Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / April 2006
Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's by 40%
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Roman Bystrianyk - 18 Apr 2006 16:33 GMT Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, Link: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article358352.ece
One of the largest studies of the impact of food and drink on mental decline has found that eating a Mediterranean diet cuts the risk of Alzheimer's disease by up to 40 per cent. The diet of southern France, Italy and Spain, rich in olive oil and red wine, is known to protect against heart disease and high blood pressure but this is the first time it has been shown to prevent Alzheimer's disease.
Researchers monitored 2,258 healthy, elderly people in New York who were part of a research project into ageing. Their medical and neurological history was assessed, they had standard physical and neurological tests and their cognitive function was measured every 18 months.
After four years, 262 of the participants were diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, more than one in ten of the total. Records of their diets during the study period showed that those who adhered most closely to the Mediterranean diet, eating lots of fruits, vegetables, pulses, some fish and alcohol with little dairy food and meat had the lowest risk of Alzheimer's, down by 39 to 40 per cent.
Those who only partially followed the diet had a reduced risk of 15 to 20 per cent compared to those who consumed the typical American diet of burgers and ice cream. ants were scored on a scale from 0 to 9 for their adherence to the Mediterranean diet and the risk of Alzheimer's fell around 10 per cent for every additional point they climbed up the scale.
Nikolaos Scarmeas and colleagues from Columbia University Medical Centre, whose findings are published in Annals of Neurology today, say: "We conclude that higher adherence to the Mediterranean diet is associated with a reduction in the risk of Alzheimer's disease."
There was a significant dose-response effect that remained even after correcting for age, gender, weight, smoking, education, and ethnicity, they say.
Previous studies have examined the link between cognitive decline and individual foods such as fruits, vegetables or oily fish but the findings have been conflicting. This is the first study to examine the effect of general dietary patterns, the authors say.
The Alzheimer's Disease Society in the UK said the finding added to the growing weight of evidence that diet and lifestyle are important risk factors for the disease.
Professor Clive Ballard, research director, said: "This study supports the idea that eating a combined diet of plenty of fruit, vegetables and fish might help to prevent dementia.
"It is likely that the reason for this is a combination of factors. It is thought that fruit and vegetables can help to lower blood pressure and that the anti-oxidants found in them, including vitamins C and E, could prevent heart disease, lessening the risk of dementia as well as directly affecting potentially brain-damaging free radicals. As we get older, eating a healthy diet including fresh fruit and vegetables, getting our blood pressure and cholesterol checked regularly, taking exercise and watching our weight may all turn out to be important ways of reducing our risk of developing dementia in later life."
The Mediterranean diet has been recommended by nutritionists for over 20 years and is credited with many health benefits. Recent research has shown that the diet may contribute to the health of the unborn child in the womb and that it helps in cutting cholesterol levels.
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 19 Apr 2006 01:36 GMT I'm very suspicious about studies like this, given what I know about the "diagnosis" of Alzheimer's. I know a lot of people who had the label of AD put on them with next to no diagnostic examination to confirm that was actually going on, even when their behaviour and progress profiles were markedly different than textbook AD.
Given that the only way to confirm AD is brain biopsy or examination of the brain at autopsy - how sure are we that these people didn't have some other kind of dementia? If, for example, many of those people had stroke risk factors - then yes, a better diet and reduction in blood pressure, for sure would help prevent dementia due to multi-infarct.
So, I don't disagree that taking good care of yourself can prevent some kinds of dementia, I have a problem concluding a good diet and healthy lifestyle prevents Alzheimer's in specific.
M.
Alan Meyer - 19 Apr 2006 02:47 GMT > I'm very suspicious about studies like this, given what I know about > the "diagnosis" of Alzheimer's. I know a lot of people who had the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the brain at autopsy - how sure are we that these people didn't have > some other kind of dementia? ...
I heard a lecture by a scientist at NIH who said that NIH studied a particular clinical trial of a treatment for some disease. They found that, amazingly, 2/3 of the people in the trial didn't actually have the disease. The researchers running the trial had referred people to the trial based on symptoms without doing the expensive and time consuming tests required to actually establish that the patients really had the disease in question.
There is a lot of sloppy science going on. Researchers are under a lot of pressure to publish something or lose their jobs. So they publish something.
