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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / January 2006

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Now he won't talk to me or see me :(

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owliz@hotmail.com - 05 Jan 2006 00:04 GMT
Hi All

The advice and support I have been receiving since I joined this group
has been wonderful, and it is so nice to see that everyone is getting
that sort of support from members here. I will also try to be as
supportive of others here as I can.

>From my previous posting discussig the fact that my husband has Lewy
Body dementia, I have since spoken to the specialist and they really so
not seem to be sure if that is a correct diagnosis, and I am actually
wondering if it is Picks disease based on the symptoms he shows. They
have decised that he does have Parkinson's regardless of the Lewy Body,
which I know affects the meds they can give him.

However no matter what tag there is he definitely has frontal lobe
atrophy and behavioural problems that can go with that.

They have detoxed him off valium (15mg per night) and this is the first
time since I have known him, 25 years, that he is not taking a benzo.

Detox and rationisation of his meds will probably help at least with
the confusion.

So now he will not talk to me or see me. He tells me to #$%^ off if I
go near him, which is really hard, although it helps keep me strong in
my decision to place him in a nursing home or whatever is available.

There was talk from the doctors that he was so much improved he could
come home and I told them I would not even contemplate that while he
was still so agressive and his behaviour was inapproriate. I told them
I have no desire to be a martyr.

Apart from that they have said it would only be a while before I would
need to place him, they are talking a few months I think.

I am thinking even if I could cope with him for a few months, would it
be crueler to bring him home and then move him again? Plus there would
be the drama of him having to leave here and I would probably have to
call the Police to do that so I think it would be kinder to keep him in
the hospital until they can find a place for him.

They seem to think it would be a few weeks at most.

It makes it hard that he won't talk to me (because I put him there and
will not provide the means for him to get out) but I do not wish to
cause him any further anger etc so I have stayed away from him for a
while. He can call me if he wants to.

While I do not want to seem like I am punishing him, as I know he
cannot help what he says etc, I am trying to do the right  thing.

Damned if I do and damned if I don't so I have to play it by ear and
would appreciate the views of those who have had any similar problem.

Thanks
Liz (Sydney Australia)
Evelyn Ruut - 05 Jan 2006 00:35 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Thanks
> Liz (Sydney Australia)

Liz if you are asking my opinion, I think it is definitely harder to move
someone twice.   It is hard enough to adjust to a new situation, but to ask
them to do it twice, it might be harder.   Once we got my mother in law out
of her house, we never once brought her back there again, because we knew
we'd need to call out the police and who knows what else, to get her back
out of there.

Your husband longs for home, but home is not a place, it is a state of mind
and a time when he was "normal" in the past, not a building.   For him
'home' is being in control of himself again, not an address.

Also, considering the aggression he is showing, and the fact you know he is
not in his right mind, you don't know what he could do and not really
understand it.   You are trying so hard to be conscientious about it, that
you may actually be placing yourself in danger by thinking about taking him
home.

One woman who used to post here was a tiny lady whose husband had been a
State trooper before he became ill.   She was subjected to all sorts of
difficulties by this guy.  He would defecate in his clothing and not allow
her to clean him, and he'd hit her too from time to time.   She went through
hell, but she would not place him no matter what.   He finally passed away,
but she had an awful time of it till then.

This illness affects people differently.   Some are gentle and kind
throughout and even to the very end.   Others are not.   Medications affect
people differently too.   Sometimes the violence and agitation are brought
under good control with the right meds, and sometimes they are not.   From
what I have read here over the last few years, there are certain forms of
dementia that are sort of a wild card, and you never know what will result.
The part of the brain that controls inhibitions and such, has deteriorated
first.

I do hope you realize that whatever delusion he is experiencing in his
illness is what is making him have this antipathy towards you.   I hope you
can be strong and make whatever decisions you need to in order to keep him
safe and you safe.   In any case if I were you, I wouldn't even begin to
think of the possibility of taking him home under the present circumstances.
You have no idea when this delusion will start again, even if they did
manage to get it under control.

If I were you I would rely very strongly on the advice of trained
professionals, but I would also think very carefully before bringing a large
male person with that kind of delusional thing going on into the house where
I would be the only one caring for him.

