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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / July 2005

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What experience re nutrients.

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Brian Fletcher - 30 Jun 2005 01:24 GMT
I've been catching up on Dr Harmon's postings.

Has anybody here noticed any effects by introducing various supplements, or
in fact identifyed the lack of particular nutrients in the history of
sufferers?

Thanks in advance

Brian
Tumbleweed - 30 Jun 2005 06:13 GMT
> I've been catching up on Dr Harmon's postings.

Well, there's your mistake.

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Dennis P. Harris - 30 Jun 2005 10:07 GMT
> I've been catching up on Dr Harmon's postings.

there's nothing to catch up on --- he's a crank and a troll.

most of us have him killfiled for good reason.
Brian Fletcher - 30 Jun 2005 12:17 GMT
Thanks guys. I didnt know, being new here. He looks convincing with all the
cross referencing etc..

Regardless, has anyone had such experiences/observations with nutritional
variations?

>> I've been catching up on Dr Harmon's postings.
>>
> there's nothing to catch up on --- he's a crank and a troll.
>
> most of us have him killfiled for good reason.
pitirish - 30 Jun 2005 12:38 GMT
> Thanks guys. I didnt know, being new here. He looks convincing with all
> the cross referencing etc..

All he knows, he learned from Christopher Lloyd. (Think "Back to the
Future.")

pitirish
Evelyn Ruut - 30 Jun 2005 13:42 GMT
> Thanks guys. I didnt know, being new here. He looks convincing with all
> the cross referencing etc..
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>> most of us have him killfiled for good reason.

Hi Brian,

(nice to see you again)

Harmon is a total troll.  Just block him like the rest of us have.  He just
clutters up the newsgroup with endless parrotted text.  He has no interest
in discussion.

Signature

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Brian Fletcher - 30 Jun 2005 14:29 GMT
Hi Evelyn

So we "will" go on meeting like this :-).

Can you recommend any links re nutrition or "wholistic" approaches?

Has there been much posted here on this subject? I'm sure there must have
been.

Its always better to hear "from the horses mouth"....

Thanks

Brian
>> Thanks guys. I didnt know, being new here. He looks convincing with all
>> the cross referencing etc..
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> just clutters up the newsgroup with endless parrotted text.  He has no
> interest in discussion.
Evelyn Ruut - 30 Jun 2005 15:13 GMT
> Hi Evelyn
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Brian

LOL! and so we do continue meeting :-)

Hi Brian,

We found that a daily multivitamin was helpful, but a lot of any additional
customizing of a vitamin regimen should depend on the particular individual
and their particular needs.

In my mother in law's case, she needed a calcium/magnesium supplement due to
thinning bones.   I do know that one fellow here had his wife on a
customized regimen of certain vitamins, including extra vitamin E and C, and
especially the E has been reported as helpful.   I would give a fish oil
tablet daily too, simply because it good for cholesterol health, and
certainly can't hurt.   You may also take note that fish oil may help with
alzheimers as well due to its effect on the plaques that appear in the brain
being made up of a cholesterol like substance, from what I have read.

So you may need to work with your loved one's particular needs that way, and
customize supplementation.

Some help has been found with anti-inflammatory over the counter stuff, but
one must be careful with that.   A baby aspirin daily would help prevent
cardiovascular stuff and has a mild anti inflammatory effect as well as some
small degree of help for alzheimers.   Gingko Biloba has been shown to help
memory, but one absolutely must be careful with it, since it has a blood
thinning effect, and many elderly people are on blood thinners or aspirin
therapy, and it shouldn't be combined.   So be careful if you are going to
use it, don't combine the two.   Decide which one you want to use, but not
both, and certainly ask your doctor or pharmacist, with regards to combining
with prescription meds.

We gave my mother in law a Tylenol PM every night which helped her fall
asleep and there has been some research that said it was helpful otherwise
also for alzheimers disease.

I would strongly advise that you take advantage of the wonderful
prescription medications that are available today for alzheimers.   Reminyl,
Namenda, Aricept, Excelon..... all help with memory because they actually
work with the faulty brain chemistry.   There was a VAST and noticeable
difference for the worse, when we stopped Ida's Aricept and tried her on
Excelon instead.  Namenda is the newest, and I understand it works best
combined with Aricept.  Reminyl, is also known as Galantamine, is available
without a prescription in health food stores.   Some can be taken together,
some cannot.  But they do work and they are in some instances VERY
effective, and depending on the type of dementia some have said they didn't
work at all.  YMMV, as always.

