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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2006The immovable object vs. the irresistible force
Dear Group, I have what *I* see as an insoluble dilemma in my LO's lives, at the moment. I would like to get some practical ideas from this group, please. I'm all out of them, and I had always been accustomed to thinking of myself as a resourceful and creative problem solver. One parent is demented, (LBD, or Alz. with LBD), has been for several (7) years, and is getting far, far worse. Other parent has tried to carry the bulk of the burden far too long, and now refuses to seek meaningful help. I was the secondary caregiver until just about a year ago, though nothing I have ever suggested, (forcefully, and with meaning, thanks to this usenet group) made very much difference. Still, before the parents moved 1,000 mi. away a bit over one year ago, to live near my brother and his family, the "healthy" parent had 4 hrs. a week of non-family help, and participated in a rigidly structured weekly sport. (It was a golf league, blah, blah, blah.) I was also going to the parents' home 4-6 days a week to help out, give the "healthy" parent a break, etc. (Did I say, I have a vitally necessary full-time job? No spouse, anymore.) My bro' and SIL, who live where my parents moved last year, are *not* obstacles, and have done their level best (eventually), but they really don't either a) have, or, b) want to sacrifice the time to do for the 'rents what I did. I do not mean that they should -- just trying to describe the setting. So, cut to the chase, the demented parent is spiralling ever-further downward, having terribly paranoid, nasty, negative delusions. The long- burnt-out caregiving parent will still not accept any outside help, even for a couple of hours of veggie-time. That one will only welcome help if it facilitates a golf outing...clearly impossible, when, due to nearly daily medical appointments, there has been no opportunity to form any sort of social network in a new area. Oh, yeah, did I mention, affected LO has approximately 15+ other specific medical conditions, some on a steady, some on a rotating basis? These include, aside from the seemingly complex dementia, acoustic neuroma; COPD; joint deterioration/replacement: one knee, one hip, one shoulder, so far, another shoulder scheduled [let's leave that one quiescent in today's discussion, okay?]; shingles; Lord knows what else, 'cause I've forgotten...my mind feels like it's in a blender, at this point, but it goes on, and on. And on.) My teeth are literally turning into powder... Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I may breach "healthy" parent's defenses? From a distance? Nervous lol. I've tried all sorts of techniques for so very many years with so little success, to date. I adore Mary G's advice, among several others', (DH, ER, TW, to get going -- all regular posters apply, here), but is there anyone here who has coped with this with both parents who has any suggestions I can put into practice? (I think there most surely is!) Great thanks, Deborah seems to me that from your distance its unlikely you can do anything, (esp if you couldnt dio it whilst you were there), and time may be the only answer. -- Tumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com > Dear Group, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Great thanks, > Deborah > Dear Group, (snip) > So, cut to the chase, the demented parent is spiralling ever-further > downward, having terribly paranoid, nasty, negative delusions. The long- > burnt-out caregiving parent will still not accept any outside help, (snip) > My teeth are literally turning into powder... (snip) > Great thanks, > Deborah Dear Deborah, My reply is for you, and also to some degree to myself, as you will see below, as my siblings and I are also dealing with a paranoid irrational parent at this time. When my mother was alive I was coping all the time with two nearly dysfunctional people, though their various dysfunctions manifested in different ways. It was maddening, yet they were married for 63 years to one another, coping by using one sick behavior to compensate for anothers sick behavior. Essentially, they had managed to work out some sort of livable symbiotic co-insanity between themselves, but for the rest of us (the children) it could be very stressful. While they had each other to play off of, it was possible to just stay away and out of the fray for most of the time, which worked reasonably well, but any kind of proximity just exacerbated the misery for us all (meaning the kids). Growing up in such a household can only be hinted at, because it was indescribable. Getting out and on my own was a kind of heaven, but we were still interlinked irrevocably as family. Now that my mother is gone, my 93 yr old father has a live in lady friend (who is the remaining half of another couple my parents were friends with for many years). He has managed to transfer some of his life-long co-insanity strategies to this lady, who for some self-seeking reasons, goes along with it all and plays his game. They are sort of companions, and she gets a small stipend and free rent for her caregiving. But the mind games continue, especially now that there is a new ally to play off of. Remember, this is a man for whom hatred has been his only emotional currency for all his life, and strange to say, at 93 it still is. At the moment I am the currently hated one (though he switches that from one to the other of us occasionally) and now it is my turn to play the villian, the current bane of his existence, the one he reviles and spews hatred about endlessly to the others, ranting about 50 year old perceived slights. Never mind that it is all completely irrational and illogical, and cooked up out of whole cloth.......apparently it serves some purpose in his overall life strategy to have some object to spew his hatred on. Isn't that what having kids is for? In his view, it is. The incident which triggered his latest paranoid aggression was a complete misunderstanding, but that fact is one he chooses not to hear or acknowledge. So from the standpoint of dealing with irrational behavior from a parent, I have life-long experience, and I am no spring chicken. Being innocent doesn't matter, what matters is what