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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Alzheimer's / May 2005Reality check for dad?
Here we go again ... Mom is slipping. I see it in her not remembering what she has done 10 minutes before, being very uncomfortable following a conversation in a social setting (after-church refreshments), even having trouble choosing from a restaurant menu. She is also becoming more feeble physically and grateful for someone to take her arm up and down steps, help with simple tasks like filling a paper plate at a church supper, carrying her drink so she can have two hands on a plate. She fails to recall recent conversations and can't track what day it is reliably. She is relatively cheerful and calm, with periodic spells of tears of frustration. The problem is my dad. He will quickly tell you she is slipping fast. Even says she might need AL soon, although she can still bathe, dress, toilet and feed herself. She needs help preparing meals and tracking her meds (she's diabetic, hypertensive, etc., etc.) Moreover, he totally ignores the little ways in which he could help her. Today we went out for Mother's Day brunch -- he was walking 30 feet in front of her in a crowded area. "Well, she needs to keep up." It never occurs to him to help her up or down stairs or into the car; when she has trouble with the seat belt he just sighs and makes sarcastic comments. He has now taken a part-time job as a minister (against my advice to him and to the person in the church who arranged to hire him), which means he leaves her alone for three to four hours at a time. He got a cell phone and I pre-programmed the number into the phone at home since she still remembers how to do that and could call him for help --except he forgets to charge, take, or turn on the cell phone. Today he was talking about taking her on a cruise to celebrate their 50th anniversary -- in 2008!! (My hubby, bless him, chirped in with "Why wait? I bet you could get a good deal on a cruise next fall or winter!" To which Dad replied, "I just took this job, I can't ask for time off" -- though they have told him whenever he needs time off to ask for it, that Mom's needs come first. Everybody else seems to understand what is going on but him.) My take on the situation is that he is dodging reality. His reaction to stress in the past has been to turn to alcohol and start spending money. He is spending money again and using the new job as an excuse to get away. (And he may have returned to the alcohol, against doctor's orders -- early cirrhosis. I have gotten some evening phone calls that sounded suspiciously like the ones I used to get when he was drinking. He denies it, and Mom is no longer a reliable snitch, so I guess i will have to check out the kitchen cabinets under some pretext.) What do I do? Let him continue to ignore her needs? Tell him he needs to wake up and smell the coffee? The hypocrisy is hard for me to handle -- he says how much he loves her and I believe he thinks he does, but he cannot act toward her in a loving manner -- and what is going to happen down the road when she is incontinent, etc.? I feel I must confront him somehow -- suggestions on how I do that? My brother lives in California and can't be counted on to help with anything. Songbird > What do I do? Let him continue to ignore her needs? Tell him he needs to > wake up and smell the coffee? The hypocrisy is hard for me to handle -- he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > suggestions on how I do that? My brother lives in California and can't be > counted on to help with anything. you need an ally. perhaps someone from a home care agency? or someone from the local alzheimers' association chapter? you might try calling them to see about getting your father to a caregiver's support group session, or you, if he won't go. they may be able to suggest social workers or other folks who could assist you in educating your father. he's in denial, and will probably have to weather a crisis before he acknowledges that he needs assistance for your mother. it sounds like he may not be willing to be a caregiver, and if that's so, then he probably shouldn't be one. you should find a day care program at the very least, and perhaps an assisted living facility where she could be placed when the time comes. >> What do I do? Let him continue to ignore her needs? Tell him he needs to >> wake up and smell the coffee? The hypocrisy is hard for me to handle -- [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > day care program at the very least, and perhaps an assisted > living facility where she could be placed when the time comes. Songbird, Dennis is right. Maybe you could speak to the minister that hired your father and enlist his help, and also maybe that of your doctor. Have you investigated adult daycare centers and such in your area? It may be time to look into it. You were very strong and took charge when you realized they needed to sell their house and move, and that the writing was on the wall with your mom's condition, and I think maybe it is nearing time to put your foot down again. You need to get some people on board with you and have some sort of a conference about your mother. Your father is not only in denial, he is being outright cruel (walking ahead and leaving her behind etc. etc.) He may not be suited to care for her. Some people just aren't cut out for it, and fortunately there ARE other options. The down side is that you have to get past him to employ them. He needs a serious talking to, and a serious update on the realities of this illness. His "love" for her may be based on what he himself needs, not on what she needs. Maybe you should just wait for some situation to arise where it becomes really obvious to him that she