Alan
Peter Bowditch - 20 Apr 2006 06:16 GMT >> I'm very suspicious about studies like this, given what I know about >> the "diagnosis" of Alzheimer's. I know a lot of people who had the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alan it's a bit hard to use only subjects with undeniably diagnosed Alzheimer's in an study, they being dead with dissected brains and all.
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Alan Meyer - 21 Apr 2006 20:42 GMT > ... > it's a bit hard to use only subjects with undeniably diagnosed > Alzheimer's in an study, they being dead with dissected brains and > all. > ... That's an excellent point. Researchers need to exercise due diligence to do what they can to qualify a person as having Alzheimer's. They can look for characteristic effects in the spinal fluid, they can try to rule out as many other causes of dementia as possible, and there may be some particular physiological and behavioral symptoms that correlate more closely with Alzheimer's than other diseases.
But even then, they can't be certain.
This situation is common in cancer research.
I know that many cancer trials are intended only for patients with local (non-metastatic) disease. But there's no way to know for sure that a patient is non-metastatic. So they do bone scans, xray the lungs, test for chemicals in the blood that are characteristic of the particular type of metastatic cancer, etc. This won't catch "micro-metastases" that will eventually develop and kill the patient, but it's the best anyone can do.
Similarly, we can't currently be certain that a person has Alzheimer's. But no researcher should accept someone who is acting dotty into an Alzheimer's trial without further testing to at least try to rule out everything else.
Alan
Caz - 19 Apr 2006 13:49 GMT > Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's > by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > against heart disease and high blood pressure but this is the first > time it has been shown to prevent Alzheimer's disease. <snip>
Like Mary and Alan, I have a problem with the integrity of these "studies". Apart from the reasons they both mentioned, if a Mediterranean diet did lower the risk of (let's say `any form of') dementia, it would result in demographical patterns in relation to dementia -- ie, an otherwise unexplained, much lower incidence of dementia in the Mediterranean countries. This is not the case. And surely the disease would be far more familial than it is? After all, most families eat the same sort of food. And a married couple in their 80s who've shared meals for over 50 years would share the same risk of developing dementia, despite not sharing genes. But there's no evidence to show spouses have an equal, or even similar, chance of developing dementia. So I'm not convinced.
Caz
Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 14:35 GMT >> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's >> by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Caz I think you are probably right about that. I can't see any connection with diet at all, just in my own family and friends. My father who is 93 had the worst diet imaginable all his life. Little fruit, lots of junk, poor diet in general no matter how you look at it. He is 93 and his mind is fine, with only a very little impairment. He had some serious vascular issues about two years ago, and has nearly lost the sight in one eye because of it, but he is still going strong. The man is a tiny bit forgetful sometimes and will occasionally repeat himself in conversation, but nothing like alzheimers by a long shot. He does his own taxes, and it is for him, a pretty complicated process. Heck, I don't even do my own taxes and they are far simpler than his.
My mother in law on the other hand, never smoked, ate very healthy fresh food, drank only minimally, yet she was only in her seventies when she began to exhibit symptoms, and by the age of 80 she was diagnosable, quite obviously impaired in her every day function, like with bill paying etc. and could no longer live alone.
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vernon - 19 Apr 2006 15:10 GMT >>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's >>> by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > obviously impaired in her every day function, like with bill paying etc. > and could no longer live alone. 1. You didn't define healthy or unhealthy food. 2. At 93 he had very little opportunity to have the imitation food we have now when he was in his teens through forties. 3. What, in your definition, is healthy fresh food?
Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 15:26 GMT >>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's >>>> by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > now when he was in his teens through forties. > 3. What, in your definition, is healthy fresh food? He always ate foods that were loaded with preservatives, no fruit, for the most part, but occasionally cooked fruit. In his youth he was half starved, living through the depression. He ate grits and pork fat as his only meal many times. Canned foods, fried foods, all were just fine. Heavily salted foods as well. Never heard of the term "organic" and in the 40's and 50's he sprayed DDT around the house liberally to kill mosquitoes and other flying bugs. He smoked for quite a few years only quitting in his late 40's. Moderate alcohol use, if at all. He ate the cheapest cuts of meat, the cheapest foods that could be found, even now, regardless of quality, price was the main criteria as to whether it was OK. And he is 93 and sharp as a tack. He has never ever once worried about preservatives, pesticides, fake food, junk food, genetically altered foods, or anything else. He salts liberally. His blood pressure is perfect, so is his heart, though he is now on statin drugs for his cholesterol, which ran into the 300's for years.
