Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2005
GRRRRRRRRRR
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Boydette - 20 Jul 2005 22:52 GMT I just went off on my mom I JUST WENT OFF ON MY MOM She makes me beyond CRAZY!!! Oh geez i know I shouldnt do this cause she aint in her right mind...but she makes me so ANGRY and I AM NOT in my right mind either....I will feel so good and call her and then she takes everything I say even when I am trying to help her and TWISTS it....I am so trying to remember she is demented but GD it she still knows how to push my buttons....Sometimes I think I need to just write her off and let the chips fall where they may...I AM THE ONLY ONE shes got (sis is totally ignoring her and NOT taking care of business either) and yet she abuses the hell out of me....always has and obviously always will...... I feel like I am 12 yrs old every time she starts her sh.t...I HATE the way she makes me feel!!....grrrrrrr
Living is easy with eyes closed
Life is what happens while youre busy making other plans
John Winston Lennon 1940-1980
Lee - 21 Jul 2005 01:44 GMT it's times like that that dementia can be a blessing, eh? (yes, I am Canadian as a matter of fact LOL) ..... She won't remember ...
I know that when I get angry at my MIL, it bothers me for a LOT longer than it does her.... if I can take a deep breath and just start over, she gets over it a whole lot faster (easier said than done, of course!)
must be awfully tempting to just cut and run .... and maybe that is exactly what you should do, for your own sake .... but seems to me that the fact that you're still trying, and still putting up with her means that you have a whole lot more resources than maybe even you know ....
all any of us can do is our best... and we all have limits...
>I just went off on my mom > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > John Winston Lennon 1940-1980 Anthony Shipley - 21 Jul 2005 06:09 GMT >I just went off on my mom > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >like I am 12 yrs old every time she starts her sh.t...I HATE the way she >makes me feel!!....grrrrrrr Boydette, you have my sympathies. It reminds me of how I treat my wife.
Her major problem, no actually, one of her many failures is to still think of me as a normal human being and responds to me as such. Thus, when I am forever saying, "I've seen this program already" she'll treat me as if I didn't have AZ and get a bit frustrated.
It might be that, similarly, she is accurately--for her--repeating her encounters and feelings to you but that they are fantasies and she is not recognising it.
I don't think I could really imaging what it's like to be in your or my wife's position. It might be that both of you need a great big furry hat that you can wear to remind you when you are dealing with la la world (i.e. us) and don't have to treat it as real.
Just for my information, do you think of her as a normal grownup? If so, would it help to create a mental picture of her as a clown, a puppy or something else? Sounds silly, even to me, but maybe some sort of dislocation might allow the person you love(d) to become more like a young innocent toddler -- pretty much what we become, sigh!
Just on a different topic, does anybody know if anybody from--working for--Alzheimer's Assoc read this group? I was at a focus group session a couple of days ago which had the attention of bringing the needs of sufferers to our federal parliamentary representatives. Somewhere along the way, during one of the breaks, somebody raised the question that AA seemed to be unwilling to use AD sufferers as volunteers. The idea of that spread like wildfire and seemed to outrage many.
I had personally raised the question before with some of the staff but was brushed off without any response. It's become a bit of an obsession for me because I feel the greatest indignity of this disease is that we sufferers suffer a loss of dignity by too many people deciding what we should or should not be doing without any notification or by your leave.
I must admit that there weren't any adverts. I had noticed that the website seemed to be--like so many current ones--designed for the interest of the graphic designers (to add to their portfolio) instead of the interest of the intended readership. In this case, that would be those with failing capabilities or poor eyesight due to advancing age. Let's not be unnecessarily generous, however! Even those without AD could have difficulty navigating the site.
For example, look at my local one (albeit obviously having the same look and feel of the other Australian ones) at http://www.alzheimers.asn.au/index.php?page=viewStory&id=8148
The text of the links along the top are all embedded within a blue graphic. Thus when you increase the size to make it larger, the text actually becomes blurrier. My eyesight is reasonable, but I believe many other would have difficulties.
For those of us using the popular Opera browser (which makes it VERY easy to change the text size (just use the + and - keys on the numeric keypad). Unfortunately, the authors (sic) have coded the page such that the menu system goes bananas and the page becomes unreadable. I've been using Opera for several years not and have _never before_ encountered such a bizarre display.
Adobe Acrobat is not a particularly bad product. When, however, a website has the occasional Acrobat file it becomes a nuisance. In the case of Alzheimer's readers, both sufferers and carers are less likely to habe Acrobat installed. I haven't yet explored the entire site, but all the PDF files I've seen could be quite adequately replaced by normal HTML markup. I suggest this is foolish and is likely to preclude older visitors from accessing the information on the site.