is impaired and going to be even more so as time goes on. He may just not want to admit that this is a reality, and thinks she can somehow "shake herself" out of it, or that he could maybe badger her out of it. But it is my belief that some people never "get it". My uncle by marriage died last year of alzheimers and his wife, my aunt, never did get it. She corrected him endlessly. Even when he couldn't walk anymore and kept falling down, she did not want to place him in a nursing home. She called the police a few times when she could not get him up again, and finally they took him to a hospital and the hospital told her that she could no longer care for him at home and THEY placed him in a nursing home where he eventually died. There was a guy who came to this newsgroup once in the past and he was asking where he could get flash cards like they use for school children to "train" his wife out of having alzheimers. Can you imagine it? Denial runs deep. That guy wouldn't listen to any of us. I thought to myself that time would tell the tale and he would eventually have to get it, but in the meantime that poor woman had to live through her awful, terminal, organic brain illness with a complete boorish idiot for a husband and caregiver. At any rate, you have my best wishes in dealing with this. I got so frustrated at your dad just reading your post. Maybe you just ought to print the replies and give them to him.  SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') Songbird, I understand your dilema. It is so hard to deal with both of them. One has a double problem. My parents are 87 and 88, both tired, short tempered and both have their health problems with lots of different pills to take and daily life chores to deal with. My dad is not in denial though. Yesterday for the first time he asked his daughters for help for him and mom. Something he had never done before. Yesterday he did not want to come to Mother's day lunch reunion, he wanted a break all by himself. It is hard for everybody. I think the idea of asking the minister your dad is working with to help is good. I think he should know what is happening to your mother. Try to have patience. Sorry to say this. I would try not to get angry at your father. He is trying to save himself the pain. I think this is natural. Maybe his psyche cannot take so much just now. Hopefully with your coaching he will soon have to realize he cannot run away from your mom's problems. Also i think it is good for your mom to have peace around her. She is already confused she does not need to feel she is the cause of the war. Post here for ideas and support, because it is not easy. Love. > I think the idea of asking the minister your dad is working with to > help is good. I think he should know what is happening to your mother. Unfortunately, there is no other minister. Dad is it. He was hired by a group of laypeople. In the Episcopal Church, we are very hierarchical -- clergy have great authority over the unordained. And they sometimes -- especially the ones of my Dad's generation -- develop the same "father knows best" hubris that one sometimes sees in surgeons. (which is a good thing, sometimes -- I don't want a heart surgeon who's going "hmmm.... don't know if I can make this work...") I would have to go over his head to the bishop, which would a) probably cause Dad to never speak to me again and I am trying to have us work together on this and b) probably not do anything anyway because I have seen what this bishop has *not* done in similar cases. I'm caught between two schools of thinking -- one is for a hard reality check but on the other hand, I am concerned that if I "scare" him too much, he will wash his hands of her and say "you take care of her." I don't mind doing that if there is no other alternative, but I do have a business to run and my own family, not to mention that she would be devastated. The sun rises and sets in him in her mind, and especially now. He's had a couple of minor health scares and the mere mention that something might happen to him brings her to tears. Songbird >> I think the idea of asking the minister your dad is working with to >> help is good. I think he should know what is happening to your mother. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Songbird You really are between a rock and a hard place, Songbird. Based on what you said, I think that maybe the only thing to do is to wait it out. As time goes on the issues will become clearer, and maybe he will realize she is truly in need of more care. My dad never realized how serious my mothers heart condition was until she died. He still almost regards it as a "betrayal" of some kind that she did die so "suddenly" ......never mind that she was on her second pacemaker, had many cardioversion (sp?) shocks and had quadruple bypass at the age of 80 two years before. To him it was "unexpected" and "sudden." To this day he still doesn't get it. I know how it is.....you love them both, but when a relationship is long standing of so many years, it is hard to tell either of them anything, that they haven't come to the same conclusion themselves. There is hope though, since they listened to you so well as to move, and allowed you to orchestrate it. Maybe if you wait a bit it will become more evident and he will take your suggestions. