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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / January 2007Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ?
Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ? Some light metals has long been suggested to be a causal factor to Alzheimer, it is only recently that Dr. Rosanna Squitti at the University of Rome, has discovered a link between copper and Alzheimers. The logic is quite simple, a metal interfers with the brains electro chemcial impulses. Another light metal often assocated with Alzheimers has been Aluminum. The widespread use of aluminum cans and especially the use of alum flakes to be used as a nucleous for filtering water often results in high level of aluminium remaining in the water. Prior to meeting Dr. Squitti, I was investigating the water supplies here in Thunder Bay; there was two supplies. The Fort William side of the city had a gravity fed, spring source water source that was eliminated in favor of expanding the Lake Superior water source. On examining the water filtration process it was noted that Alum was being used to filter the water resulting in aluminum levels rising from .02 mg/liter to .36 mg/liter. Yet there were no standards for aluminum in drinking water in Canada ? I might suggest that the lobbying efforts by the Aluminum industry and media relation efforts (ie S&H Incorporated), the same company lobbying the American government for the US Coalition for US lumber producers, is able to dispell the connection between Alzheimers and Aluminium; both have become big business in this country for some. Caesar J. B. Squitti > Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ? *yawn*  SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com > Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ? Ok..... I admit I quit using deodorants with aluminum based complexes years ago. I don't use aluminum or copper cookware and damn... I "forgot" about aluminum cans........June > > Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ? > > > I "forgot" about aluminum cans........June Actually, aren't all aluminum cans coated with plastic film on the inside? I don't think the food or drink comes in contact with aluminum. Ceasar's statement that " The logic is quite simple, a metal interfers with the brains electro chemcial impulses" strikes me as way too simplified. The "electro-chemical impulses" in the brain are not anything at all like electronic circuits. They are propagated as "chains of de-ionization", accomplished by moving sodium and potassium ions into and out of neurons. Other ions, including aluminum and copper ions, cannot pass through the transport mechanisms that move sodium and potassium, and I'm not sure how they would interfere with them. A number of different metals are known to be essential to human life including iron, copper, and magnesium. We will die without them. The blood, for example, cannot carry oxygen without the iron ions embedded in hemoglobin. Too little iron results in "iron deficiency anemia". It was reported many years ago that higher than normal levels of aluminum had been found in the brains of some AD patients. But, to the best of my knowledge, nobody ever established why that might be so, whether it was a cause or a consequence of AD, or whether it had anything to do with it at all. I also don't know how well confirmed those original observations were, or whether all AD patients or just some of them have this symptom. Maybe, for example, copper or aluminum plays some protective role in AD and the body accumulates it in the brain in response to AD rather than as a cause of it. All of this is not to say that aluminum or copper don't play a role in AD. Maybe they do. Maybe they cause AD or maybe they even protect against it. I just think we can't jump to conclusions based on oversimplified ideas about metals conducting electricity. [I'm watching you TW. Stop yawning -:)] Alan > All of this is not to say that aluminum or copper don't play > a role in AD. Maybe they do. Maybe they cause AD or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Alan Hi Alan, Nothing wrong with any of your reasoning on this. But there is no stopping the stream of scammers and spammers and cockeyed theorists who come into all the various support newsgroups trying to sell their snake oil or pet theories. None of them have a single thing to offer to help those of us who have loved ones to care for who are already afflicted with this rotten disease. Now if they came up with a single good idea on how to overcome all the denial we meet with, that would be something constructive. Regards, Evelyn Hello, I ran into your mesage while researching on "Anemia". I want to ask you all a question about Anemia. I read an article at http://www.medical-health-care-information.com/encyclopedia/A/Anemia.asp This article says"Anemia is a lower than normal number of red blood cells (erythrocytes) in the blood, usually measured by a decrease in the amount of hemoglobin. Hemoglobin is the red