Also it is important to know that there is additional pharmaceutical help
available for delusions and agitation.   My mother in law was really and
truly suffering from her delusions and we couldn't calm her down.   The
doctor prescribed Risperdol, which seemingly made her almost "normal" in her
every day life.   The trick is to be a very keen observer and know your
patient very well.

My mother in law needed two pills a day but later when her abilities began
to wane even more, we cut her to one a day (of the Risperdol).   Ultimately
as her illness progressed even more, it was removed altogether.  It had a
time when it was really needed, but that time passed and it was no longer
helpful, but actually became a detriment, since it had some effect on
continence issues.

Never forget, all these various meds have side effects.  Some adjust over
time, and some get worse.  In my mother in law's case, she started out with
upset stomach from the Aricept, but later was able to tolerate it very well,
and even to increase the dose when needed without any problem.

The Risperdol has one side effect of increasing ones blood sugar, if not to
actually bring on diabetes.   We felt it was worth the side effects, but it
is always an individual thing, and if you cannot adjust the persons diet to
limit the amount of carbohydrates and sugar while on this medication, it
might not be.

There are no miracles in the vitamin and herb areas, and believe me I
researched.   The prescription meds were most helpful.   Maintaining good
healthy practices, routines, food, and such, was the best way.

Oh, and lest I forget.... TIME is very important.   I always gave her
medications after dinner.   It minimized the gastric symptoms that way.

One more thing; and that is that recognizing that this is an organic brain
disease that is ultimately terminal, is very important.   Unnecessary
testing, invasive procedures and such may create more problems than they are
worth, with your loved one, especially anything involving anesthesia.   A
great many have reported their loved ones never regained the level of
function they were at, after being anesthetized for anything.

Signature

Best Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

Anthony Shipley - 01 Jul 2005 02:47 GMT
<I's a'bin snippin' soemwhat>
>Reminyl, is also known as Galantamine, is available
>without a prescription in health food stores.   Some can be taken together,
>some cannot.  But they do work and they are in some instances VERY
>effective, and depending on the type of dementia some have said they didn't
>work at all.  YMMV, as always.
What does Reminyl cost over there (say 28 tabs of 8mg)?

>Oh, and lest I forget.... TIME is very important.   I always gave her
>medications after dinner.   It minimized the gastric symptoms that way.
Yes, yes!

Have I mentioned that taking my Reminyl after dinner, i.e. prior to sleeping,
has pretty much got rid of the nausea.

>One more thing; and that is that recognizing that this is an organic brain
>disease that is ultimately terminal, is very important.   Unnecessary
>testing, invasive procedures and such may create more problems than they are
>worth, with your loved one, especially anything involving anesthesia.   A
>great many have reported their loved ones never regained the level of
>function they were at, after being anesthetized for anything.

Even for the low doses of dental work? Can you cite any study relating
anesthesia and dementia?

-
Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.

Mod as a hooter!
Anthony Shipley - 01 Jul 2005 02:51 GMT
>Even for the low doses of dental work? Can you cite any study relating
>anesthesia and dementia?

Oops! Sorry about that. I'd forgotten about the recent discussion of
anesthesia--bad boy!!

-
Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.

Mod as a hooter!
M. John Matlaw - 03 Jul 2005 10:48 GMT
Can you tell me, if you know, which medications might be better taken
after eating.  My mother talks less and less and would probably not
recognize the connection if there was one, but she seems to not feel
well from time to time (that's as much detail as she's able to give) and
I'm wondering if there may be some connection.  She's taking Namenda
twice a day and Aricept once a day.  (And Quinapril for high blood
pressure once a day.)  I'm up rather late so I generally make us
something to eat after I wake up around noon.  I start her off with a
bowl of cereal while I prepare the other stuff after which I give her
the three pills.  The second Namenda pill comes late at night without
food - though she might have some of the supper that she hasn't finished
 from earlier in the evening.