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') > My dad never realized how serious my mothers heart condition was until she > died. He still almost regards it as a "betrayal" of some kind that she [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Maybe if you wait a bit it will become more evident and he will take your > suggestions. Thanks, Evelyn, for reminding me I once was and can be strong again. I think this is a strong case of denial. I had to call an ambulance for her last year -- we thought she having a heart attack, but it turned out to be a medication foul-up on the doctor's part (new doctor now!!) Dad was in tears and couldn't even be in room with her and paramedic. I'm hoping to get some time alone with him on Wednesday to confront this and other issues. If that doesn't work, brother coming to visit from California in June -- he hasn't seen Mom in a year and perhaps his feedback will get Dad's attention. Songbird >> My dad never realized how serious my mothers heart condition was until >> she died. He still almost regards it as a "betrayal" of some kind that [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Songbird Hi Songbird, You can do it, I know. Be sure your brother is well prepped before he gets here. Even still expect that he might not back you as well as you might wish. I am sad to say that I have heard so many times here, where families find it all too easy to let one person be the 'tough guy' and everyone else waffles and sidesteps and refuses to take the responsibility for the hard decisions. That goes double for people who live far away. Some folks here have suggested something very effective, and I think you might employ this too. KEEP A LOG BOOK of incidents and circumstances. Write dates and times and a good description of the situation each time something comes up. Your dad loves your mom, and he just isn't seeing the situation clearly. Writing a log book and bringing it up that way may help. To start with, go back in time and remember some of the incidents you have recounted here, like especially when he walked off and left her. Make sure he understands that people with Alzheimers walk slower and slower and if they try to hurry up, they fall and get hurt. MAKE A LIST of all the areas she seems to need help with, in your observation. I think that your father will work better with it clearly laid out for him. He is just so used to her being there and being able to do things for herself that he isn't even seeing the deficits. You have a clearer view. You may be right in that he just can't handle the stress. It is the biggest cause of denial out there. SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') If your bro is like mine who lives very far away, he feels a little guilty for not helping as much as others. You dont have to wait for June. Make sure he knows how you are feeling. Dont overwhelm him, dont be too emotional, just the facts of your feelings. Men dont like women crying etc you know. Your brother can ask your father on the phone: -and dad how is mom doing? -She's great no problem -But Songbird tells me mom is slipping... Once your dad starts getting everybody telliing him what they are seeing then... Any helpful active person(s) from his congregation or neighbor(s) that you can invite home so that he or she is also your witness? The more the merrier for your purpose. Anyway, one day at a time. Hope your mom is happy today and you too. > I'm hoping to get some > time alone with him on Wednesday to confront this and other issues. If that > doesn't work, brother coming to visit from California in June -- he hasn't > seen Mom in a year and perhaps his feedback will get Dad's attention. you should probably give him a heads-up before he arrives, so that he won't also be in denial from the shock of the change that has happened in a year. Re: Reality check for dad? Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Mon, May 9, 2005, 3:58pm (CDT+1) From: song2871@yahoo.com (Songbird) "Evelyn Ruut" <mama-lionsox@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message news:63Kfe.18592$n93.12594@twister.nyc.rr.com... My dad never realized how serious my mothers heart condition was until she died. He still almost regards it as a "betrayal" of some kind that she did die so "suddenly" ......never mind that she was on her second pacemaker, had many cardioversion (sp?) shocks and had quadruple bypass at the age of 80 two years before. To him it was "unexpected" and "sudden." To this day he still doesn't get it. I know how it is.....you love them both, but when a relationship is long standing of so many years, it is hard to tell either of them anything, that they haven't come to the same conclusion themselves. There is hope though, since they listened to you so well as to move, and allowed you to orchestrate it. Maybe if you wait a bit it will become more evident and he will take your suggestions. -- Songbird: Thanks, Evelyn, for reminding me I once was and can be strong again. I think this is a strong case of denial. I had to call an ambulance for her last year -- we thought she having a heart attack, but it turned out to be a medication foul-up on the doctor's part (new doctor now!!) Dad was in tears and couldn't even be in room with her and paramedic. I'm hoping to get some time alone with him on Wednesday to confront this and other issues. If that doesn't work, brother coming to visit from California in June -- he hasn't seen Mom in a year and perhaps his feedback will get Dad's attention. Songbird Ronny: Ah man! Now I'm beginning to think your Dad is just like one of my older sisters, who goes into deep denial about anyone being sick,etc,that she loves. Songbird,the more I read in this thead,the madder I get. Sorry,as part of that is my not feeling so great today myself. But after reading a bit and certainly your first two posts in this thread;first I would say that your Dad needs his butt kicked and secondly,as a minister,he needs to remember that charity/love begins at home. And he needs to remember that it does no good to hide from or deny problems,nor to feel sorry for himself,so if he's in denial or having a pity party for himself then he needs to get over that! He's got a job to do at home and that's it period. Sorry for this post;but I did sort of need to tell someone what for tonight :-) and your Dad's behaviour provided that opportunity.