pigment in red blood cells that transports oxygen. Anemia can be confirmed by a red blood count or hemoglobin level. Other tests depend on the type of anemia." It must be true. Let me know whether its true or not. Regards Monica > > > Alzheimers and Light metals; A Connection ? > > > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Alan > It must be true. Let me know whether its true or not. the nutters are all out today :-( SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com > It was reported many years ago that higher than normal > levels of aluminum had been found in the brains of some AD [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > original observations were, or whether all AD patients or > just some of them have this symptom. Indeed, and IIRC they were never confirmed and not backed up by subsequent studies. > All of this is not to say that aluminum or copper don't play > a role in AD. Maybe they do. Maybe they cause AD or > maybe they even protect against it. I just think we can't > jump to conclusions based on oversimplified ideas about > metals conducting electricity. ""For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." ~ H.L. Mencken" > [I'm watching you TW. Stop yawning -:)] Ah, but its very catching. Cant you just feel one coming on? :-) SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com Aw come on TW wake up and join the fray. Nobody has all the answers but conjecture can be enlightening......June >> [I'm watching you TW. Stop yawning -:)] > > Ah, but its very catching. Cant you just feel one coming on? :-) > Aw come on TW wake up and join the fray. Nobody has all the answers but > conjecture can be enlightening......June it *can* be, but in this case, isn't. SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com Carnac the Magnificent lives on.........June >> Aw come on TW wake up and join the fray. Nobody has all the answers >> but conjecture can be enlightening......June > > it *can* be, but in this case, isn't. > Carnac the Magnificent lives on.........June As thats a US reference (I guess), I dont know if its complementary or highly abusive :-) SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com I was being silly. I guess I'm not sure why nutritional factors should be ruled out or in for that matter. I've always been somewhat proactive and it's hard to stand by and not seek some "reason" even if it's obscure for a particular dementia. Some families have it and some don't. Plain truth. My family has it. My husband's large family that be traced back many generations (many living into their 90's or more) does not. Maybe it's that super gene thing who knows? Forgive those of us that "Do not go gentle into that good night" .......June >> Carnac the Magnificent lives on.........June > > As thats a US reference (I guess), I dont know if its complementary or > highly abusive :-) Carnac the Magnificent lives on.........June >> Aw come on TW wake up and join the fray. Nobody has all the answers >> but conjecture can be enlightening......June > > it *can* be, but in this case, isn't. > The "electro-chemical impulses" in the brain are not > anything at all like electronic circuits. They are propagated [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and potassium, and I'm not sure how they would interfere > with them. SNIP ARTICULATE RESPONSE. Everything you write may be true, Alan, but within the past year, I had an experience with a MRI that led me to a search for some clarity on the subject of the original post. I was 49 at the time and terrified of MRIs (so a placebo effect could definitely be ruled out). I had been experiencing vertigo for the longest time, and, since no other diagnostic test could find the cause, I finally agreed to an open MRi of my brain. After the test (and this was in December, close to Christmas time), I went to shop for my elderly mom. As young as my late 30's, I had experienced vertigo in large buildings. As far as skyscrapers were concerned, the nausea started even *before* I entered them, to the extent that I could not visit downtown LA, where I was living at the time, for periods longer than a half hour. This was not a phobic response; I'm not afraid of crowds. Up until recently, I rode packed public buses with no problem. Anyway, while doing the shopping after my MRI, I noticed that I was vertigo-free--so vertigo-free that I felt as if someone gave me an awfully good drug. The wellness faded within twenty-four hours, but it interested me sufficiently to go online and investigate the affect of an MRI (which of course operates on the power of magnets, which of course deal with metals) on blood. Up until the MRI, I had been convinced that, despite being a vegetarian with very high good cholesterol levels, my vertigo was directly related to overall cholesterol problems. But then I read that clinical trials were underway all over the country--and within the military--to test a new device called the Trans Cranial Magnetic Stimulator (very akin to a MRI) on people with PTSD. As I mentioned