Another thing that makes me splutter!
The World Wide Web Consortium that created and defined the operation of the web (give me some leeway regarding the line above, please) did a wonderful job. Sadly, too much leeway was allowed.
In the old days, links to other pages were clearly visible and standardised. These days, anything goes. Thus, at http://www.alzheimers.asn.au/index.php?page=viewStory&id=8148, "What is Dementia?" is a link but it's marked as a header and the poor reader now has to tab or use the mouse to determine whether or not "What is Dementia?" is just emphasised or is a header. Not only that, but the contrast between the black text of the message text and the header is hardly evident. And why, oh why, oh why does the colour (Aussie spelling) of the burgundy titles change to red when the mouse is moved over them?
Could it be because the authors ignored the World Wide Web Consortium's Web Standards and Guidelines (http://www.w3.org/Consortium/)?
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Lee - 21 Jul 2005 07:38 GMT Anthony... do you mind if I scoop what you've written here??? Would like to use it in the web development class I teach if you have no objections - I can tell my students how important it is to design sites that are usable for ALL users... but I suspect they'd ~listen~ to you far more than they do me.
>>I just went off on my mom >> [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] > > Mod as a hooter! Anthony Shipley - 21 Jul 2005 09:17 GMT >Anthony... do you mind if I scoop what you've written here??? Would like to >use it in the web development class I teach if you have no objections - I >can tell my students how important it is to design sites that are usable for >ALL users... but I suspect they'd ~listen~ to you far more than they do me. Lee, I'd be very happy to have you do so! I'd also be interested in receiving their reactions and comments and knowing how things turned out.
Maybe we could start "The Reader school of Writing" and make a million :-)
regards
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Dennis P. Harris - 21 Jul 2005 08:01 GMT > Adobe Acrobat is not a particularly bad product. When, however, a website has > the occasional Acrobat file it becomes a nuisance. In the case of Alzheimer's > readers, both sufferers and carers are less likely to habe Acrobat installed. I > haven't yet explored the entire site, but all the PDF files I've seen could be > quite adequately replaced by normal HTML markup. I suggest this is foolish and > is likely to preclude older visitors from accessing the information on the site. i takes about 3 minutes to install. just do it and get over it.
Boydette - 23 Jul 2005 06:38 GMT Dennis sometimes I really find you rude and uncaring....if you have experienced a LO with AZ then how can you be so judgmental???...Why are you here? to insult people who are already confused and in pain?......I dont understand what this poster is talking about but I was always taught if you dont have nothing nice to say then dont say nothing...nothing would have been better in this case...and since I irritate you so much I have a question....... why do you keep responding? I thought this was a place to do just that...vent and go on with reality....how can you be so mean? It doesnt help anyone for you to get an attitude just because your suggestions dont fit into my particular situation...I am a child of alcoholics and lived with addicts of all kinds enabling and co dependant all my life this is hard to overcome...plus my own foibles....you better get off that high horse before somebody knocks you off....B NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net (Dennis P. Harris)
<astech@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Adobe Acrobat is not a particularly bad product. When, however, a website has the occasional Acrobat file it becomes a nuisance. In the case of Alzheimer's readers, both sufferers and carers are less likely to habe Acrobat installed. I haven't yet explored the entire site, but all the PDF files I've seen could be quite adequately replaced by normal HTML markup. I suggest this is foolish and is likely to preclude older visitors from accessing the information on the site. i takes about 3 minutes to install. just do it and get over it.
My dad
I dont like idiots and I dont associate with them but the few I know are pretty nice guys
Tumbleweed - 21 Jul 2005 08:12 GMT <snip>
> Adobe Acrobat is not a particularly bad product. When, however, a website > has [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > is likely to preclude older visitors from accessing the information on the > site. there is enough Adobe around its plainly dumb not to install it. For anyone looking at medical info (like an Az carer might) there will be lots of documents in pdf format so they should be *more* likely to need it. And it only takes a couple of clicks to do it. Just install it.
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Anthony Shipley - 21 Jul 2005 09:51 GMT >there is enough Adobe around its plainly dumb not to install it. For anyone >looking at medical info (like an Az carer might) there will be lots of >documents in pdf format so they should be *more* likely to need it. And it >only takes a couple of clicks to do it. Just install it. I personally have no problem with installing it (for myself). I was writing from the point of aged people and especially those with Alzheimer's.
