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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / August 2005

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Psychosis and anti-psychotic drugs and Alzheimer's patients

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Alan Meyer - 05 Jul 2005 04:38 GMT
Medscape has an audio presentation of a conference by two experts,
Drs. Ira Katz and George T. Grossberg on the topic of " Psychosis
in Alzheimer's Disease".  There's a lot of information about drugs
that are commonly used in Alzheimer's facilities.

See: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/507381

I believe that you have to sign up for a free Medscape membership
to view their material.  I haven't seen any particular downside to doing
that.  They'll want so send you some newsletters, which you might
find interesting.  But if not, they seem to honor unsubscribe requests.

It will be no surprise to anyone that anti-psychotic drugs are
overused in Alzheimer's care facilities.

   Alan
Mary_Gordon@tvo.org - 05 Jul 2005 11:01 GMT
What's your personal perspective/experience with this, Alan?

Mary G.
Alan Meyer - 26 Aug 2005 23:45 GMT
> What's your personal perspective/experience with this, Alan?
>
> Mary G.

Mary,

I hadn't been following this group closely and I missed this
question that you posted regarding a posting I made back
on July 4 about a Medscape article on psychosis and
anti-psychotic drugs in Alzheimer's patients.

My personal interest in Alzheimer's comes from close family
members who had or have the disease, and of course from
my own fears for the future.

My mother was diagnosed in her early 60's.  She lived to age
80, dying in an Alzheimer's care facility after refusing all food
for three weeks.

My Dad started to show symptoms of dementia around age 84.
He suffered considerable decline in the next 3 years and died
of a heart attack at age 87.

My mother-in-law, now aged 81, is currently living in an Alzheimer's
care facility.

Anti-psychotic drugs were used on my mother and my M-I-L.
In my mother's case, I don't know what else could have been
done.  When she was first put in the first AD facility, it was
against her will.  We took her out after 3 days and she lived
with my Dad for another 6 months, but it became completely
impossible to care for her and Dad committed her again,
again against her will.  She fought furiously, climbing a fence
around the place, refusing food, yelling at the staff, and so
on.  Dad moved her from place to place, trying to find one
that she would like, but she never liked any of the places,
although they were all places with good reputations.

Mom became manageable with Haldol.  We didn't like giving
it to her but didn't know what else to do.  Without it, she
fought everyone and was aggressively miserable.  With it
she was quieter and more passively miserable.  She was
an intelligent woman who had been disappointed with almost
every aspect of her life for many, many years and her
disappointment, depression and anger seem to have
been accentuated by Alzheimer's.

My M-I-L's case was very different.  She is a sweetheart who
never gives anybody a hard time.  But she doesn't really
understand where she's living and always wants to see her
husband and go home.  Her "agitation" consists of
constantly pestering the staff to call her husband and send
her home.

The AD facility doctor recommended what he called a minimal
dose of Zyprexa.  We tried it.  It made her sleep all the time.
She became unresponsive.  She couldn't keep her head up.
All she wanted to do was take naps.  She wasn't much
interested when family came to visit.

We insisted that the Zyprexa be taken away and, within a
couple of weeks she was back to "normal".

In her case, I believe that her "agitation" required more
staff time than when she just went to sleep, but it was
manageable with nothing more than personal attention
and reassurance.  We as a family attempt to provide
as much of that as we can, and we hope that the AD
facility (which charges $4,500 a month!) will do some
too.

I'm not complaining about the facility's treatment of her,
or of the experiment with Zyprexa.  But I am convinced
that the experiment was a failure and that the quality of
her life, such as it is, went down significantly with the
drug.

   Alan
Anthony Shipley - 27 Aug 2005 08:09 GMT
>She fought furiously, climbing a fence
>around the place, refusing food, yelling at the staff, and so
>on.  Dad moved her from place to place, trying to find one
>that she would like, but she never liked any of the places,
>although they were all places with good reputations.
Yep, us sufferers are a fiesty lot, aren't we :-)

>Mom became manageable with Haldol.  We didn't like giving
>it to her but didn't know what else to do.  Without it, she
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>disappointment, depression and anger seem to have
>been accentuated by Alzheimer's.
Even so, at 80, she had a pretty good lifespan despite A.D. (but not so good for
you). I suspect -- with nothing to support me but my ignorance-- that a lot of
the problem is that the suffererer ceases to have a life. No autonomy, no
discretion, loss of dignity, etc. I  would much prefer to have been run over by
a bus 10...20 years ago than be taken by A.D. at 50.

I'm also inclined to cease taking the A.D. drugs as I perceive they detract
significantly from my quality of life.... and I doubt they do anything for my
memory... or what's left of it.

>We insisted that the Zyprexa be taken away and, within a
>couple of weeks she was back to "normal".
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>    Alan

--
2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
Evelyn Ruut - 05 Jul 2005 12:40 GMT
> Medscape has an audio presentation of a conference by two experts,
> Drs. Ira Katz and George T. Grossberg on the topic of " Psychosis
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>    Alan

Alan,

It is a surprise to me, since the first thing that happened when my mother
in law was placed in a facility, was for them to discontinue all drugs in
order to establish a new "baseline" for their need.   They found that many
patients are often over-medicated at home (upon arrival at the facility)
thus they discontinued many drugs when they got there.

Drugs, though helpful for people who are experiencing delusions, also have
side effects.  Stop the drug and the side effects often go away.   In a
disease like Alzheimers, where the person continues to progressively get
worse over time, the need for certain drugs can diminish over time.   That
was why they wanted to establish a new baseline to start all over again.

Fortunately for us, we recognized that fact ourselves, and had already
diminished the use of antipsychotic drugs gradually over time, prior to her
admittance.   But earlier on, the drugs had been an absolute lifesaver for
her, when she was experiencing awful and upsetting delusions.   It is a
terrible mistake to speak about these drugs as though they were a "bad"
thing, when so many have found them to be helpful when used properly.

Signature

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Karen - 05 Jul 2005 18:30 GMT
Major agreement here!  Anti-psychotic drugs are what keeps my MIL from
trying to break windows to get out to "her car", from hearing her long dead
parents calling her and many other things much worse than drugs.

When there's no cure ahead, IMO, a civilized society at least should offer
whatever respite is available.

Karen

> > Medscape has an audio presentation of a conference by two experts,
> > Drs. Ira Katz and George T. Grossberg on the topic of " Psychosis
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> terrible mistake to speak about these drugs as though they were a "bad"
> thing, when so many have found them to be helpful when used properly.
 
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