About a year ago when she'd occasionally say she felt sick, though it
seemed to go away by itself after an hour or two. After this happened a
couple of times I took her to the hospital.  Best they could tell she
had non-bleeding diverticulitis and after that I changed her diet and
the not feeling well got less frequent.  At some point, what with
continued digestive problems (really loose stool) she got an upper GI
and they said she had gastric folds.  She's also down to about 3 teeth
so it's pretty much ground meat and soft foods.  Still, there are
occasional problems, these days it's intermittant really hard stood.
The doctor recommended colace so I give her one of those occasonally.
Not sure, but I think it might function as a mild laxitive.  I also have
a feeling I'm not supposed to give her it on a regular basis.  At any
rate, it's not a constant problem.

I know one can only expect incontinance to increase - it's become a lot
more frequent in the past couple of months - but figuring out what to
feed her is a bit of puzzle.  Prune juice or milk of magnesia causes
near instant results so I figure that's too much and have stopped using
them.  The gastro guy says bms 2 or 3 times a week is ok, nothing to
worry about.  I'm giving a high fiber cereal and fresh squeezed oj and a
half a grapefruit so I figure she should be getting enough fiber.

I guess one of the bad things about this disease is that they can't help
you to help them.

John

> Oh, and lest I forget.... TIME is very important.   I always gave her
> medications after dinner.   It minimized the gastric symptoms that way.
Tumbleweed - 03 Jul 2005 12:04 GMT
> Can you tell me, if you know, which medications might be better taken
> after eating.  My mother talks less and less and would probably not
> recognize the connection if there was one, but she seems to not feel well
> from time to time (that's as much detail as she's able to give) and I'm
> wondering if there may be some connection.  She's taking Namenda twice a
> day and Aricept once a day. <snip>

a known (and oft reported here) side effect of aricept is nausea. Anthony S
who is a sufferer takes it at night (IIRC) so hes asleep and doesnt notice
it, you could search for his messages here, also ISTR my father taking it
before food but again search here for what others do. Finally, quite a few
have reported nausea at 10Mg but none at 5mg (thats the usual starting
dose), so cutting the usual 10mg tablet in half and spreading the dose over
the day might help.

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Anthony Shipley - 04 Jul 2005 05:51 GMT
>a known (and oft reported here) side effect of aricept is nausea. Anthony S
>who is a sufferer takes it at night (IIRC) so hes asleep and doesnt notice
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>dose), so cutting the usual 10mg tablet in half and spreading the dose over
>the day might help.

Reading this now, at 1pm, it doesn't give me much satisfaction telling you that
I am--right now--feeling nauseous. Also, I've not been on Aricept for about 2
months and am taking 60mg Reminyl.

Halving the tablet, might well be worth it. Any experience of that, anybody?

-
Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.

Mod as a hooter!
livefree@ordie.com - 04 Jul 2005 13:28 GMT
>Reading this now, at 1pm, it doesn't give me much satisfaction telling you that
>I am--right now--feeling nauseous. Also, I've not been on Aricept for about 2
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Mod as a hooter!

My Mom takes 8mg twice a day with meals.  Ihope you meant 16 mg
instead of 60.  Adequate fluid seems important.

"REMINYL® (galantamine HBr) is available in 4-mg, 8-mg and 12-mg
tablets and oral solution (4 mg/mL). REMINYL should be taken twice a
day, preferably with the morning and evening meal. Patients and
caregivers should be advised to ensure adequate fluid intake during
treatment. It is recommended that treatment start with 4 mg (white
tablets) twice a day for at least 4 weeks and then continue with 8 mg
(pink tablets) twice a day for at least 4 weeks.

After 4 weeks of treatment with 8 mg twice a day, your doctor will
evaluate the effects of REMINYL and decide if treatment should
continue with 8 mg twice a day or be increased to 12 mg (orange-brown
tablets) twice a day. "

http://www.us.reminyl.com/html/rem/consumer/pd_galantamine.xml;jsessionid=N14GOE
DNDPSXGCQPCCFTC0YKB2IIQNSC?article=index_galantamine.jspf


or http://www.us.reminyl.com/

The last one says Reminyl is now Razadyne, and the extended release
form of it can be taken once a day.  I don't know if they changed
anything to make it less nauseating to some.
http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/drugindex/rxsearch.asp?search=razadyne&expand=
Razadyne+ER&trx=1Z5007


Bill
bill - 04 Jul 2005 13:31 GMT
I forgot I had that email listed, this may be more appropriate,
although on July 4th, live free or die seems good.