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vernon - 19 Apr 2006 15:38 GMT >>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's >>>>> by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > perfect, so is his heart, though he is now on statin drugs for his > cholesterol, which ran into the 300's for years. Well, What he ate at the time he ate it was better than we have it. You seem fixated with the concept of pork fat and fried foods.
1. Pork fat is not bad 2. Grits are outstanding. 3. DDT was not as bad as stated. 4. For your information, what is termed "organic" today was the standard up until 20 to 50 years ago, depending on where you lived.
Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 17:25 GMT >>>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >>>>>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > 4. For your information, what is termed "organic" today was the standard > up until 20 to 50 years ago, depending on where you lived. I am not fixated on anything, least of all pork fat. But your questions seem to reek of some particular agenda. He grew his own tomatoes every year, but used tons of pesticides and stuff on them. His house is built on top of a former dump, and the state where he lives is practically a toxic waste site. He definitely breaks the rules for people who imagine that what you eat determines your health. Your genetics and activity levels play a far bigger part, I am convinced. Diet may play a role for some people, but not all. He's one.
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 19:21 GMT >>>>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >>>>>>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > I am not fixated on anything, least of all pork fat. But your questions > seem to reek of some particular agenda. No fixation mentioned. Agenda? There is a ton of information out there from nonsense "facts" of a few years ago. A lot of totally wrong and misleading information that way too many MDs hang on to. In the year 2006, nothing beats education as opposed to magazine articles and uneducated Doctors.
> He grew his own tomatoes every year, but used tons of pesticides and stuff > on them. His house is built on top of a former dump, and the state where > he lives is practically a toxic waste site. He definitely breaks the > rules for people who imagine that what you eat determines your health. > Your genetics and activity levels play a far bigger part, I am convinced. > Diet may play a role for some people, but not all. He's one. Diet STILL plays a role. Genetics plays a lot. Eating habits also play a lot. Exercise is number one.
The flab excuse; "It's in my genes" The drug excuse; "It's in my genes" The alcoholic excuse; "It's in my genes" The overmedicated excuse; "It's in my genes" The high cholesterol excuse; "It's in my genes" The pot belly excuse; "It's in my genes"
Changing eating habits can modify health a TREMENDOUS amount. Every one of above can be "modified" even if exacerbated by genes.
But, you go right ahead and eat what you think you like. Be certain to have plenty of sugar. Extra soy can help you produce cancer quicker.
You just might look deeper into what he eats or especially has eaten without using whatever you have been told by whoever.
Oh, in case you didn't know, men have an entirely difference biological system than women. (typical man /typical woman)
Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 19:29 GMT >>>>>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >>>>>>>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > Oh, in case you didn't know, men have an entirely difference biological > system than women. (typical man /typical woman) I don't eat sugar. I don't make a point of eating soy products (other than a teryaki marinade for fish or other items). I know exactly what he eats and likes. He's vocal about it :-)
I may agree with you in that it is a balance.... and lucky genes.
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 20:28 GMT >>>>>>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >>>>>>>>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 140 lines] > > I may agree with you in that it is a balance.... and lucky genes. In other words; don't buy size 6 shoes if you wear 10.
David Wright - 20 Apr 2006 05:37 GMT >>>>>>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >>>>>>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] >play a far bigger part, I am convinced. Diet may play a role for some >people, but not all. He's one. Don't worry about vernon, Evelyn. He's not quite in the netloon category, but he's a self-important jerk who knows better than everyone but never provides any citations for his supposed "facts."
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Evelyn Ruut - 20 Apr 2006 11:57 GMT Diet may play a role for some
>>people, but not all. He's one.
> Don't worry about vernon, Evelyn. He's not quite in the netloon > category, but he's a self-important jerk who knows better than > everyone but never provides any citations for his supposed "facts." Hello David,
His self importance didn't phase me so much as his abusive language when I replied to him in reasonable terms. I spoke to him civilly, he did not reply to me in kind.
