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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2006

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Julian's grandfather

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Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2006 00:26 GMT
Hi everyone,

I just got off the phone with Julian.   His grandfather was going out with
the alzheimer group (like a daycare center) and he fell down the stairs,
breaking his hip.   He is in the hospital right now.  Since it is too late
to visit, Julian is going there in the morning to see how he is doing.
Julian has heard (as we all have) that when an older person falls and breaks
a hip like that, they often go downhill very quickly.    He is hoping that
isn't going to be the case, but all is uncertain just now.

To complicate matters, Julian has no rapport with his father for many years.
At a time like this, when some families might draw together, it is the
opposite in his.   His father strikes out in hatred, rather than to reach
out in comfort.   Your kind thoughts and prayers for his grandfather, Arthur
and also for Julian, are appreciated.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

John Inzer - 06 Jul 2006 02:20 GMT
> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> out in comfort.   Your kind thoughts and prayers for his
> grandfather, Arthur and also for Julian, are appreciated.
=======================================
I'm sorry to hear about Jules' grandfather.

FWIW...Rosie fell and broke a hip in 1999 while she
was living with us. She fully recovered in about three
months and continued her life as before until she
died from AD related issues in 2005.

The broken hip...in and of itself...did not affect her
overall health or the progression of AD.

Good luck to all involved...especially Jules' grandfather.

Signature

John Inzer

Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2006 02:33 GMT
>> Hi everyone,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Good luck to all involved...especially Jules' grandfather.

That is reassuring to know, John.   Thanks for posting this.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

John Inzer - 06 Jul 2006 13:10 GMT
> That is reassuring to know, John.   Thanks for posting
> this.
===============================
I'm hoping Jules' grandfather will recover
quickly and continue his life as though the
accident never happened.

Signature

John Inzer

Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2006 13:44 GMT
>> That is reassuring to know, John.   Thanks for posting
>> this.
> ===============================
> I'm hoping Jules' grandfather will recover quickly and continue his life
> as though the accident never happened.

Hi John,

I just heard from Julian again this morning, and he went to see his
grandfather at the hospital and found him groggy, just recuperating from
joint replacement surgery.   Julian is having some computer problems on top
of all this, so I'll be keeping you all posted if I hear anything.
Apparently it isn't like it was years ago..... when someone breaks a hip
they do a repair right away, nowadays.   Years ago a broken hip was nearly a
death sentence.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

John Inzer - 06 Jul 2006 14:39 GMT
> Hi John,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> nowadays.   Years ago a broken hip was nearly a death
> sentence.  
=====================================
Sounds promising...please keep us updated.

Too bad about the computer...my dad used to
say life's problems could be like bananas...
they come in bunches.

Signature

John Inzer

Adelle - 06 Jul 2006 15:49 GMT
>>> That is reassuring to know, John.   Thanks for posting
>>> this.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> they do a repair right away, nowadays.   Years ago a broken hip was nearly
> a death sentence.

Evelyn,

Even immediate repair can cause issues, as it did for my FIL. No need for
detail now.

Unfortunately, it is true that statistically, there is a correlation between
hip fracture and death within a year. But I think that's because many of the
elderly who suffer hip fracture are also otherwise medically fragile (or on
the verge of being medically fragile and the fracture and recovery tip the
balance).

Adelle
gensearchN@gmail.com - 06 Jul 2006 16:44 GMT
What Adelle said is generally thought to be true. I have seen it both
ways though. With my FIL his hip fx from a fall at the rest home was
the beginning of the end for him. Several other medical issues peaked
during that time, HOWEVER, with my MIL, her two fx and subsequent
surgeries had much better outcomes.  She's still holding on and about
the same.
Prayers for Julian's grandfather.

Evelyn, I've been away awhile. Is Julian the young man in the UK that
joined last fall seeking info on how to help his grandfather who'd
practically raised him?
Susan

> Evelyn,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Adelle
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jul 2006 21:20 GMT
> What Adelle said is generally thought to be true. I have seen it both
> ways though. With my FIL his hip fx from a fall at the rest home was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> practically raised him?
> Susan

Hi Susan,

Yes, he's the fellow.   His grandfather is really all he's got.   So it is a
difficult situation.   Prayers are surely appreciated now.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

>> Evelyn,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>>
>> Adelle
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 06 Jul 2006 16:50 GMT
My late MIL broke both hips, one in early AD and the second in later
mid AD - the two incidents were about 4 years apart. The first she did
very well with, since she was well enough to participate in the therapy
to get her walking again, and was motivated to work at it (she
understood the point of the painful exercises). The second one was the
end of walking for her - not because of the injury itself, but just
because she was too mentally impaired to cooperate with any kind of
physio - we just couldn't get her walking again, and that was the end
of that. She lived two years after the second break, so neither
contributed to any kind of spiral (the AD did that.)

She didn't have complete joint replacement either time, but plates,
pins, screws, etc. so in terms of physical impact it was similar
surgery.  Both times, by far the worst part of the whole thing was the
general anesthesia, which really knocked her on her keister. I've told
the story here before that at the time of the first break, although she
had an appointment lined up with a neurologist, she hadn't been
formally diagnosed with AD. The break ended up causing a 6 month delay
in that process, since we had to deal with the hip before the memory
issues. She was living alone, driving her car, buying her groceries,
doing her housework, and overall, coping fairly well, with some prompts
and supports. Coming out of the surgery and in the days and weeks that
followed, she was totally loopy (like she'd suddenly lept ahead to a
much later stage AD) and the hospital staff would not believe us that
she'd been fairly okay prior to surgery. They got social workers to
talk to us, wanted her to go straight to a nursing home permanently,
berated us about being in denial etc.