(ha) > Unfortunately, there is no other minister. Dad is it. He was hired by a > group of laypeople. In the Episcopal Church, we are very hierarchical -- > clergy have great authority over the unordained. Then talk to his BISHOP, who certainly has authority over him (and who could even order him to take time off). The Episcopal church still has bishops, don't they? Dennis P. Harris <NO_SPAM_TO_dpharris@gci.net> is alleged to have said: > Then talk to his BISHOP, who certainly has authority over him > (and who could even order him to take time off). The Episcopal > church still has bishops, don't they? Yup. Gay ones, even (well, one). Remember the recent brouhaha? I don't know what kind of authority their bishops have, however. SignatureJo Ann Malina, make spamthis best to find my address Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. -- Nietzsche > I'm caught between two schools of thinking -- one is for a hard reality > check but on the other hand, I am concerned that if I "scare" him too much, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > minor health scares and the mere mention that something might happen to him > brings her to tears. That being the case, maybe it's time to talk to him about placing her if he is so damn egocentric that he won't exercise Christian compassion to take care of her. If he's concerned about his own salvation, you might mention Matthew 25:31-46: "41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Songbird's dad sounds a bit like mine. My father was very much the traditional 1950's guy. He was out in the big world, and the little woman was in charge of the home front, looking after all the details of life. My dad just didn't have to think about the infrastructure and organization of the every day, since my mom did all that stuff like magic - and of course, at the office, he had a secretary who did the equivalent for him at work. He did almost nothing for himself on the domestic side of life, other than mow the lawn. When my mother got sick (cancer in her 40's), he really couldn't deal with it. He was furiously angry at the universe, since in his head, he really shouldn't have to think about laundry or calling the fridge repair man, or who has a dental appointment, or how long to cook a roast, or when to vaccum the rug. It terrified him and overwhelmed him....and he really resented it. His somewhat irrational mindset really was that he shouldn't HAVE to be bothered with that stuff - someone wasn't doing their job, dammit! If your father was anything like that (and he is the same generation as my dad), his expectation is that your mother should take care of him and the household, and adjusting to the change when she can't do it any more is HUGE. Evelyn and Dennis are right - some men really aren't cut out to be caregivers, and I think your father is telling you that loud and clear as he retreats in to work so he doesn't have to think about it. He'd better take that cruise though - in three years, IF she is still alive (and statistically, she may not be), she is not likely to be even taken out for a nice dinner. Mary G. > Songbird's dad sounds a bit like mine. My father was very much the > traditional 1950's guy. He was out in the big world, and the little [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Mary G. Thanks, Mary G. That helps me realize it's not just selfishness on his part, it's also the cultural expectations he was raised with. What fries me is he has been good at picking up the housekeeping, cooking and cleaning, even though it means a lot of Lean Cuisine dinners (with his dietitian's blessing, actually.) It's not the home care, it's the Mom care, which points even more strongly to denial. Nati had a good point about getting other people to comment on her condition; the problem is that he doesn't deny that she has a problem, he just doesn't see what HE should be doing about it. Oh well. Guess I better start looking into day programs -- she's not to the point where that would be appropriate yet, but if he's having trouble coping NOW, I need to be prepared down the road for that and AL. I'm moving in 10 days, just 20 minutes away, 25 minute-drive to them, and there's an AL center practically across the street run by an old friend. Sounds like I'll be the one checking on her there, so I better look into it. Thanks for all your support. I'm going to see if I can get him alone for a conversation tomorrow morning. On Wednesdays they go to the church office and Mom helps the secretary with folding bulletins, stuffing envelopes, putting away office supplies, or entertaining the secretary's two pre-schoolers if her child care fell through. (They adore her!) That means she will be safely occupied while I talk to him. Not looking forward to it, but it must be done. Putting the dog to sleep Saturday, and now this. Being a grown-up sucks!! <G> Songbird >> Songbird's dad sounds a bit like mine. My father was very much the >> traditional 1950's guy. He was out in the big world, and the little [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Songbird It sure does, sometimes. I always say life isn't for sissies..... I have to say that I admire your approach, which is organized, direct, and clear. You are definitely a person who gets things done. A realist. I admire that quality which is in short supply in this world, where it is most needed! SignatureBest Regards, Evelyn (to reply to me personally, remove 'sox') <snip> > Thanks for all your support. I'm going to see if I can get him alone for a > conversation tomorrow morning. On Wednesdays they go to the church office [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Songbird There