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth Alan Meyer - 19 Apr 2006 16:29 GMT > ... > He always ate foods that were loaded with preservatives, no fruit, for the most part, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > so is his heart, though he is now on statin drugs for his cholesterol, which ran into > the 300's for years. I'm coming over to his house tomorrow to arrange a gene transplant.
Then after that, I'm heading straight to MacDonalds for a Big Mac and large fries.
Alan
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 17:30 GMT >> ... >> He always ate foods that were loaded with preservatives, no fruit, for [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Then after that, I'm heading straight to MacDonalds for a > Big Mac and large fries. I understand your humor, but fries from McDonalds would be much more healthy if fried in animal fat rather than canola or peanut.
> Alan Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 17:31 GMT >> ... >> He always ate foods that were loaded with preservatives, no fruit, for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Alan LOL!
I wish I took after him more! I am more like my mom's side of the family who all get high blood pressure, diabetes, and die of strokes and heart disease in their fifties. Dad eats either Burger King or Mac D's once a week or so, (when there is a coupon in the paper :-)
The one thing I do attribute his excellent health and longevity to, is his physical activity level. Until recently he rode his bicycle around the block a few times every day, but when he was younger he was very active and worked hard all his life.
Other than a bit of prostate aggravation and minimal arthritic stuff, he is really in quite amazingly good health for a man his age. Again..... NO alzheimers. So much for the belief that it is "normal" aging. It is a disease, a real one, and nobody still knows what causes it.
Diet is nice to talk about, and everybody should eat as healthily as they can manage, but it won't give or protect you from alzheimers. At least I don't believe it will.
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 19:27 GMT >>> ... >>> He always ate foods that were loaded with preservatives, no fruit, for [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > can manage, but it won't give or protect you from alzheimers. At least I > don't believe it will. You have "beliefs" You follow those beliefs. "high blood pressure, diabetes, and die of strokes and heart disease in their fifties"
Once a week at BK or McD. WOW, it's a wonder he's not dead at 22. Maybe, just maybe, you could pay attention. You probably can't identify the ONLY thing that approaches unhealthy at either.
> Best Regards, > > Evelyn > (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') Evelyn Ruut - 19 Apr 2006 20:56 GMT > "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message It is
>> a disease, a real one, and nobody still knows what causes it. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > You probably can't identify the ONLY thing that approaches unhealthy at > either. Your reply above is just a little too cryptic for me to follow your logic.
Of course you have an agenda, and you have certain beliefs that certain foods either included or eliminated from the diet will help or cause certain reactions either positively or negatively.
I hate to tell you this, but we get loonies that come to this newsgroup on a regular basis with all sorts of cockamamy ideas about what causes alzheimers. One guy says it is iron, another says one must be a vegetarian. Another nut says it is because of ones ill fitting shoes. It really does tend to get tiresome.
Have you any idea what people who are caregivers for loved ones with the disease have to go through? How hard it is to watch your relative or loved one deteriorate till there is almost nothing left? The ethical decisions that have to be made? The challenges of coping with continual decline?
The last freaking thing we need is another nut with another theory.
Plonk!
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
iconoclast - 20 Apr 2006 00:42 GMT >> "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > a regular basis with all sorts of cockamamy ideas about what causes > alzheimers. I work for a doctors organization that is trying to get at the truth for Cancer, alzheimers, cardio. It is becasue they admit they are ignorant (I'm no smarter, just helping keep the "research" honest.)
> One guy says it is iron, another says one must be a vegetarian. Another > nut says it is because of ones ill fitting shoes. Ill fitting shoes? How stupid and self righteous can you get. The comment was about genetics and that everyone is different and thus required different answers. You apparently will never see alzheimers in your life because you already suffer from a bad case of adult autism.
> It really does tend to get tiresome. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > decisions that have to be made? The challenges of coping with continual > decline? So you just say there is nothing that can be done and sooth your conscience for your ignorance. NOBODY knows. That's just it
> The last freaking thing we need is another nut with another theory. So you couldn't stretch your knowledge of English to substitute another word for freaking, which spelled another way has the same totally meaningless inference. Just write DDUUUUUHHHH. You will accomplish the same communication.
