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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2006

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Tumeric Circumin

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Alan Holbrook - 22 Jul 2006 10:58 GMT
I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also
wanted to toss this out to the group.  At the same symposium where the
"cure" paper was presented, there was a paper presented about the potential
benefits of tumeric circumin as a treatment to delay cognitive decline in
AD patients.  A Google search to circumin turns up a couple of supporting
references, and my contact at the Alzheimer's Organization had heard of
this as well.

Tumeric curcumin is an OTC dieatary supplement derived from the same
sources as the Indian spice of the same name, and is available, at least in
the US, from the usual vitamin stores like GNC and Vitamin World.  
Researchers apparently got interested in the statistically lower levels of
AD incidence in the Indian population and went looking for possible causes.  
Turmeric circumin showed up as one of these.

My wife's neurologist has both of us taking a 500mg capsule a day, as does
he and the rest of his family.  This is in addition, of course, to more AD
focused meds like Aricept.

Or, alternatively, you could just visit your local Indian restaurant a few
times a week...:-)

Alan
Tumbleweed - 22 Jul 2006 11:29 GMT
>I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also
> wanted to toss this out to the group.  At the same symposium where the
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Alan

Just a thought...given that people in india have a statistically lower
chance of getting Az, but they also have a statistically lower life span and
statistically higher chances of getting various cancers. There will be many
causes for these, but maybe one of them is _also_ tumeric circumin?

This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a
particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were they
to be discovered today, would never get approval to be used. Potatoes for
example. Maybe its because Indians (in India) dont in general eat potatoes?

It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle and
genetics. All that Omega 3 stuff is looking very shaky these days, the
initial discoveries came about because of those mass population studies but
a study of the studies themselves recently showed that the larger the study,
the smaller the apparent effect, eg its more likely to be statistical
anomalies. In fact, look how long it took just to establish that ciggarettes
caused lung cancer, and that is probably 1000x more clearcut than Az and
tumeric (if there is an association). So, putting it another way, if there
is an effect, it cant actually be a very strong effect.

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Dennis P. Harris - 22 Jul 2006 11:49 GMT
> This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a
> particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were they
> to be discovered today, would never get approval to be used. Potatoes for
> example. Maybe its because Indians (in India) dont in general eat potatoes?

nope.  there are lots of indian potato recipes (some of which use
turmeric).
Tumbleweed - 22 Jul 2006 13:36 GMT
>> This is the case, for example, with a particular cancer in Japan and a
>> particular common foodstuff. There are many common foodstuffs that were
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> nope.  there are lots of indian potato recipes (some of which use
> turmeric).

I'm sure there are lots of potato recipes for us Brits and maybe you Yanks,
but are potatoes a significant percentage of the diet in india? I thought
rice was the main staple there? As an example of recipes, by far the biggest
selling 'indian' dish in the UK, available at all UK Indian restaurants,
doesnt come from India, it was invented in the UK(Tikka masala).

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Dennis P. Harris - 22 Jul 2006 23:27 GMT
> I'm sure there are lots of potato recipes for us Brits and maybe you Yanks,
> but are potatoes a significant percentage of the diet in india? I thought
> rice was the main staple there? As an example of recipes, by far the biggest
> selling 'indian' dish in the UK, available at all UK Indian restaurants,
> doesnt come from India, it was invented in the UK(Tikka masala).

the indian cookbooks i have contain a number of potato recipes,
mostly from north india.  there are various types of curried
potatoes, sometimes with other vegetables.  one cookbook author
referred to her family's favorite homemade snack --- fried
matchstick potatoes with lots of fresh ground black pepper.
Alan Meyer - 23 Jul 2006 04:36 GMT
> ...
> It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle and genetics.
> ...

I agree with all of your arguments.  The data supporting dietary
factors in Alzheimer's Disease is very tenuous.

I judge these things based on a combination of several
factors including:

 Strength of evidence for a supplement (usually very weak)
 Evidence of the danger of a supplement.
 Cost.

Some supplements like vitamin D and E are potentially
dangerous at high doses.  I would require a great deal of
evidence for the value of such a supplement before I
took a high dose of it.

Some "supplements" like green tea and curry powder
are thought to be very safe because they've been used
by millions for hundreds of years without any _known_
ill effects.  They're also cheap.  I don't require as much
evidence for them before taking them.  However, even
with them I don't go overboard on dosages.