From my experience over many years, it has no unique value other than - Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Tumbleweed - 21 Jul 2005 13:49 GMT >>there is enough Adobe around its plainly dumb not to install it. For >>anyone [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > From my experience over many years, it has no unique value other than Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going to encounter it so frequently its peverse not to install it. And its no more difficult to install (a lot less probably) than most other products, so I dont see any reason why a carer should have special reasons for not installing it, such as being not very good with PC's. Indeed, if they dont install it they will likely have more problems than if they do.
I dont disagree that there may be occasions where a doc isnt needed to be in pdf format as such, but there may be many reasons why, for example maybe that same doc is also required as a printed brochure. So on that Az page you pointed to, someone could print that pdf easily, either for themselves, or for someone who doesnt have a PC. If it was html it would likely print with the one side cut off for example and certainly the formatting and layout would be subject to the whims of their PC. With Adobe it will look the same every time on every PC. So the example you give is actually a good case where it helps, not hinders, because even people who dont have a PC can still access it via the medium of print, much more difficult with html documents.
 Signature Tumbleweed
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Anthony Shipley - 22 Jul 2005 01:34 GMT >Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going to >encounter it so frequently its peverse not to install it. I'm well aware of its place in tecnical documentation etc. and have no argument with its use in tecnical environments.
However, when it contains text only, especially text with no markup at all, I believe it's only a fool who would introduce its use across the internet.
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Lee - 22 Jul 2005 01:52 GMT I second that
>>Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going >>to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Mod as a hooter! Anthony Shipley - 22 Jul 2005 02:39 GMT >I'm well aware of its place in tecnical documentation etc. and have no argument >with its use in tecnical environments. > >However, when it contains text only, especially text with no markup at all, I >believe it's only a fool who would introduce its use across the internet. Sorry about the typos; that PDF seems to have swallowed my "h"s.
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Dennis P. Harris - 22 Jul 2005 06:38 GMT > I'm well aware of its place in tecnical documentation etc. and have no argument > with its use in tecnical environments. > > However, when it contains text only, especially text with no markup at all, I > believe it's only a fool who would introduce its use across the internet. it has a number of advantages, especially since most PDFs can't be easily modified.
Tumbleweed - 22 Jul 2005 07:10 GMT >>Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going >>to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > all, I > believe it's only a fool who would introduce its use across the internet. What about a fool who wanted a text-only document to be laid out and look (and print) exactly the same on all PC's irrespective of the fonts available (try getting your mythical PC-illiterate to find and download new fonts!) or the printers idiosyncrasies? Would that be a fool, or would the fool be the person who hadn't considered that? Of course, a good tool may be misused by anyone, but that doesn't invalidate the tools usefulness.
The Az site you pointed us to was a good use of pdf if you believe the intention is that those pdfs would also be printed (clearly the case ). They may even have originally been desinged for printing and their availability on the web site a bonus or their chnaging to html pointless. It actually makes that web site *more* acessible than were they to have followed your prompting and only used html, because those sections of it can be printed off for later use, and/or for people who dont have a PC, *and they will always look the same* and won't have bits clipped off, broken up pages and so forth.
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Anthony Shipley - 22 Jul 2005 08:07 GMT >The Az site you pointed us to was a good use of pdf if you believe the >intention is that those pdfs would also be printed (clearly the case ). They [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >always look the same* and won't have bits clipped off, broken up pages and >so forth. Sigh!
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Evelyn Ruut - 22 Jul 2005 13:34 GMT >>>Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going >>>to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > *and they will always look the same* and won't have bits clipped off, > broken up pages and so forth. I agree with you Tumbleweed. I am all for anything that keeps PC use simple, but the acrobat reader is a good tool, and even I have had no problems with it. Certain documents and even online catalogs come that way. They always print well and are easy to use.
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(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Boydette - 23 Jul 2005 06:42 GMT WTH?? how did this turn into a conversation about computer stuff...I came in and saw a whole thread and only two responses to my original message...having web tv yall lost me on the first sentence...LOL
My dad
I dont like idiots and I dont associate with them but the few I know are pretty nice guys
Anthony Shipley - 23 Jul 2005 07:35 GMT >WTH?? how did this turn into a conversation about computer stuff...I >came in and saw a whole thread and only two responses to my original >message...having web tv yall lost me on the first sentence...LOL Sorry about all that; didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition :-)
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Evelyn Ruut - 23 Jul 2005 11:59 GMT > WTH?? how did this turn into a conversation about computer stuff...I > came in and saw a whole thread and only two responses to my original > message...having web tv yall lost me on the first sentence...LOL Hi Boydette,
This is usenet after all, and it is something that happens often. Entire threads change their subject matter without changing the original name of the thread, unless someone takes the trouble to deliberately change it. Not worth getting upset about, it is just like a conversation...... it can change subject matter in mid stream too.