Evelyn Ruut - 20 Apr 2006 00:44 GMT >>> "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > meaningless inference. Just write DDUUUUUHHHH. You will accomplish the > same communication. Plonk......
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Alan Meyer - 20 Apr 2006 01:33 GMT Take it easy friend.
Everybody here has problems. Everybody is doing the best they can. There's no need to get mad or call anyone any names.
Alan
Barb Terry - 20 Apr 2006 16:46 GMT Here we go again.If you don't like what someone writes then ignore it.Responses are not always needed.And where the heck did the word "Plonk" come from?Thats as irritating as some of the posts.They tell us to ignore rants from our kids and they will get over it.Lets do that here.Barb
Alan Meyer - 21 Apr 2006 20:31 GMT > Here we go again.If you don't like what someone writes then ignore > it.Responses are not always needed.And where the heck did the word > "Plonk" come from?Thats as irritating as some of the posts.They tell us > to ignore rants from our kids and they will get over it.Lets do that > here.Barb Good point.
"Plonk" is often used to mean, "I'm adding this name to my 'killfile'".
A "killfile" is a list of email addresses, from which, no messages are accepted. If you use Outlook Express as your news reader, you can block messages from someone by opening one of their messages and clicking "Message" / "Block sender". You can look at the list of blocked senders and change it by clicking "Tools" / "Message Rules" / "Blocked Senders List" from the main window.
When you "plonk" someone, you won't see any more messages from them.
Alan
Barb Terry - 22 Apr 2006 03:12 GMT ladylove77 - 20 Apr 2006 01:48 GMT You tell him, Evelyn! Gwen
>> "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Plonk! Evelyn Ruut - 20 Apr 2006 03:10 GMT > You tell him, Evelyn! > Gwen Thanks Gwen. I won't be seeing his posts anymore. Thank goodness for the "block sender" feature on my newsreader program!
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Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
>>> "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >> Plonk! worthog - 20 Apr 2006 07:21 GMT >> You tell him, Evelyn! >> Gwen [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >>> >>> Plonk! It's all their fault (parents, genes, etc) ANYTHING but self exacerbated.
vernon - 20 Apr 2006 07:19 GMT Another one who hides from just balanced facts.
It's all their fault (parents, genes, etc) ANYTHING but self exacerbated.
> You tell him, Evelyn! > Gwen [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> >> Plonk! Caz - 19 Apr 2006 15:45 GMT > >>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's > >>> by 40%", Independent, April 18, 2006, > >>> Link: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article358352.ece <snip>
> 2. At 93 he had very little opportunity to have the imitation food we have > now when he was in his teens through forties. <snip>
Sure, I agree, but that applies to everyone of that age. Yet dementia is *more* prevalent in older people. One in four people over the age of 85 have dementia of one sort or another. But to get back to the original topic, which is that a Mediterranean diet has "shown to cut risk of Alzheimer's by 40%" ... surely there would be a significantly lower rate of dementia in Mediterranean countries? There isn't. Yet those people eat a "Mediterranean diet" all their lives.
Caz
Caz
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 16:33 GMT >> >>> Jeremy Laurance, " Mediterranean diet shown to cut risk of >> >>> Alzheimer's [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Caz True, older people are the ones where it shows up, BUT, it is slowly moving down in age.
1. Older, older people had more exercise (proven to aid) 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. 3. The number one cause of loss of mental acuity is not only lack of physical exercise but lack of constant mental challenge. 4. Restricted blood flow is paramount.
Alzheimer's is a category and when it gets to the point where a biopsy shows anything, all that is really shown is a "physical" deterioration of the brain.
Alan Meyer - 19 Apr 2006 17:28 GMT ...
> 1. Older, older people had more exercise (proven to aid) > 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Alzheimer's is a category and when it gets to the point where a biopsy shows anything, > all that is really shown is a "physical" deterioration of the brain. Your points have some merit, but I wouldn't get too committed to them. Alzheimer's is not just any physical deterioration. It's a specific kind of deterioration involving the buildup of specific protein "plaques" and the tangling of neurofibers. There are many other kinds of brain deterioration that are not Alzheimer's Disease.
We don't yet know the complete biochemical pathway of the changes that lead to Alzheimer's, but there are a number of pieces of it that are now understood.