Good luck in whatever you decide,

Evelyn
owliz@hotmail.com - 05 Jan 2006 02:35 GMT
Hi Evelyn

Based on what his doctors are saying and the advice I have had from
this group and others I am pretty much decided to leave him where he is
until there is a placement for him

Whenever I start to feel like maybe I can, I come back here and reread
the postings and it helps make my resolve that much stronger.

Because of his agroaphobia the lack of freedom he had may actually work
in his favour as he was pretty much restricted to our home and was not
interested in gardening etc so being inside won't be that hard. Because
he has had difficulty following TV etc his focus has been mainly on
music clips and he will be able to have is TV and DVD etc in his room
in a nursing home, I assume.

So once he is settled I am hoping he will actually be happier there as
he will have people all around him that he can interact with and become
friends with.

I think you are right about moving him twice so I think I will have to
leave him where he is until we find a placement.

I just wish he would allow us to spend some quality time together, or
rather I wish his illness would as I know it is that which makes him
hostile to me at the moment.

Thanks for you advice, I appreciate it

Liz
augustwestern - 05 Jan 2006 02:04 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Thanks
> Liz (Sydney Australia)

Hi Liz,

If he wasn't detoxed very slowly off the valium (at least 4-6 weeks taper
from 15mg daily) then he might be having delayed withdrawal symptoms. These
WDs can manifest as behavior problems of every sort including hostility. He
might be holding you or his Drs responsible for his being detoxed and in his
perception thinking that things are worse for him without the valium. With a
25 yr benzo history, these WDs might last quite a while, months or longer.

No easy answers.   AW
owliz@hotmail.com - 05 Jan 2006 02:25 GMT
Hi Augustwestern

I agree re the detox, I wasn't really happy that they did it so
quickly. On his first day there they reduced the valium from 15mg daily
to 10mg daily and they also reduced the xanax from 6mg daily to 3 mg
daily.

I did speak to the doctors about his anxiety and his agitation and the
fact that I thought it was too much too soon, however they seemed to
think otherwise and in the meantime they have cut the valium out all
together but I think he is still on the 3mg of xanax daily. I know that
they have increased the Seroquel from his starting point of 25mg per
day to at least 75mg.

It is a possibilty that the doctors are detoxing him to be able to sort
out what is exactly wrong with him and what his capabilities are, but
they haven't really said much to me.

I can only wait and see what will happen but even placed in a nursing
home they will need to address that behaviour or I probably will not
even be able to visit him for a while.

Liz

> Hi Liz,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> No easy answers.   AW
Tumbleweed - 05 Jan 2006 06:16 GMT
> Hi Augustwestern
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Liz

Liz, there is no way you can manage that kind of changing drug regime at
home is there, plus if its wrong one day the repercussions on you could be
serious whereas in the hospital they can manage that.

I dont know if this applies in Oz, but one other factor to consider; If he
is at hospital he is using a bed and there is pressure on the 'authorities'
to help you find a home for him. If he's at home, there is less or no
pressure on them to do anything.

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

augustwestern - 06 Jan 2006 19:42 GMT
> Hi Augustwestern
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Liz

Hi Liz,  Is his Dr's goal to get your husband off all benzos then reevaluate
his mental status?

I didn't know about the zanax also. It would be a bear for even a healthy
person to WD from that intake level and not have some serious behavior
problems. It would have been easier on your husband if they has detoxed him
from the zanax first and then tapered down the valium because zanax has a
much shorter half life and this will cause more serious WD problems.

You are going to have a rough time. My thoughts will be with you. I've been
so fortunate that my LO's decline has been slow and fairly steady as she
ages and not the quick decline and extreme problems that some members have
to deal with.

btw- We cked my LO's BP last night and (no BP meds ever) it was 117/72 and
p.67. My BP or pulse was never that low.