I also take ibuprofen.  The danger is probably higher than,
say, green tea or curried foods.  But the benefit seems
to be better documented.  However I just take low doses
of that too.

I'm probably just kidding myself, but taking some
supplements makes me feel like I'm doing _something_
to try to protect myself.

For what it's worth however, the things that I place most
of my hopes on are mental and physical exercise.  I
know they're good for me in many ways, possibly including
AD protection.  I don't know of any downside to them as
long as I don't hurt myself by overdoing it.

   Alan
Adelle - 23 Jul 2006 13:22 GMT
>> ...
>> It is hugely difficult to disentangle the effects of diet and lifestyle
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>    Alan

An acquaintance of mine from another NG is an Israeli physician. Long time
ago (5 0r 6 years, maybe), he sent me some reports of research they were
doing in Israel on circumin. They found it beneficial for MS and other
neurological diseases and also as an anti-inflammatory. While its not a
'magic pill,' it does mitigate somewhat. But I forget the dosage.

Adelle
June - 23 Jul 2006 16:06 GMT
I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can
contain a lot of synthetics.   The belief being the 100% natural (much more
expensive) will be recognized as food by the body and what you don't need is
passed out.   Synthetics tend to accumulate in the body sometimes causing
the very symptom you're trying to treat.   I don't mess with herbs because
that can get dangerous.  After all a lot of drugs are made from herbs.  Of
course moderation is best as in most things.   I once owned stock in a
supplement company and these are some of the things I learned from the
doctor who developed the formulas.......June

> Some supplements like vitamin D and E are potentially
> dangerous at high doses.  I would require a great deal of
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
>    Alan
Alan Meyer - 24 Jul 2006 17:24 GMT
>I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can contain a lot of
>synthetics.   The belief being the 100% natural (much more expensive) will be recognized
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>supplement company and these are some of the things I learned from the doctor who
>developed the formulas.......June

You may be generally right about the synthetic / natural distinction,
though there must be exceptions.  There are probably some
synthetics that are perfectly fine.

Another big issue with supplements is purity.  The supplement
companies are not regulated.  There is no guarantee that they
contain what they say the contain, in the amount that they say
they contain, and nothing else, other than the word of the
company.

A fellow in another newsgroup said he subscribed to
reports from ConsumerLab.com and that "Swanson" and
"Puritan's Pride" are two brands that always pass for purity
and potency, so I tend to use them.  But coming from me,
that's just 3rd hand information.  If anyone else has hard data
on brand names I'd love to hear about it.

   Alan
Dana Carpender - 24 Jul 2006 20:38 GMT
>>I always look for 100% natural on my vitamins not just natural which can contain a lot of
>>synthetics.   The belief being the 100% natural (much more expensive) will be recognized
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> though there must be exceptions.  There are probably some
> synthetics that are perfectly fine.

Well, and it's really unlikely that a supplement is 100% natural.  A jar
of, say, vitamin C extracted from foods, even high-C foods like rose
hips, would be prohibitively expensive -- probably hundreds of dollars.

I also have to say that I get a little worked up about the whole "it's
natural" argument.  Many, many very dangerous substances are natural.
Rattlesnake venom.  Cocaine.  Tobacco.  Death angel mushrooms.

That being said, I'm Supplement Girl myself. :-)

Dana
RArmant - 30 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT
>I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also
>wanted to toss this out to the group.  At the same symposium where the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>references, and my contact at the Alzheimer's Organization had heard of
>this as well.

You might try www.pubmed.com 
Use curcumin as a keyword or curcumin alzheimer's to narrow
in on the curcumin alzheimer's studies.  
Use other keywords like DHA , egcg, and green tea

You can find a lot of ground breaking studies at this sight.

You can get better absorption of curcumin if you take it with
a few milligrams of bioperine.

DHA from fish oil looks promising. Carlson super DHA
fish oil capsules contain 500mg of DHA per capsule.
http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-exec/PNAME/Super_DHA_500mg_EPA_100mg/product_
id/16033

RArmant - 31 Jul 2006 00:11 GMT
>I didn't want to "dilute" my post about optimism and cures, but I also
>wanted to toss this out to the group.  At the same symposium where the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Or, alternatively, you could just visit your local Indian restaurant a few
>times a week...:-)

Scientists at UCLA have been doing a lot of research on curcumin and DHA
for Alzheimer's.
http://www.accelerating.org/articles/curcumin.html
 
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