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Best Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Songbird - 22 Jul 2005 14:59 GMT >>>Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going >>>to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > *and they will always look the same* and won't have bits clipped off, > broken up pages and so forth. I host a website for my company. If I had to reproduce all the pdf documents I put up in html code, there would be a much larger time-delay in getting them up there. I also want to make sure my clients reproduce them *exactly* as I have written, without some heavy-handed boss deciding it's dangerous to tell his employees (for example) that they should challenge management when ideas don't make sense for the customer. I want to be sure our message is the one that truly gets to whoever reads it with our byline on it!
I do agree, though, Anthony, that for some people downloading the Reader is difficult. It's not, but people who are not familiar with computers, or who have messed them up before, or who have read one too many "beward downloads" virus scares, they are concerned with how to do it. (To avoid this, I downloaded it for my dad.) Fortunately, once downloaded, it works fairly transparently, with no conversion or extra steps required.
Songbird
Songbird - 22 Jul 2005 17:31 GMT >>>Its unique value is that it's ubiquitous across web sites, you are going >>>to [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > *and they will always look the same* and won't have bits clipped off, > broken up pages and so forth. I host a website for my company. If I had to reproduce all the pdf documents I put up in html code, there would be a much larger time-delay in getting them up there. I also want to make sure my clients reproduce them *exactly* as I have written, without some heavy-handed boss deciding it's dangerous to tell his employees (for example) that they should challenge management when ideas don't make sense for the customer. I want to be sure our message is the one that truly gets to whoever reads it with our byline on it!
I do agree, though, Anthony, that for some people downloading the Reader is difficult. It's not, but people who are not familiar with computers, or who have messed them up before, or who have read one too many "beward downloads" virus scares, they are concerned with how to do it. (To avoid this, I downloaded it for my dad.) Fortunately, once downloaded, it works fairly transparently, with no conversion or extra steps required.
Songbird
Caz - 21 Jul 2005 14:51 GMT <snip>
> Just on a different topic, does anybody know if anybody from--working > for--Alzheimer's Assoc read this group? I was at a focus group session a couple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > AD sufferers as volunteers. The idea of that spread like wildfire and seemed to > outrage many. <snip> Hi Anthony
I work for Alzheimer's Australia here in Albany, WA. I'm not quite sure what you mean re volunteers -- do you mean assisting at the centres? If so, last year's Volunteer of the Year for Albany was an AD sufferer at our respite centre.
Caz
Anthony Shipley - 21 Jul 2005 15:29 GMT >I work for Alzheimer's Australia here in Albany, WA. I'm not quite sure what >you mean re volunteers -- do you mean assisting at the centres? If so, last >year's Volunteer of the Year for Albany was an AD sufferer at our respite >centre. Well, that's good to hear.
- Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.
Mod as a hooter!
Evelyn Ruut - 21 Jul 2005 15:32 GMT >>I work for Alzheimer's Australia here in Albany, WA. I'm not quite sure >>what [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well, that's good to hear. Anthony, there was one person who used to post here whose mom would only attend a daycare center as a "volunteer".... she had been a nurse for many years, and was so used to being helpful to others, it continued to be a compelling motivation well into her illness. The daycare center was happy to have her there, and she was kept safe as well.
 Signature Best Regards, Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')
Dennis P. Harris - 21 Jul 2005 07:59 GMT > Oh geez i know I shouldnt do this cause she aint in her right mind...but > she makes me so ANGRY and I AM NOT in my right mind either....I will > feel so good and call her and then she takes everything I say even when > I am trying to help her and TWISTS it. once again, the answer, boydette, is simple. just disconnect. don't take her phone calls, talk to her, or go visit. just take a looooong break and get yourself well.
of course you never do, which is why i really *do* get tired of your constant venting when you don't do the only thing that will stop the irritation and frustration, which is to simply disconnect for your own health.
it's not cruel, and it may even be kinder, to just stay out of contact for a month or two. she won't get upset, and neither will you.
Boydette - 23 Jul 2005 06:31 GMT YOu know what Dennis I think I am gonna do that very thing...recently I had my phone number changed and I am regretting giving it to her....and my sister has totally bailed...she and I had words and she is taking her anger at me out on mom....I would really love to say thats it I AM DONE....but I have always felt that would be selfish...I am sorry if I have irritated you it is not that I dont wish I could do that its just very hard....but I think you are rtight...if she is left to her own devices then help will have to come and NOT from me...THE END
My dad
I dont like idiots and I dont associate with them but the few I know are pretty nice guys
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