AW
Evelyn Ruut - 06 Jan 2006 22:03 GMT
>> Hi Augustwestern
>>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> AW

Ida always had such great BP numbers too.   Besides that she maintained
great flexibility and strength.   She had been a very healthy person all her
life.   It was only at the very end that she lost that terrific good health.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

augustwestern - 07 Jan 2006 07:24 GMT
> > btw- We cked my LO's BP last night and (no BP meds ever) it was 117/72 and
> > p.67. My BP or pulse was never that low.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Evelyn
> (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

About 5yrs ago when my LO (age 83 at the time) was already far into dementia
but could go out fairly easily if one of us went with her, my wife took her
to a beginning yoga class. My wife struggled thru the positions and was left
very sore. My MIL, who has always been flexible, could do all the simpler
poses and wasn't even sore. When asked if she wanted to go back, she said
no, that yoga wasn't for her because it was boring. Because of osteoporosis
we have to really limit her activities now, but even into her 80s we had to
stop her from climbing on chairs and step ladders and getting down on her
knees. She didn't remember breaking her hip or her back problems so she
didn't have any fears about her climbing.   AW
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jan 2006 14:11 GMT
>> > btw- We cked my LO's BP last night and (no BP meds ever) it was 117/72
> and
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> knees. She didn't remember breaking her hip or her back problems so she
> didn't have any fears about her climbing.   AW

Amazing, isn't it....

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

June - 07 Jan 2006 15:51 GMT
> Ida always had such great BP numbers too.   Besides that she maintained
> great flexibility and strength.   She had been a very healthy person all
> her life.   It was only at the very end that she lost that terrific good
> health.

Sounds like my MIL,  we were all visiting at the nursing home the day before
she died when the nurse came in and took her vital signs.   122/79.   Her
daughters were amazed at the number especially since they have BP problems.
But like I said...she passed away the next day at the age of 101......June
Evelyn Ruut - 07 Jan 2006 16:01 GMT
>> Ida always had such great BP numbers too.   Besides that she maintained
>> great flexibility and strength.   She had been a very healthy person all
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> problems. But like I said...she passed away the next day at the age of
> 101......June

Wow!   101..... Amazing longevity.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

carolinasongbird@gmail.com - 05 Jan 2006 02:33 GMT
Liz,

I wondered about Pick's when you first described his symptoms. We had a
gentleman (and I use the term advisedly) who was the well-beloved
principal of a local high school. He started groping and making sexual
overtures to staff members (and maybe students too though I never heard
tell of that). He was quickly put on unpaid leave while his wife kept
saying something had to be wrong with him. He became increasingly
paranoid and explosive at home. Finally he got a Pick's diagnosis, and
he was quickly moved to an AL facility where his medications could be
closely monitored.

What's really sad is that as the disease progressed, he lost the
aggressiveness and became a friendly genial man who had no idea who you
were but assumed you were a former student. His former students and
teachers made him the most-visited resident there, and when he
eventually died, the biggest church in town was overflowing.

My two cents? He's going to be mad at you either way, so opt for
placement, which keeps both of you safe. Don't forget, just as you
could take him home and then place him, you could place him and then
bring him home if circumstances change. No decision is forever at this
point. But at this time it sounds like the best option is to give him
as much staffing as possible to take care of him while he gets sorted
out. As one person -- you're outmanned. Let them do the "heavy lifting"
of 24 hours a day -- you be the advocate who deals with the doctor.

Songbird
Dennis P. Harris - 05 Jan 2006 05:00 GMT
> So now he will not talk to me or see me. He tells me to #$%^ off if I
> go near him, which is really hard, although it helps keep me strong in
> my decision to place him in a nursing home or whatever is available.

Just keep remembering that IT'S NOT HIM, IT'S THE DISEASE.  His
brain is damaged.
Dennis P. Harris - 05 Jan 2006 05:01 GMT
> I am thinking even if I could cope with him for a few months, would it
> be crueler to bring him home and then move him again?

Yes.
Dancing Queen - 06 Jan 2006 08:13 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> Thanks
> Liz (Sydney Australia)

hi liz

i think you are doing the right thing, as the other posters suggest.  If you
were having a coffee with a girlfriend and she put all that to you re her
husband, i bet you'd advise the same.  i guess it shows your love for him
that you have given it so much thought.

are there any other family members that can be the good guy, (ie you are the
'bad guy') so at least he can have some non agro quiality time with someone?
sounds like you are going to (unfairly) cop his anger for a while.

any indication of how long until they find him somewhere?

chris (in melb - FIL has early Alz)
 
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