She did come around most of the way back (not quite where she'd been
prior to the trauma, but enough to go home to live alone for another
year), but it took some time.

So, tell Jules not to despair, but to expect the drugs, trauma, and
anesthesia to cause some real confusion in his grandfather. The really
important thing is to get him walking again. Its being stuck in bed
that does the damage - muscles atrophy, lungs deteriorate etc. Once
mobility is lost or seriously impaired, the body really begins to
deteriorate.  If he can get his grandfather up on his feet, and moving,
things will likely work out well. He can doubtless talk to the
physiotherapists and figure out how he can help - encouraging
exercises, getting out the walker and the cane and taking him for a
stroll around the halls, or eventually around the block with the dog
etc.

Mary
Mary K Farrell - 06 Jul 2006 21:26 GMT
 My mom fell and broke her hip. She didn't have AD; she had Parkinsons.
But, what I'm trying to say is: they replaced the joint. Mom was so terribly
osteoporotic that the new joint broke through the bone. Pins and screws
didn't do any better. So, she wasn't able to walk and had quite a bit of
pain until she developed scar tissue. She nonetheless managed to live for
another 6 years. Physicians don't like to give patients false hope that
everything is going to be all right. I hope Julian's grandpop recovers
nicely and has a decent quality of life for however long is possible with
AD.
 > My late MIL broke both hips, one in early AD and the second in later
 > mid AD - the two incidents were about 4 years apart. The first she did
 > very well with, since she was well enough to participate in the therapy
 > to get her walking again, and was motivated to work at it (she
 > understood the point of the painful exercises). The second one was the
 > end of walking for her - not because of the injury itself, but just
 > because she was too mentally impaired to cooperate with any kind of
 > physio - we just couldn't get her walking again, and that was the end
 > of that. She lived two years after the second break, so neither
 > contributed to any kind of spiral (the AD did that.)
 >
 > She didn't have complete joint replacement either time, but plates,
 > pins, screws, etc. so in terms of physical impact it was similar
 > surgery.  Both times, by far the worst part of the whole thing was the
 > general anesthesia, which really knocked her on her keister. I've told
 > the story here before that at the time of the first break, although she
 > had an appointment lined up with a neurologist, she hadn't been
 > formally diagnosed with AD. The break ended up causing a 6 month delay
 > in that process, since we had to deal with the hip before the memory
 > issues. She was living alone, driving her car, buying her groceries,
 > doing her housework, and overall, coping fairly well, with some prompts
 > and supports. Coming out of the surgery and in the days and weeks that
 > followed, she was totally loopy (like she'd suddenly lept ahead to a
 > much later stage AD) and the hospital staff would not believe us that
 > she'd been fairly okay prior to surgery. They got social workers to
 > talk to us, wanted her to go straight to a nursing home permanently,
 > berated us about being in denial etc.
 >
 > She did come around most of the way back (not quite where she'd been
 > prior to the trauma, but enough to go home to live alone for another
 > year), but it took some time.
 >
 > So, tell Jules not to despair, but to expect the drugs, trauma, and
 > anesthesia to cause some real confusion in his grandfather. The really
 > important thing is to get him walking again. Its being stuck in bed
 > that does the damage - muscles atrophy, lungs deteriorate etc. Once
 > mobility is lost or seriously impaired, the body really begins to
 > deteriorate.  If he can get his grandfather up on his feet, and moving,
 > things will likely work out well. He can doubtless talk to the
 > physiotherapists and figure out how he can help - encouraging
 > exercises, getting out the walker and the cane and taking him for a
 > stroll around the halls, or eventually around the block with the dog
 > etc.
 >
 > Mary
 >
Dennis P. Harris - 07 Jul 2006 02:28 GMT
> Apparently it isn't like it was years ago..... when someone breaks a hip
> they do a repair right away, nowadays.   Years ago a broken hip was nearly a
> death sentence.

and in britain, a hip replacement candidate can be on the waiting
list for quite a while unless they have an accident like this.
nevertheless, it's much better now than when the tories were in
power, with much longer waiting lists even for surgery for
life-threatening situations.

at least that's what the prime minister keeps saying during his
"question time" on c-span.  too bad bush doesn't have to answer
questions from the senate every week.  ;^)
august - 06 Jul 2006 21:52 GMT
> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> reach out in comfort.   Your kind thoughts and prayers for his
> grandfather, Arthur and also for Julian, are appreciated.

Our LO broke her hip at age 80. We were aware of the 66% death rate within
one year studies. After a week in the hospital and 2 months in the nursing
home we took home her to her upstairs apartment. My wife stayed with her
from 7pm to 7AM each day and I stayed with her from 7AM to 7PM for 3 months.
Despite her having severe osteoporosis she recovered and has lived another 9
years without breaking any more bones (prior to the broken hip she had 8
compression fractures). She doesn't remember anything about breaking her
hip, just that her leg aches from time to time.

Good luck Julian and all the best to your grandfather.     AW
Char - 06 Jul 2006 22:24 GMT
> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> out in comfort.   Your kind thoughts and prayers for his grandfather, Arthur
> and also for Julian, are appreciated.

Dear Evelyn,

Julian is another I have thought about even though not participating in
the group.  Please give him my encouragement--he may remember me as the
one who lived in England for awhile & we chatted back & forth about that
& the daffodils.

Always,

Char
Ronny TX - 07 Jul 2006 04:14 GMT
>  
> Julian's grandfather  
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> prayers for his grandfather, Arthur and
> also for Julian, are appreciated.
Ronny:
Prayers said for Julian's Grandpa,him and all.
 
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