was a UK comedian, very well known and liked (now dead) who admitted in his autobiography that the main reason he threw himself into his work and thus was away so much was because he couldnt cope with his son, who was born mentally disabled, so his response was to run away from the problem and let his wife handle it. He was well aware of what he was doing. From what you describe, it may well be that your father *does* get it, but cant or doesnt want to cope with it. Which puts you in a hard place. I agree with your approach, good luck. SignatureTumbleweed email replies not necessary but to contact use; tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com Songbird: (snip) Being a grown-up sucks!! <G> Songbird Ronny: Sometimes it surely does! LoL Re: Reality check for dad? Group: alt.support.alzheimers Date: Tue, May 10, 2005, 6:05am (CDT-2) From: Mary_Gordon@tvo.org Songbird's dad sounds a bit like mine. My father was very much the traditional 1950's guy. He was out in the big world, and the little woman was in charge of the home front, looking after all the details of life. My dad just didn't have to think about the infrastructure and organization of the every day, since my mom did all that stuff like magic - and of course, at the office, he had a secretary who did the equivalent for him at work. He did almost nothing for himself on the domestic side of life, other than mow the lawn. When my mother got sick (cancer in her 40's), he really couldn't deal with it. He was furiously angry at the universe, since in his head, he really shouldn't have to think about laundry or calling the fridge repair man, or who has a dental appointment, or how long to cook a roast, or when to vaccum the rug. It terrified him and overwhelmed him....and he really resented it. His somewhat irrational mindset really was that he shouldn't HAVE to be bothered with that stuff - someone wasn't doing their job, dammit! If your father was anything like that (and he is the same generation as my dad), his expectation is that your mother should take care of him and the household, and adjusting to the change when she can't do it any more is HUGE. Evelyn and Dennis are right - some men really aren't cut out to be caregivers, and I think your father is telling you that loud and clear as he retreats in to work so he doesn't have to think about it. He'd better take that cruise though - in three years, IF she is still alive (and statistically, she may not be), she is not likely to be even taken out for a nice dinner. Mary G. Ronny: Just thinking that my Dad was 51yo when I was born. I was the last of 7 children and then my Mom went to work when I started school at 6 years old. So I grew up being used to seeing my Dad cook and clean up around the house too. He and Mom both did that. But when she came in from work early in the morning,she would sometimes say she would cook her own breakfast and Dad would tell her no,she'd been working so he would cook breakfast for her. And onetime,after they were married, my two oldest sisters came to visit and were in the kitchen and going to help Dad cook dinner. He finally just told them to get out of his way and out of his kitchen!LoL Well,he knew what he planned to do and he didn't like anyone bothering him/talking to him when he was doing it. LoL And my Mom and Dad both grew up on farms and many times that meant the females in the family or at least some of them,worked out in the fields with the males and no one thought a thing about that,as that was just something that had to be if the family was to be fed,clothed and housed. I don't know. I'm just glad I grew up and thought nothing about a male cooking, either just for himself or for others as well. And in my family I never saw any strict lines that said a male does this and not that and a female does this;but not that. Whoever just did what ever needed doing and no thought to was this a job for a male or a female? It was more,if a job needed doing and you could do it,then get on with doing it! LoL I think the one thing you need to remember is how difficult it must be for what your Father is experiencing at the moment. He is watching as the woman he fell in love with fades right before his very eyes. The love between a mother and child is very different to the love between a husband and wife. A mother just loves her son/daughter and they just love her back. Its unconditional, complete and reliable. She's your Mum and you just love her and thats the way it is. Your father fell in love with your Mum. Everything your Mum is, that is what your father loves. Her smile, her laugh, her cooking - he loves it all. And now he has to watch helplessly as she fades away and the woman he fell in love with disappears. Thats a tough thing to go through. I would say deep down your Father understands what is going on. He knows that eventually he'll have to change his lifestyle to revolve around the care of his wife. It sounds to me that right now he's trying to "make hay while the sun shines" as they say - get out and do the things he wants to while he has the chance, before the circumstances really change. Sure you have to make sure you monitor the situation, and once it becomes clear that the situation needs to change, make sure it does. But for the moment I would suggest honest, reasonable and compassionate conversations with your Father as the coming months progress, with you not judging, hinting or telling him what to do or how he should be treating your Mum. Just as it is painful for you to watch your Mothers decline, his pain that he experiences is just as painful, in many different ways to what you can imagine. Be there for him and remember that everyone suffers from the effects of alzheimers. Hope that helps. Steve |
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