"Live free or die" is on license plates in Rhode Island I believe,
manufactured by prisoners :)

Bill
Adelle - 03 Jul 2005 18:45 GMT
John,

Others have spoken about Aricept and meals, so I'll leave that one to them.

Please check with the pharmacist or someone at doc's office about mixing
grapefruit and medication. Grapefruit has been known to increase the amount
of medication getting into the bloodstream. I know this is true for some
cardiac meds; not sure about blood pressure ones.

Adelle

> Can you tell me, if you know, which medications might be better taken
> after eating.  My mother talks less and less and would probably not
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> Oh, and lest I forget.... TIME is very important.   I always gave her
>> medications after dinner.   It minimized the gastric symptoms that way.
Karen - 03 Jul 2005 19:33 GMT
It's true on blood pressure medication, some anti-depressants, IIRC some
cholesterol lowering drugs.  Definitely something to watch for.

-------------------
Grapefruit Interactions Are Confusing:
http://www.healthcentral.com/peoplespharmacy/408/60825.html
------------------

Karen

> John,
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> >> Oh, and lest I forget.... TIME is very important.   I always gave her
> >> medications after dinner.   It minimized the gastric symptoms that way.
Songbird - 03 Jul 2005 21:44 GMT
> John,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Adelle

Some BP meds as well -- my hubby is definitely off grapefruit. And I don't
eat it because it tears up my stomach.

Songbird
Anthony Shipley - 04 Jul 2005 06:03 GMT
>Please check with the pharmacist or someone at doc's office about mixing
>grapefruit and medication. Grapefruit has been known to increase the amount
>of medication getting into the bloodstream. I know this is true for some
>cardiac meds; not sure about blood pressure ones.

May I hazard the general suggestion that such "advice"  be qualified by a url or
a reputable source?

-
Mind control is being able to make all the voices in your head take turns.

Mod as a hooter!
Adelle - 04 Jul 2005 06:17 GMT
>>Please check with the pharmacist or someone at doc's office about mixing
>>grapefruit and medication. Grapefruit has been known to increase the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> url or
> a reputable source?

No you may not.

It was covered in the general media at least two years - TV news, medical
section of papers, etc. Have more things to do with my time than start
looking for a url when it doesn't change the advice - John needs to check
with a pharmacist and/or doctor about interactions.

Unless you are trying to tell us you no longer have the ability to frame a
search, do the search yourself if you really want a url. Each person does
what they can and what they choose. Don't expect someone else to do the work
for you. Especially while you can still do it for yourself. One day it will
be beyond your abilities. Enjoy the benefits of being capable while you
still can.

Adelle
Tumbleweed - 04 Jul 2005 07:42 GMT
>>Please check with the pharmacist or someone at doc's office about mixing
>>grapefruit and medication. Grapefruit has been known to increase the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> url or
> a reputable source?

I think that would be "the pharmacist or someone at doc's office " :-)

Signature

Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Gwen Love - 04 Jul 2005 23:23 GMT
That's what she said!
Gwen

> >>Please check with the pharmacist or someone at doc's office about mixing
> >>grapefruit and medication. Grapefruit has been known to increase the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> I think that would be "the pharmacist or someone at doc's office " :-)
Songbird - 05 Jul 2005 19:58 GMT
> John,
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Adelle

Some BP meds as well -- my hubby is definitely off grapefruit. And I don't
eat it because it tears up my stomach.

Songbird
Dennis P. Harris - 01 Jul 2005 05:38 GMT
> Can you recommend any links re nutrition or "wholistic" approaches?
>
> Has there been much posted here on this subject? I'm sure there must have
> been.

groups.google.com to search the archives.
Brian Fletcher - 02 Jul 2005 01:52 GMT
Thanks. Dennis.....

>> Can you recommend any links re nutrition or "wholistic" approaches?
>>
>> Has there been much posted here on this subject? I'm sure there must have
>> been.
>
> groups.google.com to search the archives.
 
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