is in that confused persons mind. There is no solution, or resolution to THEIR behavior. The only thing you can do is work with the way you, yourself deal with it. You can either make yourself sick over things you cannot change, or you can get philosophical about it and wait for time to bring the situation to some sort of a crisis point, in which you will finally be called upon to act in some way. Until that point, you need to find some sort of coping strategy. For some it can be a religious or spiritual path involving a greater picture and some sort of reconciliation on a spiritual level. For others it can be to lose oneself in ones own life and pursuits until some key factor in the equation changes. I am employing both, and I am sure there are other strategies that may be just as effective, but unique to your life. The one thing you SHOULDN'T do, is to ruminate over it all the time, punish yourself mentally by replaying things over and over in your head, or to allow it to color your happiness, or worst of all, to get angry or hateful in return. Remember, this is a person, who for whatever reason, is not being reasonable, and anger is a highly poisonous attitude to indulge in. It is poisonous to YOU, not to them. They themselves are the perfect example of that. Life is a hard teacher and there will come a point when the immovable object or irresistible force begins to crumble. Until then, try and be happy in your own life. Let life teach the person whatever it is they need to learn. You don't really need to do anything but wait. It may sound cruel on the surface, but know that there absolutely will be a point when something will give out or give in, and only then will your suggestions or help have any weight. Until then it is unwanted, and will be rejected with equal force to the level applied. In the meantime, YOUR life is job-one. Being happy and living productively and creatively in the face of such a challenge is the very best solution of all.  SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') > It may sound cruel on the surface, but know that there absolutely will be > a point when something will give out or give in, and only then will your > suggestions or help have any weight. Until then it is unwanted, and will > be rejected with equal force to the level applied. AHAH! Thats exactly what I wanted to say but couldnt find the words for :-) SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com Well said Evelyn. Sometimes we just have to believe that our parents do the best they know how to do when they raise us. When I was younger, I had issues with my mother's constant criticism. She was raised that way and thought that's what she should do. When I was in my late 20's, I finally went to a shrink for depression and he told me that constructive criticism is suppressed hostility. I told my mother what he said some 30 years ago and for the most part the criticism stopped. I realize that my mother wanted to change and I appreciated that. I've always liked the Serenity Prayer: Change what you can, Accept what you can't change and God grant me the wisdom to know the difference. Makes life a little easier. Give it time and it will work for you. With Alz, my mother is like a sweet natured child. While waiting in the doctor's office the other day, she reached over and smoothed down my hair. She said it was sticking up...always a mother.....June P.S. I spent money on hair balm to make it look that way. LOL > There is no solution, or resolution to THEIR behavior. The only thing > you can do is work with the way you, yourself deal with it. You can [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > productively and creatively in the face of such a challenge is the very > best solution of all. > Well said Evelyn. Sometimes we just have to believe that our parents do > the best they know how to do when they raise us. When I was younger, I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > She said it was sticking up...always a mother.....June > P.S. I spent money on hair balm to make it look that way. LOL Hi June, That's cute! :-) I only wish old age would make my father a little bit sweeter :-( SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') >> Dear Group, > [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > productively and creatively in the face of such a challenge is the very > best solution of all. I feel a bit stupid, because I already knew all of this. <g> Intellectually, though not necessarily emotionally. Thanks for being there, Evelyn, Tumbleweed, et al. It's good to know that there is support available here, for most anyone. Deepest Thanks, all, Deborah >>> Dear Group, >> [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > > Deborah Deborah, I know it too, but it still hurts. It was therapeutic for me to write it and I am glad it was helpful to you too. As you said, we may know it intellectually, but emotionally it is always a challenge. I get sad if I let myself think about it, so I am trying not to. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') > Life is a hard teacher and there will come a point when the immovable object > or irresistible force begins to crumble. Until then, try and be happy in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > and creatively in the face of such a challenge is the very best solution of > all. what she said, and then some. you should take advantage of the fact that you aren't close to give up some of the worry burden. you cannot be responsible for your father's behavior, and you will have to let him suffer the consequences of his stubbornness. you can use this time to refresh and prepare yourself for when you will be needed. that could be anything from giving yourself more time to exercise or get outdoors, to a local caregiver's support group, to visiting a therapist or a hospice counselor (even if you don't realize it, part of your emotional upheaval over this is grieving for the parent that you've already lost), a 12-step support group (alanon, for instance teaches family members that they aren't responsible for the behavior of others), or spending time doing something creative where you can express yuor emotions. believe me, when the crisis finally comes, your efforts *will* be wanted and needed. detached monitoring while preparing for the inevitable is