There is some evidence that physical and mental exercise either slow the onset of the disease, or help the patient manage the symptoms (it is not certain which), but there is also clear evidence of some people such as active scientists and at least one chess master who have gotten the disease.
As I understand it, cardio-vascular disease and restricted blood flow can be a factor in the onset of Alzheimer's, but is not always. The old theory of senility as "hardening of the arteries" turned out to be false.
Alan
vernon - 19 Apr 2006 19:36 GMT > ... >> 1. Older, older people had more exercise (proven to aid) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > neurofibers. There are many other kinds of brain deterioration > that are not Alzheimer's Disease. Some say so. Depends on the clinic and what they do for cure, or prevention. In any case, mental deterioration is hell for the relatives and friends more than the patient. Age seems to be a part of the equation.
> We don't yet know the complete biochemical pathway of the > changes that lead to Alzheimer's, but there are a number of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > evidence of some people such as active scientists and at > least one chess master who have gotten the disease. There are always a lot of exceptions, especially until the entire scenario of a disease is known. Activity, mental and physical "slow" the progress. Inactivity are "almost" certain ways to enhance the problem.
> As I understand it, cardio-vascular disease and restricted blood > flow can be a factor in the onset of Alzheimer's, but is not > always. The old theory of senility as "hardening of the arteries" > turned out to be false. For sure, for sure. Resticted oxygen to the brain is what I should have said and it can be from many causes. Interesting late finding (or late recognition) is that the precursor to cholesterol is needed for good brain function.
> Alan Caz - 19 Apr 2006 23:51 GMT <snip>
> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. A book?? You've lost me here. A "Mediterranean diet" is the type of foods which people from Mediterranean countries (France, Italy, etc ... you know, the countries round the Mediterranean sea) eat. How can what people have traditionally eaten for thousands of years be called "a book"?
You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you?
Lesanne - 19 Apr 2006 23:58 GMT I have to pop in and say my Mom (and the rest of the family) have eaten this way for life. My Dad was very interested in diet and health in relation to tooth decay. We just sort of accidentally evolved into eating by the Mediterranean type of diet. Mom who has Alzheimer's of course, is in fabulous health at age 92. We decided to not treat anything she got (such as infections, etc) last year when the dementia really began to mess with her quality of life. Guess what? She gets something every now and then, but her superior state of health (no doubt from the diet, as well as her exercise program) causes her to sail right through those things without any antibiotics or other medications. Oh Joy! The mind is mush, but the body is IRONCLAD. How lucky for her.
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>> > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you? vernon - 20 Apr 2006 00:25 GMT > <snip> >> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you? Yes, I know what the book says. I have also lived there.
Peter Bowditch - 20 Apr 2006 06:26 GMT ><snip> >> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you? vern knows everything. he has TWO "earned" PhDs, he helped NASA with management problems, he fixed the manufacturing at Intel, he invented computer tape, he has read the Bible (both testaments) twenty times, he consulted with archeologists about biblical history while he was doing oil exploration, he knows for a fact which languages Jesus spoke (and he knows that Jesus dictated the gospels), he is an expert on the use of massive doses of Vitamin C to cure everything (but strangely, in this thread, not Alzheimer's), he is a polymath, a polyglot, and a polykook.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew - 20 Apr 2006 07:40 GMT belittling as usual
<snip>
>><snip> >>> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you? Peter Bowditch - 20 Apr 2006 08:06 GMT >belittling as usual Jan must have forgotten calling me "BOWSHIT", Yes, she even used capitals to shout it.
OK, Jan. tell us how to find a group of people who have been absolutely proven to be suffering from Alzheimer's and then get them to sign informed consent forms to be subjects in a medical trial.
Oh, I'm sorry, it is "belittling" to point out that this is impossible because they would all probably die from the brain dissections needed for the absolute diagnoses.
><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> >>>You're not one of those newsgroup nutters, are you? Look at it! remember how she accused me of belittling.
Of course, I have pointed out that with variations on my name like "i like to f.ck dead rats-ditch (as listed at http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/onews/statsnames.htm), someone calling me "bowshit" just makes me laugh at their childish lack of imagination.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Evelyn Ruut - 20 Apr 2006 12:00 GMT >><snip> >>> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > in this thread, not Alzheimer's), he is a polymath, a polyglot, and a > polykook. LOL! ......and as I discovered, he instantly becomes enraged if you dare to question any of his pet theories, spewing forth with profanity.