in another post, I was diagnosed officially with this condition in 1997 and developed it full-blown in 1987. In a discussion with a trial coordinator at Columbia, I learned that the clinical trial phase is over, and that the FDA approval is now the only thing keeping this unbelievable therapy from a very needy public. I had a follow-up, "closed" MRI last May, and the relief from vertigo was even more pronounced and even longer lasting. Sadly, all the magnets I could afford were a magnet sleeping pad from Amazon.com. But believe it or not, it helps. I don't understand it; I don't claim there aren't variables that work for non AD clients that would not work for AD clients. I do, however, believe firmly that *some* metal component in the blood was "set free" during my two MRIs, and that I felt twenty years old again. The clinical trial coordinator at Columbia, as well as trial coordinators at other sites, call it Magnetic Electroshock therapy. Who cares what it's called if it works. The place where I learned most about it is where I hoped (no luck) to be treated: www.neuronetics.com. Anyway, this is an extremely interesting topic. >I was 49 at the time and terrified of MRIs (so a placebo effect could >definitely be ruled out). I dont see why, in fact, its probably even more likely. You are terrified of them.....OK, so you probably imagine (maybe subconsciously) they are very powerful, they are claustrophobic inducing, you may have a panic attack, it may do something very nasty.....so why wouldnt you also ascribe a subsequent effect on your brain/personality/behaviour to it? If we look at what happened, you underwent a procedure that was extremely scary to you and you endured it and indeed werent at all harmed and didnt have a panic attack, so its not surprising you then experienced a great feeling of euphoria afterwards, its probably similar to a footballer scoring the winning goal or passing your driving test or any other great personal accomplishment, especially if you had been really worried about it before for no doubt days or even weeks before. No need to invoke unknown ultra discriminatory effects of magnetism that can selectively affect certain thoughts only. If it scrambled up a bit of your brain to remove your vertigo under certain circumstances, would also screw up enough other bits of your brain that you'd be lucky to be alive let alone able to turn on a computer and type. SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com > I had a follow-up, "closed" MRI last May, and the relief from vertigo > was even more pronounced and even longer lasting. Sadly, all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > believe firmly that *some* metal component in the blood was "set free" > during my two MRIs, and that I felt twenty years old again. it's all in your head. > This was not a phobic response; I'm not afraid of crowds. Up until > recently, I rode packed public buses with no problem. Anyway, while [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > being a vegetarian with very high good cholesterol levels, my vertigo > was directly related to overall cholesterol problems. given your family medical history, i would look closer at the relation of your vertigo to anxiety. patients with high anxiety who have panic attacks often experience very strong physical symptoms during attacks, and can often experience a euphoric relief when the panic episode is over. it's entirely possible that unconsciously you were so relieved when the MRI was over that your brain was flooded with endorphins (another aftereffect of the increased adrenalin released during a panic attack). if magnets have any effect (and this has been tested many many many many times in the last 250 years) it's a placebo effect. sleeping on a pillow with a vedic or native american medicine bundle would probably have the same effect. Hi... I just had to post and tell you that your symptoms of vertigo and the panic attacks sound very similar to a life long friend of mine. She has Meniere's Disease. In the beginning a few years ago she couldn't go shopping in the grocery store because of the high shelves and even needed a cane to get around. She too developed Panic Attacks and she was always an out going person. With time and medication she doesn't need the cane or have the panic attacks. She gets along with only the occasional bout of vertigo. I figured when reading your post that you had been tested for Meniere's but I then I thought maybe not. My friend has other problems with her thyroid as well which affects her mood and metabolism. Luckily she has found a doctor that has gotten all this under control and is pretty much her old self these days. Hope this helps. Good Luck....June > After the test (and this was in December, close to Christmas time), I > went to shop for my elderly mom. As young as my late 30's, I had [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Anyway, this is an extremely interesting topic. > Hi... I just had to post and tell you that your symptoms of vertigo and