Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2006
Tumeric Circumin
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Alan Holbrook - 22 Jul 2006 10:58 GMT I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also wanted to toss this out to the group. At the same symposium where the "cure" paper was presented, there was a paper presented about the potential benefits of tumeric circumin as a treatment to delay cognitive decline in AD patients. A Google search to circumin turns up a couple of supporting references, and my contact at the Alzheimer's Organization had heard of this as well.
Tumeric curcumin is an OTC dieatary supplement derived from the same sources as the Indian spice of the same name, and is available, at least in the US, from the usual vitamin stores like GNC and Vitamin World. Researchers apparently got interested in the statistically lower levels of AD incidence in the Indian population and went looking for possible causes. Turmeric circumin showed up as one of these.
My wife's neurologist has both of us taking a 500mg capsule a day, as does he and the rest of his family. This is in addition, of course, to more AD focused meds like Aricept.
Or, alternatively, you could just visit your local Indian restaurant a few times a week...:-)
Alan
Tumbleweed - 22 Jul 2006 11:29 GMT >I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also > wanted to toss this out to the group. At the same symposium where the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Alan Just a thought...given that people in india have a statistically lower chance of getting Az, but they also have a statistically lower life span and statistically higher chances of getting various cancers. There will be many causes for these, but maybe one of them is _also_ tumeric circumin?
This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were they to be discovered today, would never get approval to be used. Potatoes for example. Maybe its because Indians (in India) dont in general eat potatoes?
It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle and genetics. All that Omega 3 stuff is looking very shaky these days, the initial discoveries came about because of those mass population studies but a study of the studies themselves recently showed that the larger the study, the smaller the apparent effect, eg its more likely to be statistical anomalies. In fact, look how long it took just to establish that ciggarettes caused lung cancer, and that is probably 1000x more clearcut than Az and tumeric (if there is an association). So, putting it another way, if there is an effect, it cant actually be a very strong effect.
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Dennis P. Harris - 22 Jul 2006 11:49 GMT > This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a > particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were they > to be discovered today, would never get approval to be used. Potatoes for > example. Maybe its because Indians (in India) dont in general eat potatoes? nope. there are lots of indian potato recipes (some of which use turmeric).
Tumbleweed - 22 Jul 2006 13:36 GMT >> This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a >> particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nope. there are lots of indian potato recipes (some of which use > turmeric). I'm sure there are lots of potato recipes for us Brits and maybe you Yanks, but are potatoes a significant percentage of the diet in india? I thought rice was the main staple there? As an example of recipes, by far the biggest selling 'indian' dish in the UK, available at all UK Indian restaurants, doesnt come from India, it was invented in the UK(Tikka masala).
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Dennis P. Harris - 22 Jul 2006 23:27 GMT > I'm sure there are lots of potato recipes for us Brits and maybe you Yanks, > but are potatoes a significant percentage of the diet in india? I thought > rice was the main staple there? As an example of recipes, by far the biggest > selling 'indian' dish in the UK, available at all UK Indian restaurants, > doesnt come from India, it was invented in the UK(Tikka masala). the indian cookbooks i have contain a number of potato recipes, mostly from north india. there are various types of curried potatoes, sometimes with other vegetables. one cookbook author referred to her family's favorite homemade snack --- fried matchstick potatoes with lots of fresh ground black pepper.
Alan Meyer - 23 Jul 2006 04:36 GMT > ... > It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle and genetics. > ... I agree with all of your arguments. The data supporting dietary factors in Alzheimer's Disease is very tenuous.
I judge these things based on a combination of several factors including:
Strength of evidence for a supplement (usually very weak) Evidence of the danger of a supplement. Cost.
Some supplements like vitamin D and E are potentially dangerous at high doses. I would require a great deal of evidence for the value of such a supplement before I took a high dose of it.
Some "supplements" like green tea and curry powder are thought to be very safe because they've been used by millions for hundreds of years without any _known_ ill effects. They're also cheap. I don't require as much evidence for them before taking them. However, even with them I don't go overboard on dosages.