 Signature
Best Regards,
Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
BrentB - 20 Apr 2006 14:01 GMT For those interested in the probable cause of Alzheimer's
Borrelia burgdorferi persists in the brain in chronic lyme neuroborreliosis and may be associated with Alzheimer disease.
Miklossy J, Khalili K, Gern L, Ericson RL, Darekar P, Bolle L, Hurlimann J, Paster BJ.
University Institute of Pathology, Division of Neuropathology, University Medical School (CHUV), 1011, Lausanne, Switzerland. judmik@telus.net
The cause, or causes, of the vast majority of Alzheimer's disease cases are unknown. A number of contributing factors have been postulated, including infection. It has long been known that the spirochete Treponema pallidum, which is the infective agent for syphilis, can in its late stages cause dementia, chronic inflammation, cortical atrophy and amyloid deposition. Spirochetes of unidentified types and strains have previously been observed in the blood, CSF and brain of 14 AD patients tested and absent in 13 controls. In three of these AD cases spirochetes were grown in a medium selective for Borrelia burgdorferi. In the present study, the phylogenetic analysis of these spirochetes was made. Positive identification of the agent as Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto was based on genetic and molecular analyses. Borrelia antigens and genes were co-localized with beta-amyloid deposits in these AD cases. The data indicate that Borrelia burgdorferi may persist in the brain and be associated with amyloid plaques in AD. They suggest that these spirochetes, perhaps in an analogous fashion to Treponema pallidum, may contribute to dementia, cortical atrophy and amyloid deposition. Further in vitro and in vivo studies may bring more insight into the potential role of spirochetes in AD.
PMID: 15665404 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Abx are not the answer against borrelia (by themselves) Silver nanoparticles have proven effects and should be used. Add minocyline or other abx suggested by your doc if needed. I've come back from the dead with a Alzheimer's like disease and depending on the damage many alzheimer's might have the same chance. best of luck
vernon - 20 Apr 2006 14:52 GMT > For those interested in the probable cause of Alzheimer's > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The cause, or causes, of the vast majority of Alzheimer's disease cases > are unknown. Careful, I have stated that a few times and it is classed as a "pet" theory. Good post.
profanity - 20 Apr 2006 14:49 GMT >>><snip> >>>> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> in this thread, not Alzheimer's), he is a polymath, a polyglot, and a >> polykook. Bowditch the outright liar. OR he is incapable of reading.
> LOL! ......and as I discovered, he instantly becomes enraged if you dare > to question any of his pet theories, spewing forth with profanity. So both you and Bowditch (very few do not have him killfiled) love avoiding truth.
I have NEVER used profanity except to repeat EXACTLY the words you use in direct response.
I have NEVER, in conversation with you stated any pet theories.
I have only stated that few know answers and to remain open.
To YOU that is some sort of pet theory.
Both you and Bowditch need to get an education, a basic education and quit lying.
Peter Bowditch - 21 Apr 2006 00:27 GMT >>>><snip> >>>>> 2. The Mediterranean diet is nothing more than a book. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Bowditch the outright liar. OR he is incapable of reading. Point out the lies in what I said, vern. Oh, that's right - you don't do evidence.
>> LOL! ......and as I discovered, he instantly becomes enraged if you dare >> to question any of his pet theories, spewing forth with profanity. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Both you and Bowditch need to get an education, a basic education and quit >lying. What's your real name, vern? How about you start telling all the truth.
Do you have a special keyboard macro to type "get an education"? I ask because you use the phrase so often when running away from a discussion.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Anthony Shipley - 20 Apr 2006 04:55 GMT >I think you are probably right about that. I can't see any connection with >diet at all, just in my own family and friends. You shouldn't expect to! Any statistical study would need many, many more subjects to make any such finding. I would guess --in ignorance--some hundreds at least.
anthony shipley
Run away with me; I can make you unhappy.
tamparocks29@yahoo.com - 20 Apr 2006 21:11 GMT Yes roman. I just watched a report about this subject. You can check out the video at: http://www.groundhog.tv/apps/editor/staticplayer.jsp?clip=1145563698900.wmv"><img src="
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