the > panic attacks sound very similar to a life long friend of mine. She has > Meniere's Disease. Hi, June, and thanks for the response. "Vertigo" is such a vague complaint (the most common complaint for elderly people to their primary care physicians). Anyway, what the good folk here either overlooked or chose to ignore is that this technology has been tested in government-funded clinical trials. I'm of the opinion that if some therapy works for a person, no matter how outlandish to another, it--works! In fact, the researched into Trans Cranial Magnetic Stimulation at Columbia University (where I tried to get included in the clinical trials) said that the most common reaction from trial participants is the same kind of amazement I experienced, that something non-invasive and non-pharmacological could dispel the "vertigo." He went on to say that the drawback of this therapy would be that it would have to be administered every day (which I suspected, due to the way the "afterglow" faded in about twenty-four hours). Also, no insurance plan I know of covers it--and in Mom's new Medicare directory, it explicitly states that this kind of therapy isn't covered. It's a shame. I'm speaking from personal experience--not experience as a caregiver--when I say that the affect "vertigo" (or Meniere's, or "light-headedness") has on a person is sufficiently frightening to bring on the fearfulness and withdrawal that at least to a layperson seem the breeding grounds for dementia. I try to keep an open mind. There is so much about the universe we don't understand. In the scheme of things, it hasn't been that long since germs were discovered or even the fact that the world is round. Galileo was thought to be a nut. Unfortunately there are those people that are wacko and sometimes it's hard to sort them out. I first heard the aluminum and copper theories on mental health 30 years ago. I didn't dismiss them then and I'm not ready to totally dismiss them now. I don't believe these things cause alz but then some dementias maybe. My brother scoffed at UFO stories ...until he became an Air Traffic Controller. It's perspective .......June >> Hi... I just had to post and tell you that your symptoms of vertigo and >> the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > frightening to bring on the fearfulness and withdrawal that at least to > a layperson seem the breeding grounds for dementia. >I try to keep an open mind. There is so much about the universe we don't >understand. In the scheme of things, it hasn't been that long since germs >were discovered or even the fact that the world is round. well, around 2,500 years. > Galileo was thought to be a nut. By religious people. Nuff said. > Unfortunately there are those people that are wacko and sometimes it's > hard to sort them out. I first heard the aluminum and copper theories on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My brother scoffed at UFO stories ...until he became an Air Traffic > Controller. It's perspective .......June That reminds me of the saying "They said Galileo was crazy, they said Einstein was Crazy, they said Arthur was crazy" "Who was Arthur?" "My Uncle. He *was* crazy". SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com >>I try to keep an open mind. There is so much about the universe we don't >>understand. In the scheme of things, it hasn't been that long since >>germs were discovered or even the fact that the world is round. > > well, around 2,500 years. History must be different in your part of world. The germ revolution is hardly 100 years old and here we're taught that as late as 1492 when Columbus sailed, most Europeans thought the world was flat. My calculations are around 500 years give or take a few decades. I'll quit splitting hairs if you will. At least you quit yawning for awhile.......June PS I visited your country a few years back. Loved Stonehenge, love the history, the people, and hope to return someday. Violet, Surprisingly perhaps, MRI has nothing to do with metals in the body. It uses a combination of magnetic waves and electro-magnetic (radio) waves to alter the "spin" of hydrogen nuclei in soft tissue which can then be detected as they "relax" back to their original state and re-emit the energy that was absorbed in the spin change. The physics involved are frighteningly complicated and I have only a slight understanding of them, but you can read more about them by searching for MRI in the Wikipedia. However there is no magnet you can buy in a store or on the Internet that would have the power to re-align the spin of hydrogen nuclei. It is my understanding that it would not be possible to simulate any part of what an MRI does using a magnetic sleeping pad. I think Dennis may be on the right track in explaining what happened to you. If Dennis is right, that is actually great news for you because it means that you DEFINITELY CAN overcome this problem, and you don't need a million dollar machine to do it. There are counselors who can be very, very good at helping people overcome phobias. They use a variety of techniques, often including visualization - teaching you how to call up certain images or thoughts when a panic attack starts that will calm you right down again, or even hypnotic suggestion to help overcome the sort of negative self-suggestions we have trouble escaping from when a panic attack begins. I would suggest inquiring in your area if there are any counselors who specialize in overcoming phobias. You may be able to master this problem with a little help from someone with the right skills and experience. Best of luck, Alan > ... a combination of magnetic waves and electro-magnetic > (radio) waves ... This should have been ... a combination of a magnetic _field_ and electro-magnetic (radio) waves ... Alan wrote - > If Dennis is right, that is actually great news for you because it > means that you DEFINITELY CAN overcome this problem, and you > don't need a million dollar machine to do it. I would strongly agree - it is good news for you to know that techniques exist which can help you. I would like to add - that most of the discussion around the connection between aluminum and other metals and AD differ from the situation you described. Difference between prevention and treatment. The metals arguments propose finding ways to avoid all contact - don't cook in aluminum, don't use deoderants with aluminum salts, don't store food in aluminum foil Doing so ( or not doing so) is proposed to prevent AD. This is a hard position to prove, because scientific inquiry would (at least in its present state) involve one group of people who rigorously avoided all contact with suspect metals, and one group who didn't avoid contact, and the follow their progress through life and then determine if there was a statistically significant difference in overall health, including development of AD. I think this would be a hard sell, both for to a research group AND to a potential group of participants. In your situation, AFTER your symptoms developed, you discovered a way to ease them and feel better. It's very possible that both positions are right. Avoid suspect metals, and improve your chances. Experience distress and relieve the distress through specific procedures involving certain metals and magnets. It seems to me you've already proved the second, at least for your set of symptoms and for others who experience similar distress. Certainly, if I had felt like you do, based on your descriptions of what happened, I would give your methods a try. Proving the first is a long, long way off, and perhaps never possible. SignatureA R Pickett aka Woodstock "Sometimes the facts threaten the truth" Amos Oz, prize winning Israeli author Read my book reviews at: http://www.booksnbytes.com/reviews/_idx_ws_all_byauth.html Now blogging! http://www.journalscape.com/woodstock/ Remove lower case "e" to respond I took a very superficial look at the literature on aluminum and Alzheimer's on Pubmed. The data is inconclusive and very complicated. Mice appear not to be affected by aluminum, but rabbits might be. In a trial with six rats receiving high doses of aluminum salts, two showed some signs of dementia in old age, but the abstract didn't say how many rats would normally show such signs and six is hardly a statistically significant sample size. The guys who started it all with the first observation of aluminum and AD (D.P. Perl and S. Moalem) say they think "... it is unlikely that aluminum represents an etiologic cause of Alzheimer's disease", but they think it might be involved in the "pathogenesis" of the disease. I take it that means they think that it doesn't cause AD but it might be one of the ingredients of AD related structures in the brain. The major source of aluminum may not be aluminum pans, but rather aluminum salts in drinking water. So what do we do? I personally avoid anti-perspirants and aluminum pans. I don't avoid aluminum cans - which are plastic lined anyway. Beyond that, I don't worry about it. I sometimes think I could focus all my mental energy on thinking about aluminum, iron, curcumin, fish oil, and so on, and while I'm thinking hard about these things, wander out in the street and get hit by a car. Life is too short and the real problems of life are too immediate to spend too much time worrying about things for which we have no solid information and no clear path of action anyway. Alan > I took a very superficial look at the literature on aluminum and > Alzheimer's on Pubmed. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Alan Hi Alan, I agree with you. My father is 93 and has used aluminum pots and pans all his life. Based on that, I don't really see any connection. Again, it's anecdotal evidence, and too small of a test sample to count. The bottom line is that they don't know what causes alzheimers disease at this time. Unfortunately as long as we don't know, there will always be scammers and snake oil salesmen trying to sell us this or that pet cockamamy theory. Regards, Evelyn |
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