I also take ibuprofen. The danger is probably higher than, say, green tea or curried foods. But the benefit seems to be better documented. However I just take low doses of that too.
I'm probably just kidding myself, but taking some supplements makes me feel like I'm doing _something_ to try to protect myself.
For what it's worth however, the things that I place most of my hopes on are mental and physical exercise. I know they're good for me in many ways, possibly including AD protection. I don't know of any downside to them as long as I don't hurt myself by overdoing it.
Alan
Adelle - 23 Jul 2006 13:22 GMT >> ... >> It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Alan An acquaintance of mine from another NG is an Israeli physician. Long time ago (5 0r 6 years, maybe), he sent me some reports of research they were doing in Israel on circumin. They found it beneficial for MS and other neurological diseases and also as an anti-inflammatory. While its not a 'magic pill,' it does mitigate somewhat. But I forget the dosage.
Adelle
June - 23 Jul 2006 16:06 GMT I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can contain a lot of synthetics. The belief being the 100% natural (much more expensive) will be recognized as food by the body and what you don't need is passed out. Synthetics tend to accumulate in the body sometimes causing the very symptom you're trying to treat. I don't mess with herbs because that can get dangerous. After all a lot of drugs are made from herbs. Of course moderation is best as in most things. I once owned stock in a supplement company and these are some of the things I learned from the doctor who developed the formulas.......June
> Some supplements like vitamin D and E are potentially > dangerous at high doses. I would require a great deal of [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Alan Alan Meyer - 24 Jul 2006 17:24 GMT >I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can contain a lot of >synthetics. The belief being the 100% natural (much more expensive) will be recognized [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >supplement company and these are some of the things I learned from the doctor who >developed the formulas.......June You may be generally right about the synthetic / natural distinction, though there must be exceptions. There are probably some synthetics that are perfectly fine.
Another big issue with supplements is purity. The supplement companies are not regulated. There is no guarantee that they contain what they say the contain, in the amount that they say they contain, and nothing else, other than the word of the company.
A fellow in another newsgroup said he subscribed to reports from ConsumerLab.com and that "Swanson" and "Puritan's Pride" are two brands that always pass for purity and potency, so I tend to use them. But coming from me, that's just 3rd hand information. If anyone else has hard data on brand names I'd love to hear about it.
Alan
Dana Carpender - 24 Jul 2006 20:38 GMT >>I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can contain a lot of >>synthetics. The belief being the 100% natural (much more expensive) will be recognized [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > though there must be exceptions. There are probably some > synthetics that are perfectly fine. Well, and it's really unlikely that a supplement is 100% natural. A jar of, say, vitamin C extracted from foods, even high-C foods like rose hips, would be prohibitively expensive -- probably hundreds of dollars.
I also have to say that I get a little worked up about the whole "it's natural" argument. Many, many very dangerous substances are natural. Rattlesnake venom. Cocaine. Tobacco. Death angel mushrooms.
That being said, I'm Supplement Girl myself. :-)
Dana
RArmant - 30 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT >I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also >wanted to toss this out to the group. At the same symposium where the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >references, and my contact at the Alzheimer's Organization had heard of >this as well. You might try www.pubmed.com Use curcumin as a keyword or curcumin alzheimer's to narrow in on the curcumin alzheimer's studies. Use other keywords like DHA , egcg, and green tea
You can find a lot of ground breaking studies at this sight.
You can get better absorption of curcumin if you take it with a few milligrams of bioperine.
DHA from fish oil looks promising. Carlson super DHA fish oil capsules contain 500mg of DHA per capsule. http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-exec/PNAME/Super_DHA_500mg_EPA_100mg/product_ id/16033
RArmant - 31 Jul 2006 00:11 GMT >I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also >wanted to toss this out to the group. At the same symposium where the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Or, alternatively, you could just visit your local Indian restaurant a few >times a week...:-) Scientists at UCLA have been doing a lot of research on curcumin and DHA for Alzheimer's. http://www.accelerating.org/articles/curcumin.html
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