanasia is common and performed on the elderly all the time in Oregon. Looks like 38 people total in 2005 took advantage of the assisted suicide law. http://egov.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/docs/year8.pdf AW >>>>> My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that >>>>> point, she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > elderly all the time in Oregon. Looks like 38 people total in 2005 took > advantage of the assisted suicide law. I wasn't really interested in actually helping her with suicide, I am more concerned with dealing with her requests, her attitude about life and death, and her basic loss of will. >>>>>> My grandma was diagnosed with alzheimers about 4 yrs ago. At that >>>>>> point, she still lived alone, drove, etc. About a year ago, she gave [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > concerned with dealing with her requests, her attitude about life and > death, and her basic loss of will. Then reread my initial message to you. I never said or implied you were seeking to end your grandmother's life. My comments regarding the assisted suicide law were not directed specifically to you but as a general comment to the rest of the group. AW > I wasn't really interested in actually helping her with suicide, I am more > concerned with dealing with her requests, her attitude about life and death, > and her basic loss of will. her requests: you need to understand that she can no longer reason because she can't remember long enough to engage in the sequence of thoughts and actions that consititute reasoning. because she can no longer reason, many of her requests may not be valid, and very possibly could not be what she really wants. her attitude: someone who is old, ill, tired, and in a lot of pain has a good reason to be depressed. the important thing is what her attitude was *before* she got AD, before she had surgery. it's the attitude expressed (i hope) in her living will. you didn't say how old she is, but many folks feel that they've already lived long enough if they make it past 80, especially if they are always in pain, have lost their independence, or are exhausted all the time. once she is dying and she is ready to accept death, the family should tell her it's OK to go, that everyone is safe, and that if she needs to leave it's OK. you should also understand that you are grieving, something not unusual for family members of AD patients. we grieve *before* the person dies, because we are watching them disappear right in front of us and we can't do anything. your local hospice has grief counselors, as well as groups that meet to talk about dealing with death and grief. they are all free or available at little cost. |
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