truly the best strategy. you might suggest the same to your siblings. >> Life is a hard teacher and there will come a point when the immovable >> object or irresistible force begins to crumble. Until then, try and [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > inevitable is truly the best strategy. you might suggest the > same to your siblings. I'm a hard, hard case. I've done Al-anon, I know the steps. It has been a long, long time since I was active, so I must have fallen into old ways. Different triggers, y'know. I do most sincerely appreciate your remarks, though. (Evelyn, I still owe you, and I have *not* forgotten.) They are very sensible and rational. I suppose I'm still reactionary, but I have seldom failed to recognize reason when it's put before me so clearly. I thank you. My sib seems to be far more balanced than I. He is nearly 9 yrs. younger, and so, had a very different childhood than I did. That's not meant to imply a get-out-of-jail-free card for me, though. All the best, everyone, Deborah >snip< > Now that my mother is gone, my 93 yr old father has a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > off of. >snip< =========================== Good grief...Evelyn...it looks like you have another drama to deal with. Getting older really bites doesn't it? Hang in there... SignatureJohn Inzer PS: Just between you and I...keep an eye on the live in lady friend. >>snip< >> Now that my mother is gone, my 93 yr old father has a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Hang in there... Hi John, If the truth can be told, she is a real snake. None of us trust her, with good reason. She is 87 and is constantly maneuvering and making little dramas up. Her one living daughter doesn't speak to her for many years, and she is likewise on the "outs" with half her other relatives too. The most recent snit occurred when I called my 93 yr old dad on fathers day to wish him a happy fathers day. I had sent him a little package full of goodies, and of course nothing suited him and he complains about every gift any of us give him. We know he will do that, and we regard each gift as a write-off, because we know he'll be worse if we ignored holidays. He went into a half an hour tirade about how my 58 year old brother has no right to want a girlfriend in his life. Exasperated, but still being patient, I told him that it was about companionship, not anything else, and as an example mentioned how he had his friend as a companion too. He started to yell that she got paid for what she does, and suddenly the woman started crying and carrying on. I had no idea why it was that she was crying, but I assumed it was because he mentioned paying her, which she has always said it was a pittance for what she does. I was wrong. She was hearing half the conversation and imagined I was saying she was like a girlfriend or something like that. So my father told me to never call him again, and that I made him trouble with his lady friend etc. Neither of them realize that we know certain things about their relationship and none of us cares a bit. We are simply glad he has someone to occupy him. At least if they have each other, it takes the focus off us kids a bit. Need I mention that he is in better health than any one of "us kids?" It's pretty awful to have to deal with such emotional immaturity and constant "snittiness" at this age. There seems to be no end to the need for drama and troublemaking with these two, even when there are only the best intentions from all around them. I just can't imagine why this woman does any of what she does. She is essentially looking for a reason to move out, and in the process she keeps blaming us for her issues. We don't particularly care one way or the other whether she leaves or stays, we just want our father to be at peace, and to be at peace with him ourselves. In fact, we have all tried to do all we can to make her life easier and taken her part many times in hopes that he would make her life easier. My dad is very miserly and is obsessed with using as little water and other utilities to the point that it is quite irrational, while at the same time he keeps the place near 80 degrees all the time, so it is almost suffocating to be there. He won't allow her to use the washer and dryer in the house, and has disconnected the dryer altogether so it can't be used. So this lady has to drag her baskets of laundry to a laundromat. THAT is partly why she keeps threatening to move out, but she keeps blaming us kids and every other thing when she speaks to him. All of us have told him that he has to make her living conditions better, but he won't. There is no rationalizing any of it. It is like stepping on little fires all around us that keep igniting themselves. We get blamed for everything. We have tried talking to them both, to no avail, and the irrational stuff is just getting worse and worse. Both my brother and my sister have told me that I am "lucky" he doesn't want me to call him, and that I should enjoy the reprieve from the constant drama and rantings. Somehow that feeling of good fortune escapes me. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') Evelyn........Your post is heartbreaking. My Grandson just graduated from high school. His Dad was too drunk to go to a ceremony when his son received academic honors, he was also too drunk to attend the graduation two days later. His step dad (my daughter's husband) is the son of an alcoholic and his advice is "Cut him loose". That's hard for a child to do but it can be done. My son-in-law has done it and it works for him. Good luck .......June >>>snip< >>> Now that my mother is gone, my 93 yr old father has a [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > that I should enjoy the reprieve from the constant drama and rantings. > Somehow that feeling of good fortune escapes me. > Hi John, > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > from the constant drama and rantings. Somehow that > feeling of good fortune escapes me. ============================ Sad situation.... I hope you and your family can sort things out before it gets any worse. The live in companion sounds like a real troublemaker. John Inzer Erk. My former husband's grandfather hand built a teensy little cabin on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. It was little more than a couple of changing tables with an efficiency kitchen. Hubby's grandmother died. She had Alz., and grandfather cared for her for several yrs. Next yr., grandfather re-married his first wife. Ex-es parents came to "agreement" with "former" ex-wife re: lake cabin. Grandpa built it, we'll give you fair value for it, let us have first refusal. Next yr., grandfather died. You know -- first and third's wife's revenge. No lake cabin. It was sold out from under the family. Grandpa and first wife had been divorced for 55 yrs., remarried for one. Old people *can* be evil. LOL! En garde! Your story about verbal agreements being worth the air they float on brings up a good point for all of us. If we have assets that we want to go to a specific person, take the trouble to make it legal, put it in writing!! It happened in my best friend's family - the ancestral home was supposed to be left to her grandmother, since she looked after her parents to the end of their lives in their home, and not only raised her family there, but three of her grandchildren (my best friend was one of them). Unfortunately, it was not put in writing, just endless verbal promises, so when her parents died, the grandmother continued to live in the house, but their will left it in equal shares to all the sibs in the family. Once she died at 91, the house had to be sold, since no-one in the family could afford to buy the other family members out (and by that point, it was owned by quite a stack of cousins). It just tore my friend and her mother apart (both raised in the house) to see it pass from the family. The stupid part was the grandmother SHOULD have had the house - and her parents had pointedly promised that because she'd looked after them for the better part of 40 years despite a lot of financial struggle with no compensation, while her sibs did zip. Put it in your will!! See a lawyer and do it up right - including pieces of jewellry, antiques, artwork, whatever. Saves a LOT of stupidity and fighting after someone dies. My dad added a codicil itemizing household items between my brother and myself, and I can't tell you what a relief it was. My brother fought me tooth and nail over every detail he could pick nits over (I was the executor), but he couldn't argue with the will in terms of specifics of who got what piece of furniture. Mary G. > My dad added a codicil > itemizing household items between my brother and myself, and I can't > tell you what a relief it was. My father didn't want that to happen. Several weeks before he died, he spent a day in his shop, inventoried all his tools, and listed who got what. He took into account the skills and interests of each of us, as well as the usefullness (the sister that lived in a wilderness cabin got all hand tools, for example). One thing you will learn in a family health crisis like this is which family members you do and do not want to entrust with POAs. Some folks are just incapable of making health care decisions for others, or would make decisions that you wouldn't want. >> My dad added a codicil >> itemizing household items between my brother and myself, and I can't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that lived in a wilderness cabin got all hand tools, for > example). Not everyone has the foresite to know when they'll die to within a few weeks! In these cases, a codicil is probably preferable ! SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com > Not everyone has the foresite to know when they'll die to within a few > weeks! > In these cases, a codicil is probably preferable ! Mary laughs - or a will at all, period. I work for a large utility company and a couple of years back sitting in my "pod" was a very intelligent gentleman who was a project manager. He was a really excellent project manager with specialized skills which is why they kept renewing his contract despite his being 76 years old. The "pod" was sharing coffee one day and we all just about snorted our java out our noses when we discovered he had no will. Incidentally, he was married, his wife was not in great health, and they had a dependent disabled son living with them. No powers of attorney in place either. His excuse? He came from a family where long lives were common, and he just figured he'd have lots of warning before he kicked the bucket. Ah, to be so arrogantly SURE we know our own future. Arguing with him did nothing - and several of us were very blunt with him on the subject in terms of his need to protect his wife and son from his own unanticipated death, or illness or accident causing incapacitation. Like talking to the deaf! Clearly, his intent was to live to be 95, get diagnosed with something that provided him with plenty of time to get his affairs in order with mind intact, undistracted by pain, distress or distracting treatments, and then die with his boots on. M > Not everyone has the foresite to know when they'll die to within a few > weeks! > In these cases, a codicil is probably preferable ! Mary laughs - or a will at all, period. I work for a large utility company and a couple of years back sitting in my "pod" was a very intelligent gentleman who was a project manager. He was a really excellent project manager with specialized skills which is why they kept renewing his contract despite his being 76 years old. The "pod" was sharing coffee one day and we all just about snorted our java out our noses when we discovered he had no will. Incidentally, he was married, his wife was not in great health, and they had a dependent disabled son living with them. No powers of attorney in place either. His excuse? He came from a family where long lives were common, and he just figured he'd have lots of warning before he kicked the bucket. Ah, to be so arrogantly SURE we know our own future. Arguing with him did nothing - and several of us were very blunt with him on the subject in terms of his need to protect his wife and son from his own unanticipated death, or illness or accident causing incapacitation. Like talking to the deaf! Clearly, his intent was to live to be 95, get diagnosed with something that provided him with plenty of time to get his affairs in order with mind intact, undistracted by pain, distress or distracting treatments, and then die with his boots on. M |
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