Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / August 2006
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mel waite - 25 Aug 2006 08:12 GMT Hello All I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very worried lady with a view to making an electronic Tag that she could attach on to her husband who has alzheimer's, so that she would know when he had wandered away from her, at a preset distance. I started designing the tag, but was informed by a friend that this may breach the husbands human rights & that this would be frownd upon by officialdom, & possibly be illegal! Is he right?. Does any body have any information regarding this subject please.
Tumbleweed - 25 Aug 2006 08:52 GMT > Hello All > I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be illegal! Is he right?. Does any body have any information regarding > this subject please. [For our US friends, the 'humans rights act' is a piece of nonsensical European legislation, that is often used as the imaginary reason (or excuse when someone doesn't want to do something) why you cannot do numerous things, some of them no doubt correct, others not, and in each case needing to be tested by the courts before its determined whether something does or doesn't offend. People (like this second 'friend') tend to convict themselves or others and constrain their actions on pain of imaginary offences without the law actually having to do anything. Very 1984-ish.]
Now, having got that out of the way; 1) You can already buy devices like this so making one is pointless unless its just your hobby and you fancy doing it, some care homes use them to sound an alarm when a resident 'escapes', they ahve been discussed here before. 2) If your friend needs such a device then almost by definition, she has a bigger problem, it sounds as if her husband is already in a dangerous position because she cannot, by herself look after him and is looking at technology to fix the problem (what's she going to do if he removes it, she falls asleep, etc etc). 3)Some 'prisoners' in the UK are already tagged for house arrest in a similar manner, you can have devices that will broadcast your position as you move around the country, so there certainly is nothing in the HRA that specifically forbids such devices. 4) Don't convict yourself before you did something! What about his 'human right' to be safely cared for and not wander into danger? Maybe that is being violated by her caring for him on her own 24x7? See what I mean, there's no end to the damn thing, you are both guilty in either event. Do what you think is best and ethical, not what you think 'officialdom' might care about. 5)Try getting some help from 'officialdom' rather than living in fear of them, they are meant to help us, not us be their slaves. Why are you needing to build such a device when officialdom is meant to help get the right care for people? 6) Check to see if there is some way you can more meaningfully help your friend. For example, does she get help from social services, her husband in day care to give her rest, all the right financial benefits, etc? All more useful than a device that might tell her husband is nowhere to be found when she wakes up 2 hours after he went off somewhere. Or that doesn't warn her because the battery failed or it otherwise went wrong so she didn't go looking for several hours after he left because she assumed he was nearby as there was no warning. 7) There are a couple of uk legal groups (I'd recommend the moderated one) if you are still worried about what officialdom will do to you, rather than what they should be doing *for* you. But with the HRA its all opinion anyway, there is no way of knowing what the law actually means until you go to court.
 Signature Tumbleweed
email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com
Dana Carpender - 25 Aug 2006 15:58 GMT > Hello All > I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very worried [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > this would be frownd upon by officialdom, & possibly be illegal! Is he > right?. Does any body have any information regarding this subject please. I know that more than one care facilty for Alzheimer's patients uses a system of bracelets and a perimeter wire that warns them when people are going out of the building -- sort of an invisible fence for people. I don't see how what your friend wants is any different.
Dana
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Aug 2006 17:15 GMT >> Hello All >> I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Dana They have nanny-cams and baby monitors.... I can't see anything wrong with it, but I can bet you that the person who is supposed to be carrying or wearing the tag will surely think to themselves "what the heck is this thing? Hmmmm... toss it in the trash". Anyone who needs to wear such a device will never be able to grasp the principle or remember what it was for.
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Dana Carpender - 25 Aug 2006 17:42 GMT >>>Hello All >>>I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > device will never be able to grasp the principle or remember what it was > for. IIRC, the place we toured, considering it for my mom, had bracelets that were *not* easy to remove.
Dana
John Inzer - 25 Aug 2006 17:59 GMT > IIRC, the place we toured, considering it for my mom, had > bracelets that were *not* easy to remove. > > Dana ============================= My MIL wore an ankle braclet in the NH and she could not remove it.
She tried going out the door on several occasions and without the braclet to set off the alarm who knows where she would have gone.
 Signature John Inzer
Evelyn Ruut - 25 Aug 2006 18:51 GMT >>>>Hello All >>>>I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Dana If it is to work at all, they'd have to make it nearly impossible to get off
:-)
 Signature Best Regards,
Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Dana Carpender - 25 Aug 2006 19:45 GMT >>>>>Hello All >>>>>I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > If it is to work at all, they'd have to make it nearly impossible to get off > :-) I've seen an ad for a pool alarm system, with bracelets that lock onto the kids' arms, and set up an alarm if the kids fall in the pool. The bracelets have to be opened with a key.
Dana
Beth Cole - 25 Aug 2006 19:58 GMT >>> IIRC, the place we toured, considering it for my mom, had bracelets >>> that were *not* easy to remove. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the kids' arms, and set up an alarm if the kids fall in the pool. The > bracelets have to be opened with a key. That actually sounds very similar to the monitoring & alert system that my FIL (who, at 82, is still fully competent) has. The nurse at the hospital that runs the system has the key to the lock, and he is not able to take off the bracelet that he wears. There is never a time that he is without it. He tests the system on a weekly basis, and he's had the bracelet replaced twice.
We helped him get signed up for the monitoring system after he had a stroke in 2002 and he lay on the floor for several hours before he crawled to a phone to call his neighbor, who called EMS for him.
Beth
 Signature Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain
Becka - 30 Aug 2006 06:13 GMT > Hello All > I am an expierienced electronic engineer, & was approached by a very worried [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > this would be frownd upon by officialdom, & possibly be illegal! Is he > right?. Does any body have any information regarding this subject please. I am from WI, we have a great resource to help with elderly or handicapped people, it's called the Aging Resource Center. They provided me with something called 'Safe Return" it is a bracelet that is worn by the 'patient' it contains an ID number. If this person is "found" , they would call the phone number on the bracelet, and give the ID number on the bracelet, this company would then call the contact agency or family that is listed. When I signed my father up, I was told it was nation wide. I actually got a locking bracelet type, similar to the medic alert bracelets, and put it on next to his watch band. It was extremely difficult to get off. Also for at home, there are alarms that can be placed on doors, that when activated and the door is opened an alarm will go off. There must be agencies in your area that would offer advice or assistance. Call